God Bless America!!!

[Rev. Danno]

I keep seeing these damn kids from the Green Party with stickers that say FREE PALISTINE...
Pisses me off...
Don't fuck with the jews...
If you screw someone over for sevrel thousand years, & then give them a country, Expect them to defend it.
If your race was the target of Genocide, & you get your ancestial home land back after 4,ooo years...I say it's OK to drive around in tanks, & shoot civilians who defiy you.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

that's nice.

[executioneer]

I'm pretty sure it's all right to say fuck :/

-willie

[KevinTheOmnivore]

It's ok to be a retard, too.

[ItalianStereotype]

i have to agree with danno here. everybody from the romans to the seljuks to the ottoman turks pushed the jews off of their homeland and now that they have it back and are capable of defending it, they have every right to.

[Jixby Phillips]

F*** PALISTINE:lol

[Ronnie Raygun]

Good call Danno.

[mburbank]

Naleo; Your new user pic show Jesus about to Box W's ears.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I know.

I thought you might like that.

[mburbank]

I have somewhat different take on being Jewish.

It's only our ancestral homeland if you're a biblical literalist. There were folks living there when we moved in. Our claim to the land is purely based on scripture and it's interpretation. That's the kind of argument that gets planes flown into buildings.

As far as being the victim of attempted Genocide... I think that being a survivor ought to mean you don't bulldoze peoples homes or shoot little kids who throw rocks at you.

[Ronnie Raygun]

In defense of the Israeli soldiers, the stress they must be under has to be enormous. I mean you say they kill little kids who throw rocks......I've never heard of an Israeli soldier shooting a kid just for throwing a rock. I could have happened.......I don't think that's Israeli policy.

The point is, those guys are walking around all day with targets on their back. That's not a normal human condition. Stress like that can cause all sorts of things to happen. I not making excuses for the deaths of palestinian children, I just don't think that an Israeli soldiers would shoot kids for no good reason.

[AChimp]

I agree with the general gist of this thread. Palestine is (mostly) full of whiny little bitches who'd declare jihad on their own shit if the toilet water splashed up on their ass.

We should take a cue from the history textbooks and see if our forced-relocation skills are still as l33t as they were a few centuries ago and move all the Palestinians to floating rafts in the Pacific. >:

[Rev. Danno]

You have to forgive me, or not...
My opinions are not all that popular, I was raised in a household where one Parent was Militant about Isreal, & the other sent money to the IRA (i had cool stickers on my M*A*S*H lunch box, you know ...Back when they made metal lunch boxes).
Plus I posted this thread to see if anyone had anything thing Inteligent to say in such a thread....
KuplA For Max, & Ronnie!!! Half credit for Achimp who had to resort to toilet humor...

[Helm]

Excuse me, I couldn't help noticing that you seem gay. Are you, by any change gay?

[AChimp]

Mastering toilet humour is half the battle. ;)

[Rev. Danno]

Looking for a Date Helm?...Or just being an ass.

[Ronnie Raygun]

HAHAHA!

[Abcdxxxx]

Burbank, aren't you really just saying you chose to be the type of Jew who turns his back on anyone else that hasn't redefined his beliefs or cultural identity identical to your own?

If you're equating Israel with religious nutball extremists who have admittedly acted out in the name of their scriptures, please do tell me when specific tracts of the Old Testament were ever used as a rallying cry for a modern day Israeli army?

Do you really think the majority of Israelis ended up there out of religious obligation? Very few are religious at all.

[Helm]

I'm actually looking for a date Danno. Catholics turn me on. As to who's gonna be ass, we can swap places, what do you say, hm? :comeon

[Zero Signal]

Palestinians are the trash of the Arab world. No Arab country wants them; Jordan already kicked them out because they are troublemakers. Yet, the Arabs are the first to defend them simply because they are Arab, but they don't like them really other than that.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I say it's OK to drive around in tanks, & shoot civilians who defiy you.

Ronnie said "Good call Danno."

So much for that "new Raygun attitude," eh? I see the murder of civilians who don't "obey" the state of Israel sounds like a good thing to you. Probably a conservative thing, really Christian, too.

"In defense of the Israeli soldiers, the stress they must be under has to be enormous."

This is the same kind of argument made to justify suicide bombing. "We always wait for our houses to be knocked down, you can't imagine." I'm sure you only "appreciate" one sides argument, though.

And on another note, I find the profoundly ignorant comments pertaining to the Palestinians to be rather amazing. Zero calls the Palestinians the "trash" of the Arab world, yet neglects to point out that they are also amongst the lowest and hardest working class in countries such as Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. He calls them "trouble makers," but neglects to mention how the Jordanian government butchered thousands of Palestinians, forcing many to choose life in the police state West Bank, instead. Danno asks for intelligent responses, yet justifies oppression and murder.

I'd suggest those who hold these opinions read a little bit more, examine a little bit more, and perhaps try to see the whole picture.

[Zero Signal]

Zero calls the Palestinians the "trash" of the Arab world, yet neglects to point out that they are also amongst the lowest and hardest working class in countries such as Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. He calls them "trouble makers," but neglects to mention how the Jordanian government butchered thousands of Palestinians, forcing many to choose life in the police state West Bank, instead.
"lowest and hardest working class"

And? They are still considered the lowest lot, and if the other Arab countries cared about their well-being, they would have offered them sanctuary within their borders, but they haven't. In fact, they did in the past and have regretted it.

"neglects to mention how the Jordanian government butchered thousands of Palestinians"

Perhaps if they hadn't been such a pain in the ass to Jordan, they wouldn't have "butchered thousands" of them.

Has it ever occured to you why the Palestinians are still moaning and crying? They have been offered solutions that all parties, including other Arab countries, found amicable which would have solved the problem. But no, the Palestinian authority rejected it, because they wouldn't have anything to bitch about if they accepted. They bring all of this on THEMSELVES, and they blow up innocent Israelis at bus stops and coffee shops to perpetuate it.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

And? They are still considered the lowest lot, and if the other Arab countries cared about their well-being, they would have offered them sanctuary within their borders, but they haven't. In fact, they did in the past and have regretted it.

You're right. They're a pestalence upon the earth, good riddance. :rolleyes

I agree that the other Arab countries are at fault here, but that doesn't place Israel in the clear. Two wrongs don't make a right.



Perhaps if they hadn't been such a pain in the ass to Jordan, they wouldn't have "butchered thousands" of them.

What is it that you think they did, besides rebel against an oppressive MONARCHY, not a democracy, not a republic, rather, a tyranical MONARCHY. I guess that's what should happen to people who dissent, right?

Has it ever occured to you why the Palestinians are still moaning and crying? They have been offered solutions that all parties, including other Arab countries, found amicable which would have solved the problem.

Such as? Name them, in detail, please.

But no, the Palestinian authority rejected it, because they wouldn't have anything to bitch about if they accepted. They bring all of this on THEMSELVES, and they blow up innocent Israelis at bus stops and coffee shops to perpetuate it.

The PA is not reflective of ALL the Palestinian people, and in fact, the amount who partake in suicide bombing is quite small. Most Palestinians dislike Arafat, but what options do they have? Who else even slightly represents them? If it weren't Arafat, it'd be someone from Hamas. Do you think that'd be better?

If you truly believe they bring "all" of this upon themselves, you really don't have a clue. Certainly the PA carries blame. Certainly other Arab nations carry the blame. CERTAINLY the state of Israel carries some of the blame, but to insinuate that it's all the fault of a people who live in a kind of poverty and oppression that you couldn't possibly imagine is just absurd.

[Zero Signal]

What is it that you think they did, besides rebel against an oppressive MONARCHY, not a democracy, not a republic, rather, a tyranical MONARCHY. I guess that's what should happen to people who dissent, right?If you come into a country and start stirring up trouble, then yes.

The PA is not reflective of ALL the Palestinian people, and in fact, the amount who partake in suicide bombing is quite small. Most Palestinians dislike Arafat, but what options do they have? Who else even slightly represents them? If it weren't Arafat, it'd be someone from Hamas. Do you think that'd be better?So the Palestinians do nothing to make their situation better by electing someone else, but you say that wouldn't matter anyway. So they are just screwed to begin with?

If you truly believe they bring "all" of this upon themselves, you really don't have a clue. Certainly the PA carries blame. Certainly other Arab nations carry the blame. CERTAINLY the state of Israel carries some of the blame, but to insinuate that it's all the fault of a people who live in a kind of poverty and oppression that you couldn't possibly imagine is just absurd.I agree. I don't think the Palestinians carry all of the blame, but they are certainly not doing much to make it better either. Stopping suicide bombers would be a good place to start. Like it or not, even if Arafat has no control over these groups like Hamas, when they bomb in the name of Palestine it doesn't reflect well on Arafat.

[Rev. Danno]

OMG I think I started the first inteligent posing on the new board...
By the way Helm, I'm Jewish...Also I Top, not bottom, & I'm Bi, not gay.

[Abcdxxxx]

Kevin: "He calls them "trouble makers," but neglects to mention how the Jordanian government butchered thousands of Palestinians,"

True...and now you just neglected to mention that these deaths came partly as a result of the failed coup attempt against what you billed as a "tyranical Monarchy". Cause and effect. You just painted half a picture while calling someone out for doing the same thing. That chip on your shoulder's getting so big it's a wonder you can still type such drivel.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

True...and now you just neglected to mention that these deaths came partly as a result of the failed coup attempt against what you billed as a "tyranical Monarchy". Cause and effect.

Perhaps you're right, but when the entire thread is dedicated to trashing the Palestinians, is it necessary that I likewise point out their short comings while attempting to expand the argument...?

btw, was the Jordanian government not a monarchy? Was the American revolution merely a "coup"????


You just painted half a picture while calling someone out for doing the same thing. That chip on your shoulder's getting so big it's a wonder you can still type such drivel.

:rolleyes

Again, the criticisms against the Palestinians have been made quite clear. It was the title of the F***ING thread (no pun intended). Would it have been better if in conclusion I covered all the bases by interjecting "oh, but I still say kill the fuckers"...?

[/i]

[Zero Signal]

btw, was the Jordanian government not a monarchy? Was the American revolution merely a "coup"????
Irrelevant comparison. We didn't waltz into England and try to overthrow it because we didn't like it (ie. Palestinians in Jordan). What the Palestinians did would be like be coming into your apartment/house and saying "I don't like this" or "I don't like that" and proceeding to change it when it's not my business to change it. You kick me out, and I would deserve it.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Irrelevant comparison. We didn't waltz into England and try to overthrow it because we didn't like it (ie. Palestinians in Jordan).

The Palestinians didn't "waltz" into Jordan to pick a fight. Trans-Jordan was intended by many to BE the Palestinian state promised by UNSCOMP in 1947-48. BTW, current Israeli PM Ariel Sharon in fact SUPPORTED the Palestinian revolt in Jordan, because he wanted to have an excuse to get rid of the refuge camps in the West Bank.



What the Palestinians did would be like be coming into your apartment/house and saying "I don't like this" or "I don't like that" and proceeding to change it when it's not my business to change it. You kick me out, and I would deserve it.

Talk about irrelevant comparisons....

[Abcdxxxx]

Kevin, I'm not sure but I swear you just admitted you're an apologist and tried to justify it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW. The typical West Bank Arab called themselves Jordanian not Palestinian.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Kevin, I'm not sure but I swear you just admitted you're an apologist and tried to justify it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Tell me what part you're reffering to, and I'll gladly answer your question.

BTW. The typical West Bank Arab called themselves Jordanian not Palestinian.

BTW. I'm friends with a few Jordanians who most certainly call themselves Palestinians. Talk about identity crisis, huh? :/

[Abcdxxxx]

That explains the "waltzing" in Jordan, so how about the failed coup attempts in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon?

Did Sharon support the coup attempt? I seem to recall Israel being active in stopping it. Israelis loved the Jordanian King the way they loved Sadat...and for the same reason. They were hardline Arab leaders who changed their thinking and attempted to negotiate for peace. Jordan eventually granted the right of return to Palestinians, and now 70% of them hold citizenship (but I'm sure they're still "refugees" at heart right?) . Also - it's a little known truth that Arafat turned down an Oslo style land for peace deal with Jordan that would have ended the conflict.

One more point ... the coup attempt wasn't a revolutionary uprising by the oppressed and undertrodden, it was in "their name".

[Abcdxxxx]

If we're talking about an identity crisis, let's also mention a few of the Iraqis, Egyptians, Kuwaitis, Syrians, Saudis, and Yemenites amongst others who ALL call themselves Palestinian when the mood strikes. Some of them even move to Gaza, which accounts for the population double within the past 8 years. To some, Palestinian is code for "Killing Jews".

[KevinTheOmnivore]

That explains the "waltzing" in Jordan, so how about the failed coup attempts in Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon?

These ALL rest SOLELY on the shoulders of the palestinians (or the "Jordanians," since you don't believe there is a Palestinian, right?). Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon are yet agaoin three other countries that oppress those who they see as "lower," and are likewise highly undemocratic. Are you justifying such regimes? Are you an apologist?

Did Sharon support the coup attempt? I seem to recall Israel being active in stopping it. Israelis loved the Jordanian King the way they loved Sadat...and for the same reason. They were hardline Arab leaders who changed their thinking and attempted to negotiate for peace.

Sharon always spoke of Jordan as the Palestinian homeland. If the Palestinians took the country, it'd solve his problems.

Also, I'm fairly sure that Israel would lke just about ANYBODY who wouldn't want to go to war with them. Of course, why would Jordan need to go to war, they got their little piece of the pie in 48, right?

Jordan eventually granted the right of return to Palestinians, and now 70% of them hold citizenship (but I'm sure they're still "refugees" at heart right?)

There are more Israeli "citizens" living abroad than there are actually living in Israel. I guess that means they shouldn't have a state, huh? :/


Also - it's a little known truth that Arafat turned down an Oslo style land for peace deal with Jordan that would have ended the conflict.

No doubt, Arafat is a bastard, and the PA are in a position where they should take what they can get for the Palestinian people. Incidently, on what grounds did he reject the offer....?

One more point ... the coup attempt wasn't a revolutionary uprising by the oppressed and undertrodden, it was in "their name".

:confused

[KevinTheOmnivore]

If we're talking about an identity crisis, let's also mention a few of the Iraqis, Egyptians, Kuwaitis, Syrians, Saudis, and Yemenites amongst others who ALL call themselves Palestinian when the mood strikes.

Certainly, but is this not the nature of nationalism? The Palestinian "identity" became common with the influx of Jews making aliyah to Mandate Palestine. The Israeli people were ironically the creators of what would be their biggest crisis.


Some of them even move to Gaza, which accounts for the population double within the past 8 years.

What's the difference between this, and for example me making aliyah to Israel to be in my "homeland"...?

To some, Palestinian is code for "Killing Jews".

Well, can't say I've ever heard of this.......

[Abcdxxxx]

"What's the difference between this, and for example me making aliyah to Israel to be in my "homeland"...? "

Oh, I don't know... maybe the fact that Israel is an existing and recognized Democratic country?

[Abcdxxxx]

"There are more Israeli "citizens" living abroad than there are actually living in Israel. I guess that means they shouldn't have a state, huh?"

Right, and when Israelis with dual citizenship start collecting money from the UNRA you can equate the two. In the meantime, at least 70% of Palestinians are technically no longer refugees. A sham is a sham.


"Sharon always spoke of Jordan as the Palestinian homeland. If the Palestinians took the country, it'd solve his problems. "

Interesting, but that's not what happened. Israel sided with their Jordanian allies and aided them. Sharon was merely a military man at the time, no matter what his stance might have been.... he earned his "bulldozer" moniker on the mission.

[slavemason]

The whole mess makes me glad to be agnostic. Lucky for me, I don't get many instructions from God telling me to kill my neighbor. I'm waiting patiently though.

[Helm]

Rev. Danno: I'm not sure YHVH likes you!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Oh, I don't know... maybe the fact that Israel is an existing and recognized Democratic country?

Since when has this had anything to do with nationalism??? Did the Jews have a "recognized democratic country" BEFORE 1948, while the immigrations occured in mass....?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Right, and when Israelis with dual citizenship start collecting money from the UNRA you can equate the two. In the meantime, at least 70% of Palestinians are technically no longer refugees. A sham is a sham.

I equate the two because you said they hold Jordanian citizenship, despite identifying as Palestinians. There are American Jews who fly to Israel and vote in elections, and then come back here to enjoy the benefits of OUR system. Do you follow, or should I break it down further...? :/



Interesting, but that's not what happened. Israel sided with their Jordanian allies and aided them. Sharon was merely a military man at the time, no matter what his stance might have been.... he earned his "bulldozer" moniker on the mission.

I wasn't reffering to the state's policy, I was reffering to Sharon's. How's that chip on your shoulder holdin' up...?

[Abcdxxxx]

"Since when has this had anything to do with nationalism??? Did the Jews have a "recognized democratic country" BEFORE 1948, while the immigrations occured in mass....?"


The largest immigration movements to Israel were as a result of persecution, NOT nationalism.


"I equate the two because you said they hold Jordanian citizenship, despite identifying as Palestinians. There are American Jews who fly to Israel and vote in elections, and then come back here to enjoy the benefits of OUR system. Do you follow, or should I break it down further...? "


Do YOU follow? The question isn't duel allegiance. (American Jews are not alone in this priviledge). No matter how you break it down, a lot of Palestinians claiming displaced status do in fact hold citizenship to a country. Their satisfaction with this situation doesn't negate that. American Jews might vote in two Countrys but they're not collecting fraudelent aid from the UN or the EU to do it, and they're not claiming they're without a homeland are they? A lot of money goes towards helping legit Palestinians in need, but it rarely gets to them. This is one reason why, and it has nothing to do with Jews of any sort. Sorry.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

The largest immigration movements to Israel were as a result of persecution, NOT nationalism.

Why Israel then? Why all of the immigration in the 19th Century??? Why not Uganda, or whatever African country the British offered (and you can't honestly say they chose a desert surrounded by hostile enemies out of pragmatic reasons). It most certainly was nationalistic.


American Jews might vote in two Countrys but they're not collecting fraudelent aid from the UN or the EU to do it, and they're not claiming they're without a homeland are they?

Many Palestinians hold Jordanian residence because they were FORCED over the border, either by scare tactics from the Israelis, or lies from the other Arab nations. Either way, despite taking up residence in other Arab countries, they were still displaced and are still deserving of compensation, much like the U.S. has compensated native Americans who are STILL American citizens.[/quote]

[Abcdxxxx]

"Why not Uganda, or whatever African country the British offered".. ." It most certainly was nationalistic."

Uganda? Why not unoccupied Southern California? The reason why MOST Poles, Russians, and also Germans immigrated to Israel as part of the fifth aliyah was Anti-Semetism, and political/economic insecurity. Same with Jews from Egypt, North Africa, and other Jews from Muslim countrys. Jews of South America, and South Africa followed shortly for these reasons as well, and it's the same reason why American Jews rarely feel the need to immigrate all the while supporting Israel monetarily. When German Jews, and Oriental Jews (for the Sa'id fans amongst us) went to Israel, they originally rejected intergration and formed small communities with seperate language newspapers, and other cultural traits. It wasn't nationalistic, nor was in unity with the Zionist movements.

"Many Palestinians hold Jordanian residence because they were FORCED over the border, either by scare tactics from the Israelis, or lies from the other Arab nations. Either way, despite taking up residence in other Arab countries, they were still displaced and are still deserving of compensation, much like the U.S. has compensated native Americans who are STILL American citizens."

The US does not border on Africa, nor has Israel ever bought or sold ownership of Arabs, so it's a very poor comparison.

Jordanian citizenship is voluntary. Nobody FORCES them to take it, and some refuse it because it belittles their cause. Israel HAS actually compensated some Arab Palestinians with compensation. Unfortunately most have little documentation to prove their claims and many signed over deeds in exchange for money. Will Jews exiled from Arabic nations ever see compensation for the billions stolen from them?? Will you rally behind that? Or does your mentality prohibit that?

[Rev. Danno]

I just had to brink this tread back for a little bit...
Fuck Palistine, & fuck you...
there, I don't think anyone will respond...
Oh Raven, Preech can suck my Jewish cock....Nazi Cult!!!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

shat ap.

[Zosimus]

I keep seeing these damn kids from the Green Party with stickers that say FREE PALISTINE...
Pisses me off...


yeah, they piss me off too, it is spelled "PALESTINE" DAMN KIDS!!!

[FS]

Can't we just put all those nasty bothersome Palestininnians in a big oven or something and cook em? :(

[ranxer]

http://www.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/metafiles/refuseniks537ay7ylt.gif

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/mayday/end_of_zionism.jpg

[Jeanette X]

It's only our ancestral homeland if you're a biblical literalist. There were folks living there when we moved in. .
Max is right. The Bible and archeology agree that there were people living there before the Israelites.

[Anonymous]

Danno's bi?

That brings our average up to what?

[aeQea]

..

[Abcdxxxx]

It's only our ancestral homeland if you're a biblical literalist. There were folks living there when we moved in. .
Max is right. The Bible and archeology agree that there were people living there before the Israelites.

"The people living there" aren't really still around to lay claim to the land. There were Cannaanite Zionists amongst the crowd if it makes you feel any better.

The Bible is a usefull document to debunk the idea that all the Jews came from Europe, and just popped up there in the last century.

Ranxer - The picture of the Hasid is exploitive. Read up on the particular sect he belongs to (because they're not all the same) and I will assure you that your own beliefs are far from theirs. They're seperatists, and their brand of Judaism teeters on being a dooms day cult.

As for the 562 or whatever the number is that refuse to serve in the IDF -- the number who are requesting to serve far exceeds that. It doesn't mean much.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Ranxer - The picture of the Hasid is exploitive. Read up on the particular sect he belongs to (because they're not all the same) and I will assure you that your own beliefs are far from theirs. They're seperatists, and their brand of Judaism teeters on being a dooms day cult.

:lol

That's an interesting take on the Satmar!! I don't think they're that bad, I live near many. Not a very well liked bunch.

I however agree that using them in these demonstrations is a tad bit exploitative. I first saw one at a "free Palestine" rally in DC, and it make my stomach turn a bit to see them cheering along with the "long live the intifada!" crowd.

[Rev. Danno]

Hehe, just wanred to bring this tread back, it's one of my babies you know... Choijin, I' not Bi, it was a joke...(;))
Anyway, ignore this tread, I'll just bring it back in a few months...

[Cosmo Electrolux]

I'm glad you brought it back. it was easily the most intelligent debate I've ever read on these forums..

[aeQea]

..

[ziggytrix]

God bless America, and no place else!