Pagans?

[Immortal Goat]

I know that we have at least one Satanist here, but I am curious to see if we have any members of Pagan beliefs, such as Wicca.

For those of you who are not Pagan, what are your opinions of the Pagan religions?

[kahljorn]

1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.

[Middle English, from Late Latin pgnus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pgus, country, rural district. See pag- in Indo-European Roots.]
COUNTRY DWELLER

You'll find most people lie in those boundaries ;/
Wicca isn't(really) paganism, unless you class it under the "Neo-pagan" which is basically a simple way of saying they are stupid fucks. Whatever you do don't invest any time in wicca, they are all liars and dirty sacks of shit. "WE FOLLOW THE ANCIENT WAYS" you'll find pagans who are usually wiccan often saying, but WICCA as it's known today(Gardenerian wicca) was invented in the 1950's, it's just a ridiculous concoction of various other pagan beliefs rolled into one. Also, wicca has two fucking gods(more, really) and most worship the female one which i find to be equally ridiculous, and not because it's female but because they limit themselves based on their childish nature.
Also, wicca's act retarded and never learn anything new. They prefer staleness and boring unprogressive thoughts.

You should invest your time in some "Real" paganism like shamanism or even something like yoga... just anything that doesn't practice empowerment through their ridiculously egocentric ways. There's alot of popular books out by a guy named Carlos Canstenada that you might find interesting and you can find them in any Barnes and Noble.
Although I have met some people who learned gardenerian witchcraft as a sort of precursor to what they are doing now and they seemed to have turned out okay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

they have names of other "Pagan" religions there ;/
Good luck el bucko, and if you want any information on something let me know and I'll find it for you.

[kahljorn]

Actually, fuck all that and go get a book by Alfred Korzybski.

[Preechr]

I thought it was 3 Gods, 1 Female and 2 Male... :/

Old European Paganism is fun to look at because that's where modern Christianity gets most of it's seemingly senseless array of traditions and symbols. As for any non-entertainment oriented benefit to paganism, I guess, maybe... early work on the calendar?

[kellychaos]

Old European Paganism is fun to look at because that's where modern Christianity gets most of it's seemingly senseless array of traditions and symbols.

Maybe that's because the "origins" come from with humanity itself? It's just too much coincidence elsewise. :/

Just how many pagan threads are we going to start?

[Immortal Goat]

I didn't know there were that many pagan threads here. And about the comments made about Wicca, I don't know anybody that falls into the catagory that Kahljorn put them in, and I know quite a few Wiccans. The ones I know are under no delusions of how "ancient" their ways are, and they worship both the Godess and the God, which is basically the way the older beliefs was.

Not saying that they are all like that, but the ones I know definitely aren't that way. I was looking into many forms of Paganism, Wicca included, but also shamanism and Druidic beliefs.

[kahljorn]

"I thought it was 3 Gods, 1 Female and 2 Male... Oh Well "

"Also, wicca has two fucking gods(more, really)."

There's this stupid wiccan bitch I know and she always goes around saying, "By the Goddess..." [other person responds] "Because you know, there is a God and a Goddess."
Wiccans are so ridiculous(or whatever the fuck religion they call themselves).
The alpha male of this particular group fancies himself an alchemist because he can extract DMT from dmt containing plants. Also, they practice the, "Ancient ways". They all have big noses and an annoying nasaly voice.
One of them is missing half of his two front teeth and follows Poseidon, god of the sea. "MY GOD IS POSEIDON".
Do you want to become this, goat? Honestly.


*edit* Sorry, I didn't read your response. Yea, like I said there are some Good ones out there, I know some people who started with wicca who are doing good for themselves so I suppose it makes a good base.
You have to admit, though, wiccans like that are hilarious.

Carlos Castenada is great to read.. i actually have some ebooks and audio books by him if you wish to read them. He learns shamanism from a Yagui guy named Don juan.
I'd reccomend the art of dreaming. The nice thing about his books is that he writes some of them in the form of a diary(sort of) so you are getting to see what his yagui master said to actually teach him. The art of dreaming has techniques in it to develop lucid dreaming, which is kind of fun regardless of how far you go with it. He also has books like the teachings of don juan where he gets fucked up on mescaline/peyote and meets the great mescalito. He also does jimson weed.
If you want some more wiccan sources i can give you names, and I might still have some wiccan books in ebook format... otherwise I may be able to find decent webpages.
Anything else you're interested in, too, I probably have information on it. I'd reccomend looking into hermeticism and maybe gnostic teachings. Yoga, maybe even voodoo. most people I know who learned voodoo said their trancing techniques are useful and being able to trance can b e useful for any pagan religion.

Korzybski is just a great read regardless. You should look him up.

[Preechr]

stupid wiccan bitch

...and I think they prefer to be called "witches."

[Immortal Goat]

That definitely sounds like the polar opposite of thw Wiccans I know. If I had to guess, they probably wouldn't be considered Wiccan outside their own circle. The Wiccans I know believe that there are only two Divine aspects, the Godess and God. There are different names for them, but they all refer to the same beings. And they don't do "alchemy", they just know what herbs to use for different things.

So, yeah, sounds like you came across some creepy goth kids that joined Wicca just because they liked the sound of being a "Witch". The ones I know admit that their particular brand of Paganism is rather new, but they also assimilate older traditions into their beliefs, such as shamanism and druidism. That is far from being "stale", right?

[kahljorn]

Sorry goat, i had edited my previous post check it out. While i was typing out a message I got called on the phone and we won a contest. Vacation package for two with hotel and dinner paid and everything. :)
I forgot what i was going to say, damnit.

Anyway, wiccanism in general worships the male and female nature of the world. It's not really such a bad thing to worship duality, it can actually be very beneficial.

[Archduke Tips]

I only believe in vampire and the practice of vampiring.

[kahljorn]

lol.
Did you ever read the vampire bible that Perndog bought? I stole a copy of it online, I find it to be a true teaching o fthe VAMPIRE FOLK WHO SUCK THE FLUFFY WHIPPED SOUL WITH REALLY LONG INVISIBLE TWISTY STRAWS THAT DO LOOPS AND STUFF.

[Immortal Goat]

Sorry goat, i had edited my previous post check it out. While i was typing out a message I got called on the phone and we won a contest. Vacation package for two with hotel and dinner paid and everything. :)
I forgot what i was going to say, damnit.

Anyway, wiccanism in general worships the male and female nature of the world. It's not really such a bad thing to worship duality, it can actually be very beneficial.
That's alright, Kahljorn. Thanks for offering those books, I very may well want to read them. And yes, those kinds of Witches are hilarious.

Oh, and Vampirism... lol.

[ziggytrix]

Eris is the only ancient goddess worth two shits anymore. >:

[kahljorn]

Discordianism, ziggy?

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/

Read this one:
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/11.php

You know, i think everyone on I-mockery would probably enjoy discordianism. You should check it out, read their bible, the principia discordia. it's all about the goddess eris and her golden apple.

[AChimp]

I think pagans are even bigger homos than people who follow organized religion.

[ziggytrix]

which is why i love disorganized religion!

[kahljorn]

I'm a discordian poop, no wonder why i hate you so much ziggy.

[Rosenstern]

There's this stupid wiccan bitch I know and she always goes around saying, "By the Goddess..." [other person responds] "Because you know, there is a God and a Goddess."
Wiccans are so ridiculous(or whatever the fuck religion they call themselves).

I really don't think it's that much more ridiculous than any other religion. Hypothetically, if Wicca happened to be the more common belief and not the monotheistic religions (a stupid thought, but hear me out), then someone going around informing people that there's only one male god would look equally retarded.

By the way, I'm one of those agnostic pagans.

[kahljorn]

Monotheistic religions are just as ridiculous. I don't know why you assume I favor some other religion just because i trash talked yours at it's most critical point(the stupidness).
And congratulations being an agnostic pagan. Did you know the prefix A- means Without and the word gnostic wittles down to Knowledge? Without Knowledge? Again, congratulations.

[ziggytrix]

I'm a discordian poop, no wonder why i hate you so much ziggy.

http://www.dreamspell.net/LKS/eris-frame.html

Virtual coloring book as a peace offering? :(

[VinceZeb]

I thought it was 3 Gods, 1 Female and 2 Male... :/

Old European Paganism is fun to look at because that's where modern Christianity gets most of it's seemingly senseless array of traditions and symbols. As for any non-entertainment oriented benefit to paganism, I guess, maybe... early work on the calendar?

Any reason that Old European Paganism couldn't have gotten it's traditions and symbols from Judeo-Christanity?

[mburbank]

Hey you craven little she-male, go post in the thread where I call you out and justify your lack luster performance. Then maybe someone will help you out with a great new invention called the historical timeline.

[Jeanette X]

Carlos Castenada is great to read.. i actually have some ebooks and audio books by him if you wish to read them. He learns shamanism from a Yagui guy named Don juan.
I'd reccomend the art of dreaming. The nice thing about his books is that he writes some of them in the form of a diary(sort of) so you are getting to see what his yagui master said to actually teach him. The art of dreaming has techniques in it to develop lucid dreaming, which is kind of fun regardless of how far you go with it. He also has books like the teachings of don juan where he gets fucked up on mescaline/peyote and meets the great mescalito. He also does jimson weed.
.

He does fucking jimsonweed? Seriously?



Any reason that Old European Paganism couldn't have gotten it's traditions and symbols from Judeo-Christanity?

If you bothered to crack a book once in while, you'd know that Judeo-Christianity started in the Middle East and didn't fucking spread into Europe until long after Europe had developed its own pagan traditions.

That is such an utterly stupid question that I laughed out loud at it.

[Big Papa Goat]

Because Old European Paganism is older then christianity. And the Jews didn't really interact that much with European pagans. And the only interaction that ever really happened between christians and pagans was prosetylization, unless I'm mistaken, and since it was the christians doing the prosetylizing, I don't think the pagans would have a lot of time to be adapting their symbols into their own religions, since they would be abandoning said religions at such a time as they became aware of christian symbols and so on.
That being said, it's reasonable to assume that early Christianity, being composed of a lot of people who were recently pagan would have retained a few of the symbols and so on that these people used to have.

Also, becoming a pagan seems to me like a pretty contrived and inauthentic idea.

[kahljorn]

Thank you ziggy, robert anton wilson is one of my favorite writers. I have the illuminatis trilogy and cosmic trigger and prometheus rising. Such great books. I actually enjoy reading RAW more than Timothy leary and Korzybski, mostly because he's so damnned funny but also because he just has so much knowledge ;/
If you haven't read prometheus rising and cosmic trigger by robert anton wilson I really reccomend it. Rather than being a "Sci-fi" book like the IT, it's actually more of a book on (quantum)psychology, more specifically on timothy leary's 8 circuit system(that's Prometheus Rising). He talks about alot of other stuff, too, though. Cosmic trigger is just great.
I have those books in ebook form if you want..


"He does fucking jimsonweed? Seriously?"

Yesh.. I've done jimson weed, it's pretty crazy stuff(at the time i was at this place where we had to sleep on bunk beds, and i fell off like ten times because i couldn't tell i was on a bunk bed.. where the bed ended, i thought there was a floor. The same thing would happen with stairs and just about anything else... right now im watching a daddy long legs kill a pincher bug). They also talk about Salvia divonorum quite a bit, and don juan(his teacher) tells him how jimson weed is good for power while salvia(which is what don juan uses) is good for seeing. Then a little bird attacks him and breaks his arm.
Also, when he does mescaline he pees on this guys dog and i guess the dog gets even.


"Hey you craven little she-male"

I seriously can't tell if you're talking to me or vince :(


Today i get to go deal with some retarded time-share thing so i can get my 'free' trip to mexico. This is so awesome, now i can get some fine mexican medication.(plus food, oh how i love food)

[Immortal Goat]

Also, becoming a pagan seems to me like a pretty contrived and inauthentic idea.
Well, it does seem pretty strange in the modern day world, but I have been studying it for a while now, and the beliefs just make more sense to me. I have always held a great reverence for nature, felt that the "One God, One Life" thing didn't make much sense, and that there are things that I can't explain, like Magick.

[VinceZeb]

Any reason that Old European Paganism couldn't have gotten it's traditions and symbols from Judeo-Christanity?

If you bothered to crack a book once in while, you'd know that Judeo-Christianity started in the Middle East and didn't fucking spread into Europe until long after Europe had developed its own pagan traditions.

That is such an utterly stupid question that I laughed out loud at it.

You should spend more time in the kitchen cooking dinner and less time on the internet. I know all about the conversion of the Roman Empire to Christanity during the 300's and the symbolism that was absorbed into the Chrisitian culture, such as having Christmas on Dec 25th. Yet you accuse me of never cracking a book.

I only want to hear two words out of your mouth ever again:

"Dinner's ready."

[Immortal Goat]

I'm sorry, I forgot that this was the "Cowardly bigoted asshole" thread. Silly me, thinking you would ever say anything intelligent.

[CaptainBubba]

You should spend more time in the kitchen cooking dinner and less time on the internet. I know all about the conversion of the Roman Empire to Christanity during the 300's and the symbolism that was absorbed into the Chrisitian culture, such as having Christmas on Dec 25th. Yet you accuse me of never cracking a book.


First off: Kudos for making the woman in the kitchen joke. It shows a great deal of hutspa, not to mention class.

Really all I want to say is its awesome how much leeway Christian Samurai are apparently given in the proper spelling of Christian.

[Rosenstern]

Monotheistic religions are just as ridiculous. I don't know why you assume I favor some other religion just because i trash talked yours at it's most critical point(the stupidness).

I'm not a Wiccan. I was just making an observation, you prick.

[kahljorn]

"i just happen to be one of those agnostic pagans"

I had no idea why you posted that so i thought since you were including your own belief system you were attaching yourself to it or something. Really, why else would you let me know your religion..?

[mburbank]

I'm not even sure that is Vinth. I could swear that was just a cut n' paste of a post of his from over a year ago. Vinth is too big of a pussy to show up now that all his arch conservative heroes are biting at each other like a pack of rabid dogs in a pit. He might have to weigh in on wether he sides with his uber hero Bush or his wet dream Coulter. Too big a pansy for that kind of action. Too much mouth, not enough spine. We've seen the last of the real Vinth.

[kellychaos]

I thought it was 3 Gods, 1 Female and 2 Male... :/

Old European Paganism is fun to look at because that's where modern Christianity gets most of it's seemingly senseless array of traditions and symbols. As for any non-entertainment oriented benefit to paganism, I guess, maybe... early work on the calendar?

Any reason that Old European Paganism couldn't have gotten it's traditions and symbols from Judeo-Christanity?

Your answer is in his statement. The fact that the pagan religions have but a few of the traditions each while Christianity has an array of them from different sources suggests, in all probability, that the latter borrowed from and is a culmination of the former.

[kahljorn]

From what I remember they did it to satisfy the pagans so they would be more inclined to stick with it/join.

Plus every religion has to have a day off. The world would go mad without it.

[Preechr]

Christmas trees, Easter Eggs, THE FREAKIN CROSS... C'mon, Vince ol' buddy... Christianity is all about the one, single message... the one thing you HAVE to know to get into heaven. In early Europe, when whomever the king was that day decided what your religion was, pagans were made to be believers.

"I'm sorry, ma'am, you have to be Christian now."

"Can I still put up a Christmas tree?"

"Umm, sure. Just think of Jesus when you do it."

"Ok."

Go to Africa. That's pretty much still the way missionary work is done. Whatever it takes.

Seriously. Go to Africa.

[Preechr]

Pre-emptive:

Yes, the cross. Haven't you ever wondered how it came about that the folks that love Jesus would adopt an icon of his horrible death as a symbol of his worship? True, it was used as a Christian symbol before European pagans added it (it was a part of their harvest celebrations... binding together wheat stalks from this years harvest in cross form and hanging it on the wall for next year,) but it was also a religious symbol long before Jesus was born and assimilated into Christian tradition later. Convenient.

Now, go and get on a plane for Africa.

[kahljorn]

A rendition of the ankh maybe, the ankh is a symbol of life and sometimes eternal life. :( That could be somewhat fitting...
There was some other stuff i read about the symbology of the cross and it's use in egypt and other ancient civilizations, but i can't remember exactly. Although one thing that i do recall is that in at least one culture the symbol of the cross actually meant somebody who would die and be reborn again.

[kellychaos]

it was simply a method of execution, people ... please w/e :rolleyes

[mburbank]

Preech, before you make Vinth to go to Africa it is only fair towarn him, the place is crawling with Negroes.


They don't call it the 'Dark' continent for nothing!

[AngPur]

Christianity is all about the one, single message... the one thing you HAVE to know to get into heaven.

Yes, but Christians, and the churches often deviate from that, not only in missionary work, but in their own accords. Christ didn't say anything about needing to conquer back the holy lands in a series of crusades. So although it may be very true that pure unadultered Christianity doesn't borrow from paganism, Christians and their associated traditions sure as hell do. (PUN!) :)

[kellychaos]

Preech, before you make Vinth to go to Africa it is only fair towarn him, the place is crawling with Negroes.


They don't call it the 'Dark' continent for nothing!

I almost hate you for making me laugh at this. :lol

[Immortal Goat]

I would like to formally apologize to Max for this thread. I realize that you were trying to draw out the troll under the bridge, and that since he only appears when the planets are in the proper allignment, I have foiled your plans of ever hearing his response to your thread.

If it is any consolation to you, the real victim here, I am already bitter at the age of 19 and my job sucks. There. Something to comfort you in the night, like a security blanket. I know it pales in comparison to seeing Vinth take sides, but I hope that my small contribution of bitterness can be of use to you.