Humanity....

[GAsux]

As a Los Angeles native for most of my 30 years, I understand inner city problems, violence, etc. While I certainly wouldn't justify it, I understand the mentality that drove people to riot/loot in the aftermath of the Rodney King trial. The outburst of lawlessness was as much an expression of outrage as it was a random chance to come up on some malt liquor and free cheetos.

But in the wake of a devastating natural disaster it saddens me to see people in our "civilized" nation resorting to such nonsense. There is no "civil unrest" argument here. We're talking about mobs of people acting like animals and seizing the opportunity to act like morons. All over their city people are dead or dying, trying to cope with losing everything they've ever owned, etc, and the first thing that comes to mind is breaking into the local Piggly Wiggly to get some smokes and a bottle of Cognac.

Sad really.

[ziggytrix]

Oh shut up. If you just saw everything you'd scraped together for the last 30 years wash into the gulf, perhaps along with your wife or your kid, you'd have every bit as much right to be uncivil as someone who was upset cuz the cops beat up someone with the same color skin as you. >:

Yeah it's sad that when the shit hits the fan we act like the animals we are, but I'd bet you wouldn't do much better in their shoes. I guess we'll get to find out whenever an earthquake finally dumps LA into the ocean.

[GAsux]

Yeah you got me. Nevermind the people that actually made efforts to help, etc. If I was in their shoes the first thing I'd want to do is find the nearest grocery store and see how many cases of beer and hot dogs I could get out of there. That would be an excellent way to vent my frustrations about losing my family to a natural disaster. I'm sure they'd want me to knock back some looted Shlitz in their honor.

Thanks for playing though.

[ziggytrix]

yes, because these people are all out there stealing beer and hot dogs. they aren't stealing food, water, weapons, and whatever they think they need to survive.

really, you're being a jackass and looking down on people you've never met who are in a situation you've never faced.

shut the fuck up.

[AChimp]

I hope they start shooting looters.

That would make a good video game, actually.

[GAsux]

Am I really though? I guess the guys carrying cases of beer on news feeds to just about every news outlet in the county were actually filled with water bottles, fruits and veggies, and baby formula. Or maybe as it turns out beer is an excellent source of hydration.

Im 100% certain that some people probably did participate in order survive. I'm also 100% certain that there are/were a fair amount of people doing it because they could to take advantage of the situation.

By the way, what would you steal a weapon for? I don't suppose you can shoot a flood or a power outage eh? For protection perhaps? From who do you suppose?

I've never met a child molestor nor have I molested a child yet I feel pretty comfortable in looking down on their behavior. Thanks for your internet assessment though.

[King Hadas]

Comparing child molesters to natural disaster victims is pretty fucking stupid.

[GAsux]

Thanks for your input. It's much appreciated. Actually I was comparing them to looters.

[kellychaos]

I'm fairly certain that Gasux is not realistically grasping the enormity of the situation.

[King Hadas]

Thanks for the response. I do appreciate it. Actually you were arguing for arguements sake and comparing looters to child molesters isn't much better especially looters who just suffered a natural disaster.

[ziggytrix]

GASux, thanks for watching TV and assuming you know everything that matters.

I'm not denying that some idiots are out there stealing whatever they can cuz they're idiots. But maybe some of them couldn't find water or food and think they can trade for some. Or maybe we just beed you to go down there and straighten everything out with your superior ethical crisis management skills. Or maybe you can just SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[kellychaos]

The child molesters will be offering to help the children who are hurricane victims find their parents. They are working a very narrow window of time and will not have the opportunity to loot.

[GAsux]

As it turns out, I spent nearly six years in the southeast and am at least remotely familiar with the hurricane chaos, although I'd be lying, as would anyone at this point who isn't there to comment on the "enormity" of it.

If thinking it's sad to see people taking advantage of a horrible situation to crack open slot machines in casinos in Biloxi, pillage Office Depot's in New Orleans, and steal weapons from Wal-Marts to roam the streets in search of violence makes me an ignorant prick then so be it.

As I said, I'm sure there are some that acted out of necessity and I've said nothing to condemn those people. But no one looted the ATM machines, shotguns at Wal-Mart, or scanners at Office Depot to feed their families.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of displaced people across three states who didn't need to resort to looting jewelry stores and clothing shops on Bourbon Street to cope with the disaster.

[ziggytrix]

Again, some of these people just lost EVERYTHING. They can't go to their friends or family for help, cuz those folks just lost everything too.

If my car, my house, and all my stuff were suddenly gone, and I was too poor to afford insurance, I'd give thought to going into that jewelry store and recouping some losses. If I didn't know where my next meal was coming from and I was hearing gunfire in the streets, I wouldn't have to think twice about swiping a shotgun and some shells from the Walmart.

Maybe you can't imagine being that desperate. I can certainly believe that - the fact that we're talking about this over computers tells me enough aobut our respective economic statuses. But if you found yourself in that desperate of a situation, I bet you'd be at least considering trying to salvage something from the wreckage of your city.

[GAsux]

Fair enough. But do you care to venture a guess as to how many are in that situation versus how many are looting jewelry stores simply becuase they can? I honestly can't imagine being so desperate and lost that I'd think robbing a jewelry store would some how compensate me. So now I have nothing, except this ring and some gold chains?

Again, I'm not knocking those people that are doing what they have to do to survive. I'm saying its sad that with all thats gone on that there are those, and I propose a fair amount of them, that have taken advantage of the situation with no regard for decency.

As I said, if not condoning looting makes me insensitive, unrealistic, or any other slander you choose to confer upon me, that's super. I personally don't buy your "it's the environment" argument as there are shitoads of people in the same boat who aren't pillaging their neighborhood stores. People have a choice to make and I don't care how you play it, there's no justification for stealing watches and fax machines while your city is in ruins.

[AChimp]

There is absolutely no excuse for looting. You are a piece of shit that is simply taking advantage of a terrible situation to get a load of free stuff.

Looters deserve to be shot on sight, without question and regardless of the circumstances.

You lost everything? So what. So did everyone else around you. That doesn't make you special. Losing everything doesn't confer upon you special rights that grant you the privilege to suddenly take what you want.

[ziggytrix]

Your sense of morality is pretty fuckin skewed if you think the penalty for robbing a jewelry store should be death.

Look, I'm not saying what they are doing is OK. I think it's pretty fucked up. But I also think that you've probably never once in your life been in a situation like what any of those people are dealing with, and I think you need to shut the fuck up.

[AChimp]

I think you're a closet looter. >:

[GAsux]

You know the "shut the fuck up" portion of your argument is getting a bit old. God forbid someone have a different opinion. I don't suppose I'll know for certain what I would do if a Cat 5 hurricane decimated my city.

But regardless, I don't understand your hostility. You put forth your scenario of what you'd do in that situation, or what seems reasonable and that's fair enough. Again I'm not knocking those folks.

IS it also possible that there are people who are robbing shotguns from Wal-Mart not because they need it to protect their families, but simply because they can? Or people who are smashing bricks into ATM machines who DIDN"T "lose everything" but are simply doing it to take advantage of the situation?

And finally, before you get back to the shut the fuck upping, I admire your compassion and apologist nature, but what about the small business owners? What about the people who own the jewelry stores, the grociery stores, etc who likely lost just as much and now have to deal with people robbing thier stores because they somehow deserve it or are justified because the world and their city owes them for what they've lost?

Like I said, from experience, for every one person in LA who looted/rioted for a perceived "cause" there were five who did it becuase no one was there to stop them. There was no noble cause, no self preservation. It was plain and simply lawlessness because they could.

I suppose it's possible that it happened but I don't recall hearing stories of widespread looting in the wake of the tsunami. I would venture to guess that many of the people affected by that were equally destitute, if not more so, lost just as much, etc.

[ziggytrix]

IS it also possible that there are people who are robbing shotguns from Wal-Mart not because they need it to protect their families, but simply because they can? Or people who are smashing bricks into ATM machines who DIDN"T "lose everything" but are simply doing it to take advantage of the situation?



Look, I'm not saying what they are doing is OK. I think it's pretty fucked up.


what about the small business owners? What about the people who own the jewelry stores, the grociery stores, etc who likely lost just as much and now have to deal with people robbing thier stores because they somehow deserve it or are justified because the world and their city owes them for what they've lost?

insurance covers theft. it doesn't cover "acts of God". but i feel sorry for the small business owners, too.


Like I said, from experience, for every one person in LA who looted/rioted for a perceived "cause" there were five who did it becuase no one was there to stop them. There was no noble cause, no self preservation. It was plain and simply lawlessness because they could.

REAL anarchy (not that romanticised bullshit OaO likes to drone on about at excruciating length) is like that. It's shitty. But be real, when civil society GOES BYE BYE, so do most people's ethics. Whatever, it's fucked up. But who do you guys think you are to sit in your cozy chairs in your climate controlled environment and pass judgement on people you've never met in a situation you'll (I sincerely hope) never face? Just give it a rest. You wanna put energy into this disaster - let's do something positive.



I suppose it's possible that it happened but I don't recall hearing stories of widespread looting in the wake of the tsunami. I would venture to guess that many of the people affected by that were equally destitute, if not more so, lost just as much, etc.

i'm sure most of the folks affected by the tsunami did what they had to do to survive. breaking into wal-mart probably wasn't an option for most of them, but don't you remember hearing anything about people hoarding relief supplies? jostling for power and control over who distributed aid in Sri Lanka? all the folks talking about it on the radio didn't really help the aid get to the people any faster.

so, i guess... what's your point? poor people sure are rotten?
rich people can be just as rotten, they just steal more subtley.

example: i just heard Mayor Ray Nagin ordered 1,500 police officers to leave their search-and-rescue mission tonight and return to the streets to stop looting.

people's property has just been valued higher than people's lives. :(


i'm not happy about any of this.

[AChimp]

If people weren't such fucking animals, those cops could be could be still searching-and-rescuing. You see, if you allow people to loot from stores and rationalize it by saying, "Oh, the poor souls! They lost everything!", pretty soon it escalates into people stealing from each other. Then you truly have chaos, and for what reason? Because you were apologetic and let things get out of hand early.

It's not like those people aren't going to get any help. They're living in the richest country in the world. Thousands of National Guard troops are out there doing shit, which is a lot more than most other countries can respond with.

I stand by my opinion that the looters should be shot on sight. As for the state of the city, that's what you get for living in a pit by the ocean. There was ample warning to leave. If you can't afford a bus or car, you can walk your fat ass out of town. Like the do in other countries.

[Dr. Boogie]

I hope they start shooting looters.

That would make a good video game, actually.

Looter Shooter.:lol

[KevinTheOmnivore]

yes, because these people are all out there stealing beer and hot dogs. they aren't stealing food, water, weapons, and whatever they think they need to survive.

really, you're being a jackass and looking down on people you've never met who are in a situation you've never faced.

shut the fuck up.

Are you joking, or are you really playing resident sociologist?

I heard that a plane trying to land with medical supplies for needy hospitals couldn't land because 100 (!) looters were roaming the runway. That isn't "trying to survive," that's taking advantage of tragedy and misery. That's a militia.

I can understand people grabbing shit off of Walmart's shelves because they need bottled water and food. But no, I REFUSE to understand the stealing of TVs, appliances, or other superfluous material goods (particularly since you're not going to have electricity, jackass!).

I know desparate people do desparate things, but when it comes down to it, I personally believe it's moments of chaos and lawlessness that test character. Clearly, the looters are a minority of the effected. Does that not mean anything?

[ziggytrix]

ok, fine. shoot them, whatever. i don't give a fuck.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Gimme a break. I don't think AChimp's stance on the matter is the middle-of-the-road, moderate view on this. He's a rare bird-- a Canadian fascist.

I don't think we need to start publicly executing people for looting. But I also don't think it's reactionary to expect a little bit more of people during trying times.

[GAsux]

Im not a fan of moral relativism and quite frankly, people judge people all the time. If you sir would like to come on here and claim to be above that then so be it. If looting and lawlessness is completely justified in your mind, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

In mine, there is no justification for taking advantage of a horrible situation to get yourself a new pair of Nike's, a diamond chain, or a 9mm. Not saying that's everyone, but there are plenty doing it and that's disgusting in my eyes becuase clearly I'm a pretentious, insensitive prick.

[AChimp]

Yep. I'm a fascist for thinking that the law needs to be enforced using extreme force under extreme circumstances. You'd only have to shoot a few people before the rest of them remembered that looting is illegal.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Right, and the absolute best way to enforce existing law is to practice it in its most extreme form.

You do know that we don't shoot first as the norm here, right? I'm not familiar with the workings on how to deal with "animals" in Canada....

[AChimp]

OH NOES! LET'S PULL OUT TEH SILLY CANADIAN JOKES LOLZ

In other news:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/1282151.html Check the date

And they should be playing this song to get people to leave faster:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/tragicallyhip/neworleansissinking.html :lol

[KevinTheOmnivore]

OH NOES! LET'S PULL OUT TEH SILLY CANADIAN JOKES LOLZ

Funny. But actually, I think the emphasis was on the "animals" coment, which secures you a nomination for the "suspiciously veiled comment of the year" award.

[ziggytrix]

If looting and lawlessness is completely justified in your mind, then you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

did i fucking say that? all i was trying to say is that they are in a totally fucked up situation, and deserve at LEAST as much slack as those jackasses in LA who rioted over that Rodney King beating.

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions, but i'm really not shocked by them, cuz i kind of think people are assholes, even the ones who go on at length about how morally superior they are.

[GAsux]

do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions, but i'm really not shocked by them, cuz i kind of think people are assholes, even the ones who go on at length about how morally superior they are.

Are you referring to you or me? Kind of ironic don't you think that you're judging my judgement of others and making veiled references to what you think my sense of moral superiority might be?

By the way, yes, I am morally superior to thugs and criminals stealing things they don't need to survive. Deal with it.

[ziggytrix]

not you specifically. but sure, i think you're an asshole, too.

[Preechr]

But be real, when civil society GOES BYE BYE, so do most people's ethics. Whatever, it's fucked up.

Maybe from now on I'll only post in response to extremely "right-wing" things supposedly liberal folks say to point out how a lot of you confuse liberalism (or conservatism for that matter) with authoritarianism.

Ziggy, how do you feel about the idea that society and the structure it "provides" GIVES US our sense of ethics? If I were Judge Roy Moore and I wanted to move to your state in order to join the government and GIVE YOU a better sense of ethics, would you be Ok with that? What you've said so far leads me to agree *gasp* with AChimp's assassment that you are a closet looter yourself.

Society and government comes from us. We don't exist or thrive because society allows us the privilege. If your sense of ethics is something you get from society, doesn't that mean that the only reason you're not completely un-ethical is because you're simply keeping up appearances for your neighbors?

You also seem to have a hard time drawing a line between those that steal bread and those that steal Plasma Televisions. The motivations are entirely different, aren't they?

Since I'm already typing, my solution would be to fence the whole area off and let it stabilize itself once all those that don't want to live in MadMaxWaterWorld are safely out. Give it about two months, time which could be spent devising a good way to pump all that water out, and send some teams in to hunt down/ dig up the piles of jewelry, Nikes and useless electronic booty the looters hoarded up and likely died defending.

Whatever is recovered can be turned over to the insurance companies which actually DO cover acts of God like windstorms and whatnot. They don't cover FLOODs unless flood insurance is purchased separately, and they don't cover those that didn't purchase coverage, and some policies might have funky stipulations for those that live in coastal areas, but if a windstorm knocks your house or business down and you have insurance, your stuff is likely covered.

Insurance companies have gone out of business due to previous hurricanes. That's probably not because they don't cover hurricanes, wouldn't you think?

Chances are those that are stealing TVs in New Orleans haven't suffered some sort of major change in their ethics and/or personalities because they "lost everything they had." It's much more likely that they are the same people now as they were before the storm and they probably never had much to lose in any sense.

[ziggytrix]

i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions
i do NOT think all the looters are justified in their actions

[Preechr]

Yeah it's sad that when the shit hits the fan we act like the animals we are, but I'd bet you wouldn't do much better in their shoes.

If my car, my house, and all my stuff were suddenly gone, and I was too poor to afford insurance, I'd give thought to going into that jewelry store and recouping some losses.

If I didn't know where my next meal was coming from and I was hearing gunfire in the streets, I wouldn't have to think twice about swiping a shotgun and some shells from the Walmart.

[AChimp]

Pwned.

[ziggytrix]

I'm not saying he should have killed her, but I understand

i can feel sorry for someone and think they're doing the wrong thing at the same time. why is this so hard for you to understand?[/quote]

[xbxDaniel]

The shit going on down south is pretty serious right now. Just try and donate if you can, and don't bash others for not jumping out of their chair at their computer to run down there and help them all.

About the looters though, I don't aprove of the actions and I can see why people are pissed about it. I do agree that looters should be penalized somehow. I think murder is a pretty big penalty though, and I don't think they should be shot as soon as they are caught. I don't know all the facts and I won't pretend that I do, I just hope this all settles down within a month. I just hope the news doesn't keep whoring the story though, the world's pretty depressing as it is.

Please donate (http://www.redcross.org/donate/donate.html) if you can or have the means, or just chill out at home and hope for the best. Just don't be an ass to the true victims, the looters I don't really care if you piss on them.