Wag the dog

[Geggy]

A rather fascinating and shocking report which focus on the high possibility of the bush administration's involvement with the september 11th attacks. Over the years, I have collected many reports like this one but this one is the most convincing. Two years ago in the time the report was written, no one would've believe in it. I think people would have difficulties comprehending the fact that their own government are capable of performing such atrocity toward their own people. But now with all the hoopla going on with the bush administration being made public, what do you think...???

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4582.htm

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I HEARD ALL THE JEWS GOT OUT B/F THE PLANES HIT!2!!?

[Geggy]

Like i said, it's only a possibility, which is almost likely.

It's also possible the bush administration handled the september 11th event the same way they handled the katrina catastrophe...with neglience and idiocy.

but what really struck (no pun) me the most me was that they needed a pretext to start a war on terrorism which later lead to invasion in iraq, the country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Was 9/11 the first day the rest of our lives that the us government are attempting to spread world wide democracy to form one nation, one government in the new millennium?

and what does jews have to do with 9/11?

[ziggytrix]

9 out of 11 conspiracy theories involve Zionists.

[Dr. Boogie]

Is this going to be like the conspiracy theory that the US government allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor to motivate people to get behind WWII?

[AngPur]

Is this going to be like the conspiracy theory that the US government allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor to motivate people to get behind WWII?

Well, that worked out for the best, true or not. If FDR did that, it wouldn't exactly be a black mark for him.

[kellychaos]

Is this going to be like the conspiracy theory that the US government allowed the attack on Pearl Harbor to motivate people to get behind WWII?

I don't buy that theory specifically, but after seeing a documentary on the Hitler Channel, I do buy that FDR endorsed a foreign relations policy that ... erm, coerced is a strong word ... encouraged Japan into more quickly involving us into the war. Not that we wouldn't have been an eventual target.

[ItalianStereotype]

but what really struck (no pun) me the most me was that they needed a pretext to start a war on terrorism which later lead to invasion in iraq, the country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Was 9/11 the first day the rest of our lives that the us government are attempting to spread world wide democracy to form one nation, one government in the new millennium?

no, we needed a pretext for the war on terror because our society has become pacifistic to a fault and disgustingly complacent. we have riots and protests and people calling for the violent overthrow of our government over 2,000 casualties. looking back not even 100 years ago, I find British headlines lamenting the 500,000 casualty! complacency and decadence have brought down the most powerful nations in history, yet so many think that it won't happen to us or that the world will be better off without us. fucking lunacy.

[Spectre X]

Number thirteen has been proven wrong on several occasions. It was fairly well-known that the World Trade Center's steel girders were insufficiently protected against heat. Also, the inner collumns of the buildings would have been already collapsing before the top part finally gave way.

[AngPur]

no, we needed a pretext for the war on terror because our society has become pacifistic to a fault and disgustingly complacent.

Er, howso? America never really ceased being militarily involved in the world. Hell, we are the top arms supplier worldwide, easily. Throw on top of that a series of small conflicts since Vietnam (Grenada, Bosnia, Kosavo) and it's no so much we got complacent, we just realized Kennedy was right about the scale of arm conflict for us narrowing, focusing. Well, maybe that was premature to think so, but are you saying that the nation doesn't know what's good for itself? Er, that's very definitley not democracy there.

No point in fighting our enemies so vehemently as to become no better than they.

[Geggy]

Number thirteen has been proven wrong on several occasions. It was fairly well-known that the World Trade Center's steel girders were insufficiently protected against heat. Also, the inner collumns of the buildings would have been already collapsing before the top part finally gave way.

It's interesting you'd bring that up because the WTC collapsing was one of the most heavily debated topics of the 9/11 event. Only if the steel poles that supported both the WTC buildings were obtained from the rubble for analysis, they would have came to a conclusion as to why the buildings collapsed vertically and completely. The report which I linked in the first post did not mentioned the fact the engineer workers and scientists were obstructed by the FBI from entering the rubble of ground zero to perform investigation and to analyze the steel poles. The steel poles acts as the most important evidence yet they were treated as worthless garbage. They were picked from the rubble during the body search and dumped into trucks as it was brought to a certain spot in order to flush it into the toilet. Destroying an important piece of evidence is considered an act of crime. The availble source of evidences from the collapse are limited to the pictures and videos of the 9/11 events that was spread by the media.

Unfortunately, that's all the time I have for now...tbc...

[KevinTheOmnivore]

It's interesting you'd bring that up because the WTC collapsing was one of the most heavily debated topics of the 9/11 event. Only if the steel poles that supported both the WTC buildings were obtained from the rubble for analysis, they would have came to a conclusion as to why the buildings collapsed vertically and completely.

In which circles was this debate so intense? To my knowledge, the debate was clarified and resolved (as Spectre X already said).



The report which I linked in the first post did not mentioned the fact the engineer workers and scientists were obstructed by the FBI from entering the rubble of ground zero to perform investigation and to analyze the steel poles.

When? You mean like a week after it happened? Maybe you don't live near New York, but do you remember how long it took just to get the fires out, let alone stabilize the location so that anybody other that first responder-types could get on the scene?


The steel poles acts as the most important evidence yet they were treated as worthless garbage. They were picked from the rubble during the body search and dumped into trucks as it was brought to a certain spot in order to flush it into the toilet. Destroying an important piece of evidence is considered an act of crime. The availble source of evidences from the collapse are limited to the pictures and videos of the 9/11 events that was spread by the media.

Okay, wrong. Once again, do you recall hoe much of this rubble there actually was? A lot. They had to get it the hell out of there, because they were more concerned with MAYBE finding some survivors, or at least recovering remains.

A lot of the garbage, to my recollection, was dumped on boats and shipped to other places and countries for scrap.

[Spectre X]

...tbc...

Tuberculosis?

[AngPur]

It's interesting you'd bring that up because the WTC collapsing was one of the most heavily debated topics of the 9/11 event. Only if the steel poles that supported both the WTC buildings were obtained from the rubble for analysis, they would have came to a conclusion as to why the buildings collapsed vertically and completely.

In which circles was this debate so intense? To my knowledge, the debate was clarified and resolved (as Spectre X already said).

I would imagine it being rather intense in the circles of 15 year old anarchists who visit MoveOn.org.

[Geggy]

There were ongoing debates ragarding the the collapsing whether the detonators were planted for demolition before the attacks occured or the fuel inducing fires that produced intense heat upon the steel were the result to the collapse. The movement and timely manner of the collapsing of WTC had many engineers and architects perplexed. Didn't it strike you as odd that the building collasped straight down within under 15 seconds rather than crumbling piece by piece as result of melting steel grids like it's offically stated? It was rather interesting doing extensive research on building structures, I might as well enroll in school to earn degree in architect field or engineer even. :posh

The fact scraps were sold in othere parts of the world triggered outrage among famalies of the 9/11 victims. Even if the rubbles had to be removed from ground zero for body capacity search, why weren't they kept as evidence for research rather than pawning them off? The scraps weren't the only evidences that were tampered with...messages in black boxes, not pictures but videos of plane crashing into the pentagon, etc were never released to the public.

Yeah yeah sorry for being so interested in subject of the tradegy that killed 3000 pelope and lead to the war in iraq which so far resulted over 35000 death including the iraqi's and overr 60000 iraqi's being held in prison in what seems to be considered the halocaust part 2. Sorry for being so concerned on the families of lives lost in the tragedy and the war who may never receive credible answers and be able to live in peace. Only if investigation on 9/11 were more honest and taken seriosuly, the world wouldn't have been in such turmoil in results of ongoing deceptions and corruptions.

[Big Papa Goat]

i heard htat the zyklon the germans had in ww 2 couldn't have ever killed that many jews

[ItalianStereotype]

then you're most likely an idiot.

[Spectre X]

The thing is, Geggy, that the central columns collapsed. The planes pretty much cut them in half with the impact and the fire. They would have been able to stay up for a while, but eventually the inside would start to seriously collapse. The inside. Not the outside. The weight inside would start to pile up as floors colapsed onto each other, until the central columns would give away completely and just snap.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Yeah yeah sorry for being so interested in subject of the tradegy that killed 3000 pelope and lead to the war in iraq which so far resulted over 35000 death including the iraqi's and overr 60000 iraqi's being held in prison in what seems to be considered the halocaust part 2. Sorry for being so concerned on the families of lives lost in the tragedy and the war who may never receive credible answers and be able to live in peace.

Apology accepted.

[Ant10708]

Holocaust in iraq :lol

[El Blanco]

What holocaust? I don't see no Kurdish Blue.

[Geggy]

Apology accepted.

Wait a minute...are you a republican? A neoconservative? Do you masturbate to a picture of fully clothed Ann Coulter with her arms crossed? It all makes sense to me now.

Yeah yeah maybe I went a bit too far calling it the halocaust part 2 but abuse and lynching are considered an art form of torture viewed by the bush administration. 60000 prisoners are kept in US custody. It's just way too similiar to the first 2-3 years of concentration camp during the nazi regime.

I can see what you're saying, spectrex, but if that was the case, if the heat did cause the steel to melt, why didn't the steel bend or sag, which can cause the tower to tip and fall over, especially the south tower when the plane struck in a different angle rather than directly? How was it possible the bottom portion of steel supporting the tower to completely collapse? We should've seen at least 20 floors from ground up worth of steel bended and sagged after the collapsing. It takes an explosive device powerful enough to blast the steel into pieces. Most of the fuel were already up in flames and spewed out of the building as the planes struck the towers anyway. Judging from the size and color of the exploding fireballs, it didn't look like the plane was carrying kerosene fuel but some sort of other type of fuel or possibly the planes were carrying bombs.

Another interesting article I found in my bookmark regarding the psychosis of an alcoholic mind plus the widespread fear which the bush administration took advantage of...

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/POPD.html

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Do you masturbate to a picture of fully clothed Ann Coulter with her arms crossed? It all makes sense to me now.

:|

[Geggy]

Is that the best you can do?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Yes.

[El Blanco]

You think you're worth any better?

[Spectre X]

I can see what you're saying, spectrex, but if that was the case, if the heat did cause the steel to melt, why didn't the steel bend or sag, which can cause the tower to tip and fall over, especially the south tower when the plane struck in a different angle rather than directly? How was it possible the bottom portion of steel supporting the tower to completely collapse? We should've seen at least 20 floors from ground up worth of steel bended and sagged after the collapsing. It takes an explosive device powerful enough to blast the steel into pieces. Most of the fuel were already up in flames and spewed out of the building as the planes struck the towers anyway. Judging from the size and color of the exploding fireballs, it didn't look like the plane was carrying kerosene fuel but some sort of other type of fuel or possibly the planes were carrying bombs.

I dunno. I'm no scientist. I saw it on the Discovery Channel a couple of times. I should probably try to catch that special again sometime to explain better.

As far as I can remember it had to do with the way the floors were constructed. While the central column was very sturdy, the floors weren't. They were plates attached to the walls with trusses, covered in concrete. That's one of the reasons why the towers were built so quickly.

Anyway, the heat protection on these trusses, keeping the hundreds of tons of concrete and steel up, was weak, and if only one part of the truss were to fail, its integrity would be compromised immensely.

On the outside you wouldn't be able to see anything going on inside, which was filled with airplane fuel and other flammable materials. The trusses melt, fail and hundreds of tons of stuff comes crashing down. The walls fail because of the floor being gone and therefore not having anything to keep the outer walls from breaking. The weight is distributed unevenly and the central column fails because, even though it might have been able to support the weight of the top part normally, it can't survive the top part just kinda hitting it as most of it fails, and the towers fall.

[Big Papa Goat]

Wait a minute...are you a republican? A neoconservative? Do you masturbate to a picture of fully clothed Ann Coulter with her arms crossed? It all makes sense to me now.



So anyone who doesn't think the american government killed a few thousand of its own citizens to justify a conspiracy to commit a deliberate holocaust in the middle east is some kind of neoconservative crank or some such?

[Geggy]

bump!

its widely known ann coulter and the neocons have this desire to restrict the first amendment for everyone to STFU on the opposition of iraq war, 9/11 cover ups, etc....

spectre sorry for taking so long but i see your post, i raise you this post...

Definition of Squib (from wikipedia):

"A squib otherwise refered to as an electric match is a small explosive device which is used in pyrotechnics and display fireworks. A squib can range in size from a small cap only millimeters in diameter to larger, more spectacular ones which can be 1/2 inch or larger. In display fireworks, it is used to ignite the fuse of a commercial firework shell. The squib is generally connected to a "firing-rail" or "breakout box" which connects to a central firing board. Squibs are designed to be fired using a small current which can be supplied from sources such as a 9V battery or a Car Battery in larger setups. Squibs are also very sensitive to EM radiation and devices such as vehicles, radios, celluar phones, and even cellular and microwave transmitters can set off a squib unless the two leads are terminated correctly.

In pyrotechnics, squibs are used to produce a spark which would simulate gunshots, sparking/arcing electrical equipment and much more.

In aviation squibs are used to generate pressurised gas to open valves and operate small mechanical devices on such as ejection seats and to pierce metal diaphrams that are retaining pressurised liquids such as halon and fluorocarbon extinguishants or release compressed nitrogen gas to act as a propellant.

They are also widely used in the special effects industry to simulate a bullet hit by coupling the squib itself with a packet of either fake blood for hits on persons or dust/debris for hits on other objects.

Squibs were originally made from parchment tubes, or the shaft of a feather filled with fine black powder and sealed at the ends with wax. These were inserted into the touch holes of cannon and used to ignite the main propellant charge. Roger Bacon first described the making of squibs in 1248.

A "damp squib" is literally one that fails to go off due to wetting but the term has come into general use to mean anything that fails to meet expectations."


Squibs shooting out before the collapse in order to weaken the building structure...

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/911.wtc.1.fire.smoke.below.wmv

Source from http://science.howstuffworks.com/building-implosion1.htm ......

"Generally speaking, blasters will explode the major support columns on the lower floors first and then a few upper stories. In a 20-story building, for example, the blasters might blow the columns on the first and second floor, as well as the 12th and 15th floors. In most cases, blowing the support structures on the lower floors is sufficient for collapsing the building, but loading columns on upper floors helps break the building material into smaller pieces as it falls. This makes for easier clean-up following the blast."

-Smoke coming out of bottom of building...

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/wtc1_street_level_smoke.wmv

-the shake up before collapse...

( http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/videos/index.html )

click on: North Tower collapse from northeast mpeg
This 29-second video shows the top of the North Tower from the northeast, with the collapse staring about 16 seconds into the video.

-look at the right side of the building as several squibs shooting out of wtc as it collapse...

( http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/videos/index.html )

click on: North Tower collapse from distant northeast mpeg
This 8-second KTLA5 video shows the North Tower as it starts to collapse. It shows squibs and streamers ahead of the mushrooming top. See still frames from this video.

the collapsing of WTC7...

( http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/videos/index.html )

Building 7 collapse mpeg
This 9.6-second video shows the Building 7 collapse from a vantage point only about 1000 feet to the north.

EDIT: damn...i didnt realize the wbepage blocks video clips which are hotlinked in other websites...just go to the video index of the webpage and click on the descriptions above...

[El Blanco]

I also think you didn't realize that film really doesn't show a damn thing. A blurry, unfocused camera showing smoke coming out and you saying the proof is there. All you're missing is the shirtless guy leaning out the hole in the side.

Let me break some news to you and all your really need to get a life conspiracy buddies:

There are no aliens in Rosewell.

Oswald shot Kennedy.

al Queda is responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

[kahljorn]

"al Queda is responsible for the 9/11 attacks"

You don't know who's responsible for the attacks, and the fact that you assume so because someone else(I doubt it was someone with direct knowledge, too) told you or put that idea in your head is just as desperate and deranged as any conspiracy theororist. The doubt he has for 9/11 is reasonable, even if within your mind he is approaching it from an unreasonable angle, but his argument seems clear enough. Why do you even pretend to debate if you have no inclination on at least listening? At the very least he offered evidence, all you offer is rhetoric that's not even yours.

[ziggytrix]

a better retort in my mind is "who is responsible for al queda"?

i could easily conceive that someone was pulling OSB's strings, even without OSB fully knowing it. global politics is very backstabby like that.

[El Blanco]

That someone else? Ya, those are professional criminal investigators, engineers, explosives experts, and construction professionals.

All the investigators that were at the scene examining evidence from the rubble. You know, the guys that made the legally binding sworn affidavids? People who are too low on the totem poll to have anything real to gain by partaking i na cover up.

The engineering experts that have gone on public record saying that the official story is the most likely.

My own family members that were there when the Towers went up and came down. My dad and uncle that were part of the construction crew that have always known that the skeleton wasn't reinforced like it was meant to be (the difference between what is designed and what is built is huge) and my brother on the FDNY who was there evacuating people and has no idea about any reports of explosions that could only be demo charges.

I must be unreasonable because I'll take the word of professionals with education and experience that adds up to centuries over some fuzzy video THAT DOESN'T SHOW A GODDAMNED THING!

I won't refute his "evidence" (loose defenition of the word you have there) because it isn't there.

Doubt and skepticism are human and healthy. I have no problem with them. Civilization advances when authority is questioned.

But this isn't a reasonable argument anymore. Its a desperate cry for attention by being contradictory.

We all saw the video of the planes hitting the Towers. I've got the word of experts on the matter.

You two have fuzzy videos and no fucking clue what "reasonable" means.

[Geggy]

I also think you didn't realize that film really doesn't show a damn thing. A blurry, unfocused camera showing smoke coming out and you saying the proof is there. All you're missing is the shirtless guy leaning out the hole in the side.

the video showing smoke coming out of bottom of the building is the zoomed version...the untouched version is here...

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/911.wtc.1.demolition.nj.1.wmv

i've tried linking several videos from a 911research website but it wouldnt allow hot linking so you would have to go there for yourself to view the clips...

http://www.911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/videos/index.html

Let me break some news to you and all your really need to get a life conspiracy buddies:

There are no aliens in Rosewell.

Oswald shot Kennedy.

al Queda is responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

There are no aliens in rosewell? Are the pigs fed, watered and ready to fly? Who cares? As much as I don't care that elvis is alive, bigfoot exists and we landed on the moon...

Oswald shot kennedy, maybe...but who did he work for? Lyndon johnson? Castro? Or was he just loner who resided in a looney bin? I guess we'll never know, afterall he was shot before he could testify.

My point is that I try to steer clear from loony grand conspiracies with no credible evidence or facts. In the past few months I've been monitoring closely to updates on 9/11 and believe me, there are a lot of ridiculous conspiracy theories out there...like the no plane theory in NY that morning, the pod on the second plane that hit wtc, the missing names on passenger lists, etc.

Yes, many of us saw the plane hitting WTC. We saw that people inside the WTC were still alive and well enough to stand close to the holes for some fresh air without being vaporized due to the intense heat. We saw that the Bush administartion were able to name Osama Bin Laden as the primrary suspect in the same day when they've claimed they had no prior knowledge of the operation being planned. We saw that the Pentagon was hit by a plane an HOUR after the first plane hit in NY without any deployment of fighter jets to protect Washington DC. Those ARE the conspiracies that I'm most interested in.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

"al Queda is responsible for the 9/11 attacks"

You don't know who's responsible for the attacks, and the fact that you assume so because someone else(I doubt it was someone with direct knowledge, too) told you or put that idea in your head is just as desperate and deranged as any conspiracy theororist.

Have Osama Bin Laden or Al Qaeda ever denied responsibility for the attack? Sure, they could just lie and take credit for it, but you can't compare the veracity of the two arguments as equally "deranged."

I don't think Geggy is deranged, but if expert after expert says Al Qaeda did it, and if most people you meet say Al Qaeda did it, and if Al Qaeda says Al Qaeda did it (!), then wouldn't that weigh heavily against Geggy's argument???


The doubt he has for 9/11 is reasonable, even if within your mind he is approaching it from an unreasonable angle, but his argument seems clear enough. Why do you even pretend to debate if you have no inclination on at least listening? At the very least he offered evidence, all you offer is rhetoric that's not even yours.

He offered links to websites such as "whatreallyhappened.com." the other, 911 research, is run by four people, I think two of them with degrees in the subject, one of them an architect, if my memory serves me correctly. Their arguments again aren't necessarily crazy, but if I put one architect in the room who says one thing, and stack up 10 others against him that say another, which argument shall we believe?

[kahljorn]

Yes, well somehow my retarded post got him to post his "insider knowledge" that before hand he hadn't shared(that I saw). I thought the Towers were reinforced to allow it to withstand alot of pressure? Now it wasn't? What's true? I hear different stories from different people different days, and alot of them are so-called experts.


"then wouldn't that weigh heavily against Geggy's argument??? "

No. That's the nature of "Conspiracy theories", nothing really weighs against them because they are conspiracy theories and everything surrounding it is a lie. Duh.


"Their arguments again aren't necessarily crazy, but if I put one architect in the room who says one thing, and stack up 10 others against him that say another, which argument shall we believe?"

I don't know, I don't generally believe things because everyone else believes in them. But you're welcome to, while we're at it why don't we travel back in time to nazi germany. Alot of people believed killing lots of jews was Okay, so it must be okay and also true. Sanctioned by God.


"All the investigators that were at the scene examining evidence from the rubble. You know, the guys that made the legally binding sworn affidavids?"

Didn't they haul away most of the rubble before many people could get a look at it or examine it for chemicals? I thought that was one of the big conspiracy deals. Only a few people actually got to examine it, and only certain parts.


"My dad and uncle that were part of the construction crew that have always known that the skeleton wasn't reinforced like it was meant to be"

Glad to hear your father and uncle, as part of the "Construction crew" knew more than the engineers and architects(the type of people who make sworn affidavids and are professionals with education and experience) who designed it to withstand such pressure? It really gives me faith in the working man. Derp.

"People who are too low on the totem poll to have anything real to gain by partaking i na cover up. "

People who are low on the totem poll have more to gain by covering up than people high on a totem poll. It's called POOR PEOPLE NEED MONEY. Not that I'm saying that actually happened, just pointing out the blatantly obvious.


"who was there evacuating people and has no idea about any reports of explosions that could only be demo charges. "

No reports? They had no reports of explosions? What the fuck, shouldn't they have been able to hear them or something? Oh wait the building was fucking collapsing(I'm sure that created alot of noise), people were panicing(and dying) and I'm sure people didn't have time to sit down at their desk and write a story about the various explosions taking place. Jackass. Thanks for offering yet more stunning evidence.

"Its a desperate cry for attention by being contradictory"

How is he crying for attention, you moron. He's acting alot less childish than you are.

"We all saw the video of the planes hitting the Towers."

Thank God this proves everything wrong not like that's part of the conspiracy or anything. His entire theory is based on the idea that the planes never hit the tower.

"I've got the word of experts on the matter."

Nothing like a couple of poorly educated construction crew workers telling you what they know about engineering. Eh? ;)

Well all of this clearly shows that Geggy is wrong so I will remove myself from this argument. Geggy, the evidence they have offered clearly shows exactly how wrong you are about everything and I suggest you consider analyzing your life cause you know you're wasting it by being so focused on this conspiracy theory man, live a little have a martini maybe goto the beach and get some women. There's lots to see out there, the world is waiting for you ;)

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I hear different stories from different people different days, and alot of them are so-called experts.

On average, how many architects do you believe hold the views of the one on this website?

There's also two different debates going on here. One is about how and why the towers fell. The other is what assumptions that may lead you to. There's debate on an architectual and engineering level, but how does this substantiate a "wag the dog" theory? I think Geggy is taking the liberty to connect some dots that are not there.


I don't know, I don't generally believe things because everyone else believes in them. But you're welcome to, while we're at it why don't we travel back in time to nazi germany. Alot of people believed killing lots of jews was Okay, so it must be okay and also true. Sanctioned by God.

Stop being such a drama queen. I didn't say that you should believe it just because a lot of people believe it, I'm saying no respectable engineer or architect is coming out making the nefarious links between Bush and the attacks that these few folks are.


Well all of this clearly shows that Geggy is wrong so I will remove myself from this argument. Geggy, the evidence they have offered clearly shows exactly how wrong you are about everything and I suggest you consider analyzing your life cause you know you're wasting it by being so focused on this conspiracy theory man, live a little have a martini maybe goto the beach and get some women. There's lots to see out there, the world is waiting for you ;)

I think Geggy was doing just fine. I'll take a conspiracy theorist over a douche bag any day of the week.

[kahljorn]

"On average, how many architects do you believe hold the views of the one on this website?"

I don't know. At least one, apparantly. I'm sure any other experts who could have weighed in were the ones who wanted access to the rubble and such but were denied. How many architects and engineers do you think actually had access to the evidence?
Obviously nobody taking part in this argument has any real knowledge, anyway.


"I think Geggy was doing just fine. I'll take a conspiracy theorist over a douche bag any day of the week."

Me too, I was being sarcastic.


"Stop being such a drama queen."

I was going more for the comedy route, but I guess I'm not too good with genres.

[Abcdxxxx]

I don't know, I don't generally believe things because everyone else believes in them. But you're welcome to, while we're at it why don't we travel back in time to nazi germany. Alot of people believed killing lots of jews was Okay, so it must be okay and also true. Sanctioned by God.

Ironically, you're defending a theory which claims the innocence of a group like Al Qaeda which has targeted Jews, all while championing Hitler as a hero. Add to this direct links between Muslim SS organizations employed by the Germans, and the Muslim Brotherhood/Egyptian Jihad... and Geggy's link to an anti-semitic site as a resource.... and I'd say you're pretty out of line.

How about the myth that we don't know who Al Qaeda are? They've told us who they are, and their core members have very clear wrap sheets. There is a clear money trail. As an organized body, we know that Islamic fundamentalists exist, and Al Qaeda is simply the unification umbrella of all the groups which splintered off the Muslim Brotherhood, which has existed since 1928 (and earlier under different incarnations). Can you disprove this ?

[ziggytrix]

Ironically, you're defending a theory which claims the innocence of a group like Al Qaeda which has targeted Jews, all while championing Hitler as a hero.

Ironically, you're failing to recognize intentional irony!


I do enjoy your Muslim conspiracy rhetoric though. It has that nice ring of "I believe someone is actually in control" which is actually the least realistic part of any conspiracy theory!

[El Blanco]

Glad to hear your father and uncle, as part of the "Construction crew" knew more than the engineers and architects(the type of people who make sworn affidavids and are professionals with education and experience) who designed it to withstand such pressure? It really gives me faith in the working man. Derp.

OK, why not work on that reading comprehension thing? It would help.

There is no doubt they were designed to withstand pressure. Hell, they took one explosion already (1993). However, its a long journey from design to build. Work orders get changed. Cheaper materials get purchased. "We are behind schedule and over budget, which tasks aren't neccassery for the opening of the Towers?"

WTC is not alone here. Ask anyone in the bussiness. Hell, ask anyone who has had a house built.

People who are low on the totem poll have more to gain by covering up than people high on a totem poll. It's called POOR PEOPLE NEED MONEY. Not that I'm saying that actually happened, just pointing out the blatantly obvious.

Thats a shit load of money to be passing around. Not really what a bunch of money grubbing, power mad, illuminati members would be doing.

No reports? They had no reports of explosions? What the fuck, shouldn't they have been able to hear them or something? Oh wait the building was fucking collapsing(I'm sure that created alot of noise), people were panicing(and dying) and I'm sure people didn't have time to sit down at their desk and write a story about the various explosions taking place. Jackass. Thanks for offering yet more stunning evidence.

Thats one of the bits of "evidence" I've been told of. Secret reports of people saying they heard demolitions explosions while they were evacuating. Yes, I know how retarded the whole argument is.

How is he crying for attention, you moron. He's acting alot less childish than you are.

Posting some half baked attempt at evidence sp people will look at him.

Thank God this proves everything wrong not like that's part of the conspiracy or anything. His entire theory is based on the idea that the planes never hit the tower.

Nop, he needs us to ignore the 7272 and 747 slamming into the Towers in order to believe that demo charges brought them down.

Nothing like a couple of poorly educated construction crew workers telling you what they know about engineering. Eh? ;)

And engineers, architects, investigators.......

Well all of this clearly shows that Geggy is wrong so I will remove myself from this argument.

Oh please, don't do us any favors.

[kahljorn]

"Cheaper materials get purchased. "We are behind schedule and over budget, which tasks aren't neccassery for the opening of the Towers?" "

I'm completely aware of all of this(we have plenty of examples for this in new orleans). All the same, it doesn't explain how it fell right on top of itself. I was mostly mentioning this because that's what the "Experts" say. Remember how we were having expert quotation time?

"Thats a shit load of money to be passing around. Not really what a bunch of money grubbing, power mad, illuminati members would be doing. "

You're the one who assumed poor people couldn't be bought. I think it's easier to buy a poor person than a rich person, you give a poor person 500 bucks and they'll be happy. I don't know why you instantly assume they must've bought off every person within New York City, though. Maybe you think they are all on the same psychic wavelength?

"Secret reports of people saying they heard demolitions explosions while they were evacuating."

Are you arguing with me or you? You're the one who said there was no reports, I don't really care regardless. I was just tired of your boring argument with shallow knowledge. What's with people on this message board and trying to trick people with what little they know? CELLS PROVE THE TOWER FELL.

"Posting some half baked attempt at evidence sp people will look at him."

Like you don't want people looking at you by responding, fuckface, or posting on a message board.

"he needs us to ignore the 7272 and 747 slamming into the Towers in order to believe that demo charges brought them down. "

I don't think he ignores them, I think that's an integral part of the conspiracy.

"And engineers, architects, investigators"

Which investigators are those? The one's who weren't allowed to investigate the debris? Obviously they have ALOT of say in the matter.

"Oh please, don't do us any favors."

Happy birthday!

P.S. Personally I don't lean towards any side of this argument. Even if it was a conspiracy, I doubt it could ever be proven. I do think there's alot about it that's suspiscous, though, and certainly warrants some negative feelings. Like why didn't they allow a free investigation? That makes no sense. If anything, they should let everyone have a piece of the action, then there can be no doubt.

[ziggytrix]

this thread needs some preechr. with his systematic doubting of all "authority" he could come up with some good material.

[kahljorn]

Yea, he could like write a thesis on how construction workers predicted this day would come in ancient egypt and like how they were like totally his long forgotten ancestors which gives him the power to rule the world by the power of irreducible complexity!

IF YOU TAKE OUT MY ANCESTORS NONE OF THE WORLD WOULD'VE EXISTED AND THE PYRAMIDS WOULD BE MISSING LIKE THREE STONES OR SOMETHING THEN IT WOULD FALL ON TOP OF ITSELF DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD DO TO THE WORLD ECONOMY IT WOULD TOTALLY FUCK IT UP AND THEY'D HAVE TO COVER IT UP WITH A WAR AND THEN LIKE MAKE IT SEEM LIKE NOTHING HAPPENED SO PEOPLE DON'T THINK THEY ARE WEAK AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEM AND THROW FROGS AT THEIR BOILING SKIN CAUSE THEY ALREADY LIVE WITHIN THE REALMS OF HELL AND PEOPLE WOULD BLAME THE PHAROH BUT ALL ALONG HE WAS A GOOD GUY BECAUSE HE WAS TAKING RESPONSIBILITY BY ACTING LIKE A MORON BUT REALLY HE WAS JUST PROTECTING HIS COUNTRY HAHA JUST KIDDING HE WAS ALSO WATCHING HIS OWN ASS THATS WHY THE DUNG THEY USED TO POWER THEIR LANTERN MOBILES RAISED 2 GOLD FOR A SMILLION POUNDS THATS ALL WHAT A GREAT GUY DID YOU KNOW EGYPTIAN PHAROHS OFTEN STOOD 20 FEET TALL BECAUSE THEY WERE DIVINE HUMAN BEINGS LIKE METATRON AND THOSE GIGANTIC HEADS THEY HAVE THAT LOOK LIKE HAMMERS WERE ACTUALLY REAL THEY JUST HAD GIGANTIC BRAINS ITS ALL TRUE HAIL TO THE CONSTRUCTORS.

I want to be the first to thank you, Preechr, without your great ancestors THE CONSTRUCTORS the world today probably wouldn't even exist! They have brought the light to my eyes!

[Abcdxxxx]

Ironically, you're defending a theory which claims the innocence of a group like Al Qaeda which has targeted Jews, all while championing Hitler as a hero.

Ironically, you're failing to recognize intentional irony!


I do enjoy your Muslim conspiracy rhetoric though. It has that nice ring of "I believe someone is actually in control" which is actually the least realistic part of any conspiracy theory!


Intentional?
I think you're giving more credit then he deserves.
I haven't said anything conspiratory, nor have I actually attributed control to any of these groups. I can't say for sure who is the mastermnd if there is one, I just know who the fuck Al Qaeda is, while you want to pretend it's still up for question.

[kahljorn]

Who's al qaeda? is that like farmer john sausage or something?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

At least prior to the invasion of Afghanistan, Al Qaeda was quite certainly a very real, even a very bureaucratic organization. There were records found of organizational process forms, like release forms foe use of cars and materials found after the invasion.

They were not something dreamed up by George Bush. Just incase that actually needs to be said in a serious conversation on this topic....

[Geggy]

I think the webmaster of whatreallyhappened.com has already made it clear that he's not anti-jewish but an anti-israel. Big difference. Thr reason for that is because the US has been giving israel 9 billion dollars a year when they should've used the money on poverty in the US. If you want anti-semite, go to www.halturnershow.com. I swear that guy is hitler's ghost.

All I'm saying si that if the WTC buildings were indeedy imploded, which it looks a lot like it to me, then why was the cover up neccessary? Maybe they thought if they told everyone the buildings were imploded, it would raise suspicions that it was an inside job? I think we all know it'd be impossible for anyone in the al qaeda group to bypass security and set up detonators inside the buildings, which takes months to do. Or were they were trying to explain and make it look like the buildings fell due to the impact of planes flown by hijackers in order to help the owner of WTC to claim 3 billion something dollars in insurance? Did they purposedly pull WTC7, where the headquarter offices of CIA, FBI and FEMA were located, to get rid of evidences? Did they want someone inside WTC dead (if you're interested in this subject, read The Man Who Knew, the story of former FBI John ONeill)?

I've read the 9/11 commision report and played "connect the dots" in the book. All I got was a picture of a bull shitting on the doorstep in front of your house. And I've played "connect the dots" with the evidences provided in the internet, books, movies, along with known facts, witness statements, etc, and I've come to a picture what looks like dick cheney taking a shit in a sandbox in the backyard of your house, while you're sitting on your EZ chair, eating big, fat, juicy steak, drinking american beer and watching a baseball game on your 42 inch plasma LCD flatscreen HDTV.

Blanco, I read the post that your family members claimed there was no explosion before the collapse. Now I'm going to contradict myself a little here(hey I'm only human)...I was watching the 9/11 documentary filmed by 2 french brothers (and ironically narrated by robert deniro who starred in "wag the dog") a while ago. It showed the first tower collapsing (in slow motion!) and squibs shooting out were clearly visible, no question. But then when it got to the second tower collapsing part, one of the french brothers filiming who was inside the buidling was walking away from the tower. When he was about several feet away, the tower started collapsing and he started running. It didn't show the shockwaves or smoke coming out of the bottom of the building prior to the collapse. It seemed odd because I've seen several video clips on the internet showing smokes. I thought, with the technology they have now, images could be easily manipulated by using photoshop or CGI programs. I have no doubt the documentary was carefully edited. I have no doubts images everywhere have been manipulated. But the question is what am I supposed to believe?

[kahljorn]

"They were not something dreamed up by George Bush. Just incase that actually needs to be said in a serious conversation on this topic."

I don't think you do. By the way, has anyone ever read the biography on Osama? Did you know he likes to wear 80's boots? I guess he loves bright pink boots. I tried to find a picture but it kept bringing up porno ;(

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I actually have read a biography on Osama, and he was quite the ladies man.

[kahljorn]

Yea, well, over there all you really have to do is be part of a prestigous family to be a ladies man, and I'm pretty sure he qualifies for that position ;)

Seriously, though, the pink boots thing kills me for some reason. I want a picture of him stomping on president bushs face wearing sequin pink boots, possibly with a heel that he jams into his eye socket.

[Geggy]

What the fuuuuck, man

I think al qaeda is real but I also believe the bush administration has created numorous myths surrounding bin laden and al qaeda.

I dare you to google "who created al qaeda"

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I dare not to care. I've read up on the subject, and i don't need to search out one weird source that might dispute the facts.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

okay, so I figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt and do as you had suggested. Here was my first hit:

"Al Zarqawi myth -
... is nothing but a myth created by the United States. Al Zarqawi’s myth was born on
... Napoleoni stated that the myth of Al Zarqawi helped Al Qaeda's ...
www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10090 - 28k - Cached - Similar pages"

[ziggytrix]

I think trying to say there is no terroist leader named Zarqawi is absolutely ludicrous.

Question the man's motives, who he answers to, who he owes favors, etc, but you don't just "invent" a terrorist leader and fool the world. Espionage agencies may not be all that Hollywood would have us believe, but you can be damn sure some government would have stepped up and said "we have no records of this person's existence" when the US government said he was the head of the insurgency in Iraq.

PS - the first google result for "who created al qaeda" is a page full of people who don't really know anything arguing like they each hold God's own Truth in their hands. What are we supposed to take from that?

[Geggy]

I used to browse aljareeza.com and came to a conclusion that page is full of shit. Nothing but filled with saddam hussein praisings and run by a group of middle eastern propagandists to push the middle east into loathing the entire US population.

Anyhoo...I was hoping it would lead you to this page...

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=227

If you want to question the authenticity of the website, try browsing it. That's what I usually do.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Who would even dream of questioning the authenticity of "theinsider.org"???

I can't say looking at what appears to be a glorified blog really tells me anything. For example, the argument that we trained jihadists in Afghanistan is pretty well known, but it also tends to get misrepresented. We did invest a lot of money in Afghanistan, and yes, it was pretty stupid, and yes, we did cut and run. But the reason folks like Bin Laden actually got to create lists and coordinate the creation of early Al Qaeda that way was actually due to the hands-off nature we took in the training. We wanted "their" people to train "their" soldiers, so we sort of turned a blind eye while guys like Bin Laden recruited and trained religious zealots.

one of many good books on the subject was written by Yossef Bodansky, "Bin Laden: the man who declared war on America." it may have been written prior to 9/11 actually. Bodansky was one of the few weirdos you could call an expert on Bin Laden and terrorism before 9/11.

And my response to this argument would be so what? Do we stick our collective heads in the ground and accept the fact that this organization that we sort of kind of had a role in organizing is killing innocent people and wants to destroy the West? Does that sound rational?

[kahljorn]

I don't find it particularly surprising that any single person may have decided to wage war on america after having received money from them. It's called "Betrayal" or any number of other dramatic literary cliches that fuel human behavior. So they accepted money to fight our mutual enemy at the time, Russia. Okay. Then they turned their guns on us, that happens in all kinds of fantasy novels and hollywood movies.
In a sense america did that to britain, what's the surprise. Are we jihadists now, terrorists? It's just the nature of society that people take gifts to empower themselves. It doesn't necessarily mean britain gave us money so we would destroy their armies and become an independent nation that's more powerful than they are.

[Geggy]

I dont think i agree with you that osama has turned against the US. The US bought and owns bin Laden so they can pretty much portray him as evil and anti-US for the benefit of US. Speaking of hollywood, here's a perfect example...

this is osama bin laden...
http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/images/obl/sm/obl4.jpg

this is someone else, some fat fuck, portraying as bin laden in the 9/11 confession video (i still have the boston herald with the picture of that video on front page and it is the exact same picture of the same person...)
http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/images/obl/sm/obl1.jpg

notice the distance between the eye and the nostril of their noses...

this isnt anything conspiracy theory...it is very obvious...now ask yourself...why would they do something like this???

[kahljorn]

Why would they, geggy? I'd really like to hear this part of it.

What benefits have they gained?

[ziggytrix]

I sincerely believe they would make a better imposter than that. I question the actual source of those two images.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Is it entirely out of the question that Bin Laden himself used a double in the video, in order to portray an image of health and confidence (he is, after all, a sick man)?

I dont think i agree with you that osama has turned against the US. The US bought and owns bin Laden so they can pretty much portray him as evil and anti-US for the benefit of US. Speaking of hollywood

OK. :rolleyes

[Geggy]

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/173/3313/1024/George-Bush.jpg
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care."

AND WHY DOESN'T HE CARE???

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12198590&method=full&siteid=50143[/img]

[Big Papa Goat]

If you watch the hidden video of WTC attacks, you'll notice that the planes weren't actually going to crash into the towers, but were actually shot down by what appears to be a missle launched from the grassy knoll behind the statue of liberty, which caused the planes to change their trajectories in mid air going back and to the left, and striking the towers.

[Ant10708]

I heard the towers never even really fell.

[Ant10708]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4393358.stm

Robert Frisk has interviewed bin laden 3 times. He doesn't think he is an actor but I guess that's just because Bin laden took time off from fighting the soviet union to take some acting classes and has become that good.

[Geggy]

:rolleyes

Notice this is reuters, the mainstream media...looks like they've finally found some balls to report this...

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States told Saudi Arabia more than three years before the September 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden might be targeting civilian airplanes, according to a newly declassified State Department cable.

http://go.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=10542889&src=ActiveBuddy

[KevinTheOmnivore]

That clearly proves that Bush is really Osama Bin Laden.

Eject, Geggy, eject!

[Abcdxxxx]

Our Government couldn't figure out what to do with trucks full of bagged ice.... what makes you think they're capable of orchestrating a wag the dog scenario?

Most of the sites claiming Al Qaeda are fiction...or aliens?! Gasp!.... also make claims like "the Zarqawi beheading video is fake because Muslims don't have white skin". Maybe these terrorist folks seem like they popped out of a box to you, but you should question your ignorance instead of the reality of their existance.

[ziggytrix]

Our Government couldn't figure out what to do with trucks full of bagged ice.... what makes you think they're capable of orchestrating a wag the dog scenario?

Obviously it would have to be contracted out to the private sector. I mean, this IS a Republican administration we're accusing of conspiracy, here.

[Abcdxxxx]

Oh yeah, I forgot how efficient we get when we subcontract.

[ziggytrix]

oh shit, i forgot to use my [sarcasm] tags again

[Abcdxxxx]

Oh shit, I forgot that answering sarcasm with more sarcasm is a bit advanced for some of you.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Oh shit!

[MetalMilitia]

Someone's been watching loose change 9/11 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194&q=loose+change)

I thought it was pretty good.

[kahljorn]

I watched bits and pieces, it's not bad at all. It actually almost made me believe it was all a sham, sad when there's so much misinformation you can be swayed by a movie.

[Geggy]

Osama bin Laden has denied many times that he carried the attacks then out came the fake osama video...think about it, damn you!!!

Bush administration kept the americans oblivious of osama's death so they can continue with the war on terror. read all about ti in my blog!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Osama bin Laden has denied many times that he carried the attacks

Source, plz.

[Geggy]

Yeah yeah anyone with a brain knows the bush administration was complicit in the attacks. Ever even try to entertain the thought of it?

Lookit, Bush has tried to kill the spy report held by the new york time for a year and then when it blew open to the public, he turned out to be guilty of it. He tried to obstruct the investigation on 9/11 for god knows how long until the 9/11 commision report came out in '04. Ever since there has been growing numbers of top political advisors, economists, etc who have expressed grave doubts on the 9/11 commision report...

Where's your argument, plz?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'm worried about you, Geggy.

Source, plz.

[Geggy]

Hey thanks for caring!

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Ahh, I see. And when he came out and accepted blame, you are proposing that it was in fact a double put out by Israel and the U.S.?

Just wanted to catch up.

[kahljorn]

Well, in all honesty that's not the most unfeasible thing, kev. THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL, UNITED, STANDING FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE; TOGETHER. TO MAKE THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE BY THE POWER OF THEIR HOMOSEXUAL EROTICITY. HAIL EROTICITY.

[ziggytrix]

:lol

[kahljorn]

:) Implications of happiness :)

[Geggy]

:lol That was hilarious, kahl...

Ahh, I see. And when he came out and accepted blame, you are proposing that it was in fact a double put out by Israel and the U.S.?

Just wanted to catch up.

It is most likely. It wouldnt make sense if the talibans used an osama double in order to display osama's guilt for carrying the attacks. That would be suicidal because the talibans know their militrary power pales in comparsion with the US's military power.

To be honest I don't have much of a clue for Israel's involvement with the attack. Even if they were involved, they've done a heckuva job covering their tracks. I plan to do a little bit of a research on Israel's possible involvement.

But I am already aware of the Israel's massive spy ring in the US. They run a company called APEC which controls communication in most parts of the US.

Around 4000 jewish people worked in the WTC at the time of the attacks and all of them had received warnings through email and instant messenger 2 hours or more prior the attacks. Number of jewish in New York killed during the attack? ZERO. Although 5 of them on the plane that crashed into both buildings were jewish.

The FBI did arrest over hundreds of Mossad Agents weeks after 9/11. Most of them failed the lie dectector test during the questioning whether if they were involved with the planning or not. And what's fucked up was that The US government had freed them and send them back to Israel.

That's basically what I know so far but I plan to dig deeper on the the info...

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'll give you a chance now to delete this post before abcdxxxx sees it. :(

[Big Papa Goat]

eventually, every conspiracy theory is about the jews

[kahljorn]

"Around 4000 jewish people worked in the WTC at the time of the attacks and all of them had received warnings through email and instant messenger 2 hours or more prior the attacks."

How do you know that? source? (i hate asking for sources because it makes me feel pretentious, but come come)

[ziggytrix]

yeah, and not ONE of those 4000 people felt the least bit of compassion for his coworkers and thought to alert them to the danger. probably because jews are actually a reptillian off-shoot of humans and don't have feelings. :rolleyes

[kahljorn]

I've heard that half of the jewish population(probably more by now) are actually jews who traveled back from the future to the atlantean times to fill one of the sephiroth for their crazy failed experiment. The trick to it though is that the future jews were horrible failures and had to travel back because God hated them so much, but loved them enough to give them another chance. Also their were aliens from mars(it was destroyed of course though that's why there's no one there now) and they are our kings queens and presidents.

True story.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

"Around 4000 jewish people worked in the WTC at the time of the attacks and all of them had received warnings through email and instant messenger 2 hours or more prior the attacks."

How do you know that? source? (i hate asking for sources because it makes me feel pretentious, but come come)

agreed...that sounds too "X-files" to me....source please.

[ziggytrix]

I don't care if the source is God himself. I don't buy that 4000 people could keep a secret of that magnitude without even one of them saying something to a coworker they would like to see survive the attack. It's absurd.

[kahljorn]

It's the best kept jewish secret since potato pancakes.

[ziggytrix]

Who doesn't know about potato pancakes!?

[kahljorn]

I meant 40 years or so ago before the russians foiled their pancake secrets in the fernando poo incident. I guess they needed some new secret to replace them, hence the Potato pancake intelligence agency. Geez don't you read any history.

[Abcdxxxx]

WTC. Not a Single Jew effected. Not even a Cantor or a Fitzgerald.

The spy ring? It's not electronics, it's a Moving company.

...And Geggy.... if one day you should wake up to find your house without furnishings... you might not want to post about it on the internet. We're everywhere and when we pull on our curly sideburns it rings a bell of a tone only audible to Jews....and we have our own special morse code, that's foriegn to even Madonna. Be afraid, be very afraid.

[Geggy]

Still not feeling paranoid. Nice try though.

Kevin's avatar makes me :( Steinbrenner will demand Damon to cut his hair short, hence reducing his game skill by 40 percent. Just watch.

http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/nsforum/ns9-29.html

This is the best source I could find. I apologize, I got my fact wrong. One jewish person was killed in 9/11 attacks in nyc and d.c., not zero. Four were inside the plane. Just astonishing, considering that nyc is the capitol of jeiwsh population.

Don't forget that none of the israelis were killed in the recent triple hotel bombings in jordan.

As ironic as it seems, there are many israelis who are involved with the 9/11 truth movement. Many of them are considered the disinformationalists of the movement, spreading lies and conspiracy theories on the 9/11 attacks to make the rest of us with hard evidences and facts look like idiots. Very clever of them.

[El Blanco]

Don't forget that none of the israelis were killed in the recent triple hotel bombings in jordan.

Well, when you realize just how unfriendly Jordan can be towards Jews, I'd say you'd be hard pressed to a lot of them anywhere in the country.

As ironic as it seems, there are many israelis who are involved with the 9/11 truth movement. Many of them are considered the disinformationalists of the movement, spreading lies and conspiracy theories on the 9/11 attacks to make the rest of us with hard evidences and facts look like idiots. Very clever of them.

Lets be honest, they don't have to work very hard.

[Abcdxxxx]

So this is the best source you could find huh?

"The Church of True Israel:

Welcome Aryan Men and Women to the web site created by and for our race. It is not our intention to offend anyone, so if you are not white, or if you are offended by white men and women with racial pride, then you should leave. If you are white and not offended by your racial kinsmen, come on in."

Hey geggy... On behalf of the 400-500 Jewish families who lost their loved ones, who accounted for 15% of the fucking entire total death toll....I'd like to say you're a FILTHY MORON.

Read here:
http://slate.msn.com/id/116813
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm

Not as credible as a white power site? Then fine, read the victims list and pick out the Jewish names yourself:

http://www.9-11heroes.us/victims-world-trade-center.php

Oh, and mister "hard facts and information" would it be clever of me to let you know that the lack of Israeli deaths in Jordan might have something to do with Jordan's blacklisting of Jewish citizens? Some Israelis (mainly ARAB Israelis) do vacation in neighboring Arab nations which is why these resort hotels have been targeted. In other instances, Jews have died. Jordan had the Israelis removed AFTER the bombings and provided a confession from an Iraqi woman with a suicide belt on live television so assmunches like you wouldn't let your Jew hating imaginations run wild.

Geggy, you should move to Iran.

[Geggy]

Oh shit. I didn't realize it was an aryan site. I was broguht straight to the article by google and didn't give myself a chance to evaluate the site. I apologize for the big, gay misunderstanding.. If you think about it, it's kind of comical. You're jumping to conclusions and accusing me for being anti-semite simply because I stated that a certain group of people who happens to be israelis are involved in the spy ring, tricking the US into fighting the Iraq War for them and possibly carrying out the 9/11 attacks. Then I post an article from an aryan site which I wasn't even aware of as the source, yet it has made me look more like a nazi. Hilarious.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against jewish people. I even slept at a jewish family's house for a weekend in pennsylvania coupla years ago and with me being a catholic, I had accidently broken several rules of the conversative jews' house policies. Now you see that my life is filled with series of big, gay misunderstandings. Anyway, my big problem is PM Sharon, the mossad and the zionists who are creating bad image and global hate toward the jewish commuity. But then just because the article was posted on an aryan site, it doesn't neccessarily means it's untrue. Of course people are going to dismiss it because it was posted on a hate-group site. Now that you've provided me a source claiming the 4000 missing jew was a lie set up by a group of muslims in hopes to raise suspicions that israelis may have carried the attacks, it makes more sense to me. While it sounds astonishing that 4000 jewish people were prewarned and called in sick that day, it's not impossible.

But I would like to hear your take on the fake osama confession video and why it was released to the public. I want to know what the hell these 5 israeli "art students" doing jumping with joy and videotaping the wtc up in smoke? Why were numerous israelis detained for questioning and sent back to israel? Just curious.

[Abcdxxxx]

"israelis are involved in the spy ring, tricking the US into fighting the Iraq War for them and possibly carrying out the 9/11 attacks."

No I'm calling you an anti-semite because you believe the above to be a sane accusation, to the point where you didn't even feel the need to question the source of your information. It suggests you believe Israelis, and Jews are by nature devious and to blame for current world events. You don't need or want proof, because the idea excites you all on it's own. That in turn makes you an anti-semite.

"While it sounds astonishing that 4000 jewish people were prewarned and called in sick that day, it's not impossible. "

Actually. It is. Jews come in many shapes, sizes, and skin colors. We don't all work as one secret united cabal. By and large, we vote liberal, and hold more ties to Socialist ideals then anything. You can't get 4 Jews to agree on anything, let alone 4000 of us.

Oh and for the record. Conservative Jews don't have "house policies". It must have been specific to that one family. Try getting an education before you take this up as a pet topic.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I want to know what the hell these 5 israeli "art students" doing jumping with joy and videotaping the wtc up in smoke? Why were numerous israelis detained for questioning and sent back to israel? Just curious.

Eject, Geggy, eject!

[Abcdxxxx]

Yeah Geggy, and I wanna know why every internet forum I visit there's an endless amount of supposedly liberal White kids quoting Militia websites as the REAL truth.

[Geggy]

Lets be honest, they don't have to work very hard.

Ain't that the damn truth...

ABCDXXXXXX...

I'm not accusing Israel of anything. I just think a certain group should be taken in for questioning, is all...

Oh I should've mentioned the several house policies of the conservative jews' home that I've broken...I'm gonna list the few that I remember...
Turning off the lights in every room and blowing out the candles on a friday night...
Eating a bowl of cheerios with soy milk using a kosher spoon...
Sitting on a chair in the same room with my friend's sister alone...

I've broken several more and that's all I can remember...

Did you know that hundreds of thousands of jews are opposed to Israel's current foreign policies and demand to create new constitution laws which they don't currently have...

or is that all a big lie?

anyway you still havent answered my question as to your take on the fake osama tape? or are you in denial?

[Abcdxxxx]

No really, have you found any Jewish victims on the WTC list yet?

Because I'm not interested in justifying some Jew hating conspiracys you picked off white Militia websites let alone discussing Jewish Kashrut laws (what's that?) with someone who embraces Holocaust denial rhetoric.

By the way, the whole "there are JEWS who are MY FRIENDS and they AGREE WITH ME AND HATE JEWS TOO" argument is a weak one.

[kahljorn]

"No I'm calling you an anti-semite because you believe the above to be a sane accusation"

Shut up, you sound so irritating.

"Conservative Jews don't have "house policies". It must have been specific to that one family."

Imagine that, the entire jewish population doesn't live in one house. Thank god house is a synonym for WORLD, right?

"Because I'm not interested in justifying some Jew hating conspiracys you picked off white Militia websites"

Well your last few posts in response to 'jew hating conspiracies' have done a really good job expressing that.

"the whole "there are JEWS who are MY FRIENDS and they AGREE WITH ME AND HATE JEWS TOO" argument is a weak one"

Very true, that's a pretty stupid argument, guy.

[Abcdxxxx]

Was that supposed to add something to the conversation? Read my posts twice if you're so brain dead that you decide to involve yourself in discussing a topic you know nothing about.

Conservative Jews are a moderate denomination. What he described was not the behavior of a Conservative Jew. Does it matter ? Not to some door knob like yourself, probably not....but if you can't tell the difference between an Ultra Orthodox family, or some strange family who call themselves conservative yet keep strict household customs - then step off junior. Talk to your friend who used that one family to illustrate how he's met Jews and they're not the most reasonable people to interact with. That he even thinks his sleepover experience is relevant to all his conspiracy theories says more then anything.

Meanwhile, you're defending the guy who links to White pride websites... so what does that make you? I mean besides candidate for douche of the month club.

[El Blanco]

Did you know that hundreds of thousands of jews are opposed to Israel's current foreign policies and demand to create new constitution laws which they don't currently have..

So the fact that a portion of several million people disagree with Sharon and his administration (or atleast some of their policies), thats supposed to be proof of a grand, world dominating Zionist conspiracy that included 9/11?

[Geggy]

No, I was only trying to prove a point that his accusation toward me of being an anti-semite is so narrow-viewed and idiotic. It seems the zionists plan is working...anyone who says theyre against the zionists and israel is anti-semite. And if you're a jew who are against the zionists and israel is a terrorist and a self-hating jew. What the fuck...! He reminds me of a doll with a pull string and everytime I pull the string it would repeat..."Anti semite! Anti semite! Anti semite!"

Yes the way I use my experience of that weekend in a jewish home as a back up in this argument is probably moot...but it's just a way of saying that I have friends who are jewish... and how does that make me anti-semite? If I didn't want to be friends with them simply because they're jewish...then isn't that anti semite?

My guess that abcdxxx is a liberal jew because I know liberal jews don't have a house policies set in their homes. Conversative jews' house policies isn't nearly as strict as the orthodox but they do have some weird rules. Oops I said jews are weird...does that make me anti semite?

[Big Papa Goat]

and anyone who doesn't think that there's a zionist conspiracy is just suffering from false conciousness brought on by the effectiveness and pervasiveness of the conspiracy!

[Abcdxxxx]

Actually, I was raised liberal AND Conservative...and my Father was Orthodox. I think you're mistaking the term Conservative as it applies to politics. That's not at all what it means to observe Judaism as a Conservative Jew.

Look geggy, I don't think you hate Jews, because frankly it's pretty apparent you don't know shit about us.

Now the thing is, you love the rhetoric of the anti-semites who DO hate Jews, absolutely, and unapologetically....for the last time, you are repeating modern day blood libels from hate websites... what do you expect?

[Geggy]

I guess your family isn't as traditional as the family of thge conversative jews that I stayed with?

I had already explained the fact I posted an article from a hate website was unintentional and accidental or are you A.D.D.?

Blah I feel like this argument is going nowhere. You're just being repititive and defensive, I'm not learning anything! You're right I don't know a lot about the history and culture of the jewish but I try my best from what I've learned and experienced. You have the advantage because you were raised a jew and I wasn't. I was exposed to a different religion of my kind and if we were arguing about my religion, it's most likely I would have the advantage. But then a lot of things from my religion are bullshit anyway.

*ejects* :(

[Abcdxxxx]

Are you really trying to have a conversation, or are you just trying to "open our eyes" to a line of proganda that gets your dick hard? It's not 2002 anymore.

Seriously, we've established you're a dumbshit who accidently talks the talk of a bigot, but aside from that, I'll attempt to sort out your confusion about anything you want. I even tried to explain what a Conservative Jew meant.

I'm not going to debunk blood libels though. If you want to believe that Jews plot to control the world, or we use the blood of Arab children to make cookies, you're on your own.