Abcdxxxx
Mar 10th, 2003, 01:43 AM
Kevin : "Last I recall we ended our discussion on a disagreement, I said that Zionism as defined by Herzl and others was greatly enforced by nationalism. "
Zionism and Herzl are not exclusive, yet you and others constantly use the term as some sort of code, or to suggest a mindset. It IS nationalism, but not in this dark conspiratory manner that you suggest. If you've ever talked about Zionists as a single united body you are speaking with bigotry. If you ever have talked of Zionists being responsible for specific events, as a united body, or idealogy, then you are misinformed and speaking with a bigoted tongue. Herzl was one voice of many key to the creation of the Zionist movement...a movement designed to provide Jews with a secular homeland. The Zionist movement is incredibly diverse in comparison to something like the African Nationalist movement which rarely gets blamed for instigating tensions in a region full of turmoil in it's own right. It gets singled out in a way that other naionalist movements, or religious homelands never do. That's wrong. When you interject Zionism out of topic, it's code. You're speaking of Jews. Yo're shifting responsibility on an ethnic group. The same people who point fingers whenever someone is being ethnocentric are often the first ones out with scathing remarks about Zionism with this notion that there is a "secret history" to expose. A dark side. A difference between Zionism and zionism. You're misinformed, and unapologetic... and it makes everything else you say about the region just that much more scary, especially when you turn and call others racist.
So I challenge anyone on this board to defend their stance on Zionism. I'm not going to go back into the archives to search and quote every instance of debate involving the term, but if you've said some borderline shit, then chances are you already know who you are... let's hope you're not too lazy this time to stand up for your stance.
Zionism and Herzl are not exclusive, yet you and others constantly use the term as some sort of code, or to suggest a mindset. It IS nationalism, but not in this dark conspiratory manner that you suggest. If you've ever talked about Zionists as a single united body you are speaking with bigotry. If you ever have talked of Zionists being responsible for specific events, as a united body, or idealogy, then you are misinformed and speaking with a bigoted tongue. Herzl was one voice of many key to the creation of the Zionist movement...a movement designed to provide Jews with a secular homeland. The Zionist movement is incredibly diverse in comparison to something like the African Nationalist movement which rarely gets blamed for instigating tensions in a region full of turmoil in it's own right. It gets singled out in a way that other naionalist movements, or religious homelands never do. That's wrong. When you interject Zionism out of topic, it's code. You're speaking of Jews. Yo're shifting responsibility on an ethnic group. The same people who point fingers whenever someone is being ethnocentric are often the first ones out with scathing remarks about Zionism with this notion that there is a "secret history" to expose. A dark side. A difference between Zionism and zionism. You're misinformed, and unapologetic... and it makes everything else you say about the region just that much more scary, especially when you turn and call others racist.
So I challenge anyone on this board to defend their stance on Zionism. I'm not going to go back into the archives to search and quote every instance of debate involving the term, but if you've said some borderline shit, then chances are you already know who you are... let's hope you're not too lazy this time to stand up for your stance.