Atrocities in Iraq

[Buffalo Tom]

"I killed innocent people for our government" (http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/story/9316830p-10241546c.html)

The things Sargeant Massey talks about in this interview made me physically ill. Bush has to fuckin' go. No, he not only has to go, he, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfovitz, Pearl, Cohen, Powell and all the government officials who actively facilitated this war should be put on trial for war crimes.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

looks like you may get your wish, Tom.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4999734/site/newsweek/site/newsweek/

Could Bush administration officials be prosecuted for 'war crimes' as a result of new measures used in the war on terror? The White House's top lawyer thought so

[mburbank]

Tom;

I wondered when stories like this would start coming out. I'm certain it's not like this for everyone, but for a lot of people it will be. A good friend of mine just got sent over with the reserves. I hope to God he never has to see what that guy saw. He's a colonel, a good decent person, just the type you'd want to be commanding soldiers. He's got two kids at home, his daughter is my God daughter.

And I think about the things he may be asked to do, or that he may have to ask other soldiers to do. Jesus jumping Christ.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Depleted uranium. I know what it does. It's basically like leaving plutonium rods around."

It doesn't help your credibility when you make stupid statements like this.

Why is this guy not in jail? Why has he not turned himself in for being a war criminal? Can we trust the word of an admitted war criminal?

This guy must have taken a page out of Kerry's playbook....

[mesobe]

"Depleted uranium. I know what it does. It's basically like leaving plutonium rods around."

It doesn't help your credibility when you make stupid statements like this.

Why is this guy not in jail? Why has he not turned himself in for being a war criminal? Can we trust the word of an admitted war criminal?

This guy must have taken a page out of Kerry's playbook....

why isnt bush in jail? why hasn't he just fess up for all of his fuckups?

and people do get sick from depleted uranium... since all heavy ammo uses depleated uranium for its wonderful armor punching properties... ginship ammo, rockets, tank rounds.... you name it.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"why isnt bush in jail?" - Mesobe

The same reason other innocent people aren't in jail.

"and people do get sick from depleted uranium... "

Prove that this guys statements are true, then. Do you agree with that DEPLETED uranium is the same as UNDEPLETED uranium?

[mesobe]

its not just one guys statement you asshole. After all your bullshit about sticking up for war vets in vietnam, you forgot to look over the first war in Iraq.

DEPLEATED uranium is unusable nuclear uranium.

you know, WMD!

[Ronnie Raygun]

Depleted uranium is not WMD. Depleted Uranium is what is left over when most of the highly radioactive types (isotopes) of uranium are removed for use as nuclear fuel or nuclear weapons.

[Sethomas]

Hey Ronnie, here's a lesson in physics for you:

When uranium decays to such a point that it no longer emits harmful traces of radiation, it is called "lead".

Dipshit.

[ziggytrix]

So since we can't safely dispose of it, we put it in the bullets we shoot at our enemies? Very clever! <instert mustache curl twirling here>

[Ronnie Raygun]

"When uranium decays to such a point that it no longer emits harmful traces of radiation, it is called "lead".

Dipshit." - Sethomas

So it's radiation you're worried about?

Depleted uranium is only slightly radioactive. As long as you don't ingest it, it's not harmful.

Your argument is reminiscent of other idiots here at I-Mockery and is simply untrue. Depleted uranium is about 40 % less radioactive than natural uranium. Depleted uranium emits two forms of radiation... alpha and beta. Alpha particles is the primary radiation produced by depleted uranium and guess what.......it's blocked by your skin....and if you don't have skin you have bigger problems to worry about. Beta particles are blocked by most clothing so if you are naked and you pick up a piece of depleted uranium you still have almost no chance of getting sick......now if you took it home and slept with it for a week you might get the same effect as if you lived next to some power lines. The amount of gamma radiation emitted by depleted uranium is very low. So, depleted uranium doesn't really do anymore damage than a tanning bed and certainly doesn't equate to uranium rods laying about.

Seth, I think your bowtie's a little tight.

[mesobe]

Depleted uranium is not WMD. Depleted Uranium is what is left over when most of the highly radioactive types (isotopes) of uranium are removed for use as nuclear fuel or nuclear weapons.


OMFG A GOLD STAR FOR YOU!

[Sethomas]

Alpha particles is the primary radiation produced by depleted uranium and guess what.......it's blocked by your skin....and if you don't have skin you have bigger problems to worry about. Beta particles are blocked by most clothing

:lol

God, you're such a fucking tool. If you had ANY scientific education whatsoever, you'd realize what horseshit this is. Have you ever heard of Rutherford's Gold Foil Experiment? I suggest you read up on it, it was a landmark in the development of atomic theory. Basically, it worked on the principle that any subatomic particle can penetrate virtually everything, including ten-foot thick walls of lead. However, the incidence of atomic nuclei present a diminished probability of penetration as the amount of transient matter increases. In other words, IT IS SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DECLARE THAT ALL PARTICLES ARE BLOCKED BY CLOTHING OR SKIN.

Here, you're a drone of the airline industry, so maybe this will sound familiar. I don't know if this is still in the air, but in the 70s it was considered a pilot's occupational hazzard that he was in a higher layer of the atmosphere for prolonged periods of time, and therefore subject to exposure to your beloved alpha and beta particles emitted by the sun. THESE THINGS PENETRATE THE STEEL LINING OF THE AIRCRAFT CABIN. There was some talk of putting in lead ceilings to eleviate this risk, but I don't know if that was ever carried out.

But, yeah. The moral is that brief exposure to small quantities of DU is statistically improbable, but not impossible, to cause free radicals or otherwise wreak havoc on one's physiology. HOWEVER, contact with high quantities of DU, or even prolonged exposure to a small amount (such as having it stuck within one's anatomy, as often happens in war), presents a sizable concern. So much so that only a fucking twat would dismiss the ethical concerns of using such an abommination.

Ronnie, you once again demonstrate that the only thing you can do is regurgitate bullshit fed to you by Republican mouthpieces. As far as science goes, I bet you still think there's such a thing as "Creation Science." :rolleyes

[mburbank]

I think anyone can agree that DU shrapnel would be a very bad deal. Breathing DU dust is also something I'd want to avoid. That being the case. The armies track record of being honest about the dangers radiation leaves some roomfor improvement. During the cold war we sent soldiers with no protective gear into Mushroom clouds in the Nevada desert. Far from thinking Radiation was safe, the purpose of sending them in there was to see how dangerous it was.

The army thought Agent Orange was perfectly safe, and in this case, I think they may have believed it for a while, just as it's possible they currently believe DU is safe.

Perhaps this guy should be in jail, concidering what he's confessed. I would think though, that you of all people would have more compassion for someone owning up to his sins. My assumption, though, is you think he's lying, or perhaps crazy. Who knows. If he's telling the truth it will all come out eventually, piece by ugly piece. My guess is there are no nice wars that are fought by the rules on either side. Even when war is fought as close to the rules as possible, it requires people to do terrible things that would surely damage any soul that was ever worth saving.

[Buffalo Tom]

Hey, Raygun, I guess this is a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black.

It doesn't help your credibility when you make stupid statements like this.

So, depleted uranium doesn't really do anymore damage than a tanning bed and certainly doesn't equate to uranium rods laying about.


If it is so harmless, then why would the Pentagon spend so much money producing ammunition containing depleted uranium? DU is obviously used to enhance the damage of ammo. Last time I checked, the Pentagon handn't yet commissioned a mobile tanning bed for use in the field.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"The moral is that brief exposure to small quantities of DU is statistically improbable" - Seth

I'm glad you could agree that it's not the same as what was stated in Tom's article. It's NOT the same as having uranium rods laying about. There seem to be differing opinions on whether DU is dangerous or not.

Thankyou Seth for referring me to the Rutherford's Gold Foil Experiment? I'm still reading it.

At this time it seems to be more of a political debate than a scientific one. Neither have the absolute facts....

[ranxer]

the D.U. issue is confused partly due to the odd ways the info is coming out and the stifling of investigation, such as the botched testing program on the soldiers and du testing facilities being shut down in U.S. and Canada. we will probably continue to have misquotes and misunderstandings about the du problems for as long as certain folks can confuse it.

d.u. rounds, rods, protective armor etc. don't cause anything like the harm that shrapnel and dust do, i don't think they are technically a wmd or a huge radiation problem or havnt proven to be so yet. until they are exploded, pierced, or used..

the DUST is the WMD! the shrapnel less so, i've heard of the dangers and the harmful dosages being pretty small .. here's one scientist's view:
(if this is anywhere close to being correct the use of du on 'enemies' is not just clever, it's diabolical.)

"Leonard Dietz, retired scientist, has estimated the radiation dose from a depleted uranium oxide particle in the lung as being 170 rem per year. 13 This dosage from a 2.5 micrometers diameter particle - small enough to be passed into the lung - is 34 times the maximum permissible dose for radiation workers and 100 times the permitted dose for the general population. The dosage from a 5 micrometer diameter particle - still small enough to be inhaled - is 1360 rem, 272 times the maximum permissible dose for a radiation worker. He notes that 'Until these doses can be related to a cancer risk factor, they must be viewed as qualitative indicators of danger, as red flags... the younger the person exposed to alpha particle radiation, the greater the risk that cancer will develop.' In both 1987 and 1990, the US Army issued guidelines on the handling of DU munitions and DU contaminated vehicles. It includes instructions to fire-fighters that they must wear 'self contained breathing apparatus, protective clothing, and gloves when approaching a burning tank... to approach the tank it should be upwind of any smoke coming from the tank''14 No such guidelines have been passed to Iraq."

i'd settle for amnesty for the criminals in our government behind this stuff if we could just get it to STOP. and that includes the direct attempts to use false intelligence to get our military to commit atrocities on civilians for war escallation and profiteering..

[Ronnie Raygun]

How much "dust" does one DU shell produce?

[VinceZeb]

Didn't Raxner try this stupid argument about a year ago and admit that the DU shells weren't hurting anyone?

And oh man, one guy said he is killing innocent people for his goverment! That must mean that George W. Bush is a war criminal!