21 minute song

[bigtimecow]

i thought i read something awhile ago about Helm trying to mix down a 21 minute song by his band or something. if this is correct, did you get it done?

[Helm]

Yeah we finished two of the suckers. Now I've got high speed internet (SO FAST GO MY LITTLE 30 KILOBYTES OF SPEED!) so I can send it to people if they'd like. MSN me, bitch.

[bigtimecow]

i'm only on aim.

[Helm]

http://s2.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1115E6D9DB5C53AF1E9714573B18A199

if anyone's interested, that should work for 3 days or so.

[FartinMowler]

I listened to it :) cool stuff. It sounds like a movie soundtrack.

[Helm]

I get that a lot. Although I dissagree, can't see where people get this at all.

[bigtimecow]

drum machine?

[Mad Melvin]

My thoughts exactly.

[Helm]

Yeah, drum machine.

[Goldensoldier]

What kind of music? I wouldnt mind you sending it to me. Im in a band we play a few covers but mostly our own shit. Like heavy metal and classic rock type of music. Whats your band name? Ours is The Ness. Dont ask how we got the name, but we did....it has nothing to do with anything so dont get ideas..

[Helm]

If you want the song, follow the link. The band's name was Locust Leaves. It's not heavy metal or classic rock and I have no idea if you will like it.

[FartinMowler]

I get that a lot. Although I dissagree, can't see where people get this at all.

It's 21 minutes long... :/ I kept envisioning an army walking up a hill and battling another, with individual scenes of people being chased and killed in different fashions.

[Helm]

It's actually 18 minutes long but if it make you envision anything, I guess that's a good thing.

[Pyorrhea]

hey helm, my friend and i are starting up a Brutal Death Metal band, but we are lacking a drummer. What drum machine do you reccomend until we get dave culross(yeah right) to drum for us?

[FartinMowler]

Brutal Death Metal band Is this another way of saying you suck?

[Helm]

Track your drums with decent samples in Jeskola Buzz or mod or something. Actual physical drum machines I know nothing about. Good luck with your band.

[FartinMowler]

http://media.zzounds.com/media/fit,325by400/quality,85/brand,zzounds/DR-3_DR_TMP-e5e79b8b07103b5f1994115ec14be56d.jpg :/

[MetalMilitia]

I have a Dr Rythem 2 or mabey DR 4, im not sure, but thats pretty good, has lots of drum and also bass patterns to play with and you can make your own too.
Never tried any others tho so i dont know how it compares.

[Pyorrhea]

yes fartinmowler, i suck horribly, despite the fact that i can play alot of suffocations material and write stuff just as good, but wait. oh, i forgot the unwritten law of being a musician. YES I SUCK... YOU DIDNT GET THE MEMO?

[Pyorrhea]

yeah, i meant a sampler of some type, not a real drum machine, those are too damn user unfriendly.

[FartinMowler]

spend the time to find a real drummer. It's a waste of time trying to program or find loops.

[Pyorrhea]

its hard to find quality drummers though. Most ive ran into play jazz and or cant hold a solid beat.

[Ninjavenom]

What's wrong with jazz drumming?

[Pyorrhea]

nothing at all ninja, in fact, i like jazzy breaks in metal and plan to include some, but most jazz drummers around here only drum jazz, and think they are too good for metal, which is insane because the best drummers in the world are metal drummers.

[Bobo Adobo]

Have you ever thaught that theres a possibility that they might not like Metal music?

[Crying Baby Jesus]

If you play it on Windows media player 9 with the random visualisation it makes an upside down pentagram!

[Pyorrhea]

i dont care whether or not they like metal, but when i asked them they were like "oh, i dont think so" on a really condescending tone. So yes they think they are above metal.

[Crying Baby Jesus]

Sounds like boss music or a cinematic tune

[Bobo Adobo]

Well, most main-stream metal is pretty simple in terms of music theory(im not saying tht all of it is). Most jazz drummers/percusionists that i have met tend to like more into fluxuation in there music.

[Helm]

fluxuation? What is that? Do you mean synchopation? 'Cause uh, if you're looking for odd meters and strange patterns, listen to something like Necrophagist of Cryptopsy and then tell me they're not doing stuff you've never ever heard before in your life. Pyoghefgrtrea is generally right. There's no more demanding genre technically for a drummer than very tight very technical brutal death metal in the vein of Suffocation/Cryptopsy and spaz grind like The Dillinger Escape Plan, no matter if you like it or not.

And yes, many so called 'jazz' drummers look down on double-bass and blasts because of whatever stuck-up reason when the truth of the matter is they can't play straight to save their lives.

Also, I get the feeling not a lot of people who would otherwise be interested didn't download my song because the link is in one of bigtime's threads. Oh well. I was hoping Ninjavenom would have a comment, or two however.

[Bobo Adobo]

Sorry, I meant fluctuation. :(

"And yes, many so called 'jazz' drummers look down on double-bass and blasts because of whatever stuck-up reason when the truth of the matter is they can't play straight to save their lives. "

I know a lot of jazz/non metal drummers that have double-bass drums or pedals, they just dont use them as much.

[Bobo Adobo]

edit - most decent drummers i know, no matter what style, can hold a rock solid tempo when need. I think Jazz drummers just like have more control over the direction of the music.

[Helm]

There's a world of a difference between a solid rock beat and a solid 160 bpm double-bass ride sixteenths solid beat. Face it. Metal drumming, even at it's supposed most stripped down is pretty demanding, if for nothing else, because of stamina issues. A lot of 'jazz' drummers just are more interested in faking the changes than in actually learning them. Any drummer, in any band, is in a position to influence the direction of the music, unless he's a moron, so that's not an argument.

Again, before we discuss this further, just so we're in the same ballpark, go and download Cryptopsy's song 'Voice of Unreason'. Then come back with a renewed perspective of how amazingly demanding this sort of playing is compared to most jazz 'shuffle shuffle kick kick cymbal' players.

Not that i'm discrediting good jazz. Just that people overrate the musicians that play in such bands as opposed to 'pedestrian headbanger' metal musicians.

[Pyorrhea]

or download "the invoking" by suffocation and "Portal" by origin, two great drummers right there. Flo rules too.

[Bobo Adobo]

Again, before we discuss this further, just so we're in the same ballpark, go and download Cryptopsy's song 'Voice of Unreason'. Then come back with a renewed perspective of how amazingly demanding this sort of playing is compared to most jazz 'shuffle shuffle kick kick cymbal' players.


I went to the Cryptopsy website and listened to the files they had there. Besides that, my nieghbor listens to some of the bands mentioned on this forum(like Opeth err Orbituary err something). Intense drumming, and of course I can see how physically demanding metal drumming can be. But I guess I really don't see the talent in being able to constantly play rediculously fast.

But anyways, I see your point on Jazz drumming, but the thing about Jazz drumming is that there is no real generic style. I suggest you listen to Louie Bellson, the swing drummer who pretty much invented the use of double bass, Or Billy Martin(Medeski, Martin, & Wood), or even more popular modern drummers like Stewart Copeland and Ginger Baker, who tend to use more jazzy rooted styles.

[Dole]

I have heard jazz drummers who can't play a solid beat and I have heard metal drummers who would have absolutely no clue how to play anything else.

There arent many all rounders who can play a bit of everything....not that you would ever find jazz/metal drummers who would like to play the other's genre.

[Ninjavenom]

Sorry Helm, i was feeling particularly lazy about it. Didn't mean to be rude, ya'll

It's not bad at all. I'm, actually having trouble comparing it to anything, which is quite obviously a compliment. I think i catch some Maudlin influence. I really did like it, though, i'm interested in hearing more. There's nothing i can appreciate more in music than an atmosphere, something you didn't seem to have much trouble putting together here. Some bands do ambience and it's the most boring fucking thing on earth, but since there's so much going on in your track here, it kept me listening the whole time. My Dying Bride and Anathema also seem to have the same kind of power over me. It reminds me of a post-apocalyptic Candlemass during the infrequent riffage. It doesn't sound like a movie soundtrack because there is too much presence in it. It sounds like there should be a movie made to it, instead of vice-versa.

Listening to this gave me a vision of a scorched earth, with howling, scratching wind blowing sand and ashes across the cracked land in the first few minutes. The first guitar verse seems to break the scene up and carry us off to a cavern or some kind of cave or something underground, from which we descend even deeper to a temple, which is closed off at first by another verse of guitar, this one lending a very ritual kind of image into my head. You know, shit that cults do. After the very brief soloing, the tune breaks up into something a little more energetic, it makes me think of futuristic warfare, Red Eyes and Ghost in the Shell kind of stuff. When the ringing and white noise begin, it's as if the battle is over, and we're transported to the inside of a dying soldier's mind, where his memories lapse over each other like a fine mesh of life, until he finally dies, and the song itself dies out.


But hey, i've got hella imagination. It may even give different impressions upon further listens. It makes me want to draw some of those scenes, too.

[Pyorrhea]

id rather have a metal drummer that only knew metal since im starting a metal band.

[Helm]

Thanks for sharing your impressions, Ninjavenom. I'm glad it had any sort of effect on you. I was mainly thinking of submarines, being trapped underwater and pounding on the hull so someone could hear you or whatever and that sort of mental image influenced the more ambient parts. But making you feel anything and imagine anything is good enough for me.

[Crying Baby Jesus]

It sounds liek a Monster theme from a godzilla movie.

[Helm]

Ok listen, you fat fuck. Take a deep breath. Then punch yourself in the neck. Came to? Ok. Notice how you threw up on your keyboard? Pretty gross, right? This is what all your posts look like on the forum. Why don't you fucking give up and come back when you're 10 years older and less retarded?

No, that is not a question let me rephrase that. Go away. Come back when you're 10 years older and less retarded.

[Crying Baby Jesus]

Chances are more than half of you will be dead from nuclear holocaust. While i'm here laughin my ass off.

[Ninjavenom]

No. Stop it. STOP REPLYING TO THINGS.

[MetalMilitia]

Chances are more than half of you will be dead from nuclear holocaust. While i'm here laughin my ass off.

Shut up

Anyway about the Mp3...
Very tight, im amazed you got the drums so well done as drum machines are pretty hard to use effectivly. Also the guitar sounds good, if a little discordant at times, but i guess thats the sound you where going for. And mabey you could have done with a super shredfest solo somewhere in it.

[Helm]

I don't think I can play like that, but also I didn't think the music called for it anywhere in that song.

[sspadowsky]

I've been meaning to weigh in on this, Helm, and I will do so when I've got more time. Right now, it's time to punch out and get the hell out of work.

I liked it very much. You've got a good grip on texture, melody, and composition. I agree with Ninja- the song conjures a lot of sterile, post-apocalyptic imagery, which I totally dig.

More later. Good stuff, though, my Grecian friend. I'd like to hear more of your music.

[Pyorrhea]

thats not even part of it, they could just say "no thanks" without all the elitist bullshit.