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AChimp
Jun 29th, 2005, 10:29 AM
http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=e0905a7a-c1c9-47ad-8e1e-f35ccd7b6a6f

Canada approves same-sex marriage

Alexander Panetta
Canadian Press


Tuesday, June 28, 2005


OTTAWA -- It was fought in courtrooms, in legislatures, in street protests, and one of the most turbulent debates in Canadian history was settled Tuesday with a vote in Parliament.

The House of Commons voted 158 to 133 to adopt controversial legislation that will make Canada the third country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage.

Several Liberals marked the occasion by invoking the memory of their party's philosopher king, Pierre Trudeau.

It was the late Liberal prime minister who decriminalized homosexuality in 1969, and whose Charter of Rights and Freedoms became the legal cudgel that smashed the traditional definition of marriage.

Barely two years ago the Liberal government was still fighting same-sex couples in courts across the land.

It changed its tune amid an onslaught of legal verdicts in eight provinces that found traditional marriage laws violated the charter's guarantee of equality for all Canadians.

"(This) is about the Charter of Rights," Prime Minister Paul Martin said earlier Tuesday.

"We are a nation of minorities. And in a nation of minorities, it is important that you don't cherry-pick rights.

"A right is a right and that is what this vote tonight is all about."

But there was no unanimity even within Liberal ranks. More than two dozen Liberal MPs voted against the controversial Bill C-38, to cheers from the Tory caucus.

One even exiled himself to the backbenches to vote against the bill. Joe Comuzzi resigned his cabinet seat Tuesday as minister for northern Ontario's economic development.

The House immediately adjourned for the summer after the same-sex vote, and won't meet again until Sept. 26 -- ending one of the most tumultuous sessions in Canadian parliamentary history.

The same-sex marriage bill will become official once it receives approval in the Senate, likely within days. With it the barriers to gay and lesbian weddings will tumble in Alberta, P.E.I., Nunavut and the Northwest Territories -- the last jurisdictions where courts have not yet struck down the marriage law.

The legislation applies to civic weddings at public places, like city halls and courthouses. No religious groups will be forced to sanctify same-sex marriages if they don't want to.

But Conservatives promise the debate isn't over yet.

Leader Stephen Harper said he will bring back the same-sex marriage law for another vote if he wins the next election.

"There will be a chance to revisit this in a future Parliament," Harper said. "Our intention is to have a free vote."

How Harper might handle the issue in future is unclear since almost every provincial and territorial government has made gay marriage legal.

The Liberals said Harper has only one tool at his disposal: the Charter's notwithstanding clause, an escape hatch which no federal government has ever used.

"They're going to have to at least be honest with the people," said Justice Minister Irwin Cotler.

"They're going to have to acknowledge that they want to override the (Charter of Rights), override constitutional-law decisions in nine jurisdictions in this country, override a unanimous decision of the Supreme Court of Canada, override the rule of law in this country."

Cotler now occupies Pierre Trudeau's former Justice Department office, with a poster of the late justice minister-turned-prime minister overlooking his desk.

The Tories weren't sharing their fond memories of Trudeau.

Alberta MP David Chatters lamented what he described as Canada's "moral decay" and blamed Trudeau's promise of a just society as the start of that decay in the 1960s.

But an Irish-born rookie Liberal MP was quoting Trudeau's famous line about the state having no place in the bedrooms of the nation.

Michael Savage spoke poignantly about a member of his own family, and described the tolerance that he says makes Canada special.

"I have not compromised my faith in supporting this legislation. I have embraced it," he said.

"The fact that we (in Canada) are among the first is not something we should hide. It's something we should celebrate. . . .

"(We are) a nation of equality. A nation of strength. A nation of compassion. A nation that believes we're stronger together than we are apart. And a nation where we celebrate equality. . . .

"We will send a statement to the world that in Canada gays and lesbians will not be considered second-class citizens."

One Tory MP scoffed at the Liberals' self-proclaimed defence of human rights. He said the government has failed to protect the rights of children by refusing to toughen child-pornography laws or by raising the age of sexual consent above 14.

"I'm sick and tired of hearing people on that side of the House talking about rights, rights," Myron Thompson said.

"I can point to dozens of things we've seen in the last 12 years where they have refused to give rights to certain individuals."

In the last two years, same-sex marriage has gone from being legally feasible to a fait accompli.

After a series of legal challenges the walls started tumbling down on June 10, 2003.

The Ontario Court of Appeal ruled in favour of Michael Leshner and Michael Stark, a gay Toronto couple, and ordered public institutions like courthouses and city halls to immediately begin issuing same-sex marriage licences.

Scores of same-sex American couples came to Canada to be married. Thousands of Canadians exercised their new right.

The Ontario verdict became written in stone days later, when then-prime minister Jean Chretien announced he would throw in the towel in the fight against gay and lesbian couples.

The federal government refused to appeal the Ontario ruling, and the verdict was subsequently repeated in courts in British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland.

When Martin became prime minister, he avoided discussing the politically sensitive issue and punted it off until after the June 2004 federal election.

But he came out strongly in favour of same-sex marriage in the dying days of the campaign. His Liberals were re-elected with a minority government.
© Canadian Press 2005

kahljorn
Jun 29th, 2005, 01:31 PM
I really want to move to canada. "It changed its tune amid an onslaught of legal verdicts in eight provinces that found traditional marriage laws violated the charter's guarantee of equality for all Canadians. "
That's great.

Did you hear how the supreme court ruled that cannabis clubs were illegal, and even if it is legal within a state the federal government can still arrest you? That's so stupid, we basically have two sets of laws. One that says regular police can't fuck with you, and another that says the federal government can arrest you. I don't even understand how that's possible. Our law system is obviously falling apart.

Ant10708
Jun 29th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Federal law is more powerful than state law.

kahljorn
Jun 29th, 2005, 06:00 PM
No.

ItalianStereotype
Jun 30th, 2005, 12:17 AM
actually, yes. yes it is.

Immortal Goat
Jun 30th, 2005, 12:32 AM
It is, but it wasn't designed to be that way. In fact, it was SUPPOSED to be equal, but that has changed dramatically over the course of a couple of decades.

ziggytrix
Jun 30th, 2005, 02:40 PM
Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Spain gave gays the marriage today too! WTF?

kahljorn
Jun 30th, 2005, 02:54 PM
What Immortal Goat said... it's the "United states", the idea is that each state or group of people can have their own laws, which makes for different types of states better suited for the people who live there and the type of businesses there. Hence, "United states", Not, "Federal Country".
Didn't you pay attention in school?

ziggytrix
Jun 30th, 2005, 02:57 PM
The Civil War kinda changed all that tho.

Rez
Jun 30th, 2005, 08:16 PM
actually, yes. yes it is.

only when it really wants to be though.
just like how it's company-wide policy that you're supposed to wash your hands before you start making pizza at round table, but since no-one really gives a toss and hates everybody, they give you pee pizza at the round table here in Davis

AChimp
Jun 30th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Federal law is stronger than provincial law up here. We're all pinko commies.

ItalianStereotype
Jun 30th, 2005, 10:24 PM
I did pay attention in school, which is where I learned that we have a federal government, not a confederate.

it's simple. whenever there is a conflict between state law and federal law, federal law supersedes state law.

kahljorn
Jun 30th, 2005, 11:22 PM
Yes, but there's alot of laws placed onto federal law, and their rulings are sporadic. There's also something that "Supersedes" federal law. Rock paper scissors stuff. Federal law isn't supposed to be there to decide who can marry who and stuff

The One and Only...
Jun 30th, 2005, 11:39 PM
Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That Amendment hasn't applied since the New Deal.

Emu
Jun 30th, 2005, 11:58 PM
The second amendment hasn't really applied since the Revolution, but people still bitch about that.

ziggytrix
Jul 1st, 2005, 11:20 AM
They both still apply. You just aren't interpreting them correctly.

Zebra 3
Jul 1st, 2005, 02:49 PM
:lol - Harper actually imagines himself as PM!

Yggdrasill
Jul 1st, 2005, 03:38 PM
I officialy declare Canada land of the free.

KevinTheOmnivore
Jul 1st, 2005, 07:49 PM
This is the most boring thread about gay people EVER.

Dr.Merlin
Jul 10th, 2005, 09:42 AM
Excellent, with the Liberal Exodus to Canada, there will be more land for us Evil conservatives to nab up!
mwa ha hah ahahahha!

have fun in the great cold north.

be sure to write.
just, not in all the media outlets that misinform the sheeple on a daily basis.

Emu
Jul 10th, 2005, 01:16 PM
I don't think I'd want to live in a country full of liberals. It seems like they'd pass a lot of stupid laws just to piss America off.

Zebra 3
Jul 10th, 2005, 07:21 PM
have fun in the great cold north.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5111/mckenziebros4sk.gif

>: - The sign reads "Great White North," assclown!

Royal Tenenbaum
Jul 10th, 2005, 08:22 PM
Federal law is stronger than provincial law up here. We're all pinko commies.

Not in every circumstance. It merely depends on what jurisdiction it falls under. The Federal government couldn't do anything to stop gay civil unions, they merely controlled the domain of "marriage."