Bush admin's outreach to Islamic world is Muslimless

[mburbank]

By Robin Wright and Al Kamen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Monday, April 18, 2005; Page A02

The Bush administration's outreach to the Islamic world is in no hurry. And it includes no Muslims.

Karen Hughes, who was appointed a month ago to craft a bold new approach for U.S. public diplomacy, is not expected to take the job until as late as the fall, according to administration and congressional sources. The delay is already undermining U.S. credibility, with a well-placed U.S. official warning about "the gap between rhetoric and reality."

Dina Powell, the new No. 2 official in charge of public diplomacy, is also not expected to take the job for at least two more months, administration sources say.

The delay comes as a Government Accountability Office report released this month criticized the administration for failing to develop a strategy to improve the image of the United States as "recent polling data show that anti-Americanism is spreading and deepening around the world."

"Such anti-American sentiments can increase foreign public support for terrorism directed at Americans, impact the cost and effectiveness of military operations, weaken the United States' ability to align with other nations in pursuit of common policy objectives, and dampen foreign publics' enthusiasm for U.S. business services and products," the report warned.

Despite the administration's repeated pledges of outreach, the State Department's main program directed at the Islamic world has no Muslim staff, U.S. officials say. "There's a dearth of Muslims in the State Department generally," a senior State Department official said. Like Powell, who is Egyptian American, most Arabs in the administration are Christians, sources said.

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States and is expected to become the second-largest religious bloc here in the next few years, but the government has not tapped into its own community as part of the global outreach, U.S. officials say.

"It's very important for American Muslims to be involved, as they're an important conduit to the wider Islamic world and they should be speaking out," the second U.S. official added. "But American Muslims generally feel they're not included like other communities. We should be talking to them, as they have a lot of knowledge of the region."

The failure to include American Muslims has sparked criticism from Middle East and democracy experts. "You can do Muslim outreach without Muslims and it doesn't mean Dina Powell can't be effective, but the administration has not made much effort to integrate Muslim Americans in this effort," said Thomas Carothers, director of the democracy project at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

[Preechr]

BUTCHA JES CAINT TRUST DEM DAMN MUSLIMS TO DO GUBBERMINT STUFF! IF THEM MUSLIMS DON LIKE AMERICA, WHY THA HELL WUD WE WANNA PUT EM IN CHARGE A FIXIN THA PROBLEM?

Seriously, somewhat, though: "recent polling data show that anti-Americanism is spreading and deepening around the world..."

Shouldn't this commitee, if actually necessary, have been formed at ANY random point within the last 30 years?

[mburbank]

Well, I think the whole idea that if we'd just change our public relations campaign with the rest of the world (as opposed to, say, our actions) they'd stop hating us is absurd.

That being said, if you're trying to reach out to Muslims, even in a hollow, pointless way, it's good to have some Muslims on board. They might know something about Muslimism.

[Abcdxxxx]

Yeah but your motivation for reaching out isn't inclusivism, it's fear, and patronige. That's just a hollow gesture libel to fuel the resentment from those who look to find our faults to begin with.

On a base level, how logical is it to hand out government jobs because someone declared war on you? So you can understand the enemy? Those people would be viewed as having as much integrity as a spy.

[AngPur]

Yeah but your motivation for reaching out isn't inclusivism, it's fear, and patronige. That's just a hollow gesture libel to fuel the resentment from those who look to find our faults to begin with.

"Liable"

Are you saying a lack of outreach would be better?

On a base level, how logical is it to hand out government jobs because someone declared war on you? So you can understand the enemy? Those people would be viewed as having as much integrity as a spy.

Just because they are Muslim does not make them them spies. We know now that what FDR did with the Japanese in WW2 was pointless, as no acts of sabatoge were commited by Japanese living in America.

In Kosovo, Christians were killing Muslims, but during that conflict we had enough Christians in the government and America to understand that it was not a fault of Christianity for the attempted genocide. In the same way, more muslim outreach will help us understand that radical extremists are not the average Muslim.

[kellychaos]

linky (http://cinemocracy.blogs.com/cinemocracy/2005/03/america_new_and.html)

[Azrael]

I just don't get it. I've studied Theology quite a bit and being a Sort-of Wiccan my mind is blown by this stuff. All of the big 3 of religion (Christianity,Islam,Judaism) preach understanding and tolernace yet, all the powers-that-be in each of them just hate and want to destroy each other. I mean, am I the only one that feels "kiliing in the name of God or Allah or insert Deity of choice here" to be a contradiction in the teachings? I'm sure Jesus or Mohammed or Buddha would love to have their names associated with all of this, in the end, gross stupidity.

[Emu]

The problem is that it seems like the powerful people most devoted to their religion are too stupid to understand the finer points.

[Azrael]

Yes, that's why I have a hard time believing in organised religion. The followers are suppsed to live in fear of The Creator and in fear of going to hell(or whatever) and yet, the Powers-that-be seem to have no fear whatsoever. It just seems like more of a control method than a belief system.

[Emu]

To be fair, you can be a member of an organized religion and still draw spirituality from it without necessesarily being controlled by its every doctrine. Religion isn't built as a control system, it's just been made into one.

[Azrael]

Ahhh, you have found the secret of life that for some odd reason escapes the vast majority of people. That is precisely what Wicca talks about. Your spirituality is your own and should be discovered and experienced on one's own, not force fed to you. For if it's force-fed you don't get the true meaning just the words on the paper.

[Abcdxxxx]

Just because they are Muslim does not make them them spies. .......In the same way, more muslim outreach will help us understand that radical extremists are not the average Muslim.

Maybe my spelling error threw you off.

I'm saying any Muslim who would take a position in the Bush government or take part in an outreach program would lose all credibility within their own community and be viewed by other Muslims as suspect, or a spy. The gesture isn't going to get the reaction intended, and I don't see how anyone can believe a little outreach will account for the type of education and knowledge about Muslims you're hoping for. So it's an empty gesture meant to placate Leftists who think some compassion and some ass kissing is going to save the day. If anything it will show your average Muslim that the tactics of extremists pays off, and works.

[Jeanette X]

That is precisely what Wicca talks about.

Speaking of religions being force-fed to people...

I fucking hate it when Neopagans start badmouthing other religions and holding their religion up as being better.

I really fucking hate it.

Do most Neopagans seriously believe that the ancient Pagans were all these lovely, nice, womyn goddess matriachial earth- centered peaceful enlightened folk? Cause the Neopagans I meet seem to believe that their no follower of their religion ever commited cruelty with pious zealotry when I FUCKING KNOW this isn't the case.

[AngPur]

'Pagan' refers simply to non-christian religions. The term is like a more derogitory varient of 'gentile'. The old local religions of Europe varied in the same manner that Native American religions differed.

Oh, Abcd, yes I do think I misunderstood. Now, some Muslims who work with America are not called spies. Hamid Karzai for example is loved by his people and avoided the insurgencies that we have now in Iraq. Yes, a bit of ass kissing won't solve everything, but it's a step in the right direction.

[Emu]

I was told that pagan was Gaelic(?) for "hill people."

[Emu]

Do most Neopagans seriously believe that the ancient Pagans were all these lovely, nice, womyn goddess matriachial earth- centered peaceful enlightened folk? Cause the Neopagans I meet seem to believe that their no follower of their religion ever commited cruelty with pious zealotry when I FUCKING KNOW this isn't the case.

Yes. They do. When these people think of the ancient druids, they think of something ridiculously similar to Diablo II/World of Warcraft druids.

[kellychaos]

I don't know the root of the word "pagan" itself but pagan religions in a lot of cultures are associated with rural people who often lived in "the hills" ... i.e. diassociated from the main populace and, consequently, the mainstream religion of the time.

[Abcdxxxx]

Yes, a bit of ass kissing won't solve everything, but it's a step in the right direction.

When has ass kissing ever worked in the Middle East?

We had Colin and Condelezza in the White House and it didn't do much to appease the Reparations crowd.

[ziggytrix]

The Muslim world isn't just the middle east, dude. Not all Muslims are hardline fanatics who would see any Muslim working with the Whtie House as a spy. I would think there are any number of AMERICAN Muslims who would be great for the job.

They'd have to be a scholar though, have it on their resume. Ya couldn't just go hire someone cuz he's a Muslim - that's descrimination! :P

I think you've got a bad attitude (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/12/nyregion/12hate.html) about this ABCDEFG.

[AngPur]

When has ass kissing ever worked in the Middle East?

Well, I was using the phrase a bit sarcastically. It’s more along the lines of the Vietnam ‘win their hearts and minds’ idea. I mean, hell, in the first Gulf War we had a military alliance between some Middle Eastern states and some very pro-Israeli states. Staunch standoffishness is fine for the terrorists, but not every Muslim deserves that stance.

We had Colin and Condelezza in the White House and it didn't do much to appease the Reparations crowd.

We also have a lot of white people in the government, and that doesn't appease the KKK over the presence of Condi and Powell. It’s not really a matter of what skin color the representatives have so much as how much they know about the culture in question.

[Abcdxxxx]

The Muslim world isn't just the middle east, dude. Not all Muslims are hardline fanatics who would see any Muslim working with the Whtie House as a spy. I would think there are any number of AMERICAN Muslims who would be great for the job.


We wouldn't even be having this conversation if it wasn't for actions occuring in the Middle East. The Middle East is the core of being a Muslim, no matter where you are in the world you face the Middle East, dude.

You don't have to be a hardline fanatic to have skepticism about the sincerity of a Bush government, or anyone who would allign themselves with the US Government policies. It simply goes against
everything being taught in Muslim communities of EVERY stripe.

Hate crimes are up against Jews too. What's your point?

Angpur - If it's not about skin color, then we might as well train our existing State employees to speak Arabic, and understand the culture. I'd say that would do more good for everyone then a few token hirings.

[ziggytrix]

My point? We got enough hate in this world. :(

"It's very important for American Muslims to be involved, as they're an important conduit to the wider Islamic world and they should be speaking out," the second U.S. official added. "But American Muslims generally feel they're not included like other communities. We should be talking to them, as they have a lot of knowledge of the region."

What's so fricken terrible about that?

[AChimp]

When I think about druids, I think Vercingetorix. And when I think about Vercingetorix, I think Christopher Lambert. :)

[Abcdxxxx]

I think this outreach stuff is a little bit like teaching sensitivity training. It's more about covering your ass and looking like you're fixing a problem rather then resolving the root cause of the issue itself.

[Archduke Tips]

The Islamic world is an enemy to all reasonable humans, and they should be treated like that.

I don't see why we even consider pandering to their will just because they are upset that some Americans in an unsubstantiated story may or may not have desecrated a Quran.

Then they go and burn American flags. Instead of empowering these people we should massacre them and build our own society on their ruins.

Unfortunately, America is poisoned with the taint of ethics so we rarely do what is right.

[AngPur]

For the love of Zod tell me you're attention whoring and/or sarcastic. Saying that 'some Muslims are bad, so they all must DIE' is like saying 'some Christians killed innocents in Kosovo, so they all must DIE'.

[Helm]

yes, thank you Russo, for your valuable contributions to this thread. Now go ask your mother to tell you what to do for the rest of the evening.

[Abcdxxxx]

Though i will say the constant need to clarify that not all Muslims think a certain way is just about as retarded as assuming people automatically think like this Russo idiot.

If you want to have an intelligent conversation, start by erroring on the side of intelligence for a change.

[Emu]

Unfortunately, America is poisoned with the taint of ethics so we rarely do what is right.

That's the single most retarded thing I've heard all day. It's going in the sig.

[ziggytrix]

Though i will say the constant need to clarify that not all Muslims think a certain way is just about as retarded as assuming people automatically think like this Russo idiot.

I wish that were true, but you really can't assume either in a country full of people who get offended when you suggest that we are equal (rather than superior) to other countries.

Also, I'm pretty sure Russo was being sracstic. If not, then that is the most beautiful bit of "found comedy" I've ever been blessed to read.

[Archduke Tips]

Though i will say the constant need to clarify that not all Muslims think a certain way is just about as retarded as assuming people automatically think like this Russo idiot.

If you want to have an intelligent conversation, start by erroring on the side of intelligence for a change.

So you are saying it is retarded to clarify things that are obvious? Thankyou for clarifying that.

[Emu]

So were you being sarcastic or what? I have to know whether my signature is funny or not.

[ziggytrix]

Geeze, that's like askin your girl if she came... I mean shit, you ought to know.

[Archduke Tips]

Let's just regard what I said as a magical fairy. You have to believe or it will die.

[Abcdxxxx]

Either way you still end up being the dope saying retarded shit.

[Helm]

what abcdxxxx said.

[Archduke Tips]

Why was it retarded?

[Helm]

could you stop trying to focibly feed my that bait stop don't push it all over my face please stop

[Archduke Tips]

Yeah. I'm just fucking with ya.

What would you do to fix the violent problems in the world?

[FS]

hide ALL the guns

[Emu]

I think we need some kind of disaster, like a meteor or a nuclear winter or a dragon attack to make us all hide underground or in large castles where our leader is a bearded man with a gun whom we can all unite under.

[Helm]

What would you do to fix the violent problems in the world?

I'd start by killing all the women.

[ziggytrix]

We need a fundamental shift in human consciousness from "us against them" to "us for us."

I'm not exactly holding my breath.

[Emu]

What would you do to fix the violent problems in the world?

I'd start by killing all the women.

badum psshh