I'm sorry I don't have faith in you system

[FartinMowler]

I still think Jimmy Carter was a very good president and is still alive to pull your piece of crap country back into a viable commodity. If you think about it, your a festering pile of crap and I have to smell it. Canada's dollar is rising again and your becoming more and more unemployed. I'm a fucking grass cutter and make more money than some of you highly intelligent :rolleyes sheep and you still let your country be controlled by fucking puppets. Reagan was a cunt and Clinton was there to smell it, so wake up and smell the coffee boy's and make some noise that your being fucked up the butt having to only choose two fuck head candidates that couldn't tie there shoe laces if they tried.

[Killer Manatee]

Ha... hahahahahahaha! Did you just insult OUR intelligence?







:lol

[FartinMowler]

I had a dream about a Manatee last night http://www.i-mockery.net/viewtopic.php?t=14880

If you think that the whole world doesn't think that your "American" society is fucked compared to my country then your a fucking jerk off. Your society is a kid with his pants around his mid section holding a string for a leash on his Pit bull.

[Crying Baby Jesus]

Thats funny I didn't think PMS was an STD.

[Killer Manatee]

I'd normally agree with you, FARTINMOWLER, but you're an extreme douchebag with a horrible grasp on the english language.

[FartinMowler]

You can't normally agree with me :/

[davinxtk]

Martin, wtf?
Do you seriously think that many Americans have much faith left in our system?
You're not telling us anything we don't know, you're just trying to be a condescending prick.

[FartinMowler]

:lol I even like Ross Peroit more than those to dinks.

[davinxtk]

Honestly, after the debates I like Kerry a little more than I did before... but all that means is that I won't feel completely horribly guilty voting for the jackass.

[FartinMowler]

It's the irony of choosing which is more useless than the other.

[EisigerBiskuit]

vote for al sharpton

[davinxtk]

What's worse is we have to choose the more useless one, because he'll be less detrimental.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

It's threads like this one that'll have me registered Republican before the month is out......

[Zhukov]

Canada is almost as bad. I hate all your stupid countries, and my own.

[Sethomas]

As the first black woman president of the Ku Klux Klan, I'd like to say, "AMERICA STINKS!"

[Jeanette X]

Well no shit Fartin. What is your fucking point? Do you really think we don't know how fucked we are right now? Or you just trying to be an asshole?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

lock thread, lock thread!

[FS]

Someone should tell Fartin to stop posting while drunk. Then again, then he'd probably not post at all, or turn out to be a gentleman and a scholar.

[davinxtk]

I'm going to go for the easy kill here and say, "At least a gentleman."

[FartinMowler]

:) I was just being a prick after watching that stupid debate. I havn't had a drink for a few weeks because of my flu :/ I can finally breath through my nose today :rave I just can't believe that the polls actually put Bush and Kerry in a close race.

[Zhukov]

So you're a spineless flip-flopper?

[Burger Lord]

I don't think you understand how completely and totally devoted the Bush fans are here, there really dosen't seem to be much of a middle ground where he is concerned. People think that he truely is the second coming of Jesus and is the greatest leader the world has ever seen or ever will see until the end of time, or they hate him so much you'd think he personally raped and killed their mother or something. Strange thing is, these two groups are almost perfectly divided 50/50. It seems most of the Kerry fans are Kerry fans because of their hatred for Bush.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Our candidates may not be the best there is, but there is one better than the other which is chosen by the masses.

It's not the best system possible, yet it's a system I support and believe in, and it's improved as time passes. Though I do not support Bush to continue being president, if he is chosen by a majority, I have to support that because I am only one person....and he will be done by '08 thank God.

[conus]

It's not the best system possible, yet it's a system I support and believe in, and it's improved as time passes. Though I do not support Bush to continue being president, if he is chosen by a majority, I have to support that because I am only one person....and he will be done by '08 thank God.

I haven't believed in this system for a long time. I don't believe in majority rule, because the majority in this country just isn't good enough. A majority in this country still don't understand the difference between Sadam Hussein's secular government and the Islamic extremists who hated it. The majority in this country are so ignorant that to allow them the vote is insane. The average Joe in the United States really is some beer swilling lout who beats the shit out of his wife and hates nigras and chinamen. Why in the world should people like that be allowed even a small part of such an important decision making process?

[Preechr]

Well, I don't think I agree that the MAJORITY of Americans are just like that, but I'll go with you on the concept that in the most powerful country in the world we ought to be a bit more discriminating on who we let vote. We live in a country where the government has seen it as necessary to take over education and effectively ruin it in order to take advantage of it's Democracy. Our system is designed to produce progressively stupider people, yet the power of America is steadily growing. We are increasingly placing more and more of the world's power into the hands of increasingly less qualified people.

To me, that's a problem.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Wow. I thought the days of advocating that the snobbish rich educated persons being the only ones allowed to vote were done with.

I think that most don't give enough credit to people being able to choose what they think is best for them.

[Preechr]

I'm not all that jazzed up about Democracy being defined as everybody selfishly voting for their own best interests, but you seem like a reasonable person and I'll work with the assumption that you didn't intend to come off that way.

As for the first part, education is "free" in this country. Why would you assume people would have to be rich to be educated? ... unless I'm right, and we get what we pay for.

[conus]

That Bush is less qualified is exactly what appeals to many voters. He ain't like one of them fancy college boys.

I would like to see voting qualification tests-- something like an S.A.T., but you would have to pass within the top ten percent. If you didn't pass, then you could spend the next year reading and preparing for next year's test. There's plenty of information available in this country. If you remain willfully ignorant, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[FS]

I'm not all that jazzed up about Democracy being defined as everybody selfishly voting for their own best interests, but you seem like a reasonable person and I'll work with the assumption that you didn't intend to come off that way.

Um... that's pretty much what happens in a democracy, yes. At least, people aren't going to vote for the guy with the tax plans that affect them negatively just because he's going to use that extra money for the betterment of the people as a whole, for instance. And when you tally up all those voices, you get a rudimentary understanding of what the majority of people want.

[FS]

I honestly think the only thing that could knock some sense into the election process would be to shake up the two-party system. I think that people would vote much more consciously if they could take their pick from a dozen candidates. And I think it would force the people to put more thought into their choice. It might knock down the percentage of people that actually come out to vote, but I don't really think it's a bad thing that the only people that vote are the ones willing to put thought into it.

I'm not saying I know how it can be done. But some political reforms are definitely in order. Maybe if people get sick enough of political candidates trying to sue their way into the White House - assuming, just for kicks, that it's going to happen again this year.

[Preechr]

Read this. (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/nealboortz/nb20040924.shtml)

Give it a shot.

[Preechr]

Well, I actually meant to post the link to this:

The dumbing down of America

May 28, 2004

After 35 years hosting a talk radio show I’ve become habituated to being labeled as everything but a child of God. Offensive? Certainly, sometimes. Insensitive? You bet! Guilty as charged. Life is insensitive, so is the truth. I don’t hide from either.

Well, this column ought to certainly stir the puddin’. I wish to make an observation that I dare say most of you are going to find both offensive and insensitive. I really don’t expect to make any friends here, but I may just cause a few people to think for a few minutes.

One day in the late 1970’s I asked my listeners to call and tell me what they thought was the most important thing that they had learned listening to talk radio. At some point during that show a caller turned the tables. He asked me to share the most important thing I had learned hosting a talk show. My self-editing mechanisms were on the blink that day – not an unusual situation – so I immediately blurted out the first thing that came to mind. I told the caller that the most amazing thing I had learned was how truly stupid the American people are. Sorry folks. It’s was just the first thing that came to my mind. Maybe it would have been better if I has said “obtuse” instead of “stupid.” At least then the truly stupid ones wouldn’t have understood, and I might have kept a few listeners.

Well, sad to say, not much has happened in the twenty-something years since that particular program to change my opinion. While it’s no longer true for the bulk of talk radio listeners, I’m afraid it still stands as true for the rest. The majority of Americans can’t tell you who the vice president is. Not two out of ten Americans could tell you the name of their two U.S. Senators and their congressman. Examples are plenteous. Most Americans, for instance, actually think that the United States is supposed to be a democracy. It’s not. New Mexico, by the way, IS a state.

My opinion was reinforced last week when I heard that a Fox News Opinion Dynamics poll found that a huge majority of Americans think that our economy is growing worse. What have they been smoking? Our economy grew at a 4.4% rate during the first quarter of 2004, and these people think it’s in the tank? Employment numbers are up. Manufacturing is up. Government revenue is up. Incomes are up. Home sales are up. Home ownership is at record levels. Poverty is down. The truth is that our economy is doing amazingly well … and poised to do even better; yet the majority of Americans don’t realize this? The forecast for economic growth for the current quarter is between 4.5 and 5%. With these numbers, how do you say our economy is doing poorly? Maybe it’s because so many of these people rely on Entertainment Tonight for their daily news. You do know, don’t you, that more Americans get their news from Entertainment Tonight than from any other single news source.

Let’s cut to the chase. I’ve come to the reluctant but inescapable conclusion that about 50% of the adults in this country are simply too ignorant and functionally incompetent to be living in a free society. They have enthusiastically abandoned their sovereignty to the lure of the welfare state. They are, in fact, afraid to be free. They have no working concept of the responsibilities of individuals who would live free of government tyranny or mob rule. Their ignorance renders them incapable of coping with the responsibilities of liberty. These are people who cannot exist at anything other than a basic level without someone else stepping forward to take care of them. They’re adult children. They need to and deserve to live in a dictatorship, hopefully, for their sake, benevolent.

The real problem here is that the rest of us are constantly suffering encroachments on our own freedoms to provide for the survival of the ignorant. We’re forced to invest (if that’s the word) 15% of our paychecks into a disability insurance and retirement plan that would constitute criminal activity in every one of the 50 states were it not run by government. We must do this, we’re told, because there are just too many people out there who aren’t bright enough to do it on their own. We’re facing the inevitability of socialized medicine. As soon as the social Democratic party gets its way, with no small amount of help from the Republicans, Americans will be waiting months -- if not years – for basic elective surgery. Private citizens will be sent to jail for trying to find a private doctor to treat their ills outside of the approved and official government plan. Freedoms are being lost because of political pandering to those unable to cope.

Solutions? You want solutions? Look, I just came here today to grumble. I’m just tired of seeing rampant widespread stupidity tear down the greatest attempt at self-government in the history of world civilization. Maybe a separation of government and education might help. Perhaps we could restrict voting privileges to those who have a clue. There’s certainly nothing in our Constitution that would prohibit that. One thing is for certain, as the ranks of the clueless increase, as more and more Americans opt for security over freedom, as more people surrender their individuality for the ease of running with the mob, the erosion of the liberties, social and economic, that made this country what it is will proceed apace.

Maybe it’s just time for a good escape plan.

[conus]

Private citizens will be sent to jail for trying to find a private doctor to treat their ills outside of the approved and official government plan.

Really? But, aside from sounding like a nut, this guy seems to equate ignorance with disagreement with his views. And knowing who are your congressional representatives doesn't mean that you're not generally ignorant.

[Preechr]

No, not generally so... but maybe willfully ignorant enough that the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer for the effects of your ill-considered vote.

It would be like not letting Brittney's marriage affect your own commitment to your spouse.

It would be like many things normally considered fair.

[punkgrrrlie10]

I'm not all that jazzed up about Democracy being defined as everybody selfishly voting for their own best interests, but you seem like a reasonable person and I'll work with the assumption that you didn't intend to come off that way.

As for the first part, education is "free" in this country. Why would you assume people would have to be rich to be educated? ... unless I'm right, and we get what we pay for.

Education is not free. I'm talking about college. High school doesn't teach you jack shit about anyting unless you go to a private college where all the rich kids are sent by their rich parents. Poverty is inherited and so is wealth. Money begets money.

Since most public schools are based on a tax base of the surrounding area, even the "free schools" are based on how wealthy the area around them is, so again, the poorer areas are underfunded and the children living in those areas get a lesser education. Anyone who walks into an inner city school after walking through the halls of a beverly hills high school can easily see the distinctions.

But the purpose of voting is to pick what you think is best, whether you vote for yourself or the country as a whole is again a subjective interpretation done by the person themself and each person is given the right to pick what they want - it's called freedom and everyone should get their say.

[punkgrrrlie10]

*edit: private collete = private college prep*

[conus]

No, not generally so... but maybe willfully ignorant enough that the rest of us shouldn't have to suffer for the effects of your ill-considered vote.

I agreed with that part. As I stated earlier I wouldn't mind voter qualification tests, but they would have to cover more than whether or not the prospective voter knew the names of his or her representatives. I don't think requiring high scores on an SAT-like test is particularly eletist. Even if it is, so what? A majority of German citizens became convinced that the Nazi party had the answers. I don't know if statistical information is available, but I'll bet that the same majority didn't exist among well-informed Germans.

[Preechr]

High school doesn't teach you jack shit about anyting...

Amen. Seriously.

Most Americans have no more education than that, and most of those folks floated through high school.

I don't think you are a typical Democrat. In my experience, you'd not be arguing like this if you were: ...it's called freedom and everyone should get their say.

Using your own comparison of Beverly Hills and normal schools, can you not see that uneducated freedom is different than the kind where you understand your options and power?

[punkgrrrlie10]

I think that the whole term "ill-considered" vote is based on a disagreement with the vote itself rather than the underlying rationales.

Being text book educated does not make someone intelligent. I've met geniuses in my field who couldn't change a light bulb; People with PhDs who couldn't change the oil in their car. Does that make them more qualified to make decisions for everyone? There are some people who are extremely educated about abstracts who would never function outside of that if someone took all their money and degrees away and told them "here, go survive on McDonald's salary and live in the ghetto."

The whole process of the vote is to get a sense of what is best for everyone and that only comes from having a perspective outside your own. You never truly know it until you've been there.

[punkgrrrlie10]

High school doesn't teach you jack shit about anyting...

Amen. Seriously.

Most Americans have no more education than that, and most of those folks floated through high school.

I don't think you are a typical Democrat. In my experience, you'd not be arguing like this if you were: ...it's called freedom and everyone should get their say.



I'm actually not a typical democrat in that I believe that all sides have merit somewhere or people would not support that opinion. I listen to both sides and come to my own conclusion and I'm more central than anything but I have more democratic leanings and people are comforted by labels and so I choose that one to best represent myself.

[The One and Only...]

I dunno about that statement regarding highschool. I've learned quite a bit about world history and mathematics, and I'm only a sophomore.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

High school doesn't teach you jack shit about anyting...

Amen. Seriously.

Most Americans have no more education than that, and most of those folks floated through high school.

i blame Richard Nixon, personally. :(

In fact, anybody with a ".gov" in their URL should just die! >:

[punkgrrrlie10]

I dunno about that statement regarding highschool. I've learned quite a bit about world history and mathematics, and I'm only a sophomore.

I'm sorry but I don't believe you. Wait about 10 years and then look back and make that statement. Again, you won't know until you've experienced it.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I believe him, cuz he's proactive and clearly intelligent (or at least inquisitive). Public education is really good at telling you what to learn, not necessarily at teaching you WAYS of learning. OAO seems like an active, rather than a passive, learner.

[Preechr]

I personally have shown someone with a doctorate how to change their own oil. He appreciated the experience so much that I wound up showing him how to change his own brakes.

Natural intelligence is truly a matter of luck. The desire to learn stuff is not. A high IQ doesn't necessarily equate to higher intelligence. IQ is just a measure of potential. A dumbass that tries really hard to be smart can out-shine a naturally gifted person that rests on her laurels. I know I give those folks more credit.

Either way, what was "intelligent" 20 years ago would no longer even pass as well-thought-out. Intelligent is constantly evolving. You have to keep up. I'm not so sure that simply being born smart is enough to guarantee intelligence of the sort I'd feel comfortable as a qualification for voting rights... at least in this country. Too much is at stake here. To know what you're doing, you have to have more than just a passing interest in what's going on in politics.

Honestly, would you feel so bad living in an America where uninterested idiots didn't get a chance to elect our presidents? I'd be happy with a follow up question to each vote: "Why?"

If you vote for Bush and your answer to that is "2 SUPORT OUR TOOOPS!" I say we just pat you on the head, smile and send you out the same door we sent the guy that voted for Kerry because he's not Bush. ...as we tear up your ballot. You still get an "I voted!" sticker, for what it's worth.

Is there room for corruption there? Sure.

Is our current system not corrupted? No.

I say we cull those that would vote for stupid reasons. Does that make me evil?

I hope not.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

"You are not the only one in the country that knows right from wrong. Most of us do, in fact, the vast majority of us do."

[The One and Only...]

Public education is really good at telling you what to learn, not necessarily at teaching you WAYS of learning.

Ah. Now I see what PG means.

[Blake Stamper]

Oh come on folks, we gotta have a littel faith, I mean a little fate is what made this country in the first place.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

that sums it up for me.

[Preechr]

"You are not the only one in the country that knows right from wrong. Most of us do, in fact, the vast majority of us do."

The best and worst thing about you is your memory.

Knowing right from wrong is not the same thing as being aware of when you're being lied to by someone that does it for a living and has a terrible interest in getting you to believe him.

I've not yet said not everyone should be allowed to vote, just that there should be qualifications for the privledge. It's similar to my preferred method for legalizing drugs or immigration. Do it intelligently.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Well, I see both sides here. On one hand, being someone who is working to register and mobilize 18-24 yr. old voters, I often encounter people who make me say "Wow, I hope that douche bagel doesn't vote."

However, there is a good bit of research that says ultimately, Americans make rational voting decisions. I think this could be soidly argued. Most who actually go to the polls vote for the two parties. Perhaps they do this because they want to have the guy who promotes at least 25% of their agenda win, rather than voting third party for a gy who promotes 100% of their agenda.

Furtermore, many of those who don't vote do so because they feel too disconnected, to uninformed to cast a proper vote. This could be viewed as a responsible vote on their part.

I dunno, the theory has holes, but there's some credence there. I think some of us, particularly those who like the third party idea, often suffer from a severe case of "majoritarianism." We've thought out what we believe so well, that we can't BELIEVE that EVERYBODY is on the same page!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I meant "isn't" on the same page....

[Preechr]

I'd buy that.

I've told you that I believe most people are libertarian. Like me.

That means either I'm crazy or right.

I'm betting on right, but I know I might be wrong.