Lifejacket or Bowling Shirt?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I know at one point, FEMA blocked civilians with boats from doing rescue work in NO because they didn't have life jackets. :/

[El Blanco]

well.......ya, Kevin. There is a reason professionals usually bring all that stuff.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'm sure the people who baked on their rooftop because that boat didn't have life jackets would agree with your terribly bureacratic sensibilities.

Aren't you, being a conservative, supposed to hate red tape and bureacracy?

[El Blanco]

Yes, but what good is a bunch of under equpipped civilians going in to "rescue" people when they end up drowning themselves?

If you are trapped i na burnng building, do you want to see a guy in a bowling shirt and blue jeans, or the guy with the helmet, oxygen tank, etc etc?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I don't believe you can have it both ways. You can't say "local government failed, state government failed, and FEMA failed," and then say that civilians should've sat back and done nothing.

The unfortunate trith is that New Orleans in particular is full of stories of individuals and groups of citizens taking charge and picking up the pieces where all levels of government had initially failed them. I applaud those people, and if the guy with the oxygen tank and helmet whatever is never gonna get to me, and I'm fighting flood waters clinging to the top of my roof, then fuck yeah give me the guy in the bowling shirt!

[El Blanco]

So you can hold each other while you both drown?

I am for the people going out and stepping up to help each other. Awesome. Great. I wish we had more like them.


However, things like life jackets are kind of important. Otherwise, the heros will cause more problems than they are solving.

What if you're on a roof starving and watching a helicopter pass you over to pull out a boat full of people drowning?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I think under typical circumstances, what you said applies. I think New Orleans was anything but typical, and to prevent people from going to rescue people (in fact, I believe they were targeting particular friends or whomever that they knew were in jeopardy) because they didn't have life jackets is silly, IMO.

[sadie]

i agree. the only way the "heros" would be causing more problems is by endangering themselves. and hell, if someone's willing to risk his own life to save another's, we should be applauding him, not holding him back.

[El Blanco]

But then you need to go in and rescue him, which further complicates the relief efforts.

What I'd like to see is the officals down there put up some sort of list with what equipment you'd need to help out. Then, people would know what to bring in order to join the rescue efforts.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

You show very little faith in men with bowling shirts.

[ziggytrix]

SCENE: Partially flooded house. Lights are flickering, debris is everywhere and there is the sound of children crying as the waters rise.

Trapped Man: Please, you gotta get us outta here!

Rescuer: I can't get to you, and if those electric lines get any closer to the water, we're all gonna get a bad shock.

Trapped Man: But I can't get to the breaker box, the door is blocked and there's only enough room for maybe someone to throw a small object at the box.

Man in the Bowling Shirt: Hold on guys, I've been training my whole life for this moment!

[Rongi]

Wasn't it here that there was a post about some rescue workers who ordered some women to lift their shirts before they would rescue them?

that is one of the most disgusting things i've ever heard

[Big Papa Goat]

It's not like lifejackets are an obscure and overly buerecratic requirement for people to work in a flodded city.

if someone's willing to risk his own life to save another's, we should be applauding him, not holding him back.

It's pretty retarded to be risking your life by not bringing something as simple as a lifejacket.

[sadie]

well, maybe you'd rather die than be rescued by a retard when your city is flodded.

[Skulhedface]

The only reason I'd see it as stupid is if the rescue WAS botched.

Then you'd have lawsuits.... man...

Otherwise I coulc give a fuck less. I'd rather have SOME chance of survival than none at all. Could YOU feasibly see yourself roasting alive on top of your roof for a week with no food and no water and keep your attitude about you?

Like being lost in the woods... your own arm starts looking tasty after a week, doesn't it?

[Big Papa Goat]

Jesus, its not a matter of having to eat your own arms, its a matter of buying and bringing a ten dollar lifejacket that could easily save your life and perhaps more importantly, save other life savers from having to save your life rather then the people that originally needed to be saved.
It's not like they have to bring fire extingushers or little reflective strips on their clothes, its floatation devices in a place that is filled with water.

[hawaiian mage]

If they fell into the water, couldn't they have swam the 5 or so feet to the boat without a life jacket?

?

[Big Papa Goat]

yes
lifejackets are basically never useful

[hawaiian mage]

But people were dehydrated, overheated, and stranded? And the waters were stagnant anyway, right?

I really don't see your point of view. How is not bringing a life jacket going to do more harm than good? Pretend I'm a three year old and explain it.

[El Blanco]

Because if the rescuer somehow gets into trouble, he will draw more efforts away from the people already out there.

Its not like they are being turned away because they aren't properly insured or someother red tape bullshit. A life jacket is pretty damned essential.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

No bowling shirts either?

[hawaiian mage]

Sorry, I know sexual harrassment is a weird thing for firefighters to need, but I'm just really confused about this lifejacket thing!

I seriously don't understand why one is "essential." It seems like more of the present societies overprotection problem. I'm imagining that if lots of people were going in more than half would be getting out with extra people, and that means less relief effort, right?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I was interjecting, I don't want responsibility for this!

[Dr. Boogie]

It's too late, KevinTheOmnivore. Or should I say, KevinTheBowler!?

[kellychaos]

Wasn't it here that there was a post about some rescue workers who ordered some women to lift their shirts before they would rescue them?

that is one of the most disgusting things i've ever heard

Bowlers would have asked to see their legs.

[Abcdxxxx]

There's no logic behind making half a city starve just so you can be sure those 40 civilians in boats don't happen to maybe possibly have an accident.

The reason why Guiliani and his crew ended up being called heros (for just doing their jobs really) is because they had the good sense to look the other way and let people get in there in help. They didn't stop steel workers and make sure they were accredited, union, American citizens.....

[davinxtk]

http://24.91.164.230/bowling.jpg

vs

http://24.91.164.230/lifejacket.jpg






Who's your hero?