***Kerry, once again, proves himself an idiot***

[Ronnie Raygun]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040714/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_iraq_dc_1&printer=1

Kerry Didn't Read Iraq Report Before Vote -- Aides

By Adam Entous

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic candidate John Kerry (news - web sites), whose campaign demanded to know on Wednesday whether President Bush (news - web sites) read a key Iraq (news - web sites) intelligence assessment, did not read the document himself before voting to give Bush the authority to go to war, aides acknowledged.

"Along with other senators, he was briefed on the contents of the NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) by (then-CIA (news - web sites) Director) George Tenet and other administration intelligence officials," said Kerry spokesman Phil Singer.


Kerry's campaign has challenged Bush to say whether he read the complete intelligence report before deciding to go to war, or whether he just read a one-page summary, which Democrats say gave him none of the dissenting views included in the full version.


The Kerry campaign stepped up the attack on Wednesday, sending out an e-mail with the headline, "Did anyone in the White House read the full National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq?"


In a conference call organized by the campaign, Senate Intelligence Committee Democrat Richard Durbin said Bush should have read the 90-page report issued in October 2002.


Asked if Kerry read it, Durbin responded, "I don't know."


Singer said the issue was not whether Kerry read the intelligence assessment himself, but why the White House had refused to release the one-page presidential summary.


"The bigger question is why ... the president -- the commander-in-chief, who decided when and how to take us to war -- won't share this document with the Congress," Singer said.


The National Intelligence Estimate concluded Iraq possessed chemical and biological weapons but noted dissent from the State Department's intelligence service and other agencies.


The Bush campaign has accused Kerry of "flip-flopping" on the war.


The Massachusetts senator, who voted for the congressional resolution authorizing Bush to use force in Iraq, has since charged the president rushed to war without adequate international help or a plan to win the peace.


At campaign stops in Minnesota and Wisconsin, Bush attacked Kerry for expressing pride in having voted against an $87 billion funding bill for Iraq.


Durbin criticized the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate. He said it was prepared in just three weeks instead of the customary six months.


"It was done in a hurry so that the vote would take place in October before the invasion of Iraq. And now we know that there were many aspects of that National Intelligence Estimate which were inaccurate," Durbin said.

[Stabby]

Kerry's campaign has challenged Bush to say whether he read the complete intelligence report before deciding to go to war, or whether he just read a one-page summary, which Democrats say gave him none of the dissenting views included in the full version.

If that makes Kerry an idiot (and I do think it is pretty disappointing that the people we elect can't take the time to look over something this important), but what then does that make Bush? If he didn't read it either, like I'm betting he didn't, especially when he was the one who made the ultimate descision to go into war. What's higher than idiot?

[ScruU2wice]

double idiot.

You're gonna see the word "flip flop" alot out of conservative mouths through out this campaign.

[El Blanco]

Well, since it seems to apply, why not?

[ScruU2wice]

cuz flip flop doesn't sound sophisticated enough to be repeated a million times :posh

[GAsux]

When I was younger I thought the idea of sex and vaginas was disgusting. When I got older, and learned more, I changed my mind.

I used to hate veggies too. When I got older, I learned and experienced more, and changed my mind.

I used to think the state I live in sucked the biggest cock in the world. Then I moved to Georgia, and I changed my mind.

What a dirty horrible flip flopper I am. How dare a person change their points of view! Completely unacceptable. If a person thinks all blacks are crack dealing thugs, they should never be allowed to change their minds. Damn flip floppers.

[El Blanco]

Small difference.

John Kerry, as part of the Senate intel Comitee, had access to the same info Bush had and voted for the invasion.

I'm fairly certain you went through several experiences and personal changes that forced you to switch position on several issues over the course of years.

What was in the info Kerry saw those 2 years ago that is different today? Nothing. Nada. Zip.

He's playing off emotion and trying to appeal to the anti-Bush crowd, when in fact, he was one of W's biggest supporters.

Its one thing to feel you were mislead and then change your mind based on new information. That is growing and learning. Its something else to change position because you think its the in thing.

[GAsux]

Truth be told I don't spend much time in the Kerry household so I really don't know what makes or made him change his mind. Gee whiz, if he voted for the war in the first place, and then decided several months later that spending an additional $87 million or whatever was a bad idea and not part of what Congress signed on for in the first place, he clearly must have voted against the additional spending because it was "the cool thing to do" and not because he felt it was wrong.

[mburbank]

I think it's really bad Kerry didn't read it himself. I thought it was really bad he voted to give a guy look W the authorization to make war. I wish had someone I respected more to vote for instead of a President who sent people to die to vote against.

I think it's pretty clear W. didn't do the reading either. He had adviser read it for him, just like Kerry.

What a country. We're number one.

[mburbank]

Okay, having read into this a wee bit further, I'm confused.

The NIE is a document written expressly for the president. As far as I can tell, it is a one page document, and while they may have been briefed on it's contents, the Senate doesn't have access to it.

The Kerry campaign wants it released so people can see what it said, and the white hiouse is refusing, just as they did prior to the leaking of the NIE titled "Ossama Bin Laden determined to attack inside United States". After the info became public, their argument that the NIE in question said nothing about Bin Laden's interest in attacking inside the United states seemed... somewhat thinner.

The NIE in question is not the 93 page back-up paper. It is a one page summary.

Can anybody sort this out for me? And I don't mean their opinion, I mean can anyone find a source that says who's talking about what?

[ScruU2wice]

It's sad that people are going to vote for kerry just because he isn't Bush...

[Sethomas]

Yeah, I too think it's sad. So is the death of cows, but hey, I loves my beef.

[kellychaos]

"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing. And in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all."

For those of you who need the Cliff Notes, that means that it is always wise to keep an open mind so as to constanly continue learning rather than the black and white, tunnel visioned mentality of our current commander-in-chief. When, as in the case of Kerry and other like senate voters at the time, the administration paints you a slanted picture of intelligence reports that you do not have access to and then asks you to vote, how would you vote? If you then learn more information about the subject later that allows you to have a more educated opinion and causes you to change your mind, is that "flip-flopping"? Alright then, give me the flip-flopper!

Besides that, Bush himself admitted that he didn't really make intelligence agencies a priority early in his administration and often attended only the crucial meetings before 9/11. Yes, he said that.

[ArrowX]

least he s a bit" smarter than bush :(

[ranxer]

bush and kerry are both corporate wankers, I heard the wives of kerry and edwards are saying some decent things.. maybe i'll campaign for the presidential wives this time. hmm.. i guess i'll take Hienz over Haliburton.

i look at bush vs kerry as two candidates that will be driving us toward a cliff.. kerry however will be driving us a little slower.

[vechron]

Thanks for your last post mburbank; it's nice to see how all the bushites disappeared after you posted it.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

It's sad that people are going to vote for kerry just because he isn't Bush...

it's called choosing the lesser of two evils

[El Blanco]

Thanks for your last post mburbank; it's nice to see how all the bushites disappeared after you posted it.

Disappeared? Hey, genius, read his post. He was looking for objective information about some very confusing statements. It was neither pro-bush nor totally anti-bush.

Of course, I don't see anyone on the left answering the question either.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Do Congressmen and women read everything they're given? No. Do they vote for bills that often force them to COMPROMISE their own ideological values? YES. Did the Congress clearly read the USA PATRIOT Act? No. Do elected officials instead hire staffers and interns to read legislation for them? YES. Ask anybody who has interned in a state or DC office. Sometimes representatives can't even recall what it is they had voted on that day. Is this utopian and deliberative? NO, but it's reality, and trying to single-out John Kerry for it is sad, pathetic, pointless, and irrelevant (in other words, the typical shit that Raygun posts here for his lord and savior, George W. Bush).

There is also a distinct difference between the decisions an EXECUTIVE makes, and one a LEGISLATOR makes. Senator Kerry is in a position where the decisions you make, and the votes you cast, can effect later legislation that he might propose.

President Bush has no such level of accountability. Like Max said, he initiated the bill. It's actually kind of funny-- by exploiting the fact that Kerry "didn't read" the bill, it almost sounds like a GOP confession that the bill was weak, and had Kerry even taken a cursory glance of it, he would've clearly votedagainst it. So, if Kerry is lazy, then Bush is just plain stupid. I can live with that.

Finally, I really think we should just ignore Raygun's posts. They ae pointless drivel, which are at best board spam, and at their worst ar just the desparate rantings of a GOP wonk. The Bush team is running scared, and most polls show him down, so irrelevant shit like this will become a volleyball for them. Don't buy in to it.....

[ScruU2wice]

it's called choosing the lesser of two evils

Too bad it's not called "choosing which cantidate you like" instead of "Choosing the cantidate that is the opponent of the cantidate you hate."

[Pub Lover]

Careful Saad, that's Communist talk, you might get Blacklisted. :eek

[ScruU2wice]

:chatter

[El Blanco]

Is this utopian and deliberative? NO, but it's reality, and trying to single-out John Kerry for it is sad, pathetic, pointless, and irrelevant

Kev, I would agree with you except for one thing. Kerry was on the Senate Intel Comitee. The whole point of that group is to go over all the inteligence with a fine tooth comb. If he didn't do that, he didn't do his job.

Its very relevent.

[ArrowX]

it's called choosing the lesser of two evils

Too bad it's not called "choosing which cantidate you like" instead of "Choosing the cantidate that is the opponent of the cantidate you hate."


Yer Startin to sound red and by that I mean you'd preffer a hammer and cicle over a hamburger

:gtareference

[pjalne]

Kev, I would agree with you except for one thing. Kerry was on the Senate Intel Comitee. The whole point of that group is to go over all the inteligence with a fine tooth comb. If he didn't do that, he didn't do his job.

Its very relevent.

It's called 'relevant', people. It's not relevent, relivant, rellavant or rilivant, it's relevant.

when I see a simple word like that misspelled five times a day, I get pissy >:

[pjalne]

it's called choosing the lesser of two evils

Too bad it's not called "choosing which cantidate you like" instead of "Choosing the cantidate that is the opponent of the cantidate you hate."


Yer Startin to sound red and by that I mean you'd preffer a hammer and cicle over a hamburger

:gtareference

How the hell is that communist?

[Preechr]

Okay, having read into this a wee bit further, I'm confused.

The NIE is a document written expressly for the president. As far as I can tell, it is a one page document, and while they may have been briefed on it's contents, the Senate doesn't have access to it.

The Kerry campaign wants it released so people can see what it said, and the white hiouse is refusing, just as they did prior to the leaking of the NIE titled "Ossama Bin Laden determined to attack inside United States". After the info became public, their argument that the NIE in question said nothing about Bin Laden's interest in attacking inside the United states seemed... somewhat thinner.

The NIE in question is not the 93 page back-up paper. It is a one page summary.

Can anybody sort this out for me? And I don't mean their opinion, I mean can anyone find a source that says who's talking about what?

Post story from a year ago - Bush didn't read it (http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=1577&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported)

The person in charge of preparing the document was weapons expert Robert Walpole.

(...According to the Independent of London, Walpole has a track record of tailoring his work to support the preconceived conclusions of his superiors. “In 1998, he had come up with an estimate of the missile capabilities of various rogue states that managed to sound considerably more alarming than a previous CIA estimate issued three years earlier,” the newspaper will report. “On that occasion, he was acting at the behest of a congressional commission anxious to make the case for a missile defense system; the commission chairman was none other than Donald Rumsfeld ....” Independent, 11/3/03 )

Tenet briefed the Senate Intelligence Committee (and John Kerry) on the upcoming NIE on Sept 24, 2002. The NIE was officially released on Oct 1, 2002. The Senate (and John Kerry) voted on Oct 11, 2002 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq (if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.) The SOTU address was delivered on Jan 28, 2003. Thwar started Mar 20, 2003. The NIE was de-classified on July 18, 2003. At that point, it was admitted that neither Rice nor Bush had read the entire report. July 14, 2004... a year later... this is somehow news.

HAVE A NICE DAY.

[Pub Lover]

How the hell is that communist?
I made an absurd joke, & ArrowX decided he could be 'clever' too, & top me. :(

Sometimes I think my stupidity opens the door for the rest of the idiots. >: