Counting Crows again

[LobsterMagnet]

Life sucks.

There's this girl... (as all stories with an upsetting ending start off)

Our math teacher (32 years old, coach of the 7th grade girls basketball and volleyball team, owns a comic book store, lives with his parents) would always harass her. He'd stare at her ass/tits and get real close to her when he'd help her out with work. He'd always try looking up her skirt when she'd wear one.

Well, I just happen to be in love with this girl. Finally, someone said something to the assistant principal, and he yelled at the math teacher, and threatened to fire him and all that fun stuff. Well now he doesn't so much as look at her. But that first part is what started all this.

She got pulled out of class to get talked to, and then the lunch bell rings. The halls clear out, and her locker is right across the hall from mine. Well I was taking my time getting to my car, and I saw her, and I asked her what that was all about. She was in a rush to get her books into her locker so she could rush out to the car to go to lunch (with all the "popular" people that aren't really good friends to her, but she gets drunk with all the time). She wouldn't look up at me, and she was trying to talk but she kept getting choked up, and she was real short of breath. I grabbed her hand, and asked her if she was ok. She started crying and told me about how "it didn't really bother her, but she just couldn't beleive that it got to the point that the teachers had to get involved." Right when her voice broke, and she started crying, I got that feeling in my stomach/body that you get when you find out that someone close to you/a family memeber just died.

I put my arm around her, and she was walking really fast, and trying to get out to the car before all her "friends" left. She got out there, and looked for the car, and said "they left."

Something about the way she said that just broke my heart. It's just.... inexplicable. I don't know. It made me want to cry. It was like she just admitted defeat to life.

Then she saw the car pulling out, and caught up with them as she wiped away her tears. As she was walking, she said "I'll be fine, but thanks for caring." I was just left there trembling and confused.
I felt the worst I've ever felt, and I didn't know what to do. The only natural reaction I had was to go have a cigarette to calm myself down, and I hadn't smoked for almost 4 months. She came back from luch, and she was trying her hardest to play it off, but I could see that it did something to her. I could bareley sleep that night... all I could do was think about her. I don't know why, but really fucked me up to see her like that.

She came in the next day, and she still couldn't talk, and I could see her wiping tears away all through math class. She said she was fine, and I wanted to stop by her house after school and try to talk to her, but I know it would've been real akward, and I didn't have the balls to do it, so I just drove around for 3 hours chain smoking and thinking about her.

It's like 2 weeks later, and still, every time I see her/think about her, I get physically ill. I start shaking, and I can't think straight. I know I need to say something to her, but we've been (somewhat close) friends for almost 5 years, and I don't want to jepordize the relationship we've already got. She's the only somewhat intelectual person I can talk to anymore. Without her, I'd have nothing, but I don't really have her. I can't stop thinking about her. She's just got this luminescent personallity, and I know for a fact that her and I would make a great couple... I know she wants it too, but she's just got so many complexes preventing it.

If I were a ''cooler'' person, I know we'd be a couple, but she's so overly worried about her social status/what people think of her that she couldn't do something like that.

The other thing is it seems as if she's not the type of girl to have a mutual loving relationship, but she's the type of girl who wants to be obtained and taken care of, not ''interactive,'' so to speak.

I just don't know what to do. All I can do is sit here and listen to Counting Crows and be depressed. It fucking sucks. I know it'll ruin things forever if I tell her how I feel, but I need to be in love with her, not at her.

I was thinking of getting real drunk with just her and me, and that way I know I'd tell her, but I don't think it would do anything but create tension and akwardness anyway.

I just don't know what to do.

[AChimp]

Right now she probably needs a regular friend more than a significant other. :(

[Fookin Flappy]

I miss high school. I think you will know when the right time to tell her comes around... if not get a friend to do it that always works .. ;)

[Jeanette X]

Just start off as friends first. The best relationships are the ones that develop out of friendships. If you try to date her now you're only going to end up scaring her away.

Keep being supportive, but make sure you don't pry or invade her privacy.

Hope I helped. . :(

[LobsterMagnet]

That's the problem. We've been close freinds for almost 5 years, and a relationship has always been just out of reach. I seriously can't take it anymore... it's like I need her to feel normal. Every day that I talk to her, and she flirts with me, I've got a smile on my face, but when I don't see her, I kinda just drudge on. I swear the girl is making me bi-polar. Sigh...

So Chimp... hows the lady situation with you? (I've been gone for a month or so)

[AChimp]

Next time you see her, make sure she notices your boner. Wear sweatpants or something. ;)

I actually have a new ladyfriend. She is very nice and pretty similar to me in personality, and she is smarter than me. She is short, but I think she is very pretty. :)

Things are progressing slowly, but we both agreed that school should take precedence right now with exams right around the corner. We haven't gone on an official date yet, so we're technically not "seeing each other," but we are very close and everyone thinks we are having teh secks. :eek

[Jixby Phillips]

we both agreed that school should take precedence right now with exams right around the corner.

http://www.iabc.com/chapters/us_6/utah/Update%209-23-02/business%20meeting%202.jpg

JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THESE STATISTICS

Lobster Magnet: GET OUT OF HIGHSCHOOL

[LobsterMagnet]

I wish I could :(

[Jixby Phillips]

At least do what I did when I was in high school: reject all your old friends, become a loner, then make new friends. Also, only talk to girls on the internet. Best decisions I've ever made.

[Royal Tenenbaum]

"We haven't gone on an official date yet, so we're technically not "seeing each other," but we are very close and everyone thinks we are having teh secks."

Actually, everybody thinks you haven't even kissed her yet.

[James]

If you're friends witha girl, it will never become anything more. You either start out in a relationship, or one never developes. And since love isn't real anyway, you shouldn't feel bad when I say "Forget about her, because you're fucked. Find some other girl to lust after."

Forget about her, because you're fucked. Find some other girl to lust after.

[AChimp]

Actually, everybody thinks you haven't even kissed her yet.


And they would all be right. :O

[Jixby Phillips]

I tried the love thing with a friend of mine. It failed. FAILED FAILED FAILED. But oddly enough we are even better friends than we ever were. Like when we see each other we are a lot more comfortable with each other and and can talk for hours. I guess it's because we've both seen the worst of each other. Whenever a somebody suggests we get back together again we laugh in their face. and we MEAN it. That love shit sucked.

Everything works out for me :lol :lol :lol

[Jeanette X]

Damn Lobster, I don't know what to tell you. I have another friend who has been in a similair situation for a really long time...sorry man, wish I could help. :(

[AChimp]

OMG JIXBY. ARE YOU FRIENDS WITH PRIVILEDGES? :eek

[Anonymous]

Actually, everybody thinks you haven't even kissed her yet.
Right. Because you won't be a REAL man until 'second base has been fully explored.'

If you're friends witha girl, it will never become anything more. You either start out in a relationship, or one never developes.
That isn't even close to the case. Not that you'd have a frame of reference, but still. Dating as a method of 'getting to know' people is stupid for all sorts of reasons, but I'll list a few: The only thing you'll 'get to know' is how they act when on dates, it's expensive, and the only efficient way to do it is to date several people at once, guaranteeing that at least several peoples' feelings will get hurt (which is more or less of a problem depending on how violent they are). Personally, I hadn't even gone out on an official date with my SO before, as Snake would say, "going into extra innings and later allowing the third-base coach to 'fully explore' my colon with a Louisville Slugger."

[Protoclown]

Lobster, sorry if I've got any of this wrong, I found your initial post a bit hard to follow.

But it sounds to me like she doesn't really care about you much, from what you were saying about how she's so concerned with how people would view her, and how it would affect her "social status". Fuck her, she's not worth it.

If somebody is that shallow that she only cares about popularity and friends that don't really give a damn about her, then she's not worth talking to.

You'd do best to forget about her completely and move on. High school is so full of bullshit it's not even funny. When you get out of high school, everything will be completely different, you'll see.

She doesn't sound like anything special, so no big loss there, you ask me.

[Skulhedface]

That's about the biggest problem right there is that you guys ARE still in high school. I hate to say this because I am usually an optimistic person, but reality is that as time goes on, the chances of meeting someone in high school, going on to marry them and living happily ever after are falling exponentially. I don't know why, and I'm not so presumptuous as to say I have my finger on it, but life is such. Nobody ever said life was fair, and the only way to even the odds, or shift life to favor you at least once in awhile, is to allow yourself to realize:

The average human life span is about 75 years. Do you have cancer? Heart trouble? Terminal illness? If you answered no to any of these questions, then what you should look at is that, assuming you're a HS Senior, you still have about 58 years to live. Things don't happen right away. Odds are you will not find the love of your life in high school (not saying it WON'T happen, but it's not beyond the scope of reality here) So you have about 58 years to find the love of your life. My biggest mistake in love was trying to rush it all, to try and grab for my slice of the pie before I was ready for it, and it all came down on me in the end. As a result, I lost the girl of my dreams but I am fine with it because I realize life DOES go on, that we do care about other people but the only person in anyone's lives that can make anything better for themselves is themselves, and that in the end we are happy if the other is happy.

So essentially, it's good that you do care for this girl's feelings, but the worst thing you could do in my opinion ( I added that because ultimately it's YOUR decision) is try to jump into something romantic with this girl. If she needs you, it's as simple as being there. If you two hang out enough, and you be yourself, it will show. Girls aren't stupid, she will be able to pick it up sooner or later. Whether something bigger develops between you two is up to her because obviously you don't mind it becoming something bigger. But don't inflate your hopes too high, because you'll be building this up in your mind and set your expectations so unrealistically that on the chance you finally DO make your feelings known, she will shy away from it and wreck the friendship.

Bottom line, be SUBTLE about it, DON'T let your hopes inflate TOO big, and if she doesn't catch on (or chooses not to catch on) think about this: Maybe she's being polite and trying to turn you down gently (after all, girls aren't stupid) because she DOES value your friendship, and SHE feels that taking it to another level will ruin that. Ultimately, if you feel for this girl like you say you do, if you really have substance behind those words and not just teenage lust, then you should be comfortable knowing that even though you two together isn't in the cards, at least you made her happy. At least, if her life is going bad and there's little YOU can do about it, that little you COULD and DID do will mean so much more for both parties in the long run. Give it time.

[James]

That isn't even close to the case. Not that you'd have a frame of reference, but still.

I beg to differ. After you've been friends with a girl for a while, they see you as just a friend, and not as a potential relationship. And once they find out you have those sorts of feelings for them, they get all wierded out, like you're not their friend anymore.

You put it out on the table, and it stays there. They can't stop thinking of you as being some guy who has a boner for them. You lose everything.

Just one of the many reasons why girls are ICKY. >:

[jin]

Personally, I hadn't even gone out on an official date

Thats the same as me, and its really changed my thinking.

In our relationship, the trivialities dont really matter, we dont know our anniversary date, how long weve been going out or a lot of the other stuff that can really cloud up a elationship with a lot of useless information.

It also reduces the "I HAVE to do this"or "I HAVE to do that" mentallities, so we are together and do what we want, just for the fun of it and because we want too.

So far this is the best relationship she or I have ever been in simply because its about having fun together rather than being forced to mould ourselves to stereotypes.

But back to Magnet -

Really, i have to agree with the others on this one, you are still in high school and really, everything is bullshit there.

Once you are free it will really change your perspectives.

Also, it is true she may seem shallow that she is just trying to earn acceptance but in high school nearly every girl and guy is trying to earn acceptance, or fit in to a clique, even if they say otherwise or seem act in a contrary manner, no one really truly wants to be on their own.

I was actually stuck in the same sort of problem that you are in for a really long time, and it wasnt until I realised that it was really just a fixation on the idea or a just... reluctance(?) to giving up the fantasy of being together (just in love with the dream rather than the person), that I "gave up" and it was after this freedom from the idealism and the aching that i found someone i really clicked with and cared about deeply.

All i can say is look at yourself and your feelings from a critical point of view and think if you really Love this girl, or is it something else?

Also after this, my friendship with the girl only got a lot better and easier because there wasnt the constant longing and having to keep up a facade to hold me back.

PS. Hes right - girls are ICKY.

ahEhahehaehahheHAEaeaehaEHhahe

[Skulhedface]

Jin, you are truly a wise man :love

[Jeanette X]

Jin and Skulhedface, you guys should be professional therapists! :worship

[Skulhedface]

Jeanette... I'd love to get paid for such a thing, but how easily could one follow my advice before one of my patients blurted out "but HEY! Didn't a girl you LIVED WITH and were essentially ENGAGED to for TWO YEARS dump you only to move in with another guy less than a whole WEEK later?!?" At least I'd have the authority to prescribe these people horrific drugs for pointing that out >:

But I'd do it. Anything to make $200 an hour hee hee hee :)

[Jeanette X]

You'd be suprised how many therapists had a lot of personal problems. Its usually what motivates them to become therapists in the first place.

[Black Flag]

Jamesman - Every girlfriend I've ever had has been my friend long before we had a relationship.

[Skulhedface]

You'd be suprised how many therapists had a lot of personal problems. Its usually what motivates them to become therapists in the first place.

Well, I'd rather work out my own personal problems first. But there is a sense of satisfaction if someone got something meaningful out of one of my pep talks :lol

[Professor Cool]

Lobster,

this problem has happned to me before, you see a girl, she's really nice, she has some problems, you feel you can't live without her. This happened to me in my high school years, and as already state, high school sucks when it comes to relationships. You seem to have alot of compassion for this girl, and it may be making you mistake this for love. I could be wrong but that is what happened to me. All this girl i knew needed was a sholder to cry on, and not someone to love. And i made a stupid mistake. And then i got depressed and became a wreak over something that could of been easily avoided. To you, still be her friend and support her, but unless your positive she really has feeling for you, stand back. It's probably hard for you to just go and forget her as being the one you think is your true love, it might be hard to still be her friend after having these feelings, but you got to move on, find someone and go on a date, just for kicks, not for anything meaningful. And don't go looking for love until after high school liked everyone else said, because i knew people who married their "High School Sweethearts" and they ended up in dissapointment,betrayal, and even divorce. That's all i have to say. I apologize if I repeated what someone else said in any way, I tried to be original. :/

Good Luck, Lobster

[LobsterMagnet]

Sigh...

I don't even know what's what anymore. I kinda realize that it's still highschool, but I still have this naive selfish hope that something's gonna happen. Anything. I kinda need something of substance in this whole circus of regrets... some kind of affrimation from her that lets me know she knows what's up.

I saw that a lot of people used the word "lust" in their posts. I just wanted to clairify that it's far from that. I don't even know what it is anymore, but the sex part of it isn't the highest of my priorities list. Shit... I've got no problem waiting.

I think that what Jin said is the closest to the truth... I think I've become overwhelmed with the thought of the fantasy of us being together more than I have of the reality of what it'd be.

When we first met in junior high, it was because one of her friends called me up and told me she wanted to go out with me. I'd never met her before that, but I went over to her house, and we hung out, and "dated" for about 3-4 months. It was junior high though, so we were both too young for it to mean anything. Then, my freshman year, about a year or so later, she was in a couple of my classes, and I just couldn't help but love the girl. She's just got something that attracts me to her... I know it's her personality, but she's really sexy too. She's just the kind of girl you can either get drunk with, watch sunsets with, or take home to mom and dad. She just seems perfect... or the closest to it that I'll ever find.

It's not as if I envision myself sweeping her off of her feet, marrying her, and spending the rest of my life with her; I just want something. Anything.

As for what Proto said, yes, she does seem shallow. The problem is, I can see past it. I absoloutely know that she loves me, but she's too much like her sister... she gets caught up in the whole status thing, but, like I said, I can see past it. I can see that she's not the person that she wants to be, and that truely, she's lonely. That's one of the main reasons I'm drawn to her... I feel the same.

I can just envision her (and I know this happens... I've talked to her about it before) sitting home alone at night in her bed depressed as shit with nothing to do, because all of her "freinds" are too busy to call her, and for some reason, that just kills me. It's like she's empty inside, and I just want to be there for her, but she doesn't know that. Sigh...

I always envisioned her and I as something that'd always be on the back burner of my life, and I'd eventually tell her at graduation or something, but it's not anymore. I know I need to tell her. I just have to big of a fear of rejection. I know that, like Jamesman said, if I put all this shit on the table, it's gonna stay there, and I'm gonna lose what I've got.

The only thing I can think of doing is waiting for the summer weather, and then one night, I'll just go buy some beer and a bottle of Jack, and we'll go up to the park, just her and me, and get real drunk. That way, I know I'll end up telling her what I think, and it'll be over with. :(

Thanks for all the replies, guys (and girls). The advice really does help... that way I have other people to think this over for me.

Sigh...

[LobsterMagnet]

Another thought...

My best friend and I aren't on speaking terms any more as of late... his selfish streak came out again and he fucked me over a whole bunch of times after saying "I can change" a hundred times, so I won't talk to him any more. Same deal with her...

He and I became best friends around the same time as her and I, and when he ditched me in junior high (for the first time), he became real good friends with her.

He was her only "real" friend for a long time, and he just fucked her over a whole bunch of times too, like I mentioned before. We're all somewhat similar in personality, and we all seem to click. What I just thought of is maybe, using some form of ass backwards logic, my brain figured that if a=b, and b=c, then a=c, and it told me that if I lose b, then go to c. We both lost my buddy Josh as a best friend, and that means that we've both got no one to talk to, and we're kinda lost at this time in life, so I think I kinda want to use eachother to supplement for what's missing, and create the relationship that I've always known was potentially there right now while I've got somewhat of a chance.

:( I'm so confused...

[noob3]

Write her a note

"FUCK FUCK FUCK PENIS IN YOUR HOLE"

Word up.

[Royal Tenenbaum]

"Right. Because you won't be a REAL man until 'second base has been fully explored.'"

No, we just don't think Chimp is having sex with his friend.

[Anonymous]

After you've been friends with a girl for a while, they see you as just a friend, and not as a potential relationship. And once they find out you have those sorts of feelings for them, they get all wierded out, like you're not their friend anymore.
Not at all, it's the way you go about it that makes that happen.

I was actually stuck in the same sort of problem that you are in for a really long time, and it wasnt until I realised that it was really just a fixation on the idea or a just... reluctance(?) to giving up the fantasy of being together (just in love with the dream rather than the person), that I "gave up" and it was after this freedom from the idealism and the aching that i found someone i really clicked with and cared about deeply.
Yep, I was talking about the same thing with Helm the other day, except I just said that I used to be 'In love with being in love.' Two weeks after I became completely comfortable with being alone, I found out an old friendly acquaintance of mine that I've been getting to be better friends with recently liked me 'in another way' while I was completely oblivious. We've been together for almost three months since.

[Jeanette X]

Write her a note

"FUCK FUCK FUCK PENIS IN YOUR HOLE"

Word up.

Ah, what woman wouldn't be swept of her feet?

[James]

Not at all, it's the way you go about it that makes that happen.

Or... it could be that women are just stupid bitches 90% of the time.

And Blackflag, if that's how your relationships start out, more power to you. Maybe only the girls in Connecticut are just dumb sluts (Jeanette X, I'm looking at you. >:).

[Jeanette X]

Not at all, it's the way you go about it that makes that happen.

Or... it could be that women are just stupid bitches 90% of the time.

And Blackflag, if that's how your relationships start out, more power to you. Maybe only the girls in Connecticut are just dumb sluts (Jeanette X, I'm looking at you. >:).

What the fuck was that for?! What did I do to piss you off?!

[Anonymous]

Or... it could be that women are just stupid bitches 90% of the time.
Yeah, it's far more likely that the problem lies with half the people on earth, rather than you.

What the fuck was that for?! What did I do to piss you off?!
Next time you get a PM subjected "HOT DATE??" ?


Don't delete it.

[James]

Hello Jeanette, I'm a joke. Take me?

And Chojin, not to continue trying to defend myself here, but I can admit my shortcomings. And my experiences, the ones I'm thinking about were not my fault. They weren't anyone's fault really; A girl can't help who she has feelings for.

Now let me be bitter and call all women bitches. >:

[Jeanette X]

Hello Jeanette, I'm a joke. Take me?

Oh...okay then.

[sadie]

can you say defensive, boys and girls?

[AChimp]

Telling a girl how you feel while sober usually means much more and makes a bigger impression.

You may now manhandle me.

[Skulhedface]

There's always that chance that if the two of you got drunk, you wouldn't REMEMBER telling her, and you'd be back at square one.

Also, if I was in that situation, I don't see myself being able to be very celebratory in the event that she said "YES I LOVE YOU TOO!" if I was nursing a pounding hangover. That in itself would kinda be insulting, I'd think.

Look, I hate to say it, but there IS no easy way out. Not without consequences. Whether you believe love exists or not, or whether you've ever felt it or not, there's no denying that it IS one of the strongest human emotions there is, and the strongest emotions often cloud our judgement and fuck things up. That's why it's important to think this through. I know this sounds cheesy but it works... HINT AROUND IT. Slip a few cleverly worded questions into a conversation when appropriate, and take your answers from that. I never said it'd be easy, but unfortunately, all the best things in life require hard work. But if you love this girl as much as you say you do, wouldn't it be worth it?

And sorry to pull this off subject for a minute, but I've got a gripe of my own. As some of you may know, me and my girl broke up about two weeks ago, bla bla bla she's already been dating again bla bla bla... well, she's been calling me every day, for at least an hour, she suddenly actually seems more interested in me now than she did while we were dating (granted, we saw each other EVERY day for two years) and yesterday she had a more loving, dare I say seductive tone in her voice, i.e. she had a more breathy, Monroe-ish hint in her voice, which is VERY unusual for her. Do you think I'm reading too far into it, or is there something else going on?

[Pub Lover]

or is there something else going on?


She was having sex at the time. ;)

[Skulhedface]

:lol Not really, being that I was dating her for two years and sex was more or less a daily thing, I know what she sounded like during the act :P

Since more has happened SINCE then involving me, I'll discuss it later, but only when I have it sorted out myself first. All I know is, all signs point to her wanting to be back together with me, and I do mean ALL signs, except she's too worried about hurting her new man's feelings. Hmm....

Maybe HE should be worried. When he's at work and I'm not, she's always over here.