WHAT'S YOUR PLAN B?

[mburbank]

As a reasonable person, I'm working on mine. It's my ferevnt hope, even prayer, that Kerry win the election, but like anyone with half a brain approaching a critical situation, I have, of course concidered other outcomes.

Imagine if the administration had made a Plan B for what the might do, how they might react, if we were not greeted as liberators with flowers and sweets, if Iraqi oil did not pay for it's own reconstruction, if there turned out not to be any weapons of mass destruction.

Imagine if looking at Iraq as it stands now, the doncidered the possability that it might not turn out to be a self governing demcoracy, a beacon of hope in the middle east which would begin a domino fall leading to a glorius Pax Americana? What if they made a plan for what we might do if the country collapsed into civil war, or Taliban Style law was instituted?

Plan B's aare good. I'm making mine. What's yours, everybody?

[conus]

What if they made a plan for what we might do if the country collapsed into civil war, or Taliban Style law was instituted?


Our country or Iraq? If you mean Iraq, it doesn't seem to me as if there was even a plan A. As much as I hate George Jr. I don't believe he entered the presidency with an Iraq agenda, other than if given the opportunity he would take military action. Seems to me as if he really is as reactionary, shortsighted and incompetent as he seems. Once it gets as bad as it inevitably will, or at least too close for comfort, he'll probably hand it over to the United Nations.

[mburbank]

I don't think the UN will take it from him. They MIGHT take it from Kerry, if we ponied up a whole lot of cash.

But on to my personal plan B. I've got two daughters and a genetci legacy that says survivors know when to emmigrate. But... I'm inclined to stick it out a little longer. We currently retain the right to fight from within, Grover Norquists long range plan for a one party sytem isn't there yet and I believe the Republican tendency to overplay their hand even when it's really strong (see Newt Ginrich) is still a factor. If W wins (and I mean fair and square) I'll suck it up, accept he's my President and hang in there. As I stated several months ago, I think the silver lining to a Bush victory is it has the potential to go Nixon. A Kerry victory while it's what I want will be very hard to sustain. He'll be walking into a horrible mess and the Republican Money machine will be looking for ways to keep McCain and Juliani (too uncontrollable, too unpredictable) down while placing Jeb in the drivers seat. The only thing that could actually crush neoconservatism would be a Bush victory, and I really do think that 4 more years would cause it too implode beyond repair. Unfortunately, it will use up a whole lot of innocent lives and more money than America wil make in a generation before it does so.

And Naldo, if you read this far without the words going all fuzzy from too much concentration, don't bother saying I'm in a panic. I posted this exact same argument months ago.

Anybody else? What's YOUR plan B if the election doesn't go the way you want it to. Say, how about you Naldo? Do YOU have a plan B?

[Brandon]

I'm not quite sure what the premise of this thread is, Max. :/

Are you asking what we, personally, would do if the election went sour?

[Spectre X]

I plan on becoming far more cynical and negative than I already am if Dubya wins. :(

[MRogers]

First let me just say that I'm undecided on who I'll be voting for this fall, so I don't exactly have an official "Plan B." Either way, here are my thoughts on both candidates.

A:
If Bush wins again, I'm afraid that our economy might not be able to handle an on going war in the middle east and I'd hate to see the national debt go up even more (if possible!). I'd hate to see more lives lost over this war (American and Iraqi) and a nation so divided. And I'm afraid that my social security might be gone before I can use it. On the other hand, however, I'd feel safer. Bush keeps American Saftey as a high priority, so of course I value that as an American. To me, saftey is a key issue. If my family is dead because of a hijacked plane or a car-bomb, I don't think i'd care about anything else from that point and on.

This is an extremely hypothetical situation and slanted (slightly ;) ), but try to be honest with yourself.
Max, what if one day you get the phone call that one of your daughter's (or both) school has been taken control of by an anti-american group and they are making demands that you know won't be met. Schools being held hostage is now becoming the new "trend" and you know . Do you regret your Kerry vote or not.

B:
If Kerry wins, I hope that all the things the left has said about W is right. I hope Kerry will re-build alliances but keep threats to America off American soil, I don't want to see an appeaser in office. I hope the economy makes the turn for the better and I hope that peace will be a reality. Unfortuneatly, I think Kerry will be a one term president (if he makes it). The left uses W as a scapegoat for too many things and swears if he's gone then the nation will be so much better off. I just don't think Kerry will be the man that could pull off half of what he says he'll do.

I'm not against a change in the presidency, I just don't think John Kerry is worth replacing Bush just for the sake of getting Bush out of office. I don't think Kerry will do much, although I'm hopeful. I don't want bush in office, but given the choices I have to lean towards bush right now.

[Preechr]

As an habitual Libertarian vote-thrower-awayer, my whole life is Plan B. I screwed around and voted for a Republican Governor once, just because I thought it would be funny to see Georgia with the first one of those in 100 years (though it wasn't funny... bad me) and then voted for a Democrat Congressman to cancel it out. Both of them won, and I gotta say, it was fun to be on the winning team for a minute.

Either way, no matter who's the next Skull-n-Boner to be in charge on November 3, they can't eat us all at once, and most of us will find a way to go on living just fine. On that fine, future Wednesday, I will drag my sad ass out of bed and go to work because neither John F Kerry nor George W Bush will ever feed my dogs. If I don't do it, they will eventually die... or eat me.

I'll check the paper that morning, though, to see if Badnarik got at least 10%. To know that 10% of my fellow Americans voted against the two-party system, against oppressive and invasive government, against legalized discrimination, against the war or against taxation without representation will probably make me smile and possibly a little hopeful for the future.

I called this election a wash months ago, and I still say we're in for FOUR MORE YEARS. ...after the inevitable months ( at least weeks, but I'm thinking months ) of post-election legal wrangling to bring back all those warm and fuzzy memories of 2000. Meh. I'm looking forward to Hillary vs. McCain in '08. Between those events, I suppose a lot will happen overseas and most things will stay the same here. Bush will privatize this and subsidize that and we'll somehow wind up deeper in debt but no one will care because no one can imagine a trillion. Winning the election will surely give him a clear mandate to continue ignoring everything that's going wrong, but hopefully Saddam's trial will save the Iraqi elections.

Sometime before 2008 this country will be attacked by terrorists again, no matter who's in the White House. The simple fact is that terrorism as a tactic is still effective and it is still being used as a weapon... Plus, we are no more secure today than we were 4 years ago, as security is just impossible. There will be no post-9/11 hugging and global warmness after the attack this time, however. It will be a bitter day in America when it happens, and the President will be the guy that let us all down. After all, the one who wins is the one that was most convincing when he promised to protect us all, right? Those that voted for Bush will regret it and the Kerry crowd... do you think they'll still support him or will he go the way of AlGore?... will be right there to say I told you so. Swap their names around and the sentence works both ways. My question is: Who would want that job?

[ziggytrix]

Damn, but I hate to agree with Preechr. :(

As for a plan B, I'm still young and poor, but I'm working on a pretty marketable skillset, and I've always thought it would be cool to live and work in a place like London - not that their political situatuion is much better than ours, but I hear the nightlife is better. :P

[AChimp]

My Plan B is to move to Canada.

[ziggytrix]

But Canada's full of fuckin Canadians. :/

[Sethomas]

I hate responding to these threads, but the MRogers guy said something that made my head hurt. Nothing about Bush's policy thwarts terrorism any more than the democrats' agenda would, and historically he's proven by his actions that terrorism is not the priority he claims it is. If the American people honestly think that engaging in one of history's most unpopular wars and pissing off the entire Arab world will STIFLE terrorism rather than throw gasoline on the fire, then the American people are fucking retarded.

[ziggytrix]

An American is smart; Americans are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, my plan B is to emigrate, though what with starting a business I don't know how feasible that option is.

[ziggytrix]

MORE AMERICAN JOBS GOING OVERSEAS! >:

[Cosmo Electrolux]

My Plan B is to move to Canada.

I'm moving in with Chimp....but no sex >:

[AChimp]

Fine, no sex. But you can't live with me unless you spoon with me. >:

[Preechr]

Hopefully, one day, we'll get enough good, honest judges on the Supreme Court to ban awful, gay innuendo like that. Those damn Democrats are blocking any new appointments and were stuck with these damn activist judges that are too wrapped up in getting homosexual innuendo good and STARTED instead of finally getting it STOPPED... like better activist judges would surely do.

[AChimp]

I only have two sides, honey. You'll have to wait until tomorrow night.

[Preechr]

I'M NOT A WHORE, DAMMIT!

SHOW ME SOME RESPECT!!!

[Miss Modular]

The only thing that could actually crush neoconservatism would be a Bush victory, and I really do think that 4 more years would cause it too implode beyond repair. Unfortunately, it will use up a whole lot of innocent lives and more money than America wil make in a generation before it does so.

If W gets a second term, I have a feeling Dick Cheney will die in office. Then that's when things would really implode.

[Stabby]

First let me just say that I'm undecided on who I'll be voting for this fall, so I don't exactly have an official "Plan B." Either way, here are my thoughts on both candidates.


I'm sorry, but I just don't get how people can still be undecided at this point to who they'll vote for and I'm slightly worried about what would be neccesary to change an undecided voter right now. I keep hearing how "Kerry isn't that different from Bush" and yes, i get it from the stance that Democrats and Republicans aren't ALL that different and it's not as drastic as a Socialist against a Republican but these two men both have VERY different views on the issues. One favors corporate polluters rights and expensive drugs and cut backs on scientific research and gigantic tax cuts for the wealthy and lax education reform. You really have to look at them both and try to imagine how the world will look after four years of their leadership. Do you want a president who insists that the economy is strong despite high unemployment rates and one who insists that Iraq is going well and getting better and that we are currently safer as a country despite intelligence from his own administration telling him different? And I think people who believe that Kerry is somehow just going to "lay down" on the issue of terrorism or U.S. saftey is insane. And if that is your belief, or if you think that there isn't much difference between Bush and Kerry than I think you haven't really been paying attention. You could think Bush has a BETTER approach to the problem, I would argue different but I think you need to actually understand how both view the issue, not just go "Bush is for our safety and Kerry isn't" because I think that is a terrible fallacy. In all the presidential elections I've seen in my life I think this is one where the difference between the two is huge.

Whoever wins though is going to have to face a huge mess that may take more than a decade to fix, both overseas and at home. I think an important question is wheter you want to go with the party that dug hole (either intentionally or unknowingly is debatable) or put in new party that at least will admit that the hole is there.

[Preechr]

OR VOTE BADNARIK!!!

THE ONLY ANTI-WAR CANDIDATE!!!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

nader is anti-war, and he is polling higher than Badnarik. ;)

[mburbank]

This thread has two points. One is to taunt Naldo, as his sureness that Bush will win and unwillingness to even consider the possability of a world in which that doesn't happen reminds me of this administration to even concider a world where everything about Iraq didn't turn out as they predicted. I think the complete lack of any sort of plan B ever about anything is the deffining trate of the Rabid Noe Con, and the consequences are devestating. So I mock it in Ronnie. As you can see he has no response.

But, I am also curious as to how all of us, regardless of our political bent will react if the candidate we want does not win. In that respect, this thread hs been illuminating.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

Fine, no sex. But you can't live with me unless you spoon with me. >:

well...okay, but no tongues! >:

[Zhukov]

I know how you feel about the whole "living in a Plan B" thing Preechr, but do you have a Plan A?

I haven't really got a good Plan A.

[Preechr]

nader is anti-war, and he is polling higher than Badnarik. ;)

Haha... while it's true that polls can say anything, don't you have to discount something for respondents that are too dumb to realize the guy they "support" has a 92% chance of not even being on the ballot in their state?

Sorry, but Nader is not even running for President. Yes, the Rasmussen poll I was talking about before turned out to be flawed, but I'm gonna stick to my guns on Badnarik being the ONLY anti-war ACTUAL candidate. Polls that give credence to Nader's campaign only reflect the ignorance of the voters to reality and won't be reflected in a massive number of write-in votes for the guy on Nov 2.

[conus]

I don't really have a plan, but recent events have prompted me to renew my passport, which lapsed a couple of years ago.

[Preechr]

I know how you feel about the whole "living in a Plan B" thing Preechr, but do you have a Plan A?

I haven't really got a good Plan A.

Not a realistic one, I suppose. Like you, my ideal future would involve some sort of revolution or major catastrophe. I try not to think about it too much, as doing so just makes me bitchy.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Sorry, but Nader is not even running for President. Yes, the Rasmussen poll I was talking about before turned out to be flawed, but I'm gonna stick to my guns on Badnarik being the ONLY anti-war ACTUAL candidate. Polls that give credence to Nader's campaign only reflect the ignorance of the voters to reality and won't be reflected in a massive number of write-in votes for the guy on Nov 2.

You really need to clarify all of this. You should ask the Wisconsin Democratic party if Nader is running. Or maybe the Florida one, or the Pennsylvania one, or the Michigan one, and on and on.....

And I don't particularly care how many ballots Badnarik is on. It never amounts to much.....

[sspadowsky]

Plan A: Kerry wins, I stick around a while to see if and how things shape up. If the outlook is good, I stay.

Plan B: Bush wins, I stick around long enough to see if Max is right, and the Bush admin undergoes a Nixon-like implosion. If the outlook is good, I stay.

If not, I sell all my shit and find another country.

[mburbank]

While I plan to remain in the US (speciffically New England) unless the country truly leans toward Fascism, the appeal of a country that has never been a world power, or a country who's glory days are behind them (but not too far behind, like say Iraq) is clear.

Here's a question. Surely one day (some think sooner than others) America's power on the world stage will begin to decline. Nothing lasts forever, after all. Do you think we'll accept that with relative grace (England) Go kicking and screaming (Germany, Japan) or get snuffed (Rome) .

[Zhukov]

Snuffed. But in a good way.

I don't think anyone would think that the US would go out quietly.

[sspadowsky]

You're right about our inevitable decline, Max. And I think it may happen within my lifetime. I think that we've gotten too big to do anything but fall apart from the inside out. Barring some massive alliance of a whole bunch of countries against us, I believe that's how it'll go down.

If I sound like I'm rooting for this, it's just that I find the idea intriguing. We've become so big, so powerful, and so arrogant, that we've developed the same immortality complex that, I'm sure, was the downfall of many an empire.

[Brandon]

Here's a question. Surely one day (some think sooner than others) America's power on the world stage will begin to decline. Nothing lasts forever, after all. Do you think we'll accept that with relative grace (England) Go kicking and screaming (Germany, Japan) or get snuffed (Rome) .
Kicking and screaming. Definitely.