MAXI, PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS QUOTE.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"But I think there are two serious possabilities to avert doom here. One is that Bush doesn't get a second term. If the economoy stays in the crapper, If we grab the oil, if the war is not quick and easy for us, if Afganistan is still a shambles... Plus, the anti-war movement is already underway and could grow dramatically if America suffers on the battlefield." - Maxi

So you think that the only way to divert doom is for you fellow American's to die and for the economy to go in the "crapper".

You know, I get to listen to Rush about 1 hour a week....far less than Kevin and a few others here....but I heard him say a couple of days when refering to the opposition to Bush....... "what's good for America is bad for these people, and what's bad for America is good for them".

That's really where you are going with this. You want things to be bad. You want people to lose their jobs. You want people to American's to die on the battlefield and not come home to their families just so your side can re-aquire power.

In your mind it's justified......?

OR, were you trying to say something else?

[mburbank]

No, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

I was going to keep this secret a loy longer, but whgat the hell as long as it's all spiralling out of control I might as well let the 'cat' out pf the 'bag'.

I'm the anti-christ. I'm all about the death and suffering.

Either that or I meant W was so hell bent on a policy of moving America's money up the pipe to the wealthiest 1% and waging war on Iraq with or without support, with or without need that the only chance we have of avoiding doom is if he overwhelmingly looses the next election.

I kind of flip flop between those two posabilities.

Thanks for creating a whole new thread for this, though. I wouldn't want the news I'm the beast to get buried in the middle of a conversation where it might have had a context.

[Carnivore]

If it goes down that way, it will be resultant of Bush's policies. Max, like everyone with half a brain or more, wants to see Bush and his stupidity go away. He doesn't want people to die or lose jobs to achieve the defeat of President Dumbass in the election. Instead, he simply recognizes that is likely to happen and will be the price we pay, the mistake from which we need to learn.

[Ronnie Raygun]

You don't speak for Maxi.

Max, do you or do you not want the economy to tank?

Do you or do you not want the military to suffer heavy casualties?

[mburbank]

You don't believe I'm the anti-Christ? According to Jerry falwell, I'm the right age, sex and religion. Oh well. Let's trake a wait and see on this one.

'Naldo. I'm pretty much convinced at this point that we are in serous danger of precipitating World War Three with Bush at the Helm. I think he is totally committed to a course of action that will take us there. Am I certain? No. Are there factors that mightavert this even if He stays President. Sure. But I think the surest way to keep the world order from disintigrating is for Bush to be out of office, and the doctrine of preepmtive force abandoned.

Terrorist can and may do some VERY awful things to us, and I believe we need to do what we can to protect ourselves and forge a better world. But the very worst terrorists can do is nothing but an insect bite compared to what a world war would bring about, and in fact, I believe a world war is what Ossma and company want most of all. They can ONLY achieve this if we play into their hands, and I believe tht is exactly what W. is doing.

I hope I've made my position little more clear. But I kind of think no one, even you, was having a lot of difficulty understanding it.

[mburbank]

Sorry, Nalds. I was busy typing a cogent response while you were slapping the keyboard. To be even more clear.

The economy has already tanked. If we follow W.s tax policies it will continue to tank. As in the last Bushygoround, it might cost W. his job. THAT would be a silver lining, and could lead directly to recovery. Do I want the economy to continue to suck worse than it has in my whole life and see the school system my daughter goes to continue to loose money while being forced to spend what it has studying for tests I practically guarantee our president couldn't pass? No. But odds on with W. at the helm and if it leads to him lossing a second term at least it won't have been for nothing.

Do I want Massive American cassualties? Wht are you, some sort of monkey? Do you honestly think I somehow mnage not to have friends in the military? Beyond that, I honestly care for ALL the folk who will suffer in this war, not just the ones in American Uniforms. Anyone who thinks we can wage war from the air and take no cassualties, is a savage and an idiot. It saddens me deeply that America tends not to see war for what it is until some of it's own citizens die, but historically it's pretty clear that's the case. Like some families of survivors of 9/11 who have found common ground with Iraqi parents who lost children in the last war, perhaps this is what it takes.

But all if this is just chin music, becuase while you don't agree as is your perogative, you undrstood what I was saying all along. Or am I giving you too much credit?

[Protoclown]

Ronnie, you never fail to amaze me by consistently displaying what can only be exceedingly willful ignorance or a complete and utter lack of basic reading comprehension.

[mburbank]

Jeeze, Proto. I thought you were one of the few folks here who'd grooved to my secret identity. Didn't you see me slouching towards Bethlehem?

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Ronnie, you never fail to amaze me by consistently displaying what can only be exceedingly willful ignorance or a complete and utter lack of basic reading comprehension."

Hey, you're the one who thinks you're a Christian. That's not a label I put on you. You said it yourself. And if you still don't know what it is to be a Christain, you shouldn't be talking to me about comprehension....especially when I'm right, like I am here.

Max clearly stated in so many words that heavy casualties and a tanking economy are a couple of ways to "avert doom".

......and now he's contradicted himself.

First of all it's a fact the the economy is growing which is the oppostie of tanking which means Max is wrong there.

Second, how many casualties is "heavy casualties"? 1000? 10,000? How do you define that Max? I want to know how many you are willing to sacrafice for your side to re-gain political power?

In a matter of months I will be force feeding your own grubby words back into your mouth.

Then we'll see conspiracy theories pouring in. I can hear it now.....

"The Americans planted weapons of mass destruction in Iraq"

"Americans forged documents proving that France and Germany have been supporting Iraq illegally"

"It's the Americans who gassed civilians and set the oil wells on fire"

Let's just watch how this unfolds.

[Bennett]

First of all, who mentioned "heavy casualties"? I don't see that phrase in the original quote.

Second of all, a war with Iraq isn't just about America. You keep saying "good for America... bad for America." We're talking about an event that will have effects worldwide. People will die regardless. And the world will think even less (than they do already) of Americans. But that won't matter, because we can just blow them up too, right?

How many lives is Max willing to sacrifice for the Dems to re-gain power?

How many lives are you willing to sacrifice to acquire more power than we already have?

[mburbank]

"In a matter of months I will be force feeding your own grubby words back into your mouth. "
-Naldo

Ooooooh, Christiany!

And Nalds, how many lives am I willing to scarafice. I had no idea I was so powerful! And not to get the Dems back in power, but to avert WWIII. If you go back and read what I wrote, I believe I even suggested it might be better if a Republican took office from Bush. Nixon to China and all. I don't care what 'team' is at the helm, I care about W's agenda. I have no strategy by which I will personaly trade American lives for Democratic Victory. That's a bizarre interpretation of what I said. I believe that American casualties could well cause a reconcideration of policy as they did in Vietnam. I believe a reconcideration of policy may be the only thing that stands between us and a global war which would make the casualties were looking at in Iraq look like a traffic accident. I don't want a single soldier to die. I sincerely wish we';d call them all home right now. If anyone seems willing to scarafice American lives on the battlefield, it's W, who will actually give the order to send them into combat. I think you need to go check who the commander in chief is. It is my sincere prayer that we do not go to war at all and that no one of any nationality dies. I think you know that. re you lieing?

[AChimp]

To define "heavy casualties," I seem to recall having read somewhere that most generals define "heavy casualties" as 1/4 - 1/3 of fielded forces killed or wounded in any single conflict (i.e. a single battle, or even the entire war overall).

Going by that, the U.S. would have to have 25 000 casualties before they could be considered "heavy."

I personally think hardly anyone on the West's side will die in the impending war with Iraq. I actually have a bet with Baalzamon on this one.

He gives me $2 if less than 24 U.S. soldiers are killed, and $1 if it's between 24 and 100. I give him $1 if there's more than 100, and $2 if there's more than 1000. This bet does not include friendly fire or human incompetence. :)

[Carnivore]

You're probably right. We've become far too efficient at killing.

That and we'd probably have no problem demolishing a building and killing a few dozens civilians to take out five riflemen inside.

[AChimp]

Because, of course, those riflemen could fire at your tanks and chip the Varga girl on the side. :blah

[BombsBurstingInAir]

If I were a visiting creature from Mars, which I may be, I might think by reading Banks and Carni that they think they should be sitting in the oval office rather than GW.

[Protoclown]

Hey, you're the one who thinks you're a Christian. That's not a label I put on you. You said it yourself. And if you still don't know what it is to be a Christain, you shouldn't be talking to me about comprehension....especially when I'm right, like I am here.

Actually, that's just the thing, Ronnie. I don't, really. I don't like labels, but most people would consider me a Christian because I believe Christ died for our sins, so I just usually go with that for the sake of simplicity. I would HATE for someone to assume that I ally myself with the Christian church and their largely bassackward policies.

You however would consider me a blasphemous heathen no doubt, because I am actually tolerant of other people's beliefs (yes, even atheists, OMG!) and am not arrogant or foolish enough to believe that I am one of an elite and relative few who posess the "true" answers and are on the ONE "right" path to heaven. Oh, and I also don't hate gay people or think that women should obey their husband...you know, silly shit like that.

So if that alone means I can't be in the happy little Christians club, then YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'm not a "Christian", nor would I EVER want to be.

[sadie]

ronnie, your latest foray into flirting with "maxi" has been noted and filed away for future reference.

[mburbank]

There's no feelings like repressed feelings.

[GAsux]

All this literary foreplay is getting me really hot.

Max,
I can only assume that you play these games with Ronnie for entertainment purposes. You strike me as a far too astute person to not see the facade he uses to push people's buttons. His nonsensical rationale leads me to believe that he is primarily concerned with agitating the bees with little regard to formulating coherent thoughts.

I sometimes think that you post at length in response to him in the hopes that at some point he will be intelligent enough to at least concede that someone may have a point, and that perhaps his philosophy is not the gem he seems to think. I admire your noble efforts, although I'm quite sure they will be fruitless.

[sadie]

max is such the martyr. :P

[FS]

There's a good chance of heavy casualties if Saddam decides to lock up Bagdad and wait for the US to drag his bones out of there.

[mburbank]

GA, there are many reasons why I post at Nado. The one that most relates to what you're sayhing is;

I totally agree he is a deliberate button pusher and that's the main thing he gets out of I-mock. Taking pleasure in the shock and anger he creates. I live in hope that he may realize the degree to which this conflicts with his so called "Christian Values". It would signal some growth, and be good for his soul.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Ooooooh, Christiany!"

Oooooooh, Paganism!

"I have no strategy by which I will personaly trade American lives for Democratic Victory."

Personally? Is that your way out? All that means is that you won't be directly killing anyone but you said that one of the ways to "divert doom" is for America to "suffer on the battlefield". This quote shows that you hate the Bush administration to the extent that you are willing to sell out your fellow Americans by hopeing for heavy American casualties.

"That's a bizarre interpretation of what I said."

No. It's the common sense interpretation of what you said. You said it was one of the only ways to "avert doom" which means you are wanting it to happen. Deep down you want American soldiers to die so that your cause might be strengthened. I think that's sick.

"I believe that American casualties could well cause a reconcideration of policy as they did in Vietnam. I believe a reconcideration of policy may be the only thing that stands between us and a global war which would make the casualties were looking at in Iraq look like a traffic accident."

So that's how you justify it. Heavy American losses in Iraq would serve a greater good because they would help put a "responsible" liberal back into the White House.

"I sincerely wish we';d call them all home right now."

Yes. Because you think if Bush's forign policy is successful he will surely win Re-election. If it's not it would result in the U.N. being even more irrelevent and the evils (your allies) in this world become stronger....which you could then blame republicans for years to come.

....Not going to happen.

"If anyone seems willing to scarafice American lives on the battlefield, it's W, who will actually give the order to send them into combat."

We are at war. Winning the war will save American lives.

"It is my sincere prayer that we do not go to war at all and that no one of any nationality dies."

Who are you praying to?

Proto,

"Actually, that's just the thing, Ronnie. I don't, really."

Thankyou for FINALLY telling the truth and making a fool out of Burbank for supporting you.

"I don't like labels, but most people would consider me a Christian because I believe Christ died for our sins, so I just usually go with that for the sake of simplicity."

You don't have to be a Christain to believe that. I'm sure Satan believe Christ died to save us from ourselves....does that mean Satan is a Christian?

"I would HATE for someone to assume that I ally myself with the Christian church and their largely bassackward policies."

Me too.

"You however would consider me a blasphemous heathen no doubt, because I am actually tolerant of other people's beliefs (yes, even atheists, OMG!)"

As am I. And no, I don't think you are anymore of a "heathen" than I am. It's not about works alone.

"and am not arrogant or foolish enough to believe that I am one of an elite and relative few who posess the "true" answers and are on the ONE "right" path to heaven."

This is proof that you are not a Christian.

"Oh, and I also don't hate gay people or think that women should obey their husband...you know, silly shit like that."

Do you honestly think that I hate gays? PLease!! Of course I don't. If someone chooses to live a gay lifestyle that has nothing to do with me. I do think my wife should obey me.....but not any more than I obey her. We are equal partners in life.

"So if that alone means I can't be in the happy little Christians club, then YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'm not a "Christian", nor would I EVER want to be."

Then how can you possibly be mad at me for saying that you're not? I mean, if you're not, you're not. I don't claim to be things that I'm not. And if I was mistaken, I wouldn't get all pissed about it. Just because you make up your own belief and decide to live by it...doesn't mean that Christ will accept it. You must live by GOD's standards and rules.....not vice versa.

[Protoclown]

Two things, Ronnie:

1. Do you smoke crack?

2. YOU'D BETTER CHECK YOUR HOUSE FOR MILDEW RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!!

[Carnivore]

Personally, I take Ronnie's disapproval as an affirmation of my beliefs. I'm happy to know that I don't fit his narrow, imbecilic view of what a Christian is.

[Protoclown]

Agreed. The fact that Ronnie tells me I'm NOT a Christian just more firmly cements my beliefs where they currently are. As I've stated before, I would never WANT to be his kind of Christian, and I will wear my "NOT a Christian (according to Ronnie, MOUTH OF THE MESSIAH)" badge with pride and honor.

[Carnivore]

Afuckingmen to that!

http://home.attbi.com/~martok/Buddy_Christ.jpg

[Ronnie Raygun]

"I would never WANT to be his kind of Christian, and I will wear my "NOT a Christian (according to Ronnie, MOUTH OF THE MESSIAH)" badge with pride and honor."

What you don't believe me? Shall I show you where Christ himself says that HE is the only way to heaven?....or do you already know it and choose to ignore it?

[Carnivore]

The fact is, fuckhead, that you don't know the will of God any better than any other man or woman alive. People interpret the Bible in many ways. Proto and I recognize this, interpret it our way, and hope that we're doing what's right. We know we might not be, so we don't judge others who interpret things differently. You, jackass, act as if you know the will of God and cast judgment on those who interpret things differently from you. Guess what, assclown! You could very well be wrong! In fact, I believe very much that you are. I just don't feel it's right for me to call you a non-Christian and attack your views because they don't mesh with my own. That's why I'm a tolerant person and you're an asshole.

[Protoclown]

Shall I show you where Christ himself says that HE is the only way to heaven?....or do you already know it and choose to ignore it?

SURE RONNIE THAT IS IT EXACTLY, YEP, THAT'S WHAT IT IS :)

[Ronnie Raygun]

I'm more tolerant than you are, Carnivore. I work with people from every color, country, religion, sexual orientation and we are all good friends. That's how it is when you work in international at the busiest airport in the world.....not to mention the passengers.

Proto, I'm going to be off this week but I'll be back in 3 days with a quote from Christ himself that will show that you are without a doubt, NOT a Christian.

I think it's important for you to realize that.

No harm intended.

[Carnivore]

Dude! He's going to get audio from Jesus! I can't wait to hear this!

[mburbank]

Naldo: You will not be back with a 'quote from Christ'. You will be back with a quote from the Gospels, written well after his death and not by the apostles as I imagine you believe, although no biblical scholar would agree, not that it matters. The Bible is not a tape recorder. The idea that it is the divine word of God revealed is an article of faith, to whichg you are entitled, but you can't expect others to accept it as fact.

Any point of text on which all four gospels agree is a good place to start with what Jesus probably said. I await your selcted quote for study.

Do your Homosexual friends know that you believe if they do not repent their orientation they will go to hell for eternity? I'm only guessing here, but it might make them like you less. Even if you do work in an international airport.

Are you implying that I have no Republican or Christian friends? I always thought I did, but then, sadly, I lack your power to define 'real' Christians and Republicans.

[Carnivore]

Does this mean he's not going to talk with Jesus and record the conversation for us? :tear

[AChimp]

Fuck no. He's going to have a seance and use a Ouija board. >:

[Vibecrewangel]

It still completely amazes me that people quote the bible and say "It says this so it must be right"

Take for exmple the going to heaven issue. Most religions, faiths, philosophies and cults have something in their text that explains the only way to get to heaven or achive enlightenment or be reincarnated as something desirable (which is by the way just another view of everlasting life) or attain whatever gift is to be bestowed upon you for being a good follower. What makes one any more right than the others?

[mburbank]

Well, see, all the other religions throughout Human history are just made up hooey. Christianity is true. I guess God got sick and tired of watching people make up religions and so went ahead and revealed himself to the jews and then modified the package with Jesus so that a small group of people on earth would have access to the truth and everyone else could get with the program or go to hell. Then those rascally Isslamists tgried to take the religion a step further, but there just back to making shit up again. You know, like Catholics.

Clear, now?

[Vibecrewangel]

Oh......is that it?

Thanks Max, It's all clear now.

And here I thought that society, environment, language and culture might have had something to do with it......silly me.

[FS]

Ronnie, why do you want to prove that Proto is not a real Christian? Is it because you don't want him to be part of the same 'group' as you? Is it because you don't want to sit next to him on the busride to salvation on judgement day? Is it because you're being judgemental and susprisingly un-Christian?

Despite the many age-old laws the Bible may dictate, any fool can see when they read the Bible that Jesus was all about love. Love for the fellow man no matter if they were an unbeliever, a politician, a whore or an enemy. Hence why the good book stresses one should not judge their fellow man. THAT's what it's all about. Loving your fellow man and putting your faith in God to sort out the rest. That's "God", and not "Ronnie Raygun", see.

[AChimp]

God also says to stone lepers. >:

[Protoclown]

Proto, I'm going to be off this week but I'll be back in 3 days with a quote from Christ himself that will show that you are without a doubt, NOT a Christian.

Will it read something like this?

"Protoclown, you are NOT a Christian." - Ronnie 2:18

[mburbank]

It's pretty clear y'all lack a serious religous educumation.

"And here I thought that society, environment, language and culture might have had something to do with it......silly me."
-Vibe

That is the case for ALL RELIGIONS. As stated in the book olf Naldo, Christianity is NOT a religion it is the TRUTH.

"Love for the fellow man no matter if they were an unbeliever, a politician, a whore or an enemy. "
-FS

Sure love THEM, that their SIN which if they do not REPENT you can love them as they go to hell for eternity. And if they don't accept Jesus you can love them all the way to hell no MATTER WHAT! Rest assured God loves you. But He can love you and damn you, becuae he gavce you a choice and as much as he loves you, rules are rules! I love my daughters, but if they do wrong, they need to be punished eternally or they'll never learn.

Oh and Naldo doesn't want to prove anything. It's not debatable. Proto ISN'T a CHRISTIAN and if he DOESN'T become one he will go to HELL for ETERNITY when he dies. It's NOT Naldo's fault, it's GODS!

[Ronnie Raygun]

No. It's Proto's.

[Protoclown]

That's because being a good person is more important to me than being a "true Christian" in the eyes of Ronnie Raygun.

[kellychaos]

Is it because you don't want him to be part of the same 'group' as you? Is it because you don't want to sit next to him on the busride to salvation on judgement day? Is it because you're being judgemental and susprisingly un-Christian?

Funny how so many people who are part of organized religion enjoy being elitist, judgmental snobs ... the very anithesis of Christ. Quite a paradox, eh Ronnie? That's why I don't belong to any organized religion. I can analyze/interpret the Bible on my own terms. It's not meant to be take so literal anyway.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"That's because being a good person is more important to me than being a "true Christian" in the eyes of Ronnie Raygun."

Proto, don't focus on me. focus on being a true Christian in the eyes of Jesus Christ. That's all I'd really like you to do. I'm not being snobbish or anything else like that. Why can't you just trust that I have the best of intentions. I can tell by the things you've said that you are not a Christian according to the word of Jesus Christ himself. You shouldn't get angry with me for pointing that out. I think it's important for you to know that What you say a Christian is, and what Christ says a Christian is is different. If your claiming to be a Christian, isn't that something important to know?

"Funny how so many people who are part of organized religion enjoy being elitist, judgmental snobs ... the very anithesis of Christ."

I agree 100%. I dealt with those people all of my life.

"Quite a paradox, eh Ronnie?"

Not really for me. I've been to church in just about every denomination that exists.....all the major ones at least. And I can tell you that most have a major flaw....at least one....others have lesser flaws....all are flawed in some way.

However, the vast majority of these people as individuals are not snobs, elitist or anything of the sort. They are ordinary people just like you and me ....or even Maxi....who just go to work, take their kids to soccer practice, cook dinner, pay taxes....the only difference is on top of all that...they've given control of their life over to Jesus Christ.

Many churches are responsible for appearing elitist many are not.

Many people like you are responsible for blaming people who are not.

"That's why I don't belong to any organized religion. I can analyze/interpret the Bible on my own terms."

That's what you are supposed to do. You shouldn't rely on what another man or woman has to say. Focus on GOD's inspired word.

"It's not meant to be take so literal anyway."

So literal as what?

[Anonymous]

Responding the Ronnie way:
Many churches are responsible for appearing elitist many are not.
Many people like you are responsible for blaming people who are not.

I was responsible for buying bread this morning. While that may or may not have anything to do with your point, I did see one word I liked and got a hankerin' for responding to it.

On an unrelated note:
I'm only guessing here, but it might make them like you less. Even if you do work in an international airport.
:lol

[mburbank]

"You shouldn't rely on what another man or woman has to say. Focus on GOD's inspired word. "

But YOU, Naldo, claim to understand God's terms for being a Christian and being saved. Proto should not rely on how HE understnds God's inspired word, because he is WRONG. And he's going to HELL. You know this without a doubt.

Pony up, Naldo. In context, what's your text. Chapter and verse.

[FS]

You shouldn't rely on what another man or woman has to say. Focus on GOD's inspired word.

Uh, same thing? Lots of men and women like to say words they claim God inspired them to say. Who is qualified to properly convey God's inspired word? I hope you don't name yourself.

Not relying on another man's words -yours- is exactly what Proto is doing as far as I can tell, and exactly what you are asking him to do.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Pony up?

Jn. 14:6

Rom. 6:23

Jn. 5:11

Jn: 20:31

Jn: 3:36

Jn 3:3

Jn 6:37

Jn 3:7

Jn 3:16

Jn 3:17

Mk 16:16

[Anonymous]

Aus 3:16

[mburbank]

Naldo, I assure you I'll look into it and will strt a brand new thread in response. But just looking aat your sources, I have an initial bone to pick.

Throw out the Romans reference. These are letters written well after the life of Jesus. I know you have bead on what's divinely inspired and what isn't, but I'm not going to make any claims regarding what I site and am already allowing Gospels despite the fact that they too were almost certianly written way after Jesus. Plus, I'll give you another freeby by not including any of the Gospels which got cut from the New Testament several hundred years after the life of Jesus.

It's the fairly striking that with one exception, all your references come from John. Hmmmm. What do we make of this? My guess is you don't even know the overall differences between the Gospels. I'll tell you what, though. They're pretty big, and they're prettty important.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Well, the answer to that is easy.

I just flipped to Jn. and started looking.

As long as those references from Rom. do not contradict the words of Christ....which they don't....I really don't think you point holds much weight.

Chist himself said that HE is the only way to the Father in heaven.

My point is simply, that if you are going to call yourself a CHRISTian you should believe GOD's inspired word when it tells you that CHRIST is the only way to heaven.

I really don't see how anyone could disagree......unless you just wanted to disagree with Raygun for the sake of disagreeing with Raygun.

[sadie]

third-person self-references are so gay. get over yourself, please.

[kellychaos]

I agree 100%. I dealt with those people all of my life.


... and apparently learned some of the tricks of the trade.


However, the vast majority of these people as individuals are not snobs, elitist or anything of the sort.


Most people I know who go treat it like a social event where they get to dress up, look down their noses at the rest of the congregation and then do those same things that they talk about others doing ... as if one day a week is going to absolve them for the other six. :rolleyes


Many people like you are responsible for blaming people who are not.


... and what's your term for the condescending and hypocritical. Maybe I need to borrow your thesaurus. I'm just concerned with basically being a good human being. Ralph Waldo Emerson says it's in all of us to do so on our own. Sorry if I prefer his word over your misconstrued interpretations.


That's what you are supposed to do. You shouldn't rely on what another man or woman has to say. Focus on GOD's inspired word.


Meahwhile, your religious leader (whoever that is) is changing your mental diaper every week ... it needs it.


So literal as what?

So literal as the diarhea of quotes you provide daily.

[Anonymous]

Could somebody please spell "possibilities" correctly? I'm assuming that if you have all the answers in regards to maintaining world peace, you must at least have a light grasp on simple written communications.

[mburbank]

Hink, Blow me.


Naldo, your answer isn't 'easy' it's 'simple'.

"Christ himself said that HE is the only way to the Father in heaven. "
Fine, then your comfortable throwing out Romans as HE doesn't say anything in it.

I suspect, Naldo that as opposed to 'flipping' to anything, you used the biblical sissie's 'find a topic' chart thrown in at the front of many of your finer Full Text Bibles with Cliff Notes style educumation pointers. Or maybe you have one of those ever so cute color coded texts, where the Word O God is in RED so you don't have to be troubled by reading the context.

Jesus said Lots of things, many of them way more frequently than anything he said about salvation. If the Bulk of what JC was about was simply how NOT to go to hell, he'd have had all the lasting religous appeal of a fall out shelter.

But don't get your John th Baptist Underoos in a twist. I intend to give this matter some actual thought. And believe me Ronnie, I'd be most Happy if you said something I COULD agree with.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Whatever,

I'm waiting for a reponse to GOD's word.

[Carnivore]

I love how he acts as if he said something prophetic and unequivocal.

Guess what, shitbrick! Every passage you quoted is open to interpretation!

[theapportioner]

Jesus condoned torture? Repression of free speech and due process? "Total Information Awareness"? Good thing I'm not a Christian!!!!!!!

[mburbank]

Nadlo. What is this the Jenny Jones Show? How can you use 'Whatever' and still look at yourself in te mirror when you shave?

Again, you need to wait, as I intend to actually think before opening my chow hole.

[The_Rorschach]

Well, just to throw a couple pennies. Paul, pre-name change, did meet Christ, and was viewed by the Chruch at large as an authority on doctrine. . .So I believe Romans has some validity.

However, if you REALLY want to quibble. Most non-conservative (biblically not politically) oriented theologians believe that the book of John was written by multiple authors in the name of John. The synoptic gospels (Mark, Matthew and Luke) are treated as a group, because they agree closely. The Gospel of John is treated separately, as are the writings of St. Paul, because of their discussion of the nature of Jesus and the criteria for salvation, as opposed to the life and times of the Man himself.

[mburbank]

Which is why almost all his references came from John, not due to any 'flipping'.

But this 'argument' is really a game, since Ronnie starts from the proposal that the New Testament was written by GOD with the authors playing a part somewhere between scribes and dictaphones. And GOD is by deffinition INFALLIBLE.

I'll tell you what, though, even accepting that (AND I DON'T) you can make hell of an argument for what Jesus AND the God who inspired the books that went into the bible ascribed to salvation as compared to everything else Jesus taught. It's a hallmark of Naldoanity to focus obsessively on how you personally can avoid damnation and win valuable God time as opposed to Jesus' teaching on how to treat your fellow man, especially your enemies.

[The_Rorschach]

Well, as far as strict requirements go, if I remember correctly for the gentiles there were only four. I wish I had my Bible on me, my memory is so fucking terrible, but they were something like, to abstain from fornicating, not to eat meat consecrated in the names of false gods and. . .Thats where I lose track.

But yeah, you have a valid point. Christ's teachings had less to do on hell and damnation, or avoiding it, and more on explaining the message of the Kingdom on Heaven and how one who follows Him should act with compassion.

Although, depending upon how deeply you read the scriptures, there is a wealth of information to be found. I have a neat little theory on time based on the four gospels. Need to get my bible and notes to share though.

While I believe that Bible was written under the inspiration of God, and therefore His word, I believe the true words of God within are largely symbolic. For the most part, when God spoke to others, He spoke allegorically (I hope I'm not misusing this word). Like with Christ's Sermons on the Mount, he used parables.