ELECTION RIGGED? (LIKE YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED)

[Geggy]

just got this release of comparison charts between the exit polls and the recorded vote counts (to date, many states have not counted provisional or absentee ballots yet)

the results are horrid.

a couple of states are very close, which is the norm. you will usually see a difference of a few percentage points here and there between exit polling and actual voting, but not much more than that. exit polling has always been extremely close to the outcome which is why it was never wrong until 2000.

look at the charts here http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/timages/page/exit_poll.gif

this does not represent all 50 states but a few of the clear kerry winners to be used as a sample set and then the battleground states. take a look at the numbers.

illinois is dead on and that's to be expected. in maine, kerry lost about 2.5 percent and bush gained 2.5 percent in the actuals vs the exit polls and the same happened in wisconsin. that's not so far out of the norm to raise a ton of alarms. there could've been some sort of skewing going on in the exit polling that made it look a little too good for kerry.

but in north carolina, bush gained more than 5 percent and kerry lost more than 5 percent. in new hampshire, kerry lost more than 10 percent and bush gained more than 10 percent. in battleground state after battleground state, the exit polling has nearly the same amount of difference between kerry's loss of votes and bush's gain of votes.

how is it possible that this was uniform across the states? if something was wrong with the exit polls, wouldn't it have fluxuated in both directions? wouldn't the percentages be more varied? this stinks like a dead rat and we only have 9 days to contest an election.

i read an article in the paper the other day that said everything went fine with the black boxes. how do we know? in any kind of accounting, you must leave yourself ways in order to validate the data. there is no method here and who fought for that? the republican controlled governments in these battleground states. i guessed at it before but the information keeps pointing more and more to the fact that the fix was in.

bev harris at www.blackboxvoting.org is organizing the largest freedom of information act request in history, trying to get the hard data from these machines so that it can be verified and rightfully so. why does this need to be kept secret? industry patents? bullshit. we need to see the closest we can get to verifiable data to make sure that the system works. forget about the fact that the outcome might have been changed. this check needs to be done to verify whether these machines are dependable or not. they're new technology, why wouldn't we do the most stringent possible tests after the fact?

people in florida were in line for ten hours in some counties and they stayed there to vote. when they call in, worried if their vote counted or not, they keep saying that everyone they talked to in line was there for kerry. these were the people who were there.

some voters report that when they got the verification screen for their touch-screen ballots, it recorded the exact opposite of how they'd voted. they called over one of the election officials for help. the officials 'fixed it' for them, but how the hell do they know if their vote was actually reversed? they didn't see another confirmation screen and there was no printout.

if you read the newspaper, you saw the story about how bush got 3,893 votes over the number of people who voted that day. this is a red flag! that was one glaring error that couldn't have been ignored. but what about the ones that you have to examine in order to dig up the truth. let's examine it.

something is so wrong here people. because we've got this new computer technology, a lot of people don't even understand how it works so they can't begin to figure out how to demand a recount.

WHY DID YOU CONCEDE KERRY?

i have a sickly suspiscion that the american people were held up at gunpoint yet again. we've been attacked and our rapist is our leader again. come on mainstream media, you are supposed to be the watchdogs of the nation. you are supposed to stand up for the big T, truth. stop being afraid of retribution from the fcc. stop being afraid of being labelled as liberals and biased. that is the trick of the republican party. if you speak out against them they say that you are in the wrong and people believe them. who cares. let the stock fall, let the nation rise, if everyone speaks out, the people will see the pattern. report the news, this was not a problem free election!

i'm going to give myself a coronary.

ugh!

[conus]

Almost time to get physical. I hope it doesn't come to it, but I no longer have any faith in the system's abilty to correct itself. Eventually things will be settled, one way or the other, in the streets.

[Zebra 3]

>: - E-voting is bullshit! Give everyone a piece of paper and ask them to make somekind of mark of intent either by a check or an x next to their favourite multi-millionaire. That's it.

[AChimp]

We should vote with pottery shards. >:

[Baalzamon]

Oh great, so the american people arent retarded, they just got cheated.

I bet this gets proven in 50 years when its too late.

civil war! civil war! :rave

[mburbank]

It would in no way surprise me to find that E-votong was absolutely rigged, but I doubt we'll ever know.

However, months ago I predicted a Nixon style implosion should W get re-elected, and I'm sticking with that. The unfortunate thing is, in the Nixon era, we had at least a small cadre of agfressive, hungry journalists, AND the idea that the President of the United states would be a part of a petty burglarly was enough for even people in his own party to favor impeachment. That's why he resigned, because his own leadership told him that they'd vote to impeach.

Do you think todaysd leadership would turnb against their own party just on account of criminal dulpability? When we've learned from a Deomcrat that impeachment can be survived and from multiple Republicans that even unasailable truth can be casually denied?

If, IF the press wakes up and holds the administration to a truth standard, if the Opposition party doesn't simply roll over as they were already doing prtior to 9/11, we may see an implosion.

If the press and democrats are stupid enough to believe all this talk of 'healing' the administration will use that time (as it did in the first term and directly after 9/11) to solidy it's control and try to make a permanent one party system. I personally don't find domination very healing. If the left can't learn to fight harder, we're gone.

[Anonymous]

Keith Olbermann's blog - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

Some excerpts:

NEW YORK — Bev Harris, the Blackbox lady, was apparently quoted in a number of venues during the day Monday as having written “I was tipped off by a person very high up in TV that the news has been locked down tight, and there will be no TV coverage of the real problems with voting on Nov. 2… My source said they’ve also been forbidden to talk about it even on their own time.”
...
[In Florida], 52 counties tallied their votes using paper ballots that were then optically scanned by machines produced by Diebold, Sequoia, or Election Systems and Software. 29 of those Florida counties had large Democratic majorities among registered voters (as high a ratio as Liberty County— Bristol, Florida and environs— where it’s 88 percent Democrats, 8 percent Republicans) but produced landslides for President Bush. On Countdown, we cited the five biggest surprises (Liberty ended Bush: 1,927; Kerry: 1,070), but did not mention the other 24.
...
Interestingly, none of the complaining emailers took issue with the remarkable results out of Cuyahoga County, Ohio. In 29 precincts there, the County’s website shows, we had the most unexpected results in years: more votes than voters.

I’ll repeat that: more votes than voters. 93,000 more votes than voters.

Oops.

Talk about successful get-out-the-vote campaigns! What a triumph for democracy in Fairview Park, twelve miles west of downtown Cleveland. Only 13,342 registered voters there, but they cast 18,472 votes.

Vote early! Vote often!
...
To her credit, Pat South, President of the Warren County Commissioners who chose to keep the media from watching the actual vote count, was willing to come on the program— but only by phone.
...
Ms. South said she admitted the media to the building’s lobby, and that they were provided with updates on the ballot-counting every half hour. Of course, the ballot-counting was being conducted on the third floor, and the idea that it would have probably looked better if Warren had done what Ohio’s other 87 counties did— at least let reporters look through windows as the tabulations proceeded— apparently didn’t occur to anybody.
...
Back to those emails, especially the 1,508 positive ones. Apart from the supportive words (my favorites: “Although I did not vote for Kerry, as a former government teacher, I am encouraged by your ‘covering’ the voting issue which is the basis of our government. Thank you.”), the main topics were questions about why ours was apparently the first television or mainstream print coverage of any of the issues in Florida or Ohio. I have a couple of theories.

Firstly, John Kerry conceded. As I pointed out here Sunday, no candidate’s statement is legally binding— what matters is the state election commissions’ reports, and the Electoral College vote next month. But in terms of reportorial momentum, the concession took the wind out of a lot of journalists’ aggressiveness towards the entire issue. Many were prepared for Election Night premature jocularity, and a post-vote stampede to the courts— especially after John Edwards’ late night proclamation from Boston. When Kerry brought that to a halt, a lot of the media saw something of which they had not dared dream: a long weekend off.

Don’t discount this. This has been our longest presidential campaign ever, to say nothing of the one in which the truth was most artfully hidden or manufactured. To consider this mess over was enough to get 54 percent of the respondents to an Associated Press poll released yesterday to say that the “conclusiveness” of last week’s vote had given them renewed confidence in our electoral system (of course, 39 percent said it had given them less confidence). Up for the battle for truth or not, a lot of fulltime political reporters were ready for a rest. Not me— I get to do “Oddball” and “Newsmakers” every night and they always serve to refresh my spirit, and my conviction that man is the silliest of the creator’s creations.
...
Having said all that— for crying out loud, all the data we used tonight on Countdown was on official government websites in Cleveland and Florida. We confirmed all of it— moved it right out of the Reynolds Wrap Hat zone in about ten minutes.

---

Yellowed the part that directly refutes Geggy's claim of us only having a few days or something left.

I'm not letting myself get optimistic over this, but hopefully the media will sucker-punch the asshole in office at the very least.

[mburbank]

The media are not going to do shit. Dan Rather's stumble has them all scared shit that they might get over eager and go with something they'd get nailed for.

The Republican message machine will paint anyone who even toys with doubt as sour grapes gripers at best and insane at worst.

Look, no matter what you think of the election results, any decent American should reject a system in which close to 1/3 of the country's votes CAN NOT BE RECOUNTED. The fact that the major player in e-voting tech is Diebold a HUGE Bush contributor is secondary.

How can you have a democracy in which a huge chunk of votes, a deciding chunk of votes, MUST BE TAKEN ON FAITH? Make an argument for me, anyone, on why this is not a crisis?

I'm not hopeless. I think massive resistance is possible and can grow over time. McGovern lost in a landslide that made this W win look pathetic, and yet it was not long at all before Nixon and much of what he stood for were gone.

But I do think Democracy in America, while it is not over, is deffinitely on hold.

It's not that I think this election was stolen. It's that I can't know, no one can no, and that fact is by design. It's that as a people we seem to be allright with that.

[VinceZeb]

Yes, the election was rigged. We also didn't land on the moon and Karl Rove posses the Holy Grail which he uses to sustain his immortality.

Sorry, but when you site Keith Dorkerman as a source, you are giving up shitloads of credability.

[mburbank]

Vinth, seriously. Are you still inclined toward Liberatarianism?

It doesn't bother you in the least that in the case of one third of the votes we have to take some sepciffic corporations unverifiable word?

I think you should relinquish any claim to being having liberatarian leanings. You're far too trusting.

[Ricky Glue]

Vince has always been and will generally be very retarded. remember everybody, trust the president is always correct.

[Zhukov]

Well, obviously he's not a full libertarian. He never said that.

[mburbank]

Didn't he say he was a republican with Liberatarin 'leanings'? What would those leanings be exactly? I think anybody who even thinks they are a little teeny bit Liberatarian who doesn't find W and company more threatening than any modern administration should have their card taken away and their secret tattoo removed with a dull putty knife.

[VinceZeb]

Vinth, seriously. Are you still inclined toward Liberatarianism?

It doesn't bother you in the least that in the case of one third of the votes we have to take some sepciffic corporations unverifiable word?

I think you should relinquish any claim to being having liberatarian leanings. You're far too trusting.

I want every vote counted. It's only going to help bush. Count them all, and when it still shows Bush winning by a comfortable margin, then what will the liberals do? Whine about living in a represenative republic? Also, the counties that all the conspiracy nuts are screaming about Bush winning in Florida are the same counties that he won in 2000, that Dole won in 96, that Bush senior won in 92 and 88.

Democrats have a hard time with losing. They can't help that they lost and they lost big in this election. Clinton never got 50% of the vote, but Bush got over 50%. You have to admit Max that they are trying to grasp at straws that are non-existant.

[mburbank]

I think it's possible you're missing the point, Vinth.

As someone with Liberatarian leanings, regardless of who won, doesn't it bother you at all, that tyhe government has now instituted a policy where 1/3 of the votes in a presidential election CAN'T be verified?

Isn't that, I don't know, little too much power to put in the hands of three CEO's and the government, wether their R or D?

Isn't one of the big Liberatrian ideals NOT giving the government that kind of power?

That's my question to you, not who won, but that the people of the united states have to take on faith who won. Do you get what I'm saying? re you not even a teeny weeny bit Liberatarian anymore?

[AChimp]

No. That part was in his appendix.

[VinceZeb]

I think it's possible you're missing the point, Vinth.

As someone with Liberatarian leanings, regardless of who won, doesn't it bother you at all, that tyhe government has now instituted a policy where 1/3 of the votes in a presidential election CAN'T be verified?

Isn't that, I don't know, little too much power to put in the hands of three CEO's and the government, wether their R or D?

Isn't one of the big Liberatrian ideals NOT giving the government that kind of power?

That's my question to you, not who won, but that the people of the united states have to take on faith who won. Do you get what I'm saying? re you not even a teeny weeny bit Liberatarian anymore?

No, the point is that you are trying to bait me into going off on you and you are upset that I'm giving you a calm, rational response. The Democrats lost. They lost big. They need to get over it and quit trying to make excuses for running a leftist Senator who is out of touch with reality.

[AChimp]

Max: It doesn't bother you in the least that in the case of one third of the votes we have to take some sepciffic corporations unverifiable word?

Vinth: HAHAHAHA YOU LOSE, JEW! THHHPPPPPTTT!

Max: Isn't that, I don't know, little too much power to put in the hands of three CEO's and the government, wether their R or D?

Vinth: EXCUSES! YOU LOSE! I WIN! JEW!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I want every vote counted. It's only going to help bush. Count them all, and when it still shows Bush winning by a comfortable margin, then what will the liberals do?

I, for one, will be quite relieved. I will gladly accept supporting a candidate who honestly lost due to his own short-comings. I will also gladly accept the fact that the country is intensely divided, with a slight majority in favor of those who hold a different perspective (slightly) than myself.

This would make me a very comfortable loser. However, if some mischief has gone down, specifically in Ohio, then i will NOT be quiet, i will not be polite, and I will scream, and whine, and fucking YELL until every vote is counted!!!!!!!!!!

[mburbank]

Vinth; here it is, straight out. I think Kerry probably lost. I don't like it, but barring any concrete proof and definitive legal action (not a lawsuit, but a succesful lawsuit, an end product) I accept that Bush is the legitimate President of the United States.

On a TOTALLY SEPARATE NOTE: Do you think it's bad that in our current system of voting, there is no way to check the status of one third of the votes, and that these votes must be accepted on the word of three coportations and the government?

I think your are scared to adress that question. It makes you feel like a baboon with two equi-distant food bowls. You know that an unverifiable vote goes against everything you believe in, but you also know your team won, and you are unable to cope with the friction that creates in yoru brain. You can't separate the two things.

Let me help you. Repeat after me.

"I'm very glad my team won. I also think the system under which they won is a very bad system and should be investigated and changed, as it threatens the freedom of all Americans and invalidates our democracy. That doesn't change the fact that I'm very glad my team won."

You can cut and paste that. It's that simple. r you can make an argument about how an uncheckable voting system squares with your principles.

I bet you won't do either, Because, now what was it I called you before your eight month case of appendicitis?

Oh, yes.

A 'pussychicken'. You won't do it because you are a pussychicken.

[Geggy]

i have no doubt in my mind the elecvtion was rigged and i have no doubt the media is going to do squat. so i've accepted the fact that bush is going to be our president for another four years, not unless someone succeed at assassinating hima nd cheney. so don't waste your money to donations and signing your name on some petition. the government controls large portion of mainstream media and threatens to fire anyone who spews forth the possibly of election being rigged. the surging of CIA has already begun as evidences continue to loom...read article here, although, not related to election fraud but cover ups...http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2900161

[Anonymous]

Look, no matter what you think of the election results, any decent American should reject a system in which close to 1/3 of the country's votes CAN NOT BE RECOUNTED. The fact that the major player in e-voting tech is Diebold a HUGE Bush contributor is secondary.

How can you have a democracy in which a huge chunk of votes, a deciding chunk of votes, MUST BE TAKEN ON FAITH? Make an argument for me, anyone, on why this is not a crisis?
Diebold Source Code!!!
by ouranos (dailykos.com)

"Dr. Avi Rubin is currently Professor of Computer Science at John Hopkins University. He 'accidentally' got his hands on a copy of the Diebold software program--Diebold's source code--which runs their e-voting machines. Dr. Rubin's students pored over 48,609 lines of code that make up this software. One line in particular stood out over all the rest: #defineDESKEY((des_KEY8F2654hd4" All commercial programs have provisions to be encrypted so as to protect them from having their contents read or changed by anyone not having the key... The line that staggered the Hopkins team was that the method used to encrypt the Diebold machines was a method called Digital Encryption Standard (DES), a code that was broken in 1997 and is NO LONGER USED by anyone to secure programs. F2654hd4 was the key to the encryption. Moreover, because the KEY was IN the source code, all Diebold machines would respond to the same key. Unlock one, you have then ALL unlocked. I can't believe there is a person alive who wouldn't understand the reason this was allowed to happen. This wasn't a mistake by any stretch of the imagination."

[mburbank]

Rubin is going to get sued, if not criminally charged. That's proprietary software belonging to Diebold.

The people have no right to know the encryption was deliberately faulty. The encryption codes are the private property of Diebold.

Certainly the rights of the american people to know that up to 1/3 of the total votes were real is trumped by the Diebold Corporations property rights.

Any evidence suggesting Diebold did not fulfill their contract (which one assumes is with the US govt.) is inadmissible, as it belongs solely to the Diebold corporation.

Perhaps we can give Diebold a no bid cost plus contract to run the vote in Iraq. Then it won't matter if exit polls show no Sunni's voted.

[Preechr]

Didn't that whole thing with Diebold's code and Rubin happen like almost two years ago?

Wait... Why am I asking questions about something I couldn't give two shits about?

[mburbank]

I'm kind of surprised to hear you say that. Why?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Don't Libertarians hate the encroachment of BIG GOVERNMENT in our voting process...? I mean, geez, if you let the government ALLOW you to vote, soon you'll want them to COUNT the votes for you, too! :rolleyes

Harry Browne would roll in his grave. Wait, is he dead yet?

[Preechr]

Virtually, yes... so since we're talking on the internet, yes he's dead.

I suppose I should explain myself better. While it does matter to me that representative government is also so dead in this country that the electronic voting scandal doesn't piss anyone off, much less become an object of concern in the media, it eventually gets hard to be one of the only ones that care about stuff.

You gotta look at this from my point of view, though: The LP drew a whopping 400,000 votes for President in a record year for voter turnout. Hey, they only raised a million bucks, which made their campaign the most cost-effective Presidential run of the year...

Wow.

That's good, right?

The true Republican party, the only actual Party of the People or anti-war party, drew almost half a million votes in a time of poorly run and ill-conceived war and a more-than-ever rapidly expanding as well as oppressive government................

Good stuff.

At least all tose votes for someone else than Bush made a difference, right? I mean, at least now everybody understands that the shenanigans of the last four years won't be tolerated anymore. That's why everybody's all up in arms about the vagaries of quickly mandated e-voting, especially since we had four whole years to fix what half of America's been bitching about: that bass-ackwards voting systems can lead to stolen elections and whatnot...

It's good that we fixed it.

[Preechr]

And, for the record, there is no "right" to vote. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but, as a Libertarian, I have to point out that we technically have no right to individually elect our executive or judicial representation, and only our Senators indirectly...