Leftists want to ban BBQ. When will it end?

[Ronnie Raygun]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/1821346

March 17, 2003, 9:33AM

Barbecue's fatty fumes add to haze
Rice research shows fine particles matter
By DINA CAPPIELLO
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle Environment Writer
RESOURCES

When folks say Texans live and breathe barbecue, they really mean it.

In a study about to be published, scientists at Rice University have measured the tiny bits of polyunsaturated fatty acids created by cooking meat. These fine particles -- mixed with the diesel exhaust, car fumes and road dust that make up soot in Houston's air -- can lodge in people's lungs and contribute to the city's haze.

But while Houstonians have long joked about the "smell of money" emanating from the Ship Channel, barbecue enthusiasts don't see the humor in scientists' measuring the "fatty fumes" that are a byproduct of a favorite pastime.

"There are a lot of people who have grills at their house," said Jeff Shivers, executive director of the Texas Barbecue Association. "It's not like everybody is firing them up at the same time. There is so much other stuff in the area."

Analyzing particles in Houston's air, environmental engineer Matt Fraser of Rice University detected fatty acids among the millions of tiny organic particles that float in the city's atmosphere. The acids are released when fat drips onto hot coals and sizzles.

"It's definitely when you have an open grill. It's any process that generates meat smoke," said Fraser, whose study was recently accepted for publication in the journal Atmospheric Environment. "The compounds are specific to meat."

Come December 2004, fine particles may be subject to increased regulation in Texas if it is found that metropolitan areas such as Houston do not meet federal air quality standards for particulate matter -- what scientists call the mix of particles in the air. The area already exceeds federal guidelines for smog, and has until 2007 to come into compliance.

Research like Fraser's could be used by the state to determine which sources to eventually control.

These meaty particles -- a fraction of the width of a human hair -- are what you smell when you drive by a Burger King, steak house or barbecue joint. They are among dozens of particles, from cigarette smoke to tire wear, even cholesterol, that scientists can detect in the air using unique molecular fingerprints.

The only possible source of polyunsaturated fatty acids is meat cooking, according to laboratory tests. Scientists use other one-of-a-kind compounds to trace other pollution sources.

Fraser's analysis excluded inorganic particles, released by industry and large-scale combustion that comprise the bulk of particles in Houston's air.

"That just blows me away, because we are going to be a pollutant," said Sandy Babcock, treasurer of the Texas Gulf Coast Barbecue Association. "You think mold, tree spores ... but not meat particles."

Indeed, any suggestion that meat smoke could be a part of the hazardous particle mix is treated as downright un-Texan. Babcock's association, for example, boasts that the Lone Star state holds more than 400 competitive barbecue events every year. The organization's motto is, "Texans are born with a mission to go out and educate people about barbecue."

But Fraser isn't blaming the backyard cookout for Houston's pollution problem.

"Meat cooking is more important than wood burning, but it's less important than diesel," Fraser said. "These are trace levels. They are very low concentrations."

Fraser analyzed air samples taken from four locations between March 1997 and February 1998 for eight different sources of organic particles. Two samples were located near the heavily industrialized Houston Ship Channel. One, more representative of a suburban area, was on Bingle Road. For comparison, a fourth monitor was placed at the Galveston airport.

He found fatty particles from grilling meat in all areas. Proportionately, meat cooking was the biggest contributor only in Galveston, though the island had the lowest concentration of organic particles overall.

But unlike some of the other sources of organic particles studied -- including fuel oil, diesel- and gasoline-powered engines, road dusts and the waxes released by dead plants as they are run over -- the proportion of particles from meat cooking was constant regardless of season.

Similar air studies in Atlanta and Los Angeles have also found evidence of meat cooking. In health-conscious California, a 1996 study found fatty acids accounted for a greater percentage of the particles there than in Houston.

"There may be some difference in how many people eat meat or something, but it's really the density" of the city that determines the concentration of particles, Fraser explained.

In California, the research prompted officials to require fast-food restaurants that use chain-driven charbroilers to install ceramic filters on their exhaust vents. To meet ozone and small particle air standards by 2010, the state is considering more rigorous rules for restaurants.

"It's just part of our ongoing process here in the smog capital of the U.S. of having to go to every source of air pollution and making them do their fair share," said Sam Atwood, a spokesman for the South Coast Air Quality Management District in Southern California.

In Maryland, air permits have been required for industrial-size charbroilers and barbecue pits since 1984, said John Scherer, a public health engineer with the Maryland Department of the Environment.

A search of the Harris County database for air pollution complaints found none related to restaurants, barbecue or grilling.

Regardless, it's tough to imagine much political support for cracking down on grilling in what might be the barbecue capital of the world.

[mburbank]

You know what's really going to add to pollution, though? All the BBQ people a certain Texan is whippin' up. We ought to do something about all the human meat particles that good ol' boy is about to serve up.

I mean, not to distract from your humorous little news item. That would be downright un-Texan.

[Ronnie Raygun]

It's sick how you fail to mention how Saddam will probably set fire to the oil wells....

But the again, you would be failing to defend Saddam and you don't want to do that do you. Because since Saddam is an enemy of Bush, he is a friend of yours and that makes you an enemy of our troops saying things like......"the only way to avert doom is for American casualties to be heavy".

GOD Bless America

[sspadowsky]

Ronnie Raygun, Feb 3, 2003:

I'm going to go out of my way not to deliberatly aggravate people anymore.

I'm going to make a conscious effort to be kind to thine enemies.

________
LovelyWendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Anonymous]

NEWS ALERT:

Burning Iraqi bodies will not, as previously thought, be environmentally damaging. New American technology will assure a very efficient clean burning soldier. In other news, Iraqi soldiers have been warned not to obstruct our objective. Their choice to burn is theirs. Alternative options include white flags, and/or staying home and watching the war on television.

[Skulhedface]

Ahh but if you burn an Iraqi body, would you not be releasing those oh-so-horrible meat particles into the air? Greenpeace would be on us like white on rice, not to mention Amnesty International, but that's killing the joke there.

[mburbank]

"It's sick how you fail to mention how Saddam will probably set fire to the oil wells....

But the again, you would be failing to defend Saddam and you don't want to do that do you. Because since Saddam is an enemy of Bush, he is a friend of yours and that makes you an enemy of our troops saying things like......"the only way to avert doom is for American casualties to be heavy".

Are you honestly this dense or are you striving for irony?

I was referencing your stupid BBQ article. It makes speciffic reference to 'meat partciles' as pollutants. Burning bodies would give off 'meat' particles. Burning oil wells would not. I was making fun of your decision to post a REALLY dumb ass article and think it was in any way meaningful.

For the record: When Saddam set the Kuwaiti oil fields on fire, it was a terrible thing to do, and environmentally devestating.

Sadam is not my friend, and I don't belive I've said anything that might be construed as defending him. I've said a lot about defending the iraqi people.

I think it's sick you call other people liars and reserve for yourself the right to lie and lie and lie. Sick, but hardly surprising. You can cast the blame any way you like, you can say this is ll Sadams fault and it may well be, but in the end, American bombs and American soldiers are going to kill human beings. Children are going to die. If your okay with that to avert a larger doom, what exactly is your problem with my statement. It's my contention we are courting World War Three. That's my sincere belief. I may well be wrong. But suppose for the sake of argument I'm right. Would it be worth the loss of American lives on the appauling scale of Vietnam to avert World War Three? Is this argument any different than yours that we need to invade Iraq now to prevent Sadam from doing more damage later.

I see two differences.

1.) You're are as absolutely certain you are right and I'm wrong as I am the sun is the center of the solar system.

2.) You are appauled that I talk of American deaths. If I'm right, I think you need to look at that. You see us and them. I see people. Human beings with the same wants aand needs and capacity to suffer as us. If fact, you should be MORE concerned about them than us. Christian (real christian) Americans who perish on the battlefield will go to heaven. Muslims (who will be soldiers and blameless civillians) will go to hell.

[glowbelly]

i don't think i say this enough: thank you, max burbank.

[mburbank]

Well you're more than welcome, Glow. It just grinds my beans how mean Ronnie is to me and all the lies he spreads about me! Why, someone new coming to these boards could get the impression I wasn't a nice guy!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

NEWS ALERT:

Burning Iraqi bodies will not, as previously thought, be environmentally damaging. New American technology will assure a very efficient clean burning soldier. In other news, Iraqi soldiers have been warned not to obstruct our objective. Their choice to burn is theirs. Alternative options include white flags, and/or staying home and watching the war on television.

If an American soldier did this you'd call them a traitor.

[mburbank]

Plus since we generally lead with air strikes, it's not realy an option. And I doubt Iraqi soldiers get the choice to 'stay home' any more than American soldiers do.

But that's okay. No big deal. They're not real human beings, they're just the enemy making the choice to burn. So the suffering they feel doesn't matter at all.

[Ronnie Raygun]

Max,

"If fact, you should be MORE concerned about them than us. Christian (real christian) Americans who perish on the battlefield will go to heaven. Muslims (who will be soldiers and blameless civillians) will go to hell."

Oh! Not again!? You wouldn't try to decieve anyone here would you, Maxi?

Didn't I just start a thread saying that we should pray for Iraqis and American soldiers?

I believe I did. Therefore you have once again been exposed for the liar you are.

I hope you are disappointed and very few if any American soldiers die. In my opinion, THAT is the only way to "avert doom".

[Protoclown]

I hope you are disappointed and very few if any American soldiers die. In my opinion, THAT is the only way to "avert doom".

I notice you didn't mention the Iraqi soldiers or citizens here. But you're praying for them.

The only thing I'm wondering is...are you praying for them to live, or praying for them to die?

[mburbank]

No, Naldo, I won't be disapointed.

And I see no lie here. You said you would pray for both. Which is very good of you.

I said you should be MORE concerned for the Iraqis, who's souls as well as there lives are in peril. Many of the American souls as well, but my point remians. Also, I said nothing at all about what you were doing, only suggested where your concerns ought morally to balance. Love thy enemy and all.

I know nothing of your relative concern levels. It's not a lie. Like when you say I "Hate what America stands for", which clearly is.

[VinceZeb]

I always love it when the anti-war groups put on their 70's SuperFly outfits and bring up the pimped children.

"OH NO! WAR KILLS CHILDREN!"

No, really?!? I thought we had special bombs that would not pierce the skin of those that have not entered puberty.

For the few, VERY unfortunate civilian causalities that will happen because of this war that we tried to prevent (not including those that Saddam tries to murder himself or place in military areas. I have talked to a coworker that served in the Gulf. IT HAPPENS.), we will save a MASS amount of lives. I guess those kids of the dissenters that have their EYES gouged out don't mean shit, because we accidentally killing children to PERSERVE THEIR AND THEIR CHILDERN'S freedom is a vast atrocity that must be STOPPED. I guess the women rapped and hung upside during their menstrual cycles to bleed all over themselves are just something we should "tolerate", because we wouldn't want to impose our evil jingoistic capitalist Xian pro-selected president views on them, huh?


That is why I love liberals. When it comes to keeping children away from porno, homosexuality, depravity, drugs, broken homes, and govt educational enslavement, we "fascist right-wingers" are the scourge of children everywhere, but when it comes to war in which we try to AVOID children dying, suddenly children's welfare means something. Blah.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

govt educational enslavement

:rolleyes

For some reason I fear I'll be finding myself in agreement with Ronnie more often....

[VinceZeb]

Yes, govt educational enslavement. Read a book sometime. Joe Clark, ya know, the guy who the movie Lean On Me was about, says himself that govt education for the most part is a bunch of bull that does nothing but keep underprivledged children, who a vast amount of them are minorites (ya know, the people the liberals like to pimp out every 2 to 4 years for votes) nice and stupid so people can take advantage of them. It's all about votes. Keep people relying on the govt, they are going to vote for govt handouts, who keeps giving the handouts for the most part? Liberals, who are mostly Democrats. Who is big on not having school vouchers? Liberals, who are mostly Democrats.

I work in a private school. I know the public school games that are ran. I want all kids to have a right to a good education, not the foo-foo crapola one we give kids now thanks to dumbing down of test scores and grades based on "progress" instead of what they did.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I only read books that are recommended by Rush Limbaugh or Micahel Savage, sorry. :(

I don't doubt that the public education system has serious problems, but I'm sure you and I disagree on the solutions, and I certainly don't believe vouchers and Edisen (Edison?) schools are that answer.

[mburbank]

That was pretty cool. I think an ELIZA program could be written to do the same thing, but still, it was classic form.

There were more than 200 civillian casualties in Panama. I'm kind of thinking this might be a little more drawn out. I certainly hope not, but if you have some sort of iside scoop on the body count, you should share it.

If you think our administration is over there to stop the maltreatemnt of women, I'd suggest that bad as it is, the mostly secular Iraq treats women more equally than any of our allies. We used to be allied with the Taliban, and they kept their women in bags.

I assume you have no kids of your own. If you have any, I beg your pardon and change my assumption to your lacking the natural chemicals involved in compassion.

Here's what I don't know. The future. Here's what I do know. Children who die when bombs fall on them are children and they die because bombs fall on them. Whatever the causality, wherever you place the blame, whichever side you are on in this, if that doesn't cause you some discomfort, that our country is killing people, especially children, and I do apologize that their status as children makes a difference to me then I respectfully request you bite my bag.

Oh, an woah, dude, you talked with a co-worker who worked in the gulf? Did you know friend of my cousins gynacologist met Wayne Newton? The annecdotal evidence of a guy you met doesn't make you some sort of authority on war. And note, I'm not denying it, I don't have 'intel' like that. Do I think Sadam should go? I do. Do I think we need to start whole new policy of global pre-emption to achieve that goal. Hmmmmmm. Let me think a moment. Okay, I thought. If that's what it takes I don't think it's worth it. The list of barbaric dictators is too long, and most of them are our allies, so the chance of justifying regime change could be a tougher sell.

[Buffalo Tom]

Here's what I don't know. The future. Here's what I do know. Children who die when bombs fall on them are children and they die because bombs fall on them. Whatever the causality, wherever you place the blame, whichever side you are on in this, if that doesn't cause you some discomfort, that our country is killing people, especially children, and I do apologize that their status as children makes a difference to me then I respectfully request you bite my bag.

Max, if you are the lone liberal voice in the neo-conservative wilderness, then color me Davey Crockett and pass me a coon-skin cap, because I'll join your cause. That is the most brilliant quote I've read all day. :)

[Anonymous]

The war declared by this country will save children's lives in the long term. Saddam Hussein has killed many, many children. Sacrifice and pain are sometimes the only means to an end, and this should not be overlooked as a reality. No one knows the future, and no one wants to kill children. I do not believe the United States deliberately targets civilians, nor should anyone else. If you do believe that, you are only lying to yourselves.

[punkgrrrlie10]

That is why I love liberals. When it comes to keeping children away from porno, homosexuality, depravity, drugs, broken homes, and govt educational enslavement, we "fascist right-wingers" are the scourge of children everywhere, but when it comes to war in which we try to AVOID children dying, suddenly children's welfare means something. Blah.


This is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. If you actually knew your 1st amendment jurisprudence, these liberals that you speak of are the ones advocating the freedom of expression, porn, nude dancing and the freedom of playboy to broadcast all day. Republicans and conservatives are the ones trying to repress speech everywhere and are the ones sending these children to die. So shut the fuck up. You can't avoid children dying by killing them or sending them to be killed. So if you care to clarify, I'm all for it.

[mburbank]

I missed where I said we did it on purpose.

The phrase collateral damage was invented because there was a messy truth that needed a nice blanket pulled up over it's head.

Here's another phrase from the folks who came up with that one:

"We had to destroy the village in order to save it"

This is what happens in wars.

If I thought we were over there for purely altruistic purpose I would feel less sick about it, but I'd still feel sick. I just don't see any other reaction as appropriatte. I think any other reaction dehumanizes the other side, makes them 'the enemey'. And people believeing other people are 'the enemy' is what leads to war.

And I don't think we're over there for altruistic reasons. In fact, I almost hope we aren't. If we are, we're going to be very, very busy. And our allies will get mad when we invade them. And we'll have to cut china's most favored trading status. The last President to make any serious connection between our foreign policy and human rights was Carter. Remember him?

[Anonymous]

I remember a cowardly peanut farmer crying and praying in the garden, down on his knees broadcasting his weakness to the world, because he coundn't "diplomatically" negotiate the release of Americans being held hostage in Iran. I also remember Ronald Reagan counting down the days to his inauguration.... which incidentally, happened to be the day the hostages were released. Read your history my boy.

by the way......

BREACH..... hes in BREACH

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I remember a cowardly peanut farmer crying and praying in the garden, down on his knees broadcasting his weakness to the world, because he coundn't "diplomatically" negotiate the release of Americans being held hostage in Iran. I also remember Ronald Reagan counting down the days to his inauguration.... which incidentally, happened to be the day the hostages were released. Read your history my boy.


:lol

I don't know about "history," but your version would make a great mini-series. :lol

[VinceZeb]

This is the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. If you actually knew your 1st amendment jurisprudence, these liberals that you speak of are the ones advocating the freedom of expression, porn, nude dancing and the freedom of playboy to broadcast all day. Republicans and conservatives are the ones trying to repress speech everywhere and are the ones sending these children to die. So shut the fuck up. You can't avoid children dying by killing them or sending them to be killed. So if you care to clarify, I'm all for it.

If you really want to get down and dirty when it comes down to who "represses" free speech, liberals do it more than conseratives do in ANY situation. That is why most libertarians hate liberals with a hard core passion. Because they are hyprocriates when it comes to what they say they stand for.


So max, tell me how we solve problems when war comes into play? Are you going to shoot the person who breaks into your home or talk to him nice? Frankly, you can talk to him all day long, Ill go ahead and put a bullet in his thight.

And no, my friend served in the Gulf war and saw what Saddam does. But of course, since a child may have been hurt in anything that happens in a war, you must reject it all. People die every day, even kids. Sorry that it has to happen but I didnt create reality. Im suprised your lungs dont flood full of blood from your bleeding-heart ways.

[mburbank]

Hey, Rambo, how come you ain't on the front lines, puttin' a bullet in that bad ole saddams thigh? I mean, you seem pretty manly, I'm surprised Special Forces hasn't latched onto a buck like you.

How do we solve problems when war comes into play? Well, one great way is to not invade another country. No ones asked me, but when we pushed the Iraqis out of Kuwait, I was for it. I was pretty much against the 'jobs jobs jobs' rational put forth by Poppys administration, but there was a coalition, it was backed by the UN and Iraq were clearly agressors.

When we invaded Panama to arrest a single man who never would have been in power had not te CIA hired him (and Poppy was the director of the CIA) I was really against it. An entire shanty town burned to the ground and two hundred civillians died. We promised to rebuild the neigborhood. To date we hve not done so.

And see, kids do die every day, but those who die from having American Bombs dropped on them might not if American bombs weren't dropped on. And yes, fuckbucket, my heart DOES bleed when innocent kids die. It seems a shame yours does not. Has your doctor checked to see if you have one?

[Anonymous]

maybe we would of worked with panama, had carter not given it away

[Ronnie Raygun]

"Hey, Rambo, how come you ain't on the front lines, puttin' a bullet in that bad ole saddams thigh?"

What aren't you a human shield in BAG DAD!

[Anonymous]

For your information Max - not everyone CAN serve. I tried to go into the military right after high school. I was about ten minutes from being sworn in, when I was told I could not serve because of my eyesight. So, what does that mean? I can't hold my stance?

[mburbank]

Not at all. You offered, right?

There are lots of active military on this site. You will note, I have never once said anything negative to them about their service.

I have to date only made a comment about joining up when people are full of bluster and postureing.

And, hink and Zev, naldo knows I've already adressed this question. For the benefit of people who can actually enage in discourse, I will again.

Since I think our foreign policy may well lead to WWIII, perhaps I should be in Bagdad. There are several reasons I'm not. One, I would not want to give the impression I was pro Saddam. He's loathsome and while I don't think it's anywhere near worth the cost of wporld destabalization, his removal is the only silver linning I see on this cloud. Two, it would be a purely symbollic gesture as my presence their would stop nothing, and the weight of the gesture would matter very little. Three, quite selfishly, I don't want to die, and I don't want to end up in a prison or tried for treason. I love my family and am not brave enough to die to make a point.

I think my reasons play fairly well against Naldo's stated reason; "They don't need me."

[VinceZeb]

I wish I could have served when I was younger. Now that I am thinner and a lot more healthy, I may join the Navy as a Nuclear Officer. So I guess I can be a man then after I join up. You know, a man? Something your wife won't know about unless she pays me a visit.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the miniscule little kids that die from bombs is far less than the kids who have suffered from Iraqi dictatorship. When Saddam is gone, kids wont worry about becoming orphans, they wont have their eyes gouged out, they wont grow up to be raped for being dissenters, they wont have to worry, hopefully, about ANY of that.

I feel sorry for your children for having such an air-headed pussy as a father.

[sspadowsky]

Those are the lowest, most ignorant, irrelevan, and pointless remarks I've ever seen anyone make on this board, and that's saying something.

Vince, you are completely full of shit, and lower than a snake's nutsack.
________
Gang bang sex (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/21/gang-bang/videos/1)

[VinceZeb]

Yep, I am full of shit for hoping the children of Iraq don't have to go through the hell of living under the Butcher of Baghdad and for pointing out the fruitless arguments of a bleeding-heart.

[mburbank]

I wish you well in your service, an honorable choice. I would not be so picky as to limmit yourself to a Nuclear Submarine officer. There are many fine opportunities in our armed services and they all serve. You might want to work your way up to officer, even if you are "Thinner" and "Healthier"

"You know, a man? Something your wife won't know about unless she pays me a visit. "

Good one! Funny, quick and full of the American Virtues we so hope will be adopted by those we liberate.

"I feel sorry for your children for having such an air-headed pussy as a father."

That's nice, and I'm sure they appreciatte it.

Can I get an Outside opinion? Naldo, would you say Vince here is demonstrating a "Love of what America Stands for" when he offers to have sex with my wife, spends thought on my own sexual potency and sheds his saracstic pitty on my children?

[VinceZeb]

Actually, I would not have sex with your wife. That is adultery.

I really do pity your children. That is not being sarcastic.

I have had another offer about being in a ChemBio unit. Depends on where my life leads me. I may possibly run for office, or get in for a radio show if get the Ace I need for the full house.


I also enjoy the fact that you all can dish insults, but throw one out and all of a sudden the seriousness sets in.

[Protoclown]

You disgust me.

[Buffalo Tom]

I may possibly run for office

Uh, unless Mayor McCheese decides to step down, the leadership of McDonald Playland is closed to you. Also, you can rule out International Court Jester, as that position is going to be occupied by Dubya for the forseeable (and, I'll wager, unforseeable) future. Don't get me wrong. Your preposterous moralizing was amusing for about 15 seconds, which is about the same length of time I find the futile efforts of a moth bashing against a light bulb amusing before I get bored.

However, you may want to try to run for the position of Sanitation Manager in Dumbass, USA. Given you are the only constituent of that town, it should be a landslide victory.

Hmmm, on second thought, given the obvious boob that you are, you might want to invest your campaign money in a good campaign manager, like James Carville.

[VinceZeb]

I disgust a lot of people. Your point?

Oh wow, I got insulted by someone who resides in America, Jr. Go back to being a nice little socialist trooper in your unappreciative country.

[Protoclown]

OH NO, BUFFALOTOM GOT INSULTED BY RONNIE JR. :rolleyes

[VinceZeb]

Im junior to no one. But yes, I did throw a lame insult towards him. He has to live in Canada, so I feel life has insulted him enough.

[ItalianStereotype]

maybe we would of worked with panama, had carter not given it away

that was part of the original treaty TR signed with panama, we would lease it until 1979 and would remain present in the defense of the canal until the year 2000.

[Buffalo Tom]

Oh wow, I got insulted by someone who resides in America, Jr. Go back to being a nice little socialist trooper in your unappreciative country.

Is that the best you can sling, cowboy? Stealing jokes from a Simpsons episode? I doubt, then, your fitness for running for office, as such a task in politics often involves a certain amount of verbal saavy. Of course, I'm leaving aside your fitness for membership in the human race, which is really poor, but I digress.

Oh, and this 'little socialist' takes pride in my country's public welfare programs. At the very least we don't have to prove we have insurance to get medical treatment. When you think about it, moving up here would be beneficial for a person like you. You could get all the brain medication that mental defectives like you require in their daily treatment without any trouble.

[Buffalo Tom]

Im junior to no one.

No, you're not. You are your own man.

Of course, I'm using man in the LOOSEST of terms, in the sense that you possess male genitalia.

Well, one part, at least. You clearly have no balls, resorting to personal slanders against people who are opposed to your beliefs.

[VinceZeb]

Thanks for the cowboy compliment. I do appreciate that.

I do have great verbal skills. I just chose to be rude and throw insults to people that are obviously idiotic. I will try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.

I don't take pride in any welfare programs, and that already proves you are an idiot. Why didn't Tom Green go to Canada for his testicular cancer surgery? Because your system is suck-ass. All your big celebs come HERE for their serious doctorial issues. You must enjoy that people who make money have it taken away to pay for someone who didn't have brain one in their head to be able to save and buy their OWN insurance in case they would get health problems.

I am not speaking about the unfortuante that can not afford healthcare. I am talking about the lazyfucks that would rather put rims on their car instead of buying insurance.

[Buffalo Tom]

Thanks for the cowboy compliment. I do appreciate that.

Actually, I meant COW BOY. A boy (because your infantile prattling shows how immature you are) who is a cow (because of your bovine-like tendency to follow the rest of the neo-conservative herd who have clamoured for this unjustified war).

I do have great verbal skills. I just chose to be rude and throw insults to people that are obviously idiotic. I will try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.

Well, chip, I'll make you a deal. I'll take your posts more seriously and stop patronizing you like an exasperated mother patronizes a whining child on a mall shopping trip, if you post a cogent and well-reasoned argument.


I don't take pride in any welfare programs, and that already proves you are an idiot. Why didn't Tom Green go to Canada for his testicular cancer surgery? Because your system is suck-ass.

So taking pride in showing compassion to your fellow citizens is idiotic? This coming from a guy whose major salvo against the Canadian health care system is an anecdote about Tom Green? Excuse me while I go buy some new pants, because I busted my gut in incredulous laughter.

Keep trying, Howdy Doody. These shots you take from your intellectual popgun are really amusing to the rest of us.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Actually, I would not have sex with your wife. That is adultery.

:lol

VinceZeb is the greatest thing to ever happen to these boards! :lol


I also enjoy the fact that you all can dish insults, but throw one out and all of a sudden the seriousness sets in.

Find me an insult that even comes CLOSE to what you just said, and I'll give you a cigar!!!

Keep it up Vince, you serve conservatism well !!! :lol

EDIT: . I may possibly run for office

HOLY CRAP! Can I PLEASE intern for you!!? What's your platform like??? Does it onvolve internment camps???

[mburbank]

I think Vince is a character. It was that bit about his biochem offer and running for office. Over the top. Up till then I believed in him.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Thanks for ruining my day. :(

[mburbank]

YOU ARE SO WELCOME!

[glowbelly]

i wanna fuck vince

[mburbank]

You can't. That would be copraphilia.

[glowbelly]

are you trying to repress me? ARE YOU?! >:

[mburbank]

Always, baby. I need to after Vincey-poo impugned my manhood.

[Vibecrewangel]

Please don't knock welfare. Knock the people who abuse it.

If it wasn't for welfare my family would have been on the street. Okay on the street for a longer time.

My retired grandmother could not possibly have raised three grandchildren without welfare and medi-cal. And before you ask.....we are all grown, none of us are on welfare, no children, all making a living on our own.

Like many other things, the concept of the welfare system WAS sound. It has been badly implemented over the years, and is more often abused than not.

[VinceZeb]

There is a difference when it comes to welfare to the people who truly are stuck in such a sucky situation that they can do nothing but, then there are the waste of space idiots who take my hard earned tax dollars and give it to some druggie so they can go get fucked up behind a 7-11 garbage bin.

Welfare is one of the items responsable for keeping minorities down in the dumps as well. When I was a young teenage liberal (which is the same as saying I was a clueless idiot), I used to think that welfare was the only thing that kept black people going because of the "racist" coporate America. A teacher turned me on to some books by Larry Elder, Walter Williams, and other famous black men who then showed me and convinced me in quite a stirring fasion that welfare hurts the people it tries to help by giving people something for nothing and instilling laziness and a false feeling of entitlement onto minorities in America.


Oh, to update the biochem offer. There is a group, I believe it is called the Dragon Soliders or something of that nature... 320somethingth Regimen that does the biochem detection in major cities. Guy was hanging the flyers out and I talked to him. Thought it was pretty neat and gave it a look through, since he thought I may be a good fit.

And yes, Id love to run for office. Would be great for my city or state, whichever office Id run for.

[Protoclown]

Much as I would like to hope this pompous ass is a character, Max, as far as I can tell, he's not. At least, he's the only person who has posted from his IP address.

[VinceZeb]

I have said time and time again that this is no character, no charade. There are a lot more people like me than you think. If you ever associated outside your limited social circle you would see it for yourself.

[mburbank]

You can get lots of two dimensional characters if you have the right cookie cuter! I think he's cute, can we keep him? I'll take him for walks and borrow an electron microscope so we can have him fixed!

[VinceZeb]

Oh yeah, Max is just so original and thanks outside the box! :rolleyes

I wish I could be as effeminate as max. Then I could see the world through the eyes of a "real" human being.

[mburbank]

I wish you could to. Then your cellmate wouldn't have needed to waste valuable ink tattooing that woman on your back.

Vincey. Honestly. We're all friends here. You're Rough Trade. Anyone could see it. Nothing oozes transgressive gay pheramones like a good "Kill 'em all let God sort 'em out" faux attitude like yours. Mmmmm-mmm! THAT's officer material.

Either that or your kind of pasty faced and stringy and with a nice gray green monitor tan. Bark for me baby. Your I-mockery's own angry little tea cup poddle. Put your dog sweater on. It's COLD in here.

Now write me an essay on what it feels like to be taken less seriously than Ronnie Reagan, tough guy.

[VinceZeb]

Wow. I love your posts max. Good way to inflate your ego. I couldn't care less about being taken seriously by this message board. I just like arguing with idiots. Besides, when you aint got nothing else to do, its pretty damn fun. I don't have a kill em all let God sort them out policy. Sorry that you believe your own misinformation.

Actually, I am pretty fit and have a decent tan. Now, if you would like to throw up any more baseless sterotypes, go right ahead. Make yourself look more idiotic and elitists.

[mburbank]

Grrrrrrowf! I LOVE it when you say 'inflate'!

Fit AND tan!

He 'works' at a private school and he's got an 'offer' to join a chem bio unit, ladies! Then it's off to 'officer training' and 'elected office'! Hitch your wagon to a star while you've still got time!

[VinceZeb]

Man, if i spent all my time trying to decypher your misinformation, I would end up having a chair molded to my ass.

Yes, I am fit by my standards. A hell of a lot better than I used to be, and yes, I went out and got my first tan in a long time. Had a nice day, decided to get one.

I am in admissions at a private college. The offer was a offer made to anyone, but I talked to the guy privately for a bit. Like I said before.

And yes, I would like to go into radio or politics. If this am station deal works out for me, Ill post the on-line listen area if they have one.

Some of us like the idea of being able to pull the cart, to see the world in the direction of freedom and equality. Some, such as yourself, are set firm in sitting around and bitching about everything, but never doing anything with any substance to change the world.

[mburbank]

I'm not sure what all you're saying, Dreamboat, but when you talk about Molding a chair to your ass and your tan, well, lets just say there's lot of folks here you could hang a coat off right now.

And when you say "Bitching"?

Mmm-mmm-mmm-mmm-MMM!!

You can 'pull' our 'cart' any day, officer!

CHANGE MY WORLD, VINCIE! CHANGE IT!!!

[VinceZeb]

I love the fact that you can't argue a statement I made, so you just go the knuckle-dragging route of cheap insults.

[mburbank]

Pucker up, Officer.

[Jeanette X]

I remember a cowardly peanut farmer crying and praying in the garden, down on his knees broadcasting his weakness to the world, because he coundn't "diplomatically" negotiate the release of Americans being held hostage in Iran. I also remember Ronald Reagan counting down the days to his inauguration.... which incidentally, happened to be the day the hostages were released. Read your history my boy.

by the way......

BREACH..... hes in BREACH

So...do you mean that the hostages got released because of Reagan? As far as I remember, it was Jesse Jackson who did the most to get them released.

[quote="VinceZeb"]. I may possibly run for office, quote]

Well Christ, I sure as hell hope that you treat debating opponents with more respect than I've seen here.

[Jeanette X]

I wish I could have served when I was younger. Now that I am thinner and a lot more healthy, I may join the Navy as a Nuclear Officer. So I guess I can be a man then after I join up. You know, a man? Something your wife won't know about unless she pays me a visit.

Yeah, I'm sorry, the miniscule little kids that die from bombs is far less than the kids who have suffered from Iraqi dictatorship. When Saddam is gone, kids wont worry about becoming orphans, they wont have their eyes gouged out, they wont grow up to be raped for being dissenters, they wont have to worry, hopefully, about ANY of that.

I feel sorry for your children for having such an air-headed pussy as a father.

If you really think that everything in Iraq will be be fine once Saddam is gone, you are mistaken. Kids won't worry about becoming orphans? They will unless order is restored and infrastructure is rebuilt. They won't grow up to be raped for being dissenters? Even in places where the government is democratic and friendly to the United States that happens.

Sorry that you believe your own misinformation.

Look, if what I believe is misinformation, then please do me the favor of showing me how I am misinformed so that I may better understand issues and thus do more good. If you really care about this country, you should try to establish a dialouge and show me in a non-condescending way how I am mistaken in my opinions. If you get me to change my opinion on something, then it would only better your cause.

[Anonymous]

Jesus! So that's why I'm being raped!




At least I know now.

[mburbank]

Oh, Man! That goes on my list with "Cardigan Manditory"!

[VinceZeb]

Jeanette, You know what I mean. They have a lot less likely chance of that stuff happening with Saddam gone. Of course that is what we are going to do. We are going to help build up the region, from what has been told and reported.

And I did not mean this misinformation screed towards you. I cant remember who I said it to, but it it definently was not you.

[Jeanette X]

Okay...thats relieving at least...

[VinceZeb]

And to calm whatever fears you seem to have, I am pretty well-spoken and tactful when it comes to political debates... that is, if I am talking to people that actually can think. I take the road of my opponet if I know to begin with there is no way he is trying to convince me that he/she is RIGHT, but is just trying to discredit the FACTS *I* display and give.

If we found out right now that this war was just a way for the U.S. to invade and become the next Great Roman Empire, and there was sufficient proof to back up that statement, I would be against Bush and the administration. I dont flip flop when it comes to who is president. I don't like Clinton because he is a proven adulter and liar and rapist. But during times of war, I supported our troops and supported the battles that were right. Iraq was right. Kosovo was genocide by the U.N. and Sloberdom. But the thing is, there isn't a big outcry for those poor muslims that got slaughtered or the christians that were as well. Because Clinton was president.

And people didn't go out and scream about it like they did now. That is why I am, if I had to describe myself, an independant conserative with libertarian leanings. Every idea that I have always believed has always went along with those groups. If there is a liberal one, I cant find it. If I had it, id admit it. BUt I dont like the left because if I had to choose who is going to fuck up the country faster, Id rather be on the freight train (Repugs) and not the bullet train (Democrats).

I do appreciate your geninue open-mindedness to views perhaps opposite of your own and that you don't resport to open mockery and slander. That is admireable.

[Anonymous]

Are you making fun of me, Max? :(

'Cause if you're here for the raping, well, all I can say is 'get in line.'

[Protoclown]

Clinton is a proven rapist? That's news to me. Seriously.

When did this happen?

[Anonymous]

When DIDN'T IT?

[Pub Lover]

...you don't resport to open mockery and slander.

...

[VinceZeb]

Yes, the pun there was intended.

Juanita Broaddrick. Violated by Clinton. Others could not be proven. The ones that weren't proven have soild evidence, even without Clinton's proven track record of being a Commandment-breaker.

[Anonymous]

Our current administration is breaking a handful as we speak.

[VinceZeb]

Last time I checked, Bush didnt leave his Bible in the closet after his sunday photo shoot.

And if you are trying to talk about Thou Shalt not Kill, dont try. The actual text shows it as Thou Shalt Not Murder. And in the bible, murder is the unjustified intentional slaying of another man or beast for no rhyme or reason.

[FS]

:lol here we go again.

[VinceZeb]

Break out a Torah and look it up in the original text the Torah was written in. Says it plain as day. If it were Thou Shalt No Kill, Id say so.

[Protoclown]

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S OIL FIELDS :(

[VinceZeb]

Ok Proto, where does it say anywhere with viable proof, quotes or documentation that Bush is only doing this because he wants the oil fields? If he wanted the oil fields, why didn't he invade Kuwait? Why doesn't he say "Fuck Congress" and drill up in the barren wastelands of ANWAR? Why didn't he just make secret payments to Saddam for oil?

If you can give me some evidence of the fact that bush is doing this for ONLY for oil, I would most likely change my opinion on the causes for this war.

[Anonymous]

Anyone can 'justify' the murder of another person, even with something as silly as 'I was in the mood.'

But according to your little religion, only God can judge. Awfully presumptuous of your white knight that he has a direct channel to the will of the almighty. Oh, biscuits; isn't pride another sin?

*Laws, I forgot that the Pope and his own church told him that if he invaded Iraq, he'd go in without God. So if it isn't justified by Jay-sus...

[mburbank]

Chojin;

I am totally not making fun of you. And I'll leave my raping to Clinton. He's a PROVEN commodity.

[Protoclown]

Vince, I never said that Bush was going into Iraq merely for oil. You need to calm yourself down and realize that I was ONLY JOKING.

[mburbank]

Hey, Vincey, you break out your torah and tell me if you even KNOW what language it was 'originally' written in. You read that language? No? Where's you get the translation and the interpretation? My guess? Same narrow minded place Naldo did. Oh, Oh, wait, you got it while studying for the Priesthood, no doubt.

So you read the commandment as God being okay with 'collateral damage' as long as it wasn't intentional, eh? Where do you suppose the Big G draws his line? If we accidentally kill a few innocents while waging just war, that's fine. When we drop bombs on wedding parties we get a waiver on sin, because we didn't mean to kill those folks. When we drop a bomb on an Afghani becuase he's TALL and Osama bin weforgethisname is TALL, OOPSY! Kill some Candadians or Britts in 'friendly fire' and "All in a good cause, my children, have some more GO pills!" sayeth the Lord, But my God, Clinton (whom by the way I loathe) put his pecker in someone he wasn't married to, and GOD IS REALLY MAD!!! Newsflash, chumly, what Clinton did may be demeaning and mean as hell to his wife and kid, it may disgrace the oval ofice but sooner his weiner in the wrong hole than a FUCKING DAISYCUTTER. If you really believe that's the way God's law operates and your right, then God needs to rethink his priorities. Thankfully, I'm fairly sure God doesn't like it when you kill innocent people, even if you didn't mean to. I don't think he likes it if Sadam does it, but I don't think he likes it if we do either. My guess. The whole fucking human race makes God pretty disapointed.

What's the matter, didn't Commander and Chief Clinton seem like a CRAZY motherfucker when he was, say, fucking? Do you need to kill lots of people to be the kind of CRAZY motherfucker you dig?