London asplode

[Spectre X]

People, London is getting shit blown up.

The entire public transportation system has been shut down.

Five explosions in the Tube, one bus blew up.

Two deaths confirmed, at least ninety people injured in one Tube station.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.tube/index.html

[Geggy]

Its going to be a good day for all the pubs in london.

but seriously, those assholes.....

[El Blanco]

CNN is reporting 10 confirmed dead and 190+ injured.

[AChimp]

Another small country will be bombed into submission after this, I think. Unless it turns out that the bombings are related to Africa, in which case I think they will just bomb Bono.

[ziggytrix]

I'm tellin you it's the French. They are pissed about not getting the 2012 Olympics in Paris.

[El Blanco]

Ya, but there are no reports of a pungent odor around the blast sites prior to the explosions.

But, seriously, someone pointed out that London has had lots of media because of the Olympic announcement. The attackers could have been waiting for that.

[Mockery]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/2086000/2086046.standard.jpg
:confused

[swimini]

Hi guys, dont worry Mock I am safe and sound (in case anyone hadn't realise this is Cherry by the way). Now despite what CNN might be claiming there is no official 'body count', and so far it seems that considering there were at least 7 seperate explosions the death toll is it a minimum. Rather the effect of the attack has been to bring central London to a standstill. The areas that the attacks took place are largley offices, although there are a lot of hotels there- so anyone who has anyone on holiday in London should try and check in with them. But as isaid earlier I have been watching the news solidly since 10am and there does not seems to be a high death toll, although a lot of people have sustained seriuos injuries. The BBC have just confirmed 2 deaths and 100 injured. One Arab website has a statment supposedly from 'al- quiada' claiming they made the attack in repsonse to British masacres of Muslims in Iraq.
The emergency services are doing a great job here and lets not forget London has dealt with this sort thing before and on a much more serous scale, my only hope now is that the attacks are over.

and without making light of this awful act, I also thought of disgruntled Parisians!

[Geggy]

I was just watching the new coverage on tv and I was amazed by the londonites' calm and nonchalant responses to the bombing, unlike the screaming americans on 9/11. I bet they're too tired and hungover to run around and scream.

Anyway I hope they get those son of a bitches who did this :fist

Edit: never mind, a friend emailed me and reminded me that the bombing is more common in london than it is in america. they went through hell in WWII and then the IRA have been bombing london for years. so that explains the indifferences.

[MetalMilitia]

Updates have said there where actually only 3 bombs in the underground system instead of 7. No news on whether they where suicide attacks or otherwise though.

I guess we can just be thankful it was not a chemical attack like the emergency services rehersed a year-or-so ago.

[Mad Melvin]

The death toll is now 45. :(

[El Blanco]

Scotlland Yard has confirmed 33 dead with more unconfirmed.

[Dole]

What a shitty day :( just when London was celebrating too.
My sis and her family were in central London, all ok thank fuck.
Hope we don't see the same reactionary madness over here that the US witnessed after 911.

[DamnthatDavid]

calm and nonchalant responses to the bombing, unlike the screaming americans on 9/11.

The people of Madrid ran around screaming.
Now, will Great Britian copy the pussy footed Spanish and back out of Iraq?

[sloth]

A bus exploded just round the corner from my mates work. He's more worried about getting home though - the underground is for most the only route in and out of the central london business district,so most of the commuting population is stranded.
From the tone of the prime minister's address it's unlikely things will get hysterical any time soon. Plus london has a history of having the fuck blown out of it by the irish; this is just a new unprecedented scale. It was my mum's birthday today too :( The card I'd got her read "hope your day is full of happy surprises" :(

[McClain]

Hope we don't see the same reactionary madness over here that the US witnessed after 911.

Are you referring to misplaced patriotism and horrible bumper stickers?

[Chojin]

http://planetwebdesign.com/americacries1agc.jpg

[Dole]

Are you referring to misplaced patriotism and horrible bumper stickers?

No..but now you mention it, I hope that doesnt happen either. I meant the random attacks on people of arab or muslim appearance.

[Chojin]

Does England have a national animal so I can make some funny bumper stickers? :<

[swimini]

take your pick Chojin, lion or lapdog, erm I mean bulldog

[Chojin]

http://www.popnko.com/imock/77nevaforget.jpg

[ziggytrix]

http://www.tigerfreund.de/english/2/lovely-lion.jpg

It's gonna be OK. :tear

[The One and Only...]

From what I've heard, Qaeda Al Jihad (or something like that) caused the bombings.

I love how Fox News just calls it "Al Qaeda in Europe" though. LOL.

[Ant10708]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh wait you are dumb.

Thats what they (the only group to claim responsibilty so far) called themselves. Well actually they are called ' Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organisation in Europe' but do you really want to hear Brit Hume say that 5 times over?



A series of bomb attacks on London's transport network has killed more than 30 people and injured about 350 others.

Three explosions on the Underground left 33 dead and an unknown number died in a blast on a double-decker bus.

UK Prime Minister Tony Blair promised the "most intense police and security service action to make sure we bring those responsible to justice".

An Islamist website has posted a statement - purportedly from al-Qaeda - claiming it was behind the attacks.

Mr Blair, who has returned to London from the G8 summit, also paid tribute to the stoicism and resilience of the people of London and said the terrorists must not be allowed to succeed.




Blast timeline
0851 Seven people die in a blast on a train 100 yards from Liverpool Street station
0856 21 people die in a blast on a train between Russell Square and King's Cross stations
0917 Five people die in blast on a train at Edgware Road station
0947 An unknown number die in a blast on a number 30 bus at Tavistock Place


All London Underground services have been suspended until at least Friday.

Bus services have resumed in central London (Zone One) with diversions in affected areas. Most mainline train stations are open.

Metropolitan Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick confirmed 33 people had died in the blasts on the Underground.

It's particularly barbaric that this has happened on a day when people are meeting to try to help the problems of poverty and Africa
Tony Blair


There were seven confirmed deaths after a blast at 0851 BST 100 yards into a tunnel from Liverpool Street station. The train was either a Central Line or Circle Line train.

And at 0917 BST an explosion on a train coming into Edgware Road underground station blew a hole through a wall onto another train in an adjoining platform.

Three trains were thought to be involved and there were five confirmed deaths so far, Mr Paddick said.

He said it was not yet known how many died in the bus blast at 0947 at the junction of Upper Woburn Place and Tavistock Square.

An unknown number died in the bus explosion
London Ambulance Service said it had treated 45 patients with serious or critical injuries including burns, amputations, chest and blast injuries and fractured limbs.

Some 300 more people were treated for minor injuries including lacerations and smoke inhalation, LAS assistant chief officer Russell Smith added.


Mr Paddick confirmed police were looking into whether the bus blast was the work of a suicide bomber.

But, he added: "It could as easily be an explosive device left on the bus as the work of a suicide bomber. We are not able to determine which it was yet."

He said no warning had been given before the blasts and that no-one had yet claimed to be behind them.

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said a previously unknown group calling itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organisation in Europe had claimed to be behind the attacks in a statement posted on an Islamist website.

The group's statement said the attacks were revenge for the "massacres" Britain was committing in Iraq and Afghanistan and that the country was now "burning with fear and panic", he added.


I hope everyone here hasn't lost anyone.

[The One and Only...]

I think that calling them Qaeda Al Jihad was more suitable than "Al Qaeda in Europe," which just sounds dumb.

Edit: Check this out.

British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_britain_explosions_1)

According to the Associated Press, a senior Israeli official said Scotland Yard told Israel minutes before the explosions that it had received warnings of possible terror attacks. Sky News says this has been denied by Scotland Yard. Sir Ian during his interview with Sky confirmed the absence of any specific intelligence. (http://www.juiceenewsdaily.com/0605/news/bombs.html?1120746381734)

Form your own conspiracy theories.

Edit: Sorry, I had to fix the URLs. Thank you mercedesrules on Anti-State for the articles.

[ziggytrix]

Sorry, too confusing for American general public. Al Qeada in Europe, it stays.

Al Qeada just means "The Base" in Arabic anyway. I don't think it safe to assume these guys were under orders from Osama bin Ladin or whatever.

[El Blanco]

So, far, it seems these weren't an official al Queda splinter group. Rather, they are some kind of wannabe fan club.

[Zebra 3]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/2086000/2086046.standard.jpg
:confused
:) - It's a guy with a banner in the background which reads "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED."

[GAsux]

I would suggest that it appears to be an Al Qeada like attack with multiple targets in various locations relatively simultaneously indicates a moderate level of sophistication.

But it's more significant that it's likely not the work of bin Laden. The possibility of it being a splinter group or copy cat organization is even more ominous because it demonstrates the reach of Al Qeada's message. It's one thing to be a sympathizer. It's another entirely to take up the cause on your own accord.

[Schimid]

A lot of people I've talked to are worried that this attack is just a diversionary tactic. Said that there's something much bigger coming than this, and it's going to hit someone real close to home. Somewhere like Washington.

I personally don't think so but, just putting it out there.

[Geggy]

Don't know if you're aware of this but there are few cells in london under al qaeda, supported by the fundamental islamic terrorists...and they suck ass. These bombings planned by the group shows we cannot back away from fighting it which has been ongoing since the 1970's.
God Bless London!

[McClain]

I meant the random attacks on people of arab or muslim appearance.

The media portrayed that to be a bigger deal than it truly was... Anyway, my friends and I only senslessly attacked one guy, and it turned out he was just a really funny looking Mexican. Ooops!

P.S. Chojin's creation is stellar.

[McClain]

I would suggest that it appears to be an Al Qeada like attack with multiple targets in various locations relatively simultaneously indicates a moderate level of sophistication.

But it's more significant that it's likely not the work of bin Laden. The possibility of it being a splinter group or copy cat organization is even more ominous because it demonstrates the reach of Al Qeada's message. It's one thing to be a sympathizer. It's another entirely to take up the cause on your own accord.

You should work for the CIA or NSA or sumpin'. You seem to have a handle on all the intel. Lemme guess... You've read When Terrorists Attack and three Washington Post articles on terrorist activity attribution?

[El Blanco]

It doesn't take a great deal of advanced intel to figure out that subway stations get crowded during the morning rush. Put together a crude explosive with common materials, drop it off at the station early in the morning with a timer, drop one off on the bus set to go off after the first couple go off (catches the people fleeing the subway station).

Look at what a couple of rednoecks in the backwoods like McVeigh and Nichols pulled off with a U-Haul truck, fertilizer and blasting caps.

[Mockery]

THIS JUST IN!

WASHINGTON D.C. (Reuters) - As punishment for the attacks in London today, U.S. officials are no longer allowing Saddam Hussein to eat Doritos.

Developing...

[kellychaos]

I get the feeling that some London-based muslim extremists have been praying for this opportunity like an obsessed sports fan awaits the all-star baseball game or ... gulp! ... Olympics to come to his hometown.

[McClain]

It doesn't take a great deal of advanced intel to figure out that subway stations get crowded during the morning rush. Put together a crude explosive with common materials, drop it off at the station early in the morning with a timer, drop one off on the bus set to go off after the first couple go off (catches the people fleeing the subway station).

Look at what a couple of rednoecks in the backwoods like McVeigh and Nichols pulled off with a U-Haul truck, fertilizer and blasting caps.

Dude what are you talking about?

[mburbank]

"The media portrayed that to be a bigger deal than it truly was... Anyway, my friends and I only senslessly attacked one guy, and it turned out he was just a really funny looking Mexican. Ooops! "

Now that made me feel better. And laugh.

Christopher Hitchens has a bellicose article already out about how no one should think this had anything to do with the invasion of Iraq. Say, that ws fast! I guess a big smartypants lie him not only knows everything, he's brillinat enough he only writes first drafts of articles.

[GAsux]

McClain,
Thanks for the flattery but you've gone too far. I simply watched MSNBC and attempted to re-state what Retired Col. Asswiperson said. But I appreciate your sentiments.

I don't recall claiming any credentials. I'm not really about the internet blowhard stuff. For ego's sake, however, I will suggest that I'd consider myself relatively educated on the subject.

[Chojin]

THIS JUST IN!

WASHINGTON D.C. (Reuters) - As punishment for the attacks in London today, U.S. officials are no longer allowing Saddam Hussein to eat Doritos.

Developing...
I'm ashamed to say that my country is so stupid that I can't tell if you're being serious or not.

[Spectre X]

When I first heard of this I actually made a Shaun of the Dead joke. Or rather, several.

"Don't say that!"
"Say what?"
"That!"
"What?"
"The T-word!"
"Why not?"
"Because it's ridiculous."

and

"London will be fine! It held it under the tap!"

[Ant10708]

[quote="The One and Only..."]I think that calling them Qaeda Al Jihad was more suitable than "Al Qaeda in Europe," which just sounds dumb.

How does Qaeda Al Jihad not sound dumb or make sense. Like someone already stated Al qaeda just means 'The base', not sure what qaeda al means.

It most likly wasn't funded by bin laden but alot wanna be martyers tend to just franchise the base name.

I was wondering maybe if they had similar things set up in the other cities bidding for the olympics. Just seems weird it happened the day after we find out London won it.

[swimini]

when you had your terrorist attack the british people were very sensitive to your pain. In fact I came to your country soon after the terrorists to show I was not afraid, and together with many mockers I spent my hard earned cash in your big apple to help it get back on its feet. You know I did my bit to help heal your countires pain, and when we finally get our attack what do you call it- 'a diversionary tactic'. cheers for the sympathy schimid!
[/quote]

[swimini]

oh, but of course I must say thanx to my beloved Chojin and the delightful ziggy for the pictures. thats the sort of thing that can heal a nation.

[Ant10708]

Humor can actually be better than medicine sometimes or in this case candle vigils. Ziggy post that rampage 9/11 picture so he doesn't feel like you're just a British hater. :)

And the other guy said he heard it might of been a diversionary tactic for a much bigger attack. 9/11 was much more devasting then today's London explosions. So 40 + people getting killed could be a diversion for a much more deadly attack in the near future. This isn't London's 9/11. I fear that is still to come. Madrid bombings took out how many people? Over 200?

[Raize]

Might be a bad time to bring it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor

[swimini]

he who? me? I am a she.
and there aren't any british haters on this boad are they? last I knew at least 4 of the boys would drop their pants for an U.K accent. and I mean 'pants' in the British sense.

you know its kind of weird, I think the last time I posted this much as after 9/11. why do i feel drawn to this bunch of misfits and losers in times of national crisis? it makes me feel dirty :wah

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Well hey, bad timing, but damn, how are ya Cherry..!? Had no idea it was you.

This really sucks. Dole, Cherry, I have no idea what your proximity to all this was, but I hope all is well, and that all your friends and loved ones are safe.

A couple of things:

1. Chimpy didn't get the appropriate recognition for his Bono comment. Bravo! :lol

2. In his statement to the press on the bombings, President Bush literally said "the war on terror is on." Now, a part of me wants to pump my fist at this in solidarity and yell "cowboy up!" or something, but couldn't he have said something a bit more solemn and diplomatic....?

3. I heard that the chief Islamic spiritual leader in London has one eye and hooks for hands? Are muslims pirates in the UK, or just very similar....?

[swimini]

ha ha Kevin, was looking forward to your input on this one. the 'pirate' you refer to is not a muslim leader, in fact he has been banned from preaching at the Finnsbury Park mosque in North London. he contiuned to preach outside it but last i heard he had been arrested- no prizes for guessing on what charges. his name is abu hamza, and yes he often wears a hook for a hand.

[doopa]

I'm selfishly happy everyone we know over there is ok, but am sad it happened it made my stomach sink. i haeard bush speaking this morning saying something about "spreading our ideology" over the globe as a means of fighting the terrorists and again he manages to creep me out. I was watching cnn this morning and a local station. I thought it was a funny sort of akward coverage of it because it seemed like they were trying to decide it's importance and if they should be covering it non-stop

[Ant10708]

He lost his hand fighting the infidels in Afghanstan too!

In other terrorist related news: Ihab el-Sherif was murdered by Al Qaeda group in Iraq according to an Internet statement on Thursday, claiming he represented a "tyrannical" government allied to the "Jews and Crusaders."

"We al Qaeda in Iraq announce that the judgment of God has been implemented against the ambassador of the infidels, the ambassador of Egypt. Oh enemy of God, Ihab el-Sherif, this is your punishment in this life," said the group, led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

The group posted a video showing the hostage speaking but did not show the actual killing.

On the video, Sherif appeared blindfolded. He identified himself by name and said he was the head of the Egyptian mission in Iraq and also carried the rank of ambassador at the Egyptian foreign ministry.

"Previously...I was deputy to the Egyptian ambassador to Israel," Sherif said on the video in which he appeared alone without militants.

Al Qaeda Organization for Holy War in Iraq said it would provide details of Sherif's interrogation.

"The ambassador of the infidels gave information that showed the infidelity of his regime and his allegiance to the Jews and Christians," the group said in a statement.

The Sunni Muslim group announced on Wednesday that it would kill Sherif and also warned that other envoys would face the same fate. It has in the past beheaded foreign captives, including two Americans and a Briton.

Zarqawi's group is one of the leaders of a bloody insurgency against U.S. forces and the American-backed Iraqi government. Most of the hostages taken by the group have been killed.


OAO tell Zarqawi you think Al Qaeda in Iraq sounds dumb. I'm sure he will agree with you ;)

[Ant10708]

John Titor's early prediction comes from faxes that he (allegedly) sent the ArtBell show in 1998: [1]

1. Y2K will be a disaster leading to martial law and deaths. Government efforts to remedy the situation fail.

Now for the future you might want to know about. Y2K is a disaster. Many people die on the highways when they freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather. The government tries to keep power by instituting marshall law but all of it collapses when their efforts to bring the power back up fail. A few years later communial government system is developed after the constitution takes a few twists. China retakes Taiwan. Israel wins the largest battle for their life and Russia is covered in Nuclear snow from their collapsed reactors.

Discussion: John Titor's predictions about Y2K completely fail. When asked about this prediction, he claims that he decided to intervene to prevent the Y2K disaster.

What a swell guy he is/was/or will be.

[GAsux]

Abu Hamza might not be a religious or spiritual leader in a sense that perhaps his ideology is not sanctioned by Allah, but he's certainly influencial and has been for quiet some time. As I alluded to earlier, the fact that Hamza even has a following in a place as "modern" as London is telling. The jihadists are not all backwards simple desert nomads. bin Laden's message clearly is reaching virtually every portion of society around the world and has been for a decade now.

Kevin,
I think it would be super if ALL crazy terrorist guys had eye patches and hook hands. Bring back the pirates I say.
\

[Ant10708]

Statement claiming London attacks
The BBC has located an Islamist website that has published a 200-word statement issued by an organisation saying it carried out the London bombings.

The organisation calls itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda [literally the base] of Jihad Organisation in Europe.

The group is previously unknown.

The website has previously carried statements purporting to be from al-Qaeda. It is not possible to verify such claims published on the web.

This is the full text of the statement.

In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and undaunted fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

Nation of Islam and Arab nation: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge against the British Zionist Crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The heroic mujahideen have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.

We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: "You who believe: If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly."

[ziggytrix]

I bet round trip airfare from DFW to LHR is dirt cheap right now. If we weren't swamped at work, I'd get my passport and go on holiday in London in a heartbeat. I've always wanted to.

[El Blanco]

It doesn't take a great deal of advanced intel to figure out that subway stations get crowded during the morning rush. Put together a crude explosive with common materials, drop it off at the station early in the morning with a timer, drop one off on the bus set to go off after the first couple go off (catches the people fleeing the subway station).

Look at what a couple of rednoecks in the backwoods like McVeigh and Nichols pulled off with a U-Haul truck, fertilizer and blasting caps.

Dude what are you talking about?

I was refering to GAsux' comment about how it had to be a long term, highly coordinated project.

I used McVeigh and Nichols bomb the federal building in Oklahoma City as an example.

[Dole]

So it would seem it was a suicide bomber on the bus. Had to be really..horrible. Its actually the bus my sis normally gets, but she was already at work. She was a barrister in a court case while all this was going on - an alert went off in the court, and they were all told to stay in court and carry on - no-one would tell them what had happened, only that it was a 'red alert'. The Judge asked to be told and the security people at the court said they weren't allowed to say?! One of the barristers sneaked out and found out what was going on, but they still all had to sit there and go through the motions for 3 hours until lunchtime! All of the barristers, my sis included had friends/partners/colleagues working in the city, so it was quite an unpleasant 3 hours while they waited to get out and check everyone was ok. Obviously a lot of people went through a hell of a lot worse yesterday, but still not very nice. Especially personally as it meant I couldnt get in touch with her to check she was ok.

The most frightening aspect to me about attacks like these is how easy they are to carry out, and how impossible they are to protect against. 'Al-Queada' is not some organised, pyramid shaped hierarchy that can be stopped by taking out its leaders - if Bin Laden was shot dead tomorrow, none of this would stop. Rather, its god-knows-how-many individual cells, that are probably for the most part self financing and autonomous. They get inspiration from people like Bin-laden and other hate-spouting fanatics, but there is no clear chain of command. If they find and prosecute all the people involved with yesterday, its not going to stop the 'terrorist threat'. Anyone can make a crude homemade bomb, walk into any crowded public place and do something similar. How the fuck do you prevent something like that?? And the fact that these people believe that doing such an act will propel them into heaven...they HOPE to die doing it!! Thats a fucking weapon of mass destruction right there. Going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan won't stop people like this. Tougher immigration policies won't stop it. What the fuck do we do?
I saw an interesting thing on the news late last night saying how the only way the intelligence services can hope to deal with this problem is to completely change the way they work - they just aren't equipped to deal with this kind of threat. They need to operate in a far more similar way to the terrorists themselves to be able to fight them.

'The war on terror' has never been more of a rather sick joke than it is at the moment - we are not winning it - I don't think we are even fighting it. They don't have a fucking clue.

[Carnivore]

Cherry and Dole, I'll be over on the next available flight... just as soon as I find someone to pay my mortgage and other bills in my absence :/

In all seriousness, much relief to know you and your families and friends were unharmed. You know we're all with you on this side of the pond. You whooped the Germans twice and have dealt with terrorism from the IRA all those years, so I have no doubt as to the inevitable conclusion of the current conflict.

[McClain]

Very true, Dole. It's been said that the only real way to fight terrorism is to remove the incentive from the act. But as long as we have free press there will be coverage and the terrorists achieve their immediate goal. It will be on the news. People will react. It's an anomalous circle of craven humanity.

[GAsux]

No government agency/intelligence orgainization has more experience with counter-terrorism than Israel. And their policies have proven to be marginally effective at best. Even with checkpoints, seraching individuals, etc, suicide bombers still manage to find their mark. Its like common crime, you can't defeat by countermeasures.

The only way it will ever stop will be to take away the motivation for doing it in the first place.

[sloth]

It's possible your sister knows the guy I was talking about, Dole. He's a barrister's clerk, so he gets to know a few people in the business. He heard the explosion go off round the corner - he got the rest of the day off so he watched the police handle the bus wreckage. I think pretty much everyone knows someone affected by it in one way or another. Shit, wasn't more than a few days ago I was at Aldgate East myself. Sorry to hear your sister had to go through all of that though.

[kellychaos]

9/11 was much more devasting then today's London explosions. So 40 + people getting killed could be a diversion for a much more deadly attack in the near future.

Why do the armchair quarterbacks and wordly pontificators feel the need to compare testicle sizes in this respect? The point is that they were ABLE to be attacked even if NO ONE was killed. The point is the loss of security they feel even in a city that is more terrorist-proof than most around the globe yet they are still vulnerable. The point is that people like you continue to conjecture like those involved are inanimate chess pieces while, at the same time, having little or no true knowledge of the subject or the environment being discussed. At least I am willing to admit I know nothing and await the opinions of those that may.

[kellychaos]

According to the Associated Press, a senior Israeli official said Scotland Yard told Israel minutes before the explosions that it had received warnings of possible terror attacks. Sky News says this has been denied by Scotland Yard. Sir Ian during his interview with Sky confirmed the absence of any specific intelligence. (http://www.juiceenewsdaily.com/0605/news/bombs.html?1120746381734)

Even if this were so, I would expect that both Scotland Yard and the Israeli Embassy get threatening calls daily. The question is in validating the authenticity.

[Ant10708]

9/11 was much more devasting then today's London explosions. So 40 + people getting killed could be a diversion for a much more deadly attack in the near future.

Why do the armchair quarterbacks and wordly pontificators feel the need to compare testicle sizes in this respect? The point is that they were ABLE to be attacked even if NO ONE was killed. The point is the loss of security they feel even in a city that is more terrorist-proof than most around the globe yet they are still vulnerable. The point is that people like you continue to conjecture like those involved are inanimate chess pieces with little or no true knowledge of the subject or the environment being discussed. At least I am willing to admit I know nothing and await the opinions of those that may. I didn't even come up with the diversion idea. But aye aye. You sure have some strong opinions for someone who admits to knowing nothing.

If NO ONE was killed(or hurt seriously) I really doubt they'd feel that threatened. The ETA does non lethal bombings all the time in Spain and I don't see the Spanish giving into their demands like they gave into al-quada after Madrird.

[Abcdxxxx]

Well, there's a split in Israel's phillosophy for handling terrorism, which can explain some of their mixed results. With world scrutiny on them to act divinely humane in their approach, they've had to back away from taking a strong arm stance. If you go through a timeline of terrorism the only success preventing this activity is through a firm hand. Terror activity in the region only increased after there were gestures that these people had legit beefs that should be discussed at a bargaining table. Israel has discovered you really can't take away their motivation for doing it. Poverty and class structure just can't be attributed as the sole motivation (the suicide bomber can always be traced to someone with money, with little regard for the working class, or the value of a human life).

So you can battle terrorism with compassion and try to "kill them with kindness", and understanding.... or you can be the Alpha dog, and keep yourself braced at all times so a mysterious backpack left absent on street corner becomes an immediate emergency. Israel's entire lifestyle revolves around these satety concerns. Having a bag searched when you go to the movies was standard back in the 70's for example. The Islamic fundamentalist world , and Arab League no longer fear people who want to be liked, and understood as compassionate people, now that they've learned how to manipulate the system.

Keep in mind this all happened only a couple months after Blair hosted a conference titled 'London supporting the Palestinian Authority", and Livingstone ranted about Israel's "war crimes". Rowan Williams anounced a church boycott of Israel only two days ago. There have also been low level gestures to recognize Hamas again. Oh, and interestingly enough, the IRA trained the PLO on how to do these types of bombings.

[Carnivore]

Undoubtedly, the best way to end terrorism is to end whatever drives people to commit acts of terror. Identifying that cause is incredibly difficult. Is it fundamentalism? Is it poverty and oppression? Is it even possible to remove the underlying problems without creating new ones? Will a free Palestine end terror attacks against Israel, or will there still be those extermists who will not be happy until there is no Israel at all?

And what to do in the meantime? Just try to be vigilant and hope for the best or risk pissing off even more people to stop the ones that are already committed to terrorism? It really is a no-win situation when looking for an immediate fix.

My personal belief is that fundamentalism in any religion is dangerous. There has to be a live-and-let-live philosophy. It's alright to think someone else is wrong about something, but it's not alright to forcefully remedy that yourself. Some Muslims may think we're infidels, but they need to let Allah sort us out when we're dead from natural causes. Bombing commuters will only make people like Bush more willing to risk hurting innocents to get the bad guys and make normally moderate people like me more willing to give him that leeway.

[kellychaos]

I didn't even come up with the diversion idea. But aye aye. You sure have some strong opinions for someone who admits to knowing nothing.


What I do have is a basic respect for human life that doesn't allow me to flippantly discuss trajedy as if I were crunching numbers. :rumsfeld

I could hardly feign empathy without feeling somewhat false about it. The truth is that I've never been close to a trajedy of this magnitude. In the absence of knowledge, sympathy is the best I can offer. I'll take humanity over grasping after internet conspiracy theories.

[Dole]

damn..was going to print the front cover of the sun today as it was amazingly restrained and measured...but it wouldnt work.

[Ant10708]

I didn't even come up with the diversion idea. But aye aye. You sure have some strong opinions for someone who admits to knowing nothing.


What I do have is a basic respect for human life that doesn't allow me to flippantly discuss trajedy as if I were crunching numbers. :rumsfeld

I could hardly feign empathy without feeling somewhat false about it. The truth is that I've never been close to a trajedy of this magnitude. In the absence of knowledge, sympathy is the best I can offer. I'll take humanity over grasping after internet conspiracy theories. Well I'm a NYer and I experienced 9/11 and I was one of the only ones who actually expressed sympathy in the first page of this thread. I wasn't making mock pictures to make light of the situation. Have you ever said this same shit to Ranxxer? I made reference to a post on a theory someone just mentioned. I don't deny evidence with a 'red pill/blue pill' argument. Or think there is a big government coverup on everything.

In my first post of this thread: 'I hope everyone here hasn't lost anyone.' And most people here fucking hate me. It's after all the initial jokes and mocking of american reaction over 9/11. But you were probaly to outraged over my treatment of people as inanimate chess pieces to notice any of that.

[Ant10708]

LONDON (Reuters) - Police evacuated thousands of people and sealed off the center of Britain's second city Birmingham on Saturday night in the biggest security alert since four bombs exploded in London killing more than 50 people.

Acting in response to intelligence of a threat, they cleared the city's entertainment and Chinatown districts of some 30,000 people and carried out a controlled explosion on a bus.

But they stressed the security alert was not connected to last Thursday's bomb attacks in London.

Pubs and restaurants were shut, and hotels evacuated as the huge operation swung into action in Birmingham. Police blocked all roads into the city center while helicopters flew overhead and ambulances were positioned in the area around the central Broad Street area.

West Midlands Police Assistant Chief Constable Stuart Hyde told reporters the action was proportionate to the information received but declined to elaborate.

It was among several security scares in Britain on Saturday in the wake of the London attacks. Police have warned the bombers may still be at large and could strike again.

Earlier, they revealed that the three bombs that ripped through London underground trains went off almost simultaneously, making it more likely they were detonated by timers rather than suicide bombers.

A fourth bomb that blew up a bus almost an hour later was probably left in a bag and not triggered by a suicide bomber, they added.

Investigators struggled in extreme heat to retrieve bodies still trapped underground after the attacks, while anxious relatives frantically looked for loved ones missing since the rush-hour blasts on Thursday morning.

Police said the process of recovering bodies could continue for days in a hot, narrow and rat-infested tunnel deep below ground at King's Cross station.

DEADLIEST ATTACK

The government said people across Britain would be asked to observe two minutes' silence at noon on Thursday.

Police, who have made no arrests, said they were looking for no specific individuals and that the bombs were made of high explosive, not home-made materials.

Three Islamist groups have claimed responsibility for the blasts, which government ministers said bore the hallmarks of the Islamic militant al Qaeda network which was behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

"All three bombs on the London Underground system actually exploded within seconds of each other at around 8:50 in the morning," Scotland Yard Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick told a news conference on Saturday.

He said the fact that the bombs went off within 50 seconds of each other suggested they were set off by timers rather than detonated manually, although police did not rule that out.

Police previously believed the three blasts were spread over nearly half an hour, but revised their information in the light of new technical data and witness statements, he said.

ODD ONE OUT

The fourth bomb exploded on a bus near Euston railway station at 9:47 a.m.

"The most logical explanation is that one of the terrorists was unable to board an underground train -- probably because of the rapid closure of the system -- and ended up with a primed bomb and no target," said Dominic Armstrong, head of research and intelligence at security group Aegis Defense Services.

"In the circumstances, it seems understandable that he should seek another similar target quickly."

Police say there could be more attacks and security experts suggest would-be attackers could opt to kill themselves and take as many victims with them as possible if confronted.

http://reuters.excite.com//article/20050710/2005-07-10T000135Z_01_N09167110_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-BRITAIN-DC.html

[KevinTheOmnivore]

The most frightening aspect to me about attacks like these is how easy they are to carry out, and how impossible they are to protect against. 'Al-Queada' is not some organised, pyramid shaped hierarchy that can be stopped by taking out its leaders - if Bin Laden was shot dead tomorrow, none of this would stop. Rather, its god-knows-how-many individual cells, that are probably for the most part self financing and autonomous. They get inspiration from people like Bin-laden and other hate-spouting fanatics, but there is no clear chain of command. If they find and prosecute all the people involved with yesterday, its not going to stop the 'terrorist threat'. Anyone can make a crude homemade bomb, walk into any crowded public place and do something similar. How the fuck do you prevent something like that?? And the fact that these people believe that doing such an act will propel them into heaven...they HOPE to die doing it!! Thats a fucking weapon of mass destruction right there. Going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan won't stop people like this. Tougher immigration policies won't stop it. What the fuck do we do?

I totally feel you on this one Dole, because I've been asking myself the same question as of late, coming to basically the same helpless answers you've arrived at. This sort of helpless feeling of fear and vulnerability, coupled with the psychology of those who wish to destroy us, basically accounts for my recent turn towards the "neo-conish" regarding the war on terrorism.

Certainly, simply bombing the bad countries and hoping that ends terrorism is a bad idea. But there IS some validity to the Bush/Blair approach on this. We don't need to debate Iraq, cuz I disagreed with that war, but their idea of fighting terrorism by preventing state sponsorship of it seems like a good idea. Obviously, you're right. You can't make a radical muslim like you, you can't apologize enough to them for whatever it is you've presumably done wrong, and you can't always stop someone from constructing a crude bomb and going on a subway train.

You're also right about its decentralized nature. Getting Bin Laden isn't necessarily the point. However, I read an interesting piece in the Sunday NY Times today about the dynamic of the Islamic community in London, for example. There seems to be certain communities (one right by one of the bombings?) which represent what's very positive about Islam, whereas the British government seems to be very unwilling to even take very small measures against the kind of hateful, radical financing and organizing that has gone on in in other, more militant London communities. I read that a bill is sitting in parliament which would allow the govt. to place suspected terrorists under house arrest, but its lack of popularity may kill it. I think you're right that we can't absolutely prevent these tragedies, but can't we take baby steps to make sure that our own liberal policies aren't being abused by people who would like to destroy them and what they stand for....?

'The war on terror' has never been more of a rather sick joke than it is at the moment - we are not winning it - I don't think we are even fighting it. They don't have a fucking clue.

Yet we must continue fighting, because the alternative is unthinkable. The reason these groups have been able to grow and slip in amongst us is due to our apathy, primarily. There's no cultural debate with this enemy-- This isn't, IMO, about Democrats vs. Republicans or Labor vs. Conservatives (or tories? whatever). This is about pluralistic society vs. regressive society. This is about democracy and religios freedom, vs. theocratic rule and persecution. I think internal debates about taxes and gay marriage and education are all great, but this shouldn't be a partisan issue, IMO. We need to be strong, we need to be firm, and we need to stop those who would kill civilians because they disagree with who they are. Whatever way necessary, I think.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

And the most ridiculous quote of the day on the London bombings, by Phillip Adams of The Australian:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15896874%255E12272,00.html

"Unlike those humdrum bombings in Baghdad, the slaughter in London was big news. And let's be clear about it: the people who died in the subway tunnels and on the bus were victims of the Iraq war. They died because of Blair's London Bridge, the one he built from the Thames to the Euphrates.

Had he not misled his nation into that murderous folly of an invasion, the people would have walked off the trains instead of being carried off on stretchers. Or had their body parts collected in bags."

:rolleyes

[El Blanco]

Yes, because al Queda hasn't been linked to other attacks prior to March 2003.

Or is he pissed because it was finally a bunch of white English people getting blown up?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

No, if you read the entire article, it's pretty much just a polemic against Blair and the war in Iraq. He starts off in a real classy fashion, invoking all of the innocents who get killed and kidnapped in Iraq every day.

But now it matters to Brits, because it happened to them, and blah blah blah......

[FurankuS]

0856 21 people die in a blast on a train between Russell Square and King's Cross stations


OMG VOLDEMORT

[Emu]

yeah, it's a wonder why a book that takes place in England would use English landmarks

[FurankuS]

Wait, so you're saying he DIDN'T do it?

But, seriously. Dead people. That blows.