THE ECONOMY IS STRONG AND THAT'S BAD NEWS FOR LIBERALS.

[Ronnie Raygun]

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/63342|top|05-06-2004::14:05|reuters.html

Jobless Claims Hit 2000 Low

May 6, 1:49 PM (ET)

By Alister Bull
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - America's employment outlook brightened on Thursday after the government said jobless claims dropped last week to their lowest since 2000, bolstering expectations for strong numbers in the April jobs report.

U.S. Treasury bond yields hit a two-year high on the unexpectedly rosy number and the dollar climbed 1 percent against the yen as markets bet heavily the Federal Reserve will hike interest rates this summer as the economy warms.

The picture of a better jobs climate was also backed by an unexpected increase in unit labor costs in the first quarter, alongside respectable productivity growth of 3.5 percent.

First-time claims for state unemployment benefits shrank 25,000 to 315,000 in the week ended May 1, the Labor Department said. It was the third straight week of declines.

Wall Street analysts had forecast a slight fall in claims to 335,000 from a revised 340,000 the previous week.

Grant Wilson, vice president of foreign exchange at Mellon Bank in Pittsburgh, said the jobless numbers were a good omen on the eve of the April employment report.

"We weren't expecting anything as (good) as this. It bodes well for the unemployment number tomorrow," Wilson said.

April non-farm payrolls are set for release at 8:30 a.m. EDT (1230 GMT) on Friday and are forecast to show creation of 173,000 new jobs. That would be a marked moderation from March, when 308,000 were added, but still evidence that labor conditions are tightening.

Last week's jobless claims data will make no difference to the April report, which was drawn from a survey in the middle of last month. But the upbeat tone chimed with a broad sense that the outlook was bright.

WAGE PRESSURES?

"The abundance of risks to our forecast of an employment gain of 150,000 for April is to the upside," Bank of America economist Gary Bigg warned clients in a note.

In Thursday's data, in addition to lower initial claims the four-week moving average of insurance filings, which smooths weekly fluctuations to provide a better picture of trends, retreated by 3,750 to 343,250.

Also, the number of unemployed on the benefit rolls after claiming an initial week of aid dropped 69,000 to 2.935 million in the week ended April 24, the latest for which figures are available. This was the lowest since June 2001, in the middle of the recession, when 2.933 million people were drawing unemployment insurance.

The drop points in a positive direction for the jobs market since the number had been indicating that while layoffs had slowed, firms were not rushing to hire new workers and had been utilizing greater productivity to meet rising demand.

Labor said productivity rose again in the first quarter, increasing at a 3.5 percent annual rate, as expected. But unit labor costs turned 0.5 percent higher, defying market forecasts for costs to be flat.

"The rise in unit labor costs is not worrying, but it is the least good performance in a year, and the chances are that the next few quarters will see bigger increases," said Ian Shepherdson, chief U.S. economist at High Frequency Economics in Valhalla, New York.

Powerful productivity growth has helped companies keep a lid on compensation costs but the pick-up in employment had been expected to signal the end of this cycle, and the Fed likely will take note of the uptick in costs.

The central bank is expected to hike interest rates for the first time in four years in the months ahead. However, after a regular meeting on Tuesday at which it left rates at a 1958-low of 1 percent, it announced it would be "measured" in removing policy accommodation.

[punkgrrrlie10]

For anyone who cares, there is a list on CNN for U.S. companies that are known to outsource.

[Ronnie Raygun]

They outsource because they are the 2nd highest taxed in the world.

[Zebra 3]

For anyone who cares, there is a list on CNN for U.S. companies that are known to outsource.

Its an ongoing series which is discussed on CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/) (mid-page, 'Exporting America': The List).

[punkgrrrlie10]

Yeah that one.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Save American jobs.....lower taxes on corporations.

[Miss Modular]

I don't know if people are going to care about the economy so much this time around. They will, but not to the degree they have in the past.

And if the economy is doing so well, then why is gas $2.00 (and more) a gallon?

[punkgrrrlie10]

lowering taxes on corporations doesn't do much for that minimum wage they still have to pay here, and not everywhere else.

[mesobe]

lowering taxes for corporations just buys the fat CEO another car. maybe they will use the extra money to take out more life insurance plans in their employees... or as its better known: the "Dead Peasents Insurance"

[sspadowsky]

Has anyone noticed that the only stuff Raygun posts that's longer than one to three sentences is something he didn't write?

Just sayin'.

[mburbank]

Say, Nalds, are you salaried or hourly?

If hourly, is it going to piss you off when you loose your overtime pay and they start making you work weekends?

[AChimp]

He'll just be able to quit and get a better job at the drop of a hat if they do that, Max. You know, to show his disapproval. :rave

[The One and Only...]

Lowering taxes on corporations does not increase incentives for American corporations to stay here. We tax foreign profits as well as those earned in the motherland.

[VinceZeb]

MM, gas is 2 bucks a gallon because oil is highly priced, we don't have enough refineries, and the EPA standards for different regions means one region cannot sell its gasoline to one in short supply.

You can blame the arabs for 1 and the environazis for 2 and 3

[glowbelly]

the economy is a huge issue for states like ohio and i guarantee that it will be a factor in the upcoming election.

we pay some of the highest income and sales taxes in the country and we can't keep jobs in the area, keep cops on the street or keep our schools from closing. i understand that most of those factors are local issues, but still...with gas prices going up and some of our major companies (sbc) outsourcing, you can't help but believe that some of the blame has to shift to a greater power.

it's really, really bad here. we're considering a move to a different state if it keeps up. in the past 6 months we have laid off 250 police officers, 618 teachers and sbc is about to go on strike. gas is near $2 a gallon and the mayor and the chief of police are both calling for another quarter percent income tax increase.

[ranxer]

just like clinton kicked thousands out of welfare then claimed welfare claims were down at record numbers, the bush admin is counting people out of the unemployment system as having jobs.

i suspect the job growth is a result of the security state growing on the debt.. i wouldnt count it as a successful recovery but a successful prisonification.. but i'm just guessing.

taxes!? you ass ron.. corporations already pay an average of over 50% less taxes proportionally than citizens.
even the IRS has its website maintained by a company incorporated in Bermuda! damnit

checkout http://jobwatch.org/index.html for some info on actual vs. bush admin projected(and reported) job gains.. they even have some graphics for those that don't want to read it :)

[Royal Tenenbaum]

If only the State was allowed to control the markets. Then everything would be fine. :)

[davinxtk]

I want to explode all over this thread.

I just can't figure out where to start.

[ItalianStereotype]

ranxer, are you EVER happy with ANYTHING?

[davinxtk]

Follow his link and tell him what he has to be happy about.

[ItalianStereotype]

"hey, everything was really shitty last year, but we don't want things to get better because then we won't be able to bitch"

[davinxtk]

Things arent getting better, you crusted anal secretion. You're being told they're getting better, by people who need you to believe they're getting better so that they can remain in power, and you're suckling on the propaganda nipple like a newborn right-wing piglet looking for a teat and finding the business end of a Desert Eagle.


Read a fucking book.

[ItalianStereotype]

hahahaha, look at davin! he thinks he's people!

you sit here arguing on a message board, thinking you're some grand scholar in an ivory tower, trying to tell me that I'm being led around by the right wing machine in some Illuminati-esque conspiracy without realizing just how stupid you look. the simple fact of the matter is that we are NOT going to return to the levels of prosperity we enjoyed in the 90's overnight. it's a process, slow and steady, and I think that ANY improvement, no matter how slight, should be celebrated. you, on the other hand, are a great purple screaming lesion of the cock.

and when you actually finish a book more than 100 pages long, then you can come talk to me. you still won't be on my level, but I don't mind talking down.

[glowbelly]

well, it's not getting better here...and i think i read somewhere that no republican president has ever won an election without winning ohio.

[Ronnie Raygun]

What none of you seem to understand is that while corporations are taxed...they don't in fact pay taxes.

Can you grasp that?

Do you understand that they are just going to pass the cost of taxes on to the consumer so that anytime THEY are taxed it just ends up being a tax increase on YOU.

You probably have never realized that because you are more concerned with hating who you precieve as being rich.

"Things arent getting better, you crusted anal secretion. You're being told they're getting better, by people who need you to believe they're getting better so that they can remain in power, and you're suckling on the propaganda nipple like a newborn right-wing piglet looking for a teat and finding the business end of a Desert Eagle." - Davinxtk

This is complete shit. It's widely accepted and it's a proven fact that "things are better". The stock market has recovered, interest raetes are way down, unemployment is down according to unbiased govt. stats.........but that disproves your point so you reach for some bullshit conspiracy.

"taxes!? you ass ron.. corporations already pay an average of over 50% less taxes proportionally than citizens." - Ranxer

That's completely irrelevent. We have the 2nd highest taxed corporations in the world. When you factor that with the fact that corporations exist soley to make a profit you begin to understand why they are leaving.

"lowering taxes for corporations just buys the fat CEO another car. maybe they will use the extra money to take out more life insurance plans in their employees... or as its better known: the "Dead Peasents Insurance"." - mesobe

You would have to be just plain ignorant and lazy to say something like this. Corporations don't pay taxes as it is. A pay cut for corporations simply means the consumer gets a better deal.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Wait I'm confused. An earlier post of yours in this same thread says they outsource b/c they are the 2nd highest taxed but now you say they don't pay taxes...

You say they exist to make a profit and they just pass the tax onto consumers making their profit exactly the same as it would be if they did or did not outsource.

So what are you exactly saying is good here?

[Rez]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0423/csmimg/cartoon.jpg

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Wait I'm confused."

Yes you are.

"An earlier post of yours in this same thread says they outsource b/c they are the 2nd highest taxed but now you say they don't pay taxes..."

AND?!?!

"You say they exist to make a profit and they just pass the tax onto consumers making their profit exactly the same as it would be if they did or did not outsource."

No, because they have to raise the overall price of their products which tends to stiffle a buyers market and econmic growth as a whole....Get it?

"So what are you exactly saying is good here?"

I'm saying that high taxes are to blame for outrsourcing.

[Anonymouse]

So many people ignorant of economics in here, it would be almost pointless to discuss it now. When people believe that "government creates prosperity" what is the point in engaging in an economics discussion when government is the only thing that hampers on productivity.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Agreed.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Yet if all the jobs are gone, people don't have the money to buy the products anyway even if they are less costly.

[Ronnie Raygun]

ALL the jobs aren't gone.

[Drew Katsikas]

If only the State was allowed to control the markets. Then everything would be fine. :)

no

[Rez]

MINIMUM WAGE creates outsourcing.
exploit the people. :)

[punkgrrrlie10]

Minimum wages, regulation of health and safety, worker's comp, law suits based on products that hurt the consumer.... let's do away with all of it.

[sspadowsky]

They outsource because they are the 2nd highest taxed in the world.

OK... moving on to....

What none of you seem to understand is that while corporations are taxed...they don't in fact pay taxes.

Which is it, serpent-tongue?

Can you grasp that?

What? The fact that you can talk out of both sides of your mouth with such an utter lack of verbal dexterity?


That's completely irrelevent. We have the 2nd highest taxed corporations in the world. When you factor that with the fact that corporations exist soley to make a profit you begin to understand why they are leaving.

OK, so corporations don't pay taxes, but they're so heavily taxed that that's what is causing them to outsource jobs to the extent that they are? You either have the worst case of short-term memory loss since Tom Hanks, or you're the biggest moron that ever walked this Earth, Ronnie. I've never before seen someone, not even since that Chagroth idiot, that could contradict himself so many times in the same thread without even realizing it.

AND?!?!

AND, you're a self-contradicting jackass. Pick one side or the other. Lying doesn't become even a person so lacking integrity as yourself.

I'm saying that high taxes are to blame for outrsourcing.

So corporations don't pay taxes, yet taxes on corporations are to blame for outsourcing. My God, you're dumb. At least TRY to make a consistent effort to defend the people you're defending. Why don't you do backfilps while you're spouting this shit?

ALL the jobs aren't gone.

No, they're just in other countries, because it's cheaper for the corporations to take that route rather than pay the taxes they're supposed to pay.

[punkgrrrlie10]

You forget we still have all those nice food service jobs that COMPLETELY support a family. Oh and everyone who isn't, can be a doctor or engineer b/c college and especially grad school is so affordable.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

What none of you seem to understand is that while corporations are taxed...they don't in fact pay taxes.

Can you grasp that?

Do you understand that they are just going to pass the cost of taxes on to the consumer so that anytime THEY are taxed it just ends up being a tax increase on YOU.

You probably have never realized that because you are more concerned with hating who you precieve as being rich.

I think most folks on this board are well aware of this. Your solution for this however seems to be, "well, they have done a great job avoiding their taxes, so let's reward them for it!" Corporations can afford paying taxes and wages. They did it throughout the 1950s, and Americans had jobs and lived in relative comfort. I realize the global scene has changed drastically, however, I'll say it again-- corporations can handle the taxes.

[mburbank]

Nalds, I've posed this question to a few folks on the board, it's your turn now.

Did you get a raise last year? if you did, did it give you more money than the cost of your health insurance, gasoline, heating oil or whatever you use to heat your house going up?

I'm not an economist, but that's the measure of my day to day life, and this is (despite the generous bush tax cut, which didn't pay even one heating bill for me) the third consecutive year that my raise is less than my increased costs. It is getting harder fo m to get by. In order to tread water, I have to cut back. That's the economic reality for me and most of the people I know. And I was lucky enough to be employed for most of the last three years. How have things been for you?

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Which is it, serpent-tongue?"

Spad, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....

You are a complete moron if you can't understand that simple yet truthful statement.

Maybe you do understand and are just trying to be a jerk.

"You forget we still have all those nice food service jobs that COMPLETELY support a family. Oh and everyone who isn't, can be a doctor or engineer b/c college and especially grad school is so affordable." - Punky

What is your solution...."EVERYTHING IS FREE!"?

"I think most folks on this board are well aware of this. Your solution for this however seems to be, "well, they have done a great job avoiding their taxes, so let's reward them for it!" - Kevin

Don't forget that a corporation only exists to make money. Secondly, it's not some rich CEO who is reaping the rewards of a tax cut....it's the consumer.

"Corporations can afford paying taxes and wages. They did it throughout the 1950s, and Americans had jobs and lived in relative comfort. I realize the global scene has changed drastically, however, I'll say it again-- corporations can handle the taxes." - Kevin

I'd say that if they could handle it they wouldn't be looking for lost costs over seas considering that "the vast majority" of American made products are superior. Especially in today's economic environment, I don't think U.S. companies really want to outsource.

Max, I don't mind answering your question.....but I don't really see how it's relevant......Unless you are trying to say that tax cuts don't spur economic growth....? Is that what you are saying?

[sspadowsky]

Spad, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....

You are a complete moron if you can't understand that simple yet truthful statement.

Maybe you do understand and are just trying to be a jerk.

Maybe you're full of shit, and you know it, and you don't like being called on it.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I think I'll laugh..

As long as Kevin and Max understand....and they do.

[mburbank]

Gol, nalds, it's the same question your namesake posed, I'd have thought you recognized it.

Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

My family is not. Each year my wife and I take on more hours simply to keep my family in the same place. How are you doing?

Isn't Delta your company?

[Ronnie Raygun]

I'm doing great I just don't see how the question is relevant......

Are you saying that tax cuts don't spur economic growth?

[mburbank]

maybe, just maybe you understand the question better today.

[glowbelly]

every tax penny i got back from the irs went to paying my bills.

i didn't go out on a wild spending spree with it. i paid my phone, gas, electric and rent.

how does that spur economic growth?

i had to cancel my cable, restructure my phone plan so i could save $15 a month (getting rid of long distance), go on a gas budget, cancel our subscription to the newspaper, lower my minutes on my cell phone, reduce spending on groceries, lower my automobile insurance coverage...just so we can float with about $150 extra a month for non-essentials (gas, cigarettes, the occassional ice cream).

in doing all of this, i'm not stimulating economic growth. i'm cutting back every way i can so i can live semi-comfortably.

[davinxtk]

hahahaha, look at davin! he thinks he's people!

... et cetera

You are a very painfully pink individual.
Fuck off.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"in doing all of this, i'm not stimulating economic growth. i'm cutting back every way i can so i can live semi-comfortably." - Glow

I guess the tax cut helped you live more "semi-comfortably". Thank Bush for giving you back more of your own money despite the wishes of those you support.

I bought a new bass amp (American made) with my tax cut.

[glowbelly]

no, ronnie. the tax cut didn't help at all. I USED IT TO PAY BILLS AND THEN I HAD TO CUT ALL OF MY SPENDING BACK SO I COULD LIVE SEMI-COMFORTABLY. i'm not going to say that it wasn't nice to get extra money back for spending money on my education, but i still had to dish out $3000 for school, while getting $500 of it back.

and what i mean by semi-comfortably is that i am living in a horrible neighborhood in a city where police are scarce and drug dealers live in every other house, eating peanut butter sandwiches, putting $5 in my gas tank when i really, really need it and scraping up change to buy cigarettes (something i know is superflous and terrible for me, but hey, i'm addicted).

i'm not worried, though...actually, i'm quite happy. i'm just trying to show you that it's not so easy for everybody out there and the midwest states that have previously relied on industrial and manufacturing jobs are suffering in a big way.

[mburbank]

Yeah, but see, your suffering is $500.00 less than it would have been without the tax cut! Don't you get it!?!

He has no connction whatever to our dismal economy, he'd just making it better! Shit, he gve you $500.00!! The fact that your state had to raise your taxes by more than that becuae of govrnment cuts isn't his fault, he HAD to make that cut to give whiners like you back your money!

[Supafly345]

I don't argue politics over the internet, but I will say this: political bias' are clouding both sides of this debate.