SUVs=terror

[KevinTheOmnivore]

proceed. :)

[Protoclown]

GOD NO, PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!!! :(

[Ronnie Raygun]

Address the issue of hybrids and why the so called "pro-environment" crowd is silent in comparison to it's anti-SUV scam.

[mburbank]

Adress the issue of selfishness, greedyness, and the relationship between poor gential self imge and huge car ownwership.

[Carnivore]

Ronnie, you're such an ass. I am as much for promoting hybrid cars as I am against SUVs. The thread wasn't started by me. The thread is about SUVs. Don't try to change the subject to avoid the issue. Don't ask why we're fighting evil instead of promoting good.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I was the first person here to say anything about hybrids and I would hardly call myself an environmentalist.

You, Max or any body else ever mentioned it. Which exposes this whole issue as class warfare.

[mburbank]

I don't see anything wrong with Class warfare, although your logic in arriving at that point is so shoddy it bespeaks rapidly detiriorating mentality. Class warfare is waged every day, and by any standard the lower classes are loosing.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I was the first person here to say anything about hybrids and I would hardly call myself an environmentalist.

You, Max or any body else ever mentioned it. Which exposes this whole issue as class warfare.

You are crazy.

[roonTing]

The new Mercedes SUV classifies as an ULTRA-LOW EMISSIONS VEHICLE.

Or are we all crying becuase we can't afford one yet? :(

[Blackjack]

What exactly does SUV stand for?

I figure they are what you call off-road vehicles, Land Rovers and the like that don't see much off road action outside of the Walmart parking lot?

[ranxer]

Supremely Unnecessary Vehicle :)

id like a small hybrid designed to overturn SUV's .. something like out of deathrace 2000 haha.. dont get to close you gas Guzzling soccermom, ill tip yas right over...

[cenamalo]

screw SUVs, screw hybrids, AND BRIGN BACK TH E YUGO!!

[Miss Modular]

What exactly does SUV stand for?

More objectively, Sports Utility Vehicle.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

So, does Bush really believe in what he said at the SOTU, or was he jusy paying lip service....?

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/05/politics/05FUEL.html

Hydrogen Cars Remain Decades in the Future Under New Budget
By DANNY HAKIM


DETROIT, Feb. 4 — The Bush administration plan to spur development of hydrogen cars does not envision mass production until 2020. The plan also says there will not be enough research and installations like fueling stations to decide whether the technology is commercially viable until 2015.

Details of the initiatives were laid out in the 2004 budget, which was released yesterday and included $273 million for research into hydrogen fuel cells, as well as in material from the Energy Department.

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The proposals include research on whether nuclear and coal power could be used to create hydrogen, a strategy that environmental groups say would undermine the benefits of hydrogen cars. But more money would go to renewable energy.

Fuel cells generate electricity through a chemical reaction of hydrogen and oxygen, and many automakers see the technology as an eventual replacement for the internal combustion engine. Cars that run on fuel cells would have water vapor as the sole tailpipe emission. The overall emissions would be dictated by how the hydrogen was produced.

President Bush will offer further details of the plan on Thursday in a speech at the National Building Museum in Washington. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham will give a speech here on Friday on the policy.

The administration plans to spend $1.7 billion over five years on two projects, the FreedomCar, to explore making the technology work in cars, and FreedomFuel, which will study how to produce, store and deliver hydrogen. The military is also researching fuel cells.

Among the goals would be a demonstration fleet of fuel cell vehicles. Last year, Toyota and Honda set up such fleets in California. Next year, $19.6 million would be spent on possibly using onboard re-formers to strip hydrogen from gasoline and $28 million would go to research cheaper and more efficient fuel cells.

Money would be earmarked to research internal combustion engines fueled by hydrogen instead of gasoline, a technology that BMW and Ford have explored.

The administration has tried to court environmental groups by briefing them about its initiatives, but the groups are increasingly skeptical.

"They need another zero on the end of their figures if they are serious about realizing the promise of fuel cell vehicles," said David Friedman, a senior expert at the Union of Concerned Scientists.

The 2020 production target would send effects of the program far into the future, Mr. Friedman said.
"The average lifetime for a car is 15 years," he added. "So that's 30 years before this program will significantly effect our oil dependence."
-30-

[Ronnie Raygun]

Yeah! And what was the repsonse from the left, Kevin?

...............which explains my point once again.

Class warfare is wrong. It's not right for any political party or cause to pit one group of people against another. We are all Americans.

[Vibecrewangel]

SUVs do equal terror. Mostly because the people who drive them seem to be the biggest idiots on the rode.

The tailgate - usually about 4 feet between themselvs and the vehicle in front of them. While doing 80.

They weave back and forth in the lane as is they are gonna find some magical room to pass the car they are following.

They zip in and out of lanes cutting people off and barely keeping from rear ending the people in front of them.

They get out of a lane doing 65 and into the fast lane where they do 66. At least until someone gets in front of them, then it's back on the ass trying to pass.

They actually honk at you if they want to pass. Even if you are doing 80. Then, once they pass they drop to 65 again.

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Mostly because the people who drive them seem to be the biggest idiots on the RODE."

Nice quote.

Thanks for proving my point that it's all about class warfare.

Moving on. ...

[BombsBurstingInAir]

Hydrogen was used in the Hindenburg 8-)

Don't knock SUV's. Just think, the quicker we burn up all the gas/oil, the quicker we will be forced to use more environmentally friendly fuels. Then Bush will be broke!!! Isn't that what you all want???

Just a thought.

[Ronnie Raygun]

They only care about the Bush being broke part of it....

[BombsBurstingInAir]

I know. So much envy they have.

[Carnivore]

You are so right! I want to get rich by manipulating the media and government and drive something the serves no real purpose but to flaunt my rich status.

Much fucktardedness have you.

[BombsBurstingInAir]

You said it, not me.

[Anonymous]

You, Max or any body else ever mentioned it.

I did, several times, in the old thread. But your rose-tinted goggles probably blocked it. :(

[george]

i dont care one way or the other about SUV's except i find them ugly.

if i had my druthers i would be driving a 1971 Chevy Impala and using as much fuel as possible.

but i am all for developing hydrogen powered/hybrid vehicles just because i would like to get our country out of having to give a shit about the middle east for anything more than humanitarian reasons.

still, i think the whole class envy argument is not valid. i dont envy anyone dumb enough to pay over 12,000 for a car. that is just stupidity. so i guess i pity them.

[Systemz]

My thing about SUVs is that as they have spread like a plague worse than the Plymouth Voyager craze of the early 90s people like my Mom are starting to pine for them. She just sold her Volvo S70 for a Honda CRV. She didn't even bother to get a serious SUV - she went with a deadbeat car. That gives ME terror.

[Stabby]

There was a good Washington Monthly article a few weeks back that stated why SUV drivers are such assholes: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14839.
SUV owners are frequently "nervous about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors and communities. They are more restless, more sybaritic and less social than most Americans are."

Aside from the fact that the nations SUVs guzzle more oil than its aircraft carriers. "Me like oil," Gee-dubayah Bush once told me in private. Well we all know why we're going to war, but SUVs also kill a great many more passengers than they save. They crush other cars, and study after study proves they themselves have shockingly high fatal rollover rates and lethal side-impact dangers. And, given the horrible visibility from SUVs, their drivers have a rather unfortunate habit of running over their own children in the driveway. True. Research has proved that a tank like the two-ton Chevy Tahoe kills 122 people for every 1 million models on the road; by comparison, the Honda Accord kills only 21 per 1 million such vehicles.

[Vibecrewangel]

"Mostly because the people who drive them seem to be the biggest idiots on the RODE."

Nice quote.

Thanks for proving my point that it's all about class warfare.


I don't think that being an idoit has anything to do with class warfare. All classes have their idots. And SUV drivers are in an idiot class of their own.

As for RODE - It's called a typo. You make quite a few of those yourself Ronnie.



George -
I spent over $12000.00 for my car.......am I a bad person? 8-)

[roonTing]

Strange that a 2 ton vehicle kills more people than one nearly half its weight. The '57 Chevy was known as a roll over beast at its time. So what? They are just another form of transportation. A more useful truck. Big shit. Stop bitching and save your money to buy your own.

[Malevolent]

If I had a million dollars, I wouldn't even consider buying an SUV.

[roonTing]

Neither would I... But with 40 to 60 grand, I may.

I would waste a million on a super car... or a classic... Bugatti maybe.

[Systemz]

Hell for a million bucks I don't think I'd be pitching in for an Escalade. How about a nice Volvo S60, with the whole package? And a nice house with a heated garage to put it in?

[Vibecrewangel]

More useful truck?

Most SUVs have shit for cargo space.

[Ronnie Raygun]

It's not about I-Mockers being envious of actually owning an SUV. But these liberal Mockers just hate rich people and this is just another way (not unlike smoking in public) that they can attack the freedoms of the average American.

If they were really concerned about the environment and terrorism they would be talking more about hybrids or hydrogen cells like Bush is.......which is a slap in the face of big oil might I add.

But getting back to my first point. It's not going to stop. It's going to get worse to the point where liberals will suffocate. And not from the fumes of any SUV, but their own ideals and not being able to relate to the average American.

Bring on the future.

[Vibecrewangel]

And pray tell, what is the "average american"

[Vibecrewangel]

Personally, I could care less if people want to buy an SUV. Hell, a friend of mine owns an Avalanche, a Viper, a Prowler and a new Thunderbird. All cars that are far more expensive than most SUVs. If you've got the cash and that is where you choose to spend it go right ahead.
Though I do agree that we need to have cleaner more fuel efficient vehicles world wide.

My problem is the fact that the people that tend to buy them also tend to be the most dangerously aggressive people on the road.

[Ronnie Raygun]

That's crap.

By the way, a viper burns just as much if not more gas than an SUV.

[Vibecrewangel]

What is crap?

What is an average american?


And I am well aware that the Viper is not fuel efficient. My point, that you completely ignored, is that my opinion has nothing to do with money or the fact that they are not environmentally sound.


My point is that regardless of if they have the money to own 10 SUVs or saved and starved to own 1, the people that drive them tend to be more aggressive on the road. Perhaps it has nothing to do with status, but with the fact that SUVs symbolize an aggressive attitude. And that has nothing to do with wealth.

[Carnivore]

I neither hate rich people nor do I object to people earning wealth through honest work. I do object to wealthy people earning even greater wealth through manipulation of the government and media. I also believe that with greater wealth comes a greater responsibility to your fellow human beings who are in need.

[Vibecrewangel]

Carni -
Agreed.

I really don't care how much (or how little) money a person has. It is people who act like they are above everyone else, above the law and above common decency because of their wealth or their car even their trophy spouse that I have problems with.

"I'm rich, I should be able to run over as many children as I want" - Mr. Burns

[KevinTheOmnivore]

It's not about I-Mockers being envious of actually owning an SUV. But these liberal Mockers just hate rich people and this is just another way (not unlike smoking in public) that they can attack the freedoms of the average American.

How can you breath under all that bullshit? Where does a Liberal like me stand on the smoking issue, Ronnie? It's not about class warfare, it's not about hating "rich" people. Grow up, and PLEASE stop listening to Rush Limbaugh.

If they were really concerned about the environment and terrorism they would be talking more about hybrids or hydrogen cells like Bush is.......which is a slap in the face of big oil might I add.

Bush isn't serious about it (read article above). He was doing it to soften the blow on what are otherwise terrible economic and foreign policies.

But getting back to my first point. It's not going to stop. It's going to get worse to the point where liberals will suffocate. And not from the fumes of any SUV, but their own ideals and not being able to relate to the average American.

Bring on the future.

:lol

You're such a silly bastard. Do you still see yourself, with your views, as being reflective of the "average American"???? That's a riot. :lol

[Ronnie Raygun]

OH! And I guess YOU do!!!

HAHA!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

No, I don't. I see myself as an individual in a nation that prides itself on individualism. I see myself as an American who embraces the pluralism and diversity that we share here. You on the other hand try to lump everyone into categories, you use the mythical crutch of the "middle class." You are far more guilty of using class warfare than anybody else, but the sad thing is that you aren't even conscious of it.

[Ronnie Raygun]

OOOH! How clever....

Use my own arguement against me? The people you support lump people into groups and pit them against one another. You know....the smokers....the blacks....the whites....the rich....the poor....the SUV drivers.

Class warfare can only weaken us as a nation. Is that what you want Kevin?

....and don't bring up the smoking argument because I know we agree on that.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

The people you support lump people into groups and pit them against one another. You know....the smokers....the blacks....the whites....the rich....the poor....the SUV drivers.

Lets stick with the SUV drivers for the sake of the argument. The people who are critical of SUVs are critical towards the environmental and safety issues involved. I don't care WHO is driving that car, I care about the CAR.

But you on the other hand, much like your golden God El Rushbo, claim that it's an attack on the middle class. Are you trying to say that only white suburbanites could possibly be the target. Why Ronnie? Can't a lower-income black female w/ two kids afford an SUV if she REALLY wants one???? Isn't this AMERICA???? Wy are you partaking in class warfare????

Class warfare can only weaken us as a nation. Is that what you want Kevin?

Moot point. Class warfare has already been declared, by you, by Rush, by our president, etc. etc.

....and don't bring up the smoking argument because I know we agree on that.

Exactly. Don't bring it up because you know it disproves your "class war" theory of the Left. :lol

[KevinTheOmnivore]

"That's what Jesus said to do," Mr. Snesko said. "I figured I needed to start doing what Scripture tells me to do, which is help people in need. Where would America be without SUVs in this mess? ... It was unfair for them to come down on SUVs the way they did. I feel extremely vindicated today."

:lol This is like something from The Onion! :lol

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20030218-28182385.htm

SUV owners get chance to be good guys
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

A volunteer army of SUV owners rolled through the area's snow-covered streets this week to help doctors and nurses reach their jobs — and improve their unpopular image

"I really can't believe the outpouring of the volunteers," said Jackie Hubbard, a staffing assistant at Prince George's Hospital Center. "We've had to turn people away."

Mrs. Hubbard said about 30 drivers in sport utility vehicles gave rides to hospital staffers and that roughly 100 more drivers called but were not needed.

"They could be doing a lot of things on a day like this," she said. "They could be next to the fire reading a good book or lying in their bed. I know that's what I'd be doing."

More than 20 area hospitals, nursing homes and hospices asked for help delivering essential staffers — and in some cases patients — as nearly 2 feet of snow made roads too slippery and clogged for most cars.

Many hospital administrators said they got help from citizens with SUVs."It's an amazing display of volunteerism," said Dr. Richard Goldberg, vice president of medical affairs at Georgetown University Hospital, where about 50 SUV owners volunteered.
The efforts come at a good time for owners of SUVs, or four-wheel-drive vehicles.
In the past few months, critics of SUV'shave become increasingly strident. A series of advertisements on national TV accused SUV owners of helping terrorism because their gas-guzzling vehicles support oil-producing Arab countries linked to terrorism.
One advertisement showed people sitting in SUVs saying: "I gassed 40,000 Kurds," then "I helped hijack an airplane," then "I helped blow up a nightclub." The ad ends with them saying in unison, "We did it all by driving to work in our SUVs."
Another ad proclaimed: "The biggest weapon of mass destruction is parked in your driveway."
Among the more outlandish of the commercials was one by the Evangelical Environmental Network that asked, "What would Jesus drive?" The group also said Christians should not drive SUVs because they harm the environment.
Still, Phil Heuschen of Arlington felt pretty good yesterday about owning an SUV.
Mr. Heuschen, 26, started driving staffers and patients to Inova Alexandria Hospital on Sunday at noon, went home at 2 a.m. and was on the road again yesterday at 9 a.m.
He said the roughly 40 volunteer drivers developed a sense of camaraderie over the two days and reveled in each other's snow stories.
He also said the volunteers talked about how their efforts might stop people from questioning their transportation choices.
"If it wasn't for SUVs, people wouldn't be getting around," Mr. Heuschen said.
Tony Snesko, 56, of the District was untroubled by the "What, would Jesus drive?" campaign against vehicles such as his. He and his wife, Valerie, spent Sunday delivering meals in their SUV to people dying of AIDS for the group Food and Friends.
"That's what Jesus said to do," Mr. Snesko said. "I figured I needed to start doing what Scripture tells me to do, which is help people in need. Where would America be without SUVs in this mess? ... It was unfair for them to come down on SUVs the way they did. I feel extremely vindicated today."
D. C. Mayor Anthony A. Williams yesterday asked for SUV volunteers to assist with emergency operations in the city. Drivers who can help are asked to call 202/727-1000.
-30-

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Lets stick with the SUV drivers for the sake of the argument. The people who are critical of SUVs are critical towards the environmental and safety issues involved. I don't care WHO is driving that car, I care about the CAR."

I'm not talking about you personally. I'm talking about the movement as a whole.

"But you on the other hand, much like your golden God El Rushbo, claim that it's an attack on the middle class. Are you trying to say that only white suburbanites could possibly be the target. Why Ronnie? Can't a lower-income black female w/ two kids afford an SUV if she REALLY wants one???? Isn't this AMERICA???? Wy are you partaking in class warfare????"

I never said it was an attack on the middle class....I said it was an atack on the wealthy.

"Moot point. Class warfare has already been declared, by you, by Rush, by our president, etc. etc."

How?

"Exactly. Don't bring it up because you know it disproves your "class war" theory of the Left."

Cigarettes? When did I ever say that?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'm not talking about you personally. I'm talking about the movement as a whole.

"My movement" doesn't give a damn whose kids are playing soccer, or whatever. It's the environment, stupid!

I never said it was an attack on the middle class....I said it was an atack on the wealthy.

So then lower-middle class to middle class people can't own these vehicles...? Why?

"Moot point. Class warfare has already been declared, by you, by Rush, by our president, etc. etc."

How?

I dunno, by tax cuts that do nothing they claim to do, by standing against a living wage, by opposing a national health coverage, by abandoning our public education systems, etc. etc. etc.


Cigarettes? When did I ever say that?

huh?