Flowers and open arms....

[Stabby]

Article (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1082499013738&call_pageid=968332188854&col=968350060724)

U.S. Hated `Like Never Before,' Mubarak Says
Cites Iraq invasion, support for Israel, White House plays down criticism
Toronto Star, 21 April 2004
EXCERPT: Arabs in the Middle East hate the United States more than ever following the invasion of Iraq and Israel's assassination of two Hamas leaders, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in comments published yesterday. Mubarak, who visited the United States last week, told French newspaper Le Monde that Washington's actions had caused despair, frustration and a sense of injustice in the Arab world. This could threaten U.S. and Israeli interests globally, he said. "Today there is hatred of the Americans like never before in the region," he said. He blamed the hostility partly on U.S. support for Israel, which assassinated Hamas leader Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi in a missile strike in the Gaza Strip Saturday. Rantissi's predecessor, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, was also killed by Israel on March 22. "At the start, some considered the Americans were helping them," Mubarek said. "There was no hatred of the Americans. After what has happened in Iraq, there is unprecedented hatred and the Americans know it. "People have a feeling of injustice. What's more, they see (Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon acting as he pleases, without the Americans saying anything. He assassinates people who don't have the planes and helicopters that he has." Israel says such killings are self-defence. But Mubarak said the Rantissi assassination could have "serious consequences" and instability in Gaza and Iraq would not serve U.S. or Israeli interests. Asked about Sharon's plan to pull out of Gaza, Mubarak welcomed any withdrawal that was agreed with the Palestinians and in line with a peace "road map" drawn up by the United States, the European Union, the United Nations and Russia. The White House minimized the problem yesterday, saying U.S. President George W. Bush did not feel snubbed by Jordanian King Abdullah II's decision to leave the United States early and skip a planned meeting with Bush this week. Spokesperson Scott McClellan said the meeting was merely postponed until May and chalked it up to "domestic issues" in Jordan.

[Brandon]

So fucking what? They hated us before. It's not like that's going to change anytime soon regardless of what we do.

[davinxtk]

Brandon, that's the wrong attitude to take if you want to maintain any credibilty whilst arguing the conservative side of things.

[Brandon]

Brandon, that's the wrong attitude to take if you want to maintain any credibilty whilst arguing the conservative side of things.
WHAT CREDIBILITY?

You don't GET any credibility around here if you even slightly veer right of center.

[davinxtk]

Brandon, just because we disagree with your opinions doesn't mean we actually dislike you. Note that where we argue with you we do so in a civil fashion. Vinth doesn't get that kind of respect.

You sound like an angry, ignorant teenager when you say things like that.

[Brandon]

Brandon, just because we disagree with your opinions doesn't mean we actually dislike you. Note that where we argue with you we do so in a civil fashion. Vinth doesn't get that kind of respect.

You sound like an angry, ignorant teenager when you say things like that.
You called me a "jackass" and Kevin called me a "fucking idiot." That's hardly civil.

[davinxtk]

I try.

Look, my point is that that argument supports ignorance, intolerance, and the thought that "they" are somehow different than "us".
They're made of the same junk inside. They're humans with lives and thoughts and opinions. Their opinion isn't dismissable simply because it's consistent.

[Brandon]

Look, my point is that that argument supports ignorance, intolerance, and the thought that "they" are somehow different than "us".

They're made of the same junk inside. They're humans with lives and thoughts and opinions. Their opinion isn't dismissable simply because it's consistent.
No, but it's impractical to obsess over opinion polls that won't really change regardless of what we do.

[davinxtk]

So you're saying that everyone in the middle east hates us from the core of their being, and there's nothing we can do to change that?

[Brandon]

So you're saying that everyone in the middle east hates us from the core of their being, and there's nothing we can do to change that?
No, what I'm saying is that the anti-American sentiment among much of the Middle East is quite ingrained. Getting their opinion of us to drastically change would require completely withdrawing support from Israel, which, in my opinion, is not an option.

[davinxtk]

Why, becuase they're morally pure and fighting the good fight? :lol

[Brandon]

Why, becuase they're morally pure and fighting the good fight? :lol
Compared to the Palestinian authorities? Yes.

[davinxtk]

Touche, but that's still not the only reason they're displeased with us, by any means.
We're involved in way too many foreign affairs.
:isolationist

[Brandon]

Touche, but that's still not the only reason they're displeased with us, by any means.
We're involved in way too many foreign affairs.
:isolationist
It's the primary reason they're displeased. I'm going to even venture to say that it's the only foreign affair besides Iraq that they actually care about.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

You called me a "jackass" and Kevin called me a "fucking idiot." That's hardly civil.

Yup, you're right. Look, I'll do it again : "YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT."

Perndog is a fairly conservative guy, and I only call him an idiot 1/2 the time.

Blanco is a conservative, and I respect his intellect a whole lot.

When Bombs posts more than his typical one line jabs, he's golden.

Rorschach is a genuine, traditional conservative who I hold a massive amount of respect for.

ABC may piss me off, but he is a great perspective to have on these boards, and a great resource for Israeli/Arab history.

You are a whiner and a cry baby. My attacks on you have nothing to do with conservatism, so once again, stop playing the fucking victim.

[Brandon]

I love you, Kevin. :)

Though you didn't use the :wah this time.

Aren't you obligated to use that one every time someone complains?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

It's a wonderful resource, but no.

[Brandon]

It's a wonderful resource, but no.
Can you do it this once?

For me? :love

[Big Papa Goat]

YOUR ALL LIBERALS ITS A JEWISH CONSPIRACY >:
MAX >:
davinxtk wrote:
Brandon, that's the wrong attitude to take if you want to maintain any credibilty whilst arguing the conservative side of things.

WHAT CREDIBILITY?

You don't GET any credibility around here if you even slightly veer right of center.

[mburbank]

Brandon, respectfully, that's a steaming crock a shit.

Getting called an idiot and a jackass is the epitome of respect. When we stop responding to what you say and just make fun of you, you'll know don't respectt you anymore. IF that happens, at least in my case, it won't be because of where your opinion sits on the left right chart.

Being a tool and a victim and saying reallly stupid shit could lead me to make fun of you. Calling a writer a traitor for what they write and then saying that's not an emotional attack could lead me to loose respect for you. But I have never, ever on this board tried to highlight someones stupidity based on what their opinions were. Ask around.

[Brandon]

Ok, ok, fair enough.

Look guys, I'm just trying to keep an open mind to the conservative POV; maybe play devil's advocate. I get pissy and start posting dickheaded comments whenever I get the impression that people aren't willing to listen to what I have to say.

But.. never mind.