LEFTIST LEANING LABOR UNIONS MAY PUT MY COMPANY.............

[Ronnie Raygun]

......INTO BANKRUPTCY!

WoW! Big Shocker!!

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=us&sid=aA1km2BHAzng

Delta Air May Seek Bankruptcy If It Can't Cut Costs (Update4)
May 10 (Bloomberg) -- Delta Air Lines Inc., whose pilots have balked at a 30 percent pay cut, said it may be forced to seek bankruptcy protection unless it's able to reduce costs, stem losses and raise capital.

The comment in a regulatory filing today by Atlanta-based Delta, the third-largest U.S. carrier, follows US Airways Group Inc.'s statement last week that it may need to seek bankruptcy protection again unless its unions agree to more concessions. Labor is airlines' biggest expense.

The two airlines have continued to post losses as low-fare carriers such as Southwest Airlines Co., JetBlue Airways Corp. and AirTran Holdings Inc. step up competition. Delta Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein on April 23 called a pilot pay-cut offer inadequate and said bankruptcy could ``easily be avoided.''

Delta is ``raising the possibility of bankruptcy to help persuade their pilots to entertain financial concessions,'' said Standard & Poor's analyst Philip Baggaley.

The union didn't immediately respond to a call seeking a comment.

The airline's shares declined 64 cents, or 12 percent, to $4.74 in New York Stock Exchange trading at 3:41 p.m. They have fallen 60 percent this year and since April 29 have been at their lowest since at least 1980, according to Bloomberg data.

Delta said today in its filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission: ``If we cannot achieve a competitive cost structure, regain sustained profitability and access the capital markets on acceptable terms, we will need to pursue alternative courses of action intended to make us viable for the long-term, including the possibility of seeking to restructure our costs under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code.''

Losses Since 2000

Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue. Grinstein, who took over as chief executive this year after Leo Mullin resigned in November, is reviewing all of Delta's operations in an effort to help stem the losses.

The filing said Delta has ``significant obligations'' due next year, including $1.23 billion of debt. Delta also expects 2005 employee pension contributions of more than the $460 million paid this year and about $1 billion in aircraft financing.

Delta had $2.45 billion in cash as of the end of March, down from $2.92 billion three months earlier. It borrowed $225 million in the first quarter for regional-jet purchases and in February issued $325 million in convertible senior notes and agreed to buy 32 more of the smaller jets, valued at $780 million.

Competitors US Airways, UAL Corp.'s United Airlines and AMR Corp.'s American Airlines have reduced costs through filing for or threatening to seek bankruptcy, Delta said in the SEC filing.

Pilot Talks

The pilots are Delta's only major employee group represented by a union. The union offered to accept a 9 percent reduction and forgo a 4.5 percent increase that was due this month. The wage increase was paid, increasing annual costs by $85 million, according to the filing.

Delta was also recently required to start recalling 1,060 pilots laid off after the Sept. 11 attacks because passenger traffic exceeded the amount stipulated by an arbitrator.

Analysts and labor leaders won't be surprised by the disclosure that bankruptcy is a possibility, Baggaley said. The widening spread between the prices on Delta bonds and benchmark U.S. treasury bonds since the pilot talks stalled last year have reflected the worsening situation, he said.

US Airways, which raised the possibility of seeking bankruptcy protection a second time, in an SEC filing Friday, has been briefing employees on its new strategy and plans to seek more pay and benefit concessions in the next few months. US Airways exited bankruptcy in April 2003, helped by worker concessions.



To contact the reporter on this story:
Lynne Marek in Chicago at lmarek@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story:
Steve Geimann at sgeimann@bloomberg.net

[AChimp]

Ha ha.

[Ronnie Raygun]

See, Chimp is a leftist and he's happy about job losses.

Thankyou Chimp.

[AChimp]

Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue.

An extra $85 million for pilots is a drop in the bucket compared to the $3.26 BILLION in debt resulting from other sources. Labour is almost always the biggest expense for a company, and one of the easiest for large companies to play around with.

If Delta is having financial trouble, it only shows that they are poor negotiators, don't have good enough accountants to show the bad stuff in a good light or they are inept at attracting investors/customers. It's the free market at it's finest. :)

You work for them, Ronnie. Are you part of the union? I'm guessing that you aren't skilled enough at whatever you do to belong in one. Why don't you just go to your supervisor and ask for a pay decrease to do your part for the good of the company?

[Guderian]

If we would just collectivize agriculture and slaughter the kulaks, things would work out all right.

[davinxtk]

"Leftist leaning"


Like it's got something to do with being a fucking liberal.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Why don't you just go to your supervisor and ask for a pay decrease to do your part for the good of the company?

:lol

[mburbank]

I think 30% would be an appropriate offer, since you don't Lean left.

"Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue."

DAMN that leftist free market capitalism!

But hold fast, Naldo. maybe the government will bail you out again at tax payer expense, which by the way, I'm fine with. What about you, should my tax dollars save your job?

I'm not in the least glad Delta is going into bankruptcy. A lot of people could be out of work, and despite your gladhanding about the job situation, my bet is no one you work with will be too happy with the temp jobs and food service positions they'll need to take onece their unemployment runs out.

There's no reason at all to be happy about something like this. The only silver lining it could possibly have isn't there. Stuff like this should be a wake up call to people like you. But you'll sit there and blame the 'left' , be angry if you're asked to absorb a pay cut, happy if the government bails you out and mad if your taxes ever go up. You;ll use whatever safety net your entitled to (as wel you should) but it won't improve your attitude to anyone else forced to use it who isn't just like you. You'll bitch about unions if you forced to take a crap job, and if that job gets outsourced you'll find some way to blame it on liberals. So no, there's absolutely nothing to find joy in about what's happening to Delta.

You know I don't hope for you to loose your job, or take a benefit or pay cut. I don't even enjoy the irony of it happening while you crow about our great economy and desperately try to blame the left for getting thrown out into a market and economy lots of ppeopl have been dealing with the whole time you were making happy posts. There's nothing good about hard times.

[Ronnie Raygun]

HAHAHAHA! You guys are so hopelessly ignorant. Do you really think you know more about my company than I do?

"An extra $85 million for pilots is a drop in the bucket compared to the $3.26 BILLION in debt resulting from other sources. Labour is almost always the biggest expense for a company, and one of the easiest for large companies to play around with." - Chimp

That $85 million isn't even included into the $3.26 billion. That $85 million is from a pay raise that they've just recieved 11 days ago. What the article states is that we will be losing $85 million more in the next year because they didn't refuse the pay raise. Next time pay attention to what you are reading.

"If Delta is having financial trouble, it only shows that they are poor negotiators, don't have good enough accountants to show the bad stuff in a good light or they are inept at attracting investors/customers. It's the free market at it's finest." - Chimp

Not at all. It's because we have pilots who are paid 17% more than the next highest paid pilots in the industry.....25% higher that the average. AND THAT"S BEFORE THE %85 MILLION DOLLAR A YEAR PAY RAISE.... .and refuse to temorarily give back and save the company they work for. Management still wants them to be the highest paid in the industry...just not by such a large margin...not right now.

Personally, I don't care what they make as long as it doesn't start to effect other employees livelihood.

"You work for them, Ronnie. Are you part of the union?" - Chimp

No. The union was voted down a few years ago THANK GOD ...or else we'd probably all be out of a job. Right now, despite the threat of bankruptcy (which would be a good thing), most of our jobs are safe.

"I'm guessing that you aren't skilled enough at whatever you do to belong in one." - Chimp

WoW! You're not very compassionate for a socialist. Here you are, hoping that I lose my job "SO I'LL SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE!". In fact, you probably all are. Well, I hate to disappoint but Delta Air Lines has a lot of cash and even though "bankruptcy" is an ugly word, I'll be just fine despite you wishes.

Anyway, unions mainly promote poor workmanship and bad attitudes towards the company. And I've seen that from first hand experience.

"Why don't you just go to your supervisor and ask for a pay decrease to do your part for the good of the company?"

It's simply not possible for me do to so. There isn't a system set up for that sort of thing.

"I think 30% would be an appropriate offer, since you don't Lean left." - Max

Why is that, Max?

"Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue."

"DAMN that leftist free market capitalism!" - Max

As I've stated and as the article shows it has less to do with free market capitalism and more to do with the greed of a labor union.

"But hold fast, Naldo. maybe the government will bail you out again at tax payer expense, which by the way, I'm fine with. What about you, should my tax dollars save your job?" - Max

No. I don't think your tax dollars should support a failing airline at this point.

"I'm not in the least glad Delta is going into bankruptcy. A lot of people could be out of work, and despite your gladhanding about the job situation, my bet is no one you work with will be too happy with the temp jobs and food service positions they'll need to take onece their unemployment runs out."

Nobody that I worl with will lose their jobs. The only reason Delta will go into bankruptcy is to break the union contract with the pilots. It doesn't mean Delta will go out of business or anything like that. AS THE ARTICLE STATES, Delta still has about $2.45 Billion dollars. It would take us 5 more horrible years to go out of business. You have to remember that Delta made more money in the 90's than any airline in history mainly because we were the least unionized and because we had a great CEO, Leo Mullin.....who spoke on behalf of all airlines before the U.S. House committee just after 9/11....and that's why we still have so much capital.


"Stuff like this should be a wake up call to people like you." - Max

It does. It shows me just how greedy labor unions really are and how they give little regard to anything other than their pocketbooks. It also shows just how hypocritical the left is by not condemning the actions of this particular labor union.

"But you'll sit there and blame the 'left' , be angry if you're asked to absorb a pay cut, happy if the government bails you out and mad if your taxes ever go up." - Max

I don't know where you're getting this load of shit....It contradicts everything I've stated. You always do this. You set up a paper arguement and try to paint my name on it. Well, it's not going to work, Max.

"You know I don't hope for you to loose your job, or take a benefit or pay cut. I don't even enjoy the irony of it happening while you crow about our great economy and desperately try to blame the left for getting thrown out into a market and economy lots of ppeopl have been dealing with the whole time you were making happy posts. There's nothing good about hard times." - Max

Well, since you are so concerned Max I want you to know that in order for me to lose my job, Delta Air Lines would have to go completely out of business which is very, very unlikely....I'd say, almost impossible. I may take a cut in benefits but a cut in pay is very unlikely as well even though Delta ticket agents are the highest paid in the industry (by .01%).

So Max, all those scenarios you had planned for me can go right back where they came from.....in the shit.

As I remember, when you were having trouble and were worried about losing your job I didn't make snide comments and they try to cover them up with "I don't enjoy the irony blah". I didn't look at it as a political opprotunity for me to get over on you personally. I honesty took NO joy at all from your bad situation.

That's what separats you (and others on this board) from me....you have no true compassion or tolerance for someone who might disagree with you politically......As far as music, art, film, comedy ...almost any other topic I find here at I-Mockery, I find much agreement and harmony between myself and others.

So, what am I to conclude from this?

Either you are bitter people who find it easier to abide by leftist ideals or you have been made bitter by leftist propaganda. Whatever the case, I scoff at your attempt to take me down like a snarling pack of wolves whilst I'm in the middle of what YOU percieve as being a personal tragedy.

Sorry to disappoint you....and thankyou for exposing yourself.

[Nietzsche]

Now where's the dumbass that says "you got owned!"...
Oh wait, that's me now.

[The One and Only...]

When was agriculture de-collectivized? Agribusiness doesn't really exist.

[Jeanette X]

*snip*
Move along, nothing to see here.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"But Ronnie, I thought you said that the economy was strong?" - X

I did. And I was right....and as usual you sound like a moron.

[ziggytrix]

Management still wants them to be the highest paid in the industry...just not by such a large margin...not right now.

Personally, I don't care what they make as long as it doesn't start to effect other employees livelihood.


As I've stated and as the article shows it has less to do with free market capitalism and more to do with the greed of a labor union.

Sow hich is it? The labor unions greed or management's decision? It can't well be the labor unions fault that management WANTS THIS.


I don't know where you're getting this load of shit....It contradicts everything I've stated. You always do this. You set up a paper arguement and try to paint my name on it. Well, it's not going to work, Max.


Touchy, touchy.


Either you are bitter people who find it easier to abide by leftist ideals or you have been made bitter by leftist propaganda.

Commies! Damn commies everywhere! Trying to destory our purity of essence!

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Sow hich is it? The labor unions greed or management's decision? It can't well be the labor unions fault that management WANTS THIS." - Ziggy

I don't think I'm dumb enough to understand what you are saying.

[ziggytrix]

I'm saying it is Delta's management decision to have the highest paid pilots in the industry. Or rather you said it.

[Ronnie Raygun]

That was the deal they had before 9/11. Now if our government couldn't predict this from happening and stop the deaths of over 3000 people, how is management supposed to know?

If it weren't for 9/11, this wouldn't have been a problem.

[AChimp]

It's simply not possible for me do to so. There isn't a system set up for that sort of thing.
:lol :lol :lol

Knock on boss's door. Ask for pay decrease. System created.

[Ronnie Raygun]

They wouldn't do it.

It gets into all sorts of other areas such as retirement and things you probably have no knowledge of.

My boss, has nothing to do with my pay. It's a completely different department.

[AChimp]

So go to the accounting department. For the good of the company.

Or are you just greedy, like the leftist union chumps?

[Ronnie Raygun]

I'm not at all greedy and my comapny is not asking for me to take a paycut.

And it's not the accounting department...

[ziggytrix]

Ronnie, from the article you posted: "Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue. "

Labor Unions have almost nothing to do with this. Quit being a tool.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Explain your point.

[ziggytrix]

Ronnie, from the article you posted: "Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue. "

Labor unions have almost nothing to do with this. Quit being a tool.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Explain you point.

[ziggytrix]

Since 2000, Delta has posted $3.26 billion in losses mainly because competition reduced fares and revenue.

Look, would it help if I TYPED IT IN ALL CAPS?

[AChimp]

Ronnie, Ziggy is trying to tell you that Delta sucks because they spent too much money acquiring assets that they haven't even finished paying for yet and haven't attracted enough customers to help foot the bill.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Pre 9/11 there was no problem.

The pilots recieved the largest pay raise they ever had just prior to that.

Since then, they have refused to cut back that payraise or even stop scheduled payraises.

They make 17% more than any other pilots in the industry and 25% more than the average....and that's before the $85 million raise the got 11 days ago.

Delta has not aquired any new assets since 9/11.

[ziggytrix]

9/11 happened to all airlines, not just Delta.

[derrida]

Agribusiness doesn't really exist.

Can you support that statement? I think the American public can almost intuitively tell you that the model of the "family farm" is in decline. Shit, in 1993 the US census declared that it was no longer worthwhile to compile farm residency statistics, as the population was so small as to be inconsequential.

Tell me- where does food come from, then?


edit: I created a new thread for agecon faggery. thanks

[AChimp]

Dude, this thread isn't about agriculture. Don't let OAO threadjack another topic.

The filing said Delta has "significant obligations'' due next year, including $1.23 billion of debt. Delta also expects 2005 employee pension contributions of more than the $460 million paid this year and about $1 billion in aircraft financing.

Delta had $2.45 billion in cash as of the end of March, down from $2.92 billion three months earlier. It borrowed $225 million in the first quarter for regional-jet purchases and in February issued $325 million in convertible senior notes and agreed to buy 32 more of the smaller jets, valued at $780 million.

Nope. No new assets here.

Again, $85 million is nothing compared to $3.26 billion due to lost revenue. Maybe you're getting things confused because 85 is bigger than 3.26; I'll help make it a little clearer for you. $85 million is $0.085 billion. If Delta got to keep the pilot's pay raise, there'd still be $3.17 billion of debt.

As Ziggy said already, 9/11 affected every airline. You can't start blaming unions for customers deciding to use other modes of transportation. :lol

[Ronnie Raygun]

I'm SHOCKED at your stupidity, Chimp.

You know, I don't have a business degree either but it doesn't take one to realize that you have no understand of how business works.

You are mixing up all the numbers here.....you should seriously go back and read the article v e r y s l o w l y.

"Again, $85 million is nothing compared to $3.26 billion due to lost revenue." - Chimp

No. It's not.....

"Maybe you're getting things confused because 85 is bigger than 3.26; I'll help make it a little clearer for you. $85 million is $0.085 billion. If Delta got to keep the pilot's pay raise, there'd still be $3.17 billion of debt." - Chimp

It's so obvious that you are the one who's confused....

The 3.26 billion is money that has already been lost due to loss of revenues attributed to 9/11 and pilot pay raises. The $85 million how much MORE we are going to lose next year just from the pilot pay raise 12 days ago......so as you can see, it's completely separate.

HAHA! You're such a silly little ape.

"As Ziggy said already, 9/11 affected every airline." - Chimp

Yes it did, and unlike some we survived 9/11 thanks to the capital we have saved.

So what separates us from other major airlines other than the fact that before 9/11 we had more money than anyone else.

Exactly what I've been telling you.....the pilot labor union.

"You can't start blaming unions for customers deciding to use other modes of transportation." - Chimp

Well, other airlines can afford to droip their fares because their pilots don't make close to 20% more than any other pilots in the industry. If we didn't have that burden, we could afford to drop our fares a little.

[mburbank]

So here's what I'm confused about...

Wether You're right naldo, and it's all pilots faults, or Zig and Chimp are right and there are lots of causes, Delta looks fairly screwed.

How is it you're so secure? I'm sure you think I'm 'goading' you or 'baiting' you' becuase I'm an 'asshole' or maybe becuase I 'hate what America stands for', but I'm completely curious.

That's usually followed by you saying "I don't have to tell you anything. Figure it out for yourself".

My point is, you've always been optomistic about the economy, where as I've known a lot of folks who''ve had a really, really roough ride the last few years, when their companies went through the sort of thing yours i going through now. Several of those companies ceased to exist. What's your secret? Are you psychic? Where is your job security coming from?

[AChimp]

Ronnie, it is evident that you must also be completely unaware of how a business works. Have you ever taken a single accounting course?

The 3.26 billion is money that has already been lost due to loss of revenues attributed to 9/11 and pilot pay raises. The $85 million how much MORE we are going to lose next year just from the pilot pay raise 12 days ago......so as you can see, it's completely separate.

No, the article does not mention pilot pay raises. The $3.26 billion has been lost due to competition reduced fairs and revenue. Read the article v e r y s l o w l y. You do not lose revenue by paying your employees more; you reduce your profit. Revenue is how much money you take IN, and profit is how much money you actually make that goes towards paying for things. Profit can go towards paying off debts, but throwing $85 million at a $3.26 billion debt won't stem the tide like you seem to be implying. It's like trying to bail out the Titanic with a bucket.

Even if "pilot raises" contributed to 25% of the total debt load that Delta has, it would take 10 separate raises of $85 million each to reach that point. Ten raises in four years?

Giving the pilots a raise is not the cause of the problem, and it barely contributes at all compared to $780 million for new planes.
When you are facing massive downturns in revenue, you do not go out and buy buy buy.

Like Max said, Delta has much bigger problems to worry about.

Well, other airlines can afford to droip their fares because their pilots don't make close to 20% more than any other pilots in the industry. If we didn't have that burden, we could afford to drop our fares a little.
No, other airlines are just running themselves smarter. That's what capitalism is all about. Delta should become better at negotiating contracts if they don't like paying out raises all the time.

BTW, when I say "other modes of transportation", I'm referring to the fact that people are choosing OTHER modes of transportation, not just walking to the next kiosk at the terminal.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"No, the article does not mention pilot pay raises. The $3.26 billion has been lost due to competition reduced fairs and revenue. You do not lose revenue by paying your employees more; you reduce your profit. Revenue is how much money you take IN, and profit is how much money you actually make that goes towards paying for things." - Chimp

I've already covered this. ....but you refuse to pay attention.

We lost revenue because we couldn't afford to lower our fares because of the overhead we are paying out to the pilots. In short, the pilots have put us in a bind. You are looking at this from a completely simplistic point of view because that's all you can understand. Pilot pay effects all sorts of other options we might have other wise. Instead, of paying pilots...we could be using that money to attract customers by adding benefits to our Skymiles program, reducing fares, etc.

".. throwing $85 million at a $3.26 billion debt won't stem the tide like you seem to be implying. It's like trying to bail out the Titanic with a bucket." - Chimp

I agree. That's why they should also give up 16.5% of their wages help their comany survive while still remaining the highest paid pilots in the industry. That will stem the tide.

"Even if "pilot raises" contributed to 25% of the total debt load that Delta has, it would take 10 separate raises of $85 million each to reach that point. Ten raises in four years?"

The raise they got before 9/11 was much larger. Like I said before, it was the largest payraise in history for airline pilots. The 85$ million dollar raise was just a regularly scheduled payraise. When they got their contract they went from being a couple of % points behind United to beind 17% higher than United. You're just ignorant of the background.

"Giving the pilots a raise is not the cause of the problem, and it barely contributes at all compared to $780 million for new planes.
When you are facing massive downturns in revenue, you do not go out and buy buy buy. " - Chimp

It's not like Delta is blowing money and those assets are not yet aquired... therefore it's not a number you can use to prove your point. You have to have new airplanes to have a successful airline. It's a necessity....and at some point it will cost you more to in "up keep" and maintenence costs than it would to buy new airplanes. ....but you didn't think about that did you?

"Like Max said, Delta has much bigger problems to worry about." - Max

Like you, Max knows little or nothing about this situation.

[mburbank]

PSYCHIC NALDO! WHAT MAKES YOUR JOB SO SECURE!?! C'mon, man, I need to know where your optomism is coming from. It would help me understand things a whole lot better.

[mesobe]

wow.. a major airline with financial troubles. lets not talk about anything new or anything.


have fun working at McDicks

[AChimp]

Ronnie, your viewpoint has become biased because of all the lunchroom conversations you're heard on the topic. You can't blame Delta's situation entirely on the pilot's salary. If all they talked about was how much money they're losing because of bags of peanuts, you'd be posting about that in all-caps on here instead.

In all likelihood, they're probably also paying YOU too much (which is why you should ask for a pay decrease, ASAP. Encourage your ticket punching coworkers to do the same to show those dirty pilots who the real Americans are!). There's probably someone out there who'd do what you do with a big smile for half as much.

Why did Delta negotiate a contract like that has become so detrimental to begin with? Why did they hand the previous CEO massive bonuses and a seven figure going away present? It's survival of the fittest in a capitalist economy, Ronnie! If Delta is dumb enough to negotiate a contract that causes them to bottom out, why, it would have only been a matter of time before something else happened. If bad stuff didn't happen to dumb companies, the good ones wouldn't shine, would they?

This bankruptcy issue is a ploy to get the union to grant concessions. The union will laugh in their face and demand concessions in return (like contract extensions, which is what they wanted last year in exchange for a pay cut). Take a few courses on HR to find out all about it.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"PSYCHIC NALDO! WHAT MAKES YOUR JOB SO SECURE!?! C'mon, man, I need to know where your optomism is coming from. It would help me understand things a whole lot better." - Max

Read the article Max. We have 2 and 1/2 billion in cash and we're going bankrupt to break the pilots contract unless they give in.

Either way, we're in the clear.

If not for the pilots contract, there would be no other reason to go bankrupt because we have enough cash to keep operating for another five years or so......that's if we lose money for another five years...if not, it's irrelevent.

Plus, we have better management than any other airline.

[mesobe]

well.. thanks to the capitalistic Utopia that we live in, the fat cats at the top win while little shits at the bottom get squeezed into the toilet. I bet Delta even has a "dead peasents" insurance package... if Ronnie-boy gets killed by his stupidity on the job, his corpse buys the boss a brand new car.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Yeah! People here get killed with paper clips all the time!

[Emu]

Hey! Fuck you! My grandmother got her lung punctured by one!

[mesobe]

yeah well guess what!! you dont actually need to die AT work. you can waste away in your bed from some terminal illness, or die in a car or skii accident.

Its the wonderful democratic and free world we live in! vote bush!!

[Ronnie Raygun]

"you can waste away in your bed from some terminal illness, or die in a car or skii accident."- mesobe

Yes, you are right.

These things never happened before Bush took office.

[mesobe]

its what bush stands for you fucking idiot. You support a government who shits on you and laughs.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Yes.

Bush supports death.

....but especially terminal illness.

[mesobe]

Yes.

Bush supports death.

....but especially terminal illness.

what the fuck are you talking about?

[mburbank]

See what I was fishing for was to see if you had some job security beyond faith in your company.

I hope your faith is well founded. I think it would be great to work for a company and be able to place your faith in it and not get screwed.

[davinxtk]

Yeah, I sorta skimmed the rest of this thread, and definitely didn't really read much of it at all, but did he address how this has to do with the labor union being left-leaning?

[mburbank]

They have a UNION! That's practically communism right there.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Do union's lean left?

Yes.

[mburbank]

You mean Unions by their very nature are leftist, right? The act of unionizing itself is leftist, collective bargaining and all.

I agree. Solidarity was so far left they had to break it off with communism, which wasn't lefty enough for them.