Michael Moore gets some boos for his Oscar speech

[VinceZeb]

Probably because he won an award for something that was mostly bullshit and lies... freakin gun control Nazi.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/24/1048354528177.html

[mburbank]

He got some appluase too, and a stnding ovation for his mostly lies film. Freakin Gun Control Nazi.


Admit it. You just don't like him 'cause he's not trim and fit like you.


STOP OPRESSING HIM FOR HIS BODY!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

The film was excellently done, as far as a documentary goes. I'll admit, he's a bit EXTREME, but that's the effect he's looking for. I don't agree with him on a lot of the gun issues, and I don't make the same connections he does.

I hear this a lot: Probably because he won an award for something that was mostly bullshit and lies

Rather than pasting a link to some un-credible website that we're supposed to look at, why not raise these points and criticisms yourself? Give me a couple of examples of his "lies" in the film....

[Jeanette X]

Wait, I thought he was booed because of his stance on the war?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

He was, Vince was telling a lie.

[VinceZeb]

No, its called "a joke". For a example, look in the mirror.

I cant begin to go at Moore for that stupid movie of his. It would take far too much time that I want to spend and all would you do is argue it and insult me because that is the only thing you can do.

[Anonymous]

You know other people see other people in the mirror, right? :(

[mburbank]

Vince; Since you obviously saw the movie, and I haven't had a chance to, why don't you tell me what you thought of it firsthand.

And Kev, be fair. Only Naldo has the total lack of nuance that leads to calling someone a liar whenever they disagree.

You can call him an Alpha Male Hottie "Officer" if you like, or make fun of him for spending time thinking about kids you don't even have and saying 'pussy' a lot and make smoochie noises at him and tell him he's so far in the closet his signature scent is mothballs, but try to be fair.

[Protoclown]

BURBANK MADE ME :lol

[El Blanco]

Haven't I pointed out his lies and exagerations before?

Anyway, I've seen it and it was more about him making a spectacle than it was about any message.He was more interested in snide remarks and outrageous claims than actually addressing any issues.

[VinceZeb]

I would have told you what I thought, Max, but you just couldn't stop with the smart eleck remarks. If you want intelligent conversation, then act like it. If you want to be a snivelling little toad behind a PC, then continue on your course and I will treat you like the intillectual short-bus rider that you come off as.

Hop on, Max....

http://www.whitetrashdevil.com/temp/bus.gif

[kellychaos]

Michael Moore lacks credibility with me. He comes off well in his documentaries where he has editing control but loses a little something in "real time" when posed questions. I although I agree with him on some issues, he came off looking like a stooge at the Oscars ... blustery rhetoric ... making up words ... stammering ... I was embarassed for him ... and still going off on the election results? ... Jeesh! Might as well have told a Clinton BJ joke ... yikes!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Haven't I pointed out his lies and exagerations before?

No, you too provided links, and said stuff like "boy, that guy sure does lie a lot."

[Anonymous]

I will treat you like the intillectual short-bus rider that you come off as.
"I will treat you like the intellectual short-bus rider as whom you come off."

*And your word selection is shitty.

[VinceZeb]

I apologize for grammer, I am trying to get ready for work and this whole experience with this message board has been a fun and interesting one.

[Anonymous]

That wasn't the point. I'm making fun of you for failing to at least properly inflate your base statement of "you're stupid."

[VinceZeb]

There was nothing else to inflate. I was going to give him my opinions on the Michael Moore movie, but he had to insult me with a stupid baseless claim, so I did the same. There was nowhere else to go.

If you are going to insult me, do it for a good reason and not childish pandering. :/

[kellychaos]

That wasn't the point. I'm making fun of you for failing to at least properly inflate your base statement of "you're stupid."

:lol

[FS]

The speech made me laugh, but it certainly wasn't very shocking or intelligent. Fictitious... uhm... Fictional president, fictional elections, fictional war. I wish he'd thought of something more creative than that.

[The Unseen]

I missed it, I was watching Jurassic Park 2 on Fox, as was n00b3

[ranxer]

i didnt see it :(

but a friend sent an email:
During his speech they cut him off,
whilst he was in the middle of shaming
Bushy for putting Americans at risk.

dang, how did they cut him off?

as for the movie, in defense of Moore i think a lot of the movie was aimed at the media omiting much of the brutal side of our history, downplaying inequalities, and the media being used to maintain a level of fear while playing up an violence or sexism among other impressions that keep people from exercising thier democratic rights. the movie even has an awsome example of the results that can come from exercising those rights with an appeal to KMart by a few gunshot victims that really did get a corporate change. some of the movie is hard to take as a white guy i was cringing at the racism that has been used to commit so many crimes against humanity, but we must face it to understand what people on the recieving end feel.

[mburbank]

"If you are going to insult me, do it for a good reason and not childish pandering."

But I AM insulting you for a good reason, dumpling! Unless English is your second language, in which case I certainly apologize, your writing shows you are a very, VERY stupid person. The 'Short Bus'! My Goodness! I'm going to have to ask you to respect my allergies and blow the dust of your jokes before slapping them on the table like a damp Vienna sausage and claiming it's a Hickory Farms Beefstick!

Your arguments are at best substandard, you accept wholesale any information put before you by the administration, you date rape the English Language, you beat your chest like a sad combination of a frigate bird in full courtship display and Sgt. Rock and you employ the idiom of every message board half wit who ever lurched up from the primordial ooze and attained enough erection to crouch before a keyboard. Worse, you are a Sheeple! 'The Short Bus'! Honestly! You need to get the words "Typical Message board Monkey" on your forehead, but have them write backwards. That way you can read it in the medicine chest mirror while you tweeze that mornings crop of blackheads and practice masculine expressions for the next wave of prospective Freshman at Punitive Bastard Community College. If that is, you have time what with all the offers pouring ion from nuclear submarines and Chembio Units.

[AChimp]

Max, I have pneumonia. You have made my chest hurt from laughing. Now I will writhe in pain all night.

I hope you're happy. :(

[Alxcipher]

...and still going off on the election results?

That is Moore's whole basis for stating the war is "fictitious". Bush was arguably and illegitimate president, if you look at how a republican lead federal court overturned a Florida Supreme court decision throwing away standard judicial convention. He is a president born from party politics who was undemocratically elected, of course then breaking international law and convention in an aggressive war is a large act for an illegitimate president. Of course he has to talk about the election, it is pivotal to his standpoint on the war.

[GAsux]

Michale Moore is entertaining, but his credibility is lacking in my opinion.

When making stands by spouting shallow insults on a national scene, he comes across as more of an attention whore interested in his own cult popularity than someone who is truly passionate and cncerned about the cause.

In my opinion, his actions last night were a discredit to the well informed anti war movement. If he cares so deeply, I think there are a lot more intelligent, pragmatic ways to get his point across.

[AChimp]

He should have mooned everyone, and had "No War" written on his ass.

[VinceZeb]

Moore could have had everyone who was against the war sign his ass and then have enough room for every signature from the citizens of Sacramento, CA.

[El Blanco]

Haven't I pointed out his lies and exagerations before?

No, you too provided links, and said stuff like "boy, that guy sure does lie a lot."

So, I provided a soruce for my opinion? As in proof?

Would it be better if I dragged his ass to your front door and made him admit he lied?


And Vince, that was the worse fat joke ever. And I used to weigh 280 so I've heard them all.

[VinceZeb]

As I said in a previous post, I used to weight 500lbs so I have heard them all plus about 10. Yeah, it was a sucky joke, and I did take the low road, but I've depleted my Moore reserves just after that joke of a mockumentry came out.

[El Blanco]

I'm not getting on you cuz it was a fat joke. I'm getting on you cuz it sucked. You have to do better than that.

[VinceZeb]

Oh, I know. I just dont want to waste the time making the joke. His existance is a joke enought.

[VinceZeb]

http://www.whatever-dude.com/posts/327.shtml

This came to me like a message from God. I could have not written anything better.

[Anonymous]

I don't doubt it.

[Miss Modular]

Chojin made me :lol

[KevinTheOmnivore]

So, I provided a soruce for my opinion? As in proof?

Would it be better if I dragged his ass to your front door and made him admit he lied?

OK, well I paste a 122 page essay/book by Noam Chomsky, and say "look, you're so wrong."

Lets do this like mature adults. We can start with Bowling For Columbine. What were the main arguments made in that film that you guys against him have trouble with???

[El Blanco]

Simple. He lied. That is kind of a problem when a fat putz wins an Oscar for best documentary.

I found an article that is entirely dedicated to pick apart the lies in Bowling for Columbine. Want a link, summary, bullet points, PowerPoint presentation?

I made a point and offered proof. I don't make long ass posts (or try not to) because it will

a) Bore the reader

b) more importantly, bore me

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Simple. He lied. That is kind of a problem when a fat putz wins an Oscar for best documentary.

I'll bet the source you used was equally intelligent and credible.

Since you're too fucking lazy, sure, lets see a link to Bob's homepage.

[El Blanco]

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110003233

Two sources

I think the first pretty much covers it.

Here is your Hollywood intellectualism, kids.

[mburbank]

Vince. Again. Did you see the movie?

[Zosimus]

You all have to be nice to Vince! You see, he just came from a brain-washing right-winged, extremist nazi-board that even he finally couldn't stand anymore. He got into a hot argument with a few guys on this board:

http://www.i-mockery.net/viewtopic.php?t=2001

and as USUAL, he went whining to his buddies on the other board and thats how I got the address to this board. You can check out his whining at:

http://www.newsfilter.org/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4697

There is are a few things you should know prior to climbing onto their board. They are VERY hard-core rightists...you can bombart them with facts and they will retaliate with their moronic rightist views and figures, NO reason in any of the regulars whatsoever...go figure, they swallow cnn and fox RAW.
I got banned from their site a year ago for stating my opinions (a bit too hard perhaps, but still... :/ ). they don't like "lefty, tree-hugging environmentalists" tell them how f***ed they are.

Call me a snitch but, they are THE assholes!! And lately, more and more "leftys" have been ripping through their extemist points of view! Entertainment at its best! Enjoy!

[Zebra 3]

He should have mooned everyone, and had "No War" written on his ass.
:bestthread - Best reply so far!

[The_Rorschach]

Just for the records, I took the time to flip through their site, and sadly those who post there are little different than Vince himself, and in fact, applaud his lack of reason and logic with a fervour matched only by the vacant glee of the mentally incapacitated.

If you thought the latest batch of mindless noobs on this board (who thankfully, stick mostly to the General forum though a few wander in here as well) are a gang of worthless, douchebag divas, you'll be happy to know they rate somewhat higher than the self-righteous shitheels that make up the regulers at Newsfilter.

[VinceZeb]

Zosimus, man, I know I have to regonize you! Who were you, the jew-hating whatreallyhappend.org lemming? Nah... you said you were there a year, well the board went up in August 02 so there is a lie.... were you on the old antimtv.com board? Oh come on, who were you? I just know I got to know it!

Im sorry, the board isnt a right wing extremist nazi board. Considering we have libertarians, socialists, communists, conseratives, paleo-conseratives, atheists, Catholics, Jews, Frenchies, Asians, Blacks, Whites on our board, we are/were a bit bunch Up With People! recruits.

Lets face it, every liberal on there cant back up facts. And who was the extremist? Was it Gator, Preechr, BloodDuster, GenuinePulse, newsfilter, who was it? xagent? CFAG? I am dying to know.

Swallow CNN? Man, you must be a liar or an idiot. I am really dying to know who you are! I guess I will find out soon enough. Although, I bet i know who you are... considering you never put any thought into a post and always talked about the jews causing everything, you got banned because you are a fucking idiot, not becuase of your opinions.

[VinceZeb]

Max, like I said before. I was interested in a debate about the movie until you couldn't stop from insulting me. So you will be ignored once again.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'm replying to the first link provided by Blanco.

I'm going to respond to their numbered claims against Moore:

1)Lockheed-Martin and Nuclear Missiles

They essentially claim that Moore lied, because it turned out that the missiles made their were actually no longer used in offensive situations, rather, to instead carry satewllites.

In defense of Moore, the PR guy he spoke to at the plant never even explains this, nor does he even use this in defense of himself. If the guy who runs the place doesn't even know, why would/should Moore?

As for the "integrity" of the documentary, this doesn't say that Moore lied, it says that Moore simply didn't know, and if anything is guilty of being lazy. Does this make him a liar? I don't think so.

Secondly, do you think the folks who live in that area, PARTICULARLY the teenagers who shot up Columbine H.S., knew the details of the plant? I live relatively close to Indian Point power plant in NY. I have NO idea what regions of the state that powers, or even what particular uses they put the power towards. All I know is that it's POWERFUL. Whether or not the missiles had warhead nukes for war is another question. LM DOES make missiles for the purposes of war, maybe not in Littleton, but certainly elsewhere. People DO know that.

2)NRA and the Reaction To Tragedy

"Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting, whose place and date had been fixed years in advance."

lame excuse.

"Fact: At Denver, the NRA canceled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' meeting; that could not be cancelled because corporate law required that it be held. [No way to change location, since you have to give advance notice of that to the members, and there were upwards of 4,000,000 members.]"

And I'm sure "corporate law" would've brought the NRA to court, not even two weeks after the Columbine shootings, in order to inforce said "corporate law."

"Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was a response to his being given the musket, a collector's piece, at that annual meeting. Bowling leads off with this speech, and then splices in footage which was taken in Denver and refers to Denver, to create the impression that the entire clip was taken at the Denver event."

I took a look at this guys research, as well as the original NRA transcript. The accusation levied against Moore is that he created a new speech from pieces of Heston's speech. Now if he distorted the words to make Heston imply something else, then I think there's a case here. But when you read the entire Heston transcript, and get to the part where he addresses the mayor, the SAME message of defiance that Moore depicted is still conveyed. Perhaps Moore wanted the same effect in less time. However, the one addition of the "cold dead hands" part is wrong, if true (anybody otherthan this "guy" find this out?).

That aside, it doesn't really change the fact that the NRA still went into Littleton after Columbine to be reactionary and defiant. I read the original speech, and I found Heston's passing words for the tragedy to be less than satisfactory. So the excuse is pre-arranged plans and "corporate law."

"Fact: Heston's speech was given at a "get out the vote" rally in Flint, which was held when elections rolled around some eight months after the shooting."

Is 8 months not a short period for that? Do you think everybody in that town had moved on after simply 8 months??

I'll admit, I did not know this. The movie certainly gives you the impression that the NRA deliberately looks for places recently troubled with gun violence. I'd be interested to see MORE cases however, to see if beyong Littleton and Flint, if such cases exist.

3) Animated sequence equating NRA with KKK.

Don't see the problem with this one. Despite good pr by NRA founders, here's an interesting question: How many Klan members do you think were members of the NRA? This is probably nearly impossible to answer, due to the Klan's anonimity, however I don't think connecting a certain kind of attitude within what, 5 year period?, is that off. And nothing claimed by Moore in that instance was historically incorrect, as in dates, etc.

I will respond to the rest later, way too late, way too long.....

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'd be interested to see MORE cases however, to see if beyong Littleton and Flint, if such cases exist.

I'd like to know if this was exaggerated or spliced.

October 30, 2002

Heston On His Way to Tucson to Gloat After Latest School Shooting


To: Charlton Heston, President, NRA
From: Michael Moore, Winner, NRA Marksman Award
Subject: Your Visit to Tucson Today in the Wake of Another School Shooting

Dear Mr. Heston:

When you showed up in Denver to hold your pro-gun rally just days after the massacre at nearby Columbine High School, the nation was shocked at your incredible insensitivity to those who had just lost loved ones.

When you came to Flint to hold another rally in the months after a 6-year old boy shot a 6-year old girl at a nearby elementary school, the community was stunned by your desire to rub its face in its grief.

But your announcement that you are on your way to Tucson today, just 48 hours after a student at the University of Arizona shot and killed three professors and then himself, to hold ANOTHER big pro-gun celebration -- this time to get out the vote for the NRA-backed Republican running for Congress -- well, sir, I have to ask you: Have you no shame?

I am asking that you not go to Tucson today. Do not cause any more grief, any more pain. Let the relatives and friends of the deceased mourn. Why show up to play the role of the bully, kicking these good people when they are down, just so you can prove that you have a right to your big, bad guns? These are not the actions of a once brave and decent man. They are the acts of a coward, as no man of courage would think of picking on his fellow citizens when they are so consumed with tragedy.

Obviously, you couldn't care less. Because to you, The Gun is supreme -- and wherever it is used to kill multiple people (preferably at a school), there shall we find you gloating about some misbegotten right you think you have to own a device that is designed to eliminate human life.

Well, Mr. Heston, this time I think you have crossed the line. I hope that your efforts as a gun supremacist -- you are now, I understand, in the middle of a 12-state tour to help elect Republicans -- backfire on you in the surest way that it can: total rejection of you, the NRA, and the candidates you back come next Tuesday. The American people have had enough.

To the people of Tucson and the students at the University of Arizona, I am so sorry for the tragedy you have suffered, and I feel terribly sad that you will have to endure the sight of Charlton Heston and his gun nuts today. Take some solace in knowing that your fellow Americans by an overwhelming margin want tough gun laws -- and that the day of obtaining them is not far away. There is one small way to make sure Heston and the NRA are stopped in their tracks -- just check out the website of the man (http://www.grijalva2002.com/) they have come to Tucson to defeat. Let them pack their guns -- we will pack the polls!

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
Mike@michaelmoore.com

[VinceZeb]

I always loved that last part where tubby put the argument that the KKK is like the NRA.

Since tubby is too tired from patting himself on the back, we smart people have to clear the air with the truth: The first gun laws that prevented people from having guns were created FOR FREED SLAVES, AND WE ALL KNOW WHAT RACE THAT FREED SLAVES IN AMERICA WERE, PEOPLE!

http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/ - go and learn, ignorant sheeple. Go to "The Racist Roots of Gun Control". See those numbered links by his statements? Those are called footnotes, which lead to documents, which are FACTS! Oh wow, facts bringing up their ugly head again.


But I guess to you folks he is just an "Uncle Tom" who sold out to whitey, huh? Also has a cool fucking shirt that I am soon to be buying.

edit: Oh yeah, when Moore went against a man who may have Alzheimer’s, that was pretty low. If he had any balls, he would go after the REAL head of the NRA, Wayne- La Pierre.

[Anonymous]

It is the mark of a genius to go and cry to another board about how much sand we've poured into your vagina in an attempt to rally like-minded sheeple to assist in your gritty sexual organ-oriented malady.

You kids just remember that.

P.S. "Rock on," Vinnie \m/

[VinceZeb]

Actually, I didn't cry to that board at all. I just felt idiots like you needed to be exposed. I have not posted there in around 2 months. Had a falling out. But I figured that morons such as yourself need a little sunlight. I'm all for exposing you morons for who you are. I am also trying to get you posted at a few major web sites for the anti-war idiocy that you all spew.

This is quite fun, actually.

[Anonymous]

That's right. Get it all out.

Mom has ice cream ready in the kitchen for when you can see well enough again to get there.

[mburbank]

Oh, Vincey.

Did I hurt your feelings? Did I not show the proper respect for your interest in debate. I didn't think it would bother a Man like you. I thought you might even see respct as 'feminizing' you.

But, if you have to be a 'big crybaby girl' about it, so be it.

I haven't seen the movie anyway, so I wouldn't debate its merits. "Roger and Me", fine. "Columbine"? haven't seen it.

See, I was just asking. But if my assumtion that you were just blowing sea water out your blowhole offended your delicate sensabilities, well, I'm sure I'm sorry, and I'll make every ttempt to be gentler in the future.

[VinceZeb]

Chojin, you are calling me a whiny child? Wow. Someone who talks in intelligent sentences about intelligent issues VS some kid who is a "Gay Alien Bondage Dog". Lets take a world wide poll and see who is more mature? I don't think you want to take me up on that.

No, you didn't offend me one bit. Let's be realistic, Max. If you decided to walk out in front of a freight train today, I can always find another idiot to argue with. Your are a dime a baker's dozen. You only matter to me because I like arguing with idiots. It's a hobby, I guess.

You wanted something from me, and then turn around and try to be cute. So thus, you don't get it. Words mean things, moron. If you would have not tried to be cute, I would have given you my opinions on the movie. But since you were, no cookie for you.

[Anonymous]

And we need look no further than Proto's signature to see those intelligent sentences.

PS. Cute Gay Alien Bondage Dog, according to you, missah. ;)

[Zosimus]

Zosimus, man, I know I have to regonize you! Who were you, the jew-hating whatreallyhappend.org lemming? Nah... you said you were there a year, well the board went up in August 02 so there is a lie.... were you on the old antimtv.com board? Oh come on, who were you? I just know I got to know it!

Im sorry, the board isnt a right wing extremist nazi board. Considering we have libertarians, socialists, communists, conseratives, paleo-conseratives, atheists, Catholics, Jews, Frenchies, Asians, Blacks, Whites on our board, we are/were a bit bunch Up With People! recruits.

Lets face it, every liberal on there cant back up facts. And who was the extremist? Was it Gator, Preechr, BloodDuster, GenuinePulse, newsfilter, who was it? xagent? CFAG? I am dying to know.

Swallow CNN? Man, you must be a liar or an idiot. I am really dying to know who you are! I guess I will find out soon enough. Although, I bet i know who you are... considering you never put any thought into a post and always talked about the jews causing everything, you got banned because you are a fucking idiot, not becuase of your opinions.


yes vince, I'm sure that I am the idiot :rolleyes ! It only takes a moment of glancing through ANY of YOUR posts (anywhere you've been) to be able to distinct whom the real idiot is here, and I can assure you my little friend that it isn't I! :troutslap
First of all, I was on the antimtv-board, which by all means is the same board as the one your truth-fucking-friends now have on newsfilter. Interesting choice of name "Newsfilter", Eric should call himself "Truthfilter" instead, but naturally he was, from the start, just a lying, bigot, low-life racist anyways. So, who cares what he is anyways! His mouth, like yours, is bigger than his balls. Since you keep writing back and whining, why don't you go back and beg for some info...I'm sure you've done that already! :eek

I am not who you think I am, as I have never hated Jews or any other culture in the WORLD! FYI, I happen to only hate discriminative people such as yourself...so call me a "racist." I think I could live with that.
People like you, are only trouble-making hatemongerers. You have no morals in regard to other creatures or lifeforms except for yourself. Your best features are: SELFISH, concieted and arrogant. You call Chojin a child, and yet you are the one who needs to grow up, and start re-evaluating your norms and values. I just plainly find you dumb, and as for your disregard for human life in general well, I wish I had you in range with a gun pointing at YOU.... maybe that might put some respect into you (not to mention, change your mind about alot of things) and the likes of you!
There is one thing I have to say to your defense, your buddies are harder to deal with than you. All you do is whine :wah ........

oops..got so carried away before that I forgot to respond to the other points:

1) I love the fact that you say "we have" when you said "fuck you I'm leaving this site" to them! LOL

2) Vince, how many "Blacks" and socialists would you say are represented on that (piece of crap) board? How many "leftist? 3? :lol

These boys are all extremists in most of their topics and resposes. They consist of white, religious :confused :rolleyes, republican, war-loving extremists. Yeah, the variation of different opinions at that place is REALLY mind-blowing ! tssk...

3) You are Completely wrong vince, there ARE actually liberals there that have SUPERB facts to back them up: LondonProphet, Lemuel Pigoen, Taffer, occasionally Preechr, just to mention some you know!
BTW: Liberals and leftists don't have to go very far to get to the truth... :)

4) Yes! CNN, Fox, all of the brain-washing medias that love to fuck with the public's heads! Thank god for the internet, at least now people have a chance to hear what people are thinking in other countries. These newschannels serve you what they want you to know, not what you OUGHT to know!!

[FS]

Actually, I didn't cry to that board at all. I just felt idiots like you needed to be exposed. I have not posted there in around 2 months. Had a falling out. But I figured that morons such as yourself need a little sunlight. I'm all for exposing you morons for who you are. I am also trying to get you posted at a few major web sites for the anti-war idiocy that you all spew.

This is quite fun, actually.

"Wah, wah! I'm outnumbered by the evil bedwetting treehuggers and I need my backup!" You little bitch. If you want a crowd of people nodding and masturbating synchronically as you type your ridiculous blood rants in a frantic attempt at defeating a cruel childhood of looking like Pop'n Fresh, go back to this aptly named newsfilter board. You're not going to defeat anyone here. No one's going to be impressed or give up when there's a few people here tell you to "keep fighting" against "that gay liberalist scum" in poor spelling and possibly all caps.

[El Blanco]

As for the "integrity" of the documentary, this doesn't say that Moore lied, it says that Moore simply didn't know, and if anything is guilty of being lazy. Does this make him a liar? I don't think so.


Thats the problem, whether he lied or half assed it, he intentionally misled people. What kind of documentary is that?




Secondly, do you think the folks who live in that area, PARTICULARLY the teenagers who shot up Columbine H.S., knew the details of the plant? I live relatively close to Indian Point power plant in NY. I have NO idea what regions of the state that powers, or even what particular uses they put the power towards. All I know is that it's POWERFUL. Whether or not the missiles had warhead nukes for war is another question. LM DOES make missiles for the purposes of war, maybe not in Littleton, but certainly elsewhere. People DO know that.

A) I'm pretty sure the people who work in the plants have an idea if they are or aren't making missiles.

B) It has little if anything to do with the shooting, no matter what Moore wants people to believe.

I took a look at this guys research, as well as the original NRA transcript. The accusation levied against Moore is that he created a new speech from pieces of Heston's speech. Now if he distorted the words to make Heston imply something else, then I think there's a case here. But when you read the entire Heston transcript, and get to the part where he addresses the mayor, the SAME message of defiance that Moore depicted is still conveyed. Perhaps Moore wanted the same effect in less time. However, the one addition of the "cold dead hands" part is wrong, if true (anybody otherthan this "guy" find this out?).


Did he, or did he not cut and paste to make a new speech? Yes, he did.

I've read the entire speech, I don't see it as that defiant. Then again, I haven't actually seen the speech so I don't know what the tone was.

That aside, it doesn't really change the fact that the NRA still went into Littleton after Columbine to be reactionary and defiant.

He went to fufill an obligation he made to members. He didn't do it to rub it in the noses of the victims and their families. And how reactionary can it be if it is planned years in advance? And it wasn't Littleton, it was Denver. Not a huge difference, until you realize that Denver is a major metro area and huge support center for the NRA.

"Fact: Heston's speech was given at a "get out the vote" rally in Flint, which was held when elections rolled around some eight months after the shooting."

Is 8 months not a short period for that? Do you think everybody in that town had moved on after simply 8 months??

He wasn't campaigning for the NRA. He was encouraging people to vote. I'll give you that he probably threw in some NRA rhetoric, but who doesn't slip in there own beliefs at things like that?

And do you think everyone in town cared after 8 weeks?

How many Klan members do you think were members of the NRA?

Come on. That question is so biased, it nearly sickens me. Do you know that the NRA wants to grant equal Second Amendment protection to everyone? Regardless of race, religion, social standing etc? If you look at a lot of gun control laws, they highly favor the rich and the racists.

How many KKK members do you think belong to AAA? Does either have anything to do with the other?

No. Moore tried to portray the NRA as a bunch of old white racist extremists, which is far from the truth. They have done twice as much for civil rights as that asshole and represent at least 83 million Americans (thats their official membership, anyway). I don't agree with them on a lot of issues, but I certainly have more respect for them than some fake "Hollywood intellectual".

The shame is, I agreed with the original premise of the movie. It was supposed to examine the violent nature in America. But, instead he went on a liberal rant and crying all over the Columbine shooting, while almost entirly ignoring the hundreds of innercity shootings every year. Instead of actually getting the ball rolling on solving the problem, he just went and took the usual potshots everyone else already has.

I was at first shocked to find this won an Oscar for best documentary, but then I realized, these are the same assholes who gave a standing ovation to a fugitive child rapist.

[Zosimus]

Hey Vince come again!

[theapportioner]

Well, as a tree huggin Constitution hatin faggoty bleedin heart liberal, I will also say that I think Moore's movie is shit.

[mburbank]

Really? 'Cause I haven't seen it. What about you, Vince? Seen it?

Seriously though.
"Someone who talks in intelligent sentences" doesn't talk about a country that has hostilities to us. And that's HARDLY you're only stand out mangling. I'm not sayying I don't get your points, but I am saying the next time you put together a list of things to pat yourself on the back about, you should concider crossing off 'talks in intelligent sentences'. Stick to your strengths. You're very good at bragging.

"You wanted something from me, and then turn around and try to be cute."
If you can't see tht I'm gtting everything I want from you and a side of fries you must have visual problems as well as heat rash.

And I'm not so interested in your predictable opinions about the movie. I'm just asking you if you saw it.

[Zebra 3]

:picklehat - Finally, Michael Moore's credibility is resolved. His Holiness Rael (http://www.rael.org/) has awarded Moore the "Honory Guide" title. You can read it here. (http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/SC0304/S00043.htm)

[ranxer]

Re: moore list of 'lies'
i thought all the criticizms at that site were whiney(but i only read kevins quote), i never thought it was a 'documentary' more a mooreumentary or something but ive also never seen him lie just expose and illustrate with standupish cynical humor, he's laughing at you critics ;)

splicing something that heston said at another meeting makes fine sense in the movies, sounded like a speech or two maybe a splice to show the nra's position works too.. hestons been pretty consistant in his stance, no?

and
Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting, whose place and date had been fixed years in advance."

!!? i got that impression from the movie. i'm pretty sure moore said and '..at an anual nra..' 'the week of the shooting..' i didnt bring a vid cam into the theater but i wanted to, damn thing aint on vhs till dec. is that normal time lag?

either way, i thought the point was that the nra and heston seems to have blundered(exposed themselves) in not being concerned or informed enough to relate guns to murder in a school.

[VinceZeb]

Zos, Erik recently moved and his site makes him a nice little bit of money so he doesnt have to work. What do you do? That's what I thought.

You are still an idiot. I don't need help from anyone to argue with the likes of your stupid ass. I can handle myself.

[Helm]

I don't think I've ever seen so many idiotic personal images & signatures on a message board.

[VinceZeb]

Yeah, no one has a setup like you, helm. Some videogame chick and a bunch of numbers. Man, you really just own the rest of us, huh?

[El Blanco]

either way, i thought the point was that the nra and heston seems to have blundered(exposed themselves) in not being concerned or informed enough to relate guns to murder in a school.


Those kids also made pipe bombs and took the propane tank off a bbq to use as a bomb, yet no one protests Home Depot.

As I have said before, Moore is neither innovative or insightful. He takes the same potshots tons of others take. He just looks like a slob doing it.

[Helm]

Yeah, no one has a setup like you, helm. Some videogame chick and a bunch of numbers. Man, you really just own the rest of us, huh?

Yes.

[mburbank]

I was just kind of wondering recently if Vince had ever seen this movie.


"What do you do? That's what I thought."

Vince, you should wait for Zos to answer so you won't be all embarassed like you were when it turned out Kelly has seen combat and you ended up looking like a colossal idiot.

[Vibecrewangel]

Gun control was originally designed to control Blacks and is racist

Illegalizing marijuana was originally to control Mexicans and is racist

Private schools were to originally designed to keep the rich away from the poor. Most of the poor were Black or Mexican. Guess what........racist.

[El Blanco]

Private schools were to originally designed to keep the rich away from the poor. Most of the poor were Black or Mexican. Guess what........racist.

Calm down. Private schools were meant for the rich, but they were equal opportunity excluders. Black, white, Mexican, Indian, as long as you were poor, you were out.

[Vibecrewangel]

Blanco -

My point was...that Vince, who doesn't live in the past like all those museum lovin' people, keeps spouting off about how gun control laws used to be racist while something he is so in favor of, private schools, used to be just as racist.

How was that for a run-on sentance?

[The_Rorschach]

With all due respect, they aren't all that similar however.

I believe in absolute freedom absolutely. I am more than willing to tolerate racism in the private sector, assuming that racism is not endorsed publically. By which I mean, lets say a privately-owned Golf Club decides it does not wish to allow anyone with white fingernails to join. I believe this is their perogative, so long as the prejudice is passive i.e. they are simply refusing admittance to such individuals and not seeking them out and setting fire to their front yards.

Institutionalized racism however, such as laws, should be race neutral. I don't believe the gun laws of old were racist. Alright, cheap pistolas were illegal to sell. The argument goes, Well, The Blacks Were The Poorest So Thats An Example Of Whitey Trying To Keep Them Unarmed! Not so. Poverty is an equal oppourtunity lender, and (debatable) statistics have shown that more whites than blacks were adversely affected by that law. In number only, however, not by percentile, it should be noted.

I'm afraid I stand by Blanco on this one Vibe :(

[theapportioner]

Private v Public... what about affirmative action in a private versus public university? Question for everyone.

[Vibecrewangel]

Ror -

I agree with both you and Blanco, however I am only talking about the race issue. Not the legal issue.
I tend to take things down to their most base point. In this case racsim. Legal or social, racism is racism.

Vince is crying racism when it comes to gun control, but not when it comes to private schools. Not to mention he is talking about the past when he does, not the present. And remember, he lives in the present.....at least when it comes to museums. With gun control it's okay to live in the past so it seems.

I was only trying to show that he is picking an choosing. Just like the killing / murder issue in another thread.

[VinceZeb]

Please explain to me how gun control and private schools are even alike in the public debate?

Possesion of weapons is given to us in the 2nd Amendment. Private schools are there for EVERYONE, as long as you can afford to pay. There are BLACK schools, Vibe.

The whole voucher movment is very simple: The money that Ms. Jones pays for her kid out of her taxes to go to a shitty public drug ridden school is then given to a private school that will allow her kid to get a good education. Private school students PAY for public schools. They should be able to get a tax credit based on the tuition they pay for private schools. It creates COMPETITION! Competition elimateds the sucky schools and raises the bar on ALL schools. The kids and parents win. The Teacher's Union ends up looking stupid.

[mburbank]

Say Vince, ever seen "Bowling for Cloumbine"?

[VinceZeb]

Say Vince, ever seen "Bowling for Cloumbine"?

Nope, but I have seen "Bowling For Columbine".

[Vibecrewangel]

Please explain to me how gun control and private schools are even alike in the public debate?

Possesion of weapons is given to us in the 2nd Amendment. Private schools are there for EVERYONE, as long as you can afford to pay. There are BLACK schools, Vibe.


Gun control IN THE PAST had some basis in race.
Private schools IN THE PAST had some basis in race.

Now you bring up the second ammendment. The last two times that gun control was brought up your first line of defense was Black Man With a Gun. All I am saying is that using racism as your main quailfier for why you don't like something makes you look hypocritical when the same argument can be used for something you support. And don't try to tell me that you were differentiating between legal and social. You were talking about racism plain and simple. And just in case you still want too, might I remind you that it was social racism that caused racist laws to pass in the first place.
The second ammendment issue I can't disagree with. But then, that was not what you brought up first.

Black schools.....um......duh. I was hoping you'd go there. I just want to thank you for mentioning that private schools are racist NOW as well as IN THE PAST. You saved me the trouble.

[VinceZeb]

Racism isn't my main argument about gun control. It's unconstitutional. That is my main argument. I use the race argument because liberals love to throw it around. And since liberals "care" about minorities so much (especially during voting times), I want to see how they react to it.

But the school comparision doesnt make sense. If a school wants to be known as a black school, let it. I wouldn't go to Bob Jones University because they are a bunch of fundie Bible thumping sheep fuckers and they wouldn't go to Notre Dame because their ignorance of the Bible and common teachings would be shattered, plus we have a rule about not screwing our own kin.

[mburbank]

YOWTCH! Ya got me there, pard! If there's two things I am it's a Jew and a shitty speller.

Seriously, you actually saw it? You plunked down your hard earned post tax dollars and sat in a movie theater and saw it? Honestly? I mean only you know if that's true or not, but I have to ask, why?

[VinceZeb]

My friend had a DVD copy that was a promotional tool.

[Vibecrewangel]

Vince,

Please take this as the honest advice it is meant to be. If what you say is true, and you only throw things around because liberals do, you should stop. It does nothing to support your stance on any issue, and actually makes you look like a back peddling hypocritical ass. Base your arguments on what you actually believe and you will not only be taken more seriously, you will sound more intelligent and the ground you stand on will be more solid.

Most of the time, I can see what you are trying to say, but it does get muddled in what appears to be your desire to immitate the talk radio hosts you admire. Unfortunatley, your presentation comes off more like Rod Farva in Super Troopers.

Take the time to learn to present your case clearly before you try to make jokes on the subject. Especially if you really want to go into talk radio. (That was you right? I ain't goin' searchin' for dat piece of info) Talk radio hosts are masters at making other people look like fools, not themselves. Slow down, especially when you are writing something and think about how it is going to come across to people other than yourself. Can it be misconstrued? Is there another side? Does it make sense? Try to be objective when you are discussing something. Be open to other views. You don't have to agree with them, you just have to accept that they exist. And that they may be just as valid as your view if you actually look at them with something less than a closed mind.

[mburbank]

Oh, boy.

See now, what Vibe just said? That's what I'd be saying if I was much, much, much, much nicer than I am. It was direct, truthful, to the point, kind and what you need to hear. Treat your ambitions with some respect.



Oh, and is your convenient friend with the 'promotional' DVD a convenient Tibetan, a hot li'l Latino, or a submarine throwin' away roomate?

[VinceZeb]

Vibe, I already do all of that. It's not that I am lazy on here, it's that I just dont care.

I do love the Farva reference though. I to sometimes perfer a goddamn Litera Cola.


He's actually a one-eyed Social Services worker named Petey, Max. And why the hell are you bringing up Tibetians? What the hell do they have to do with anything?

[Vibecrewangel]

Vince,

It's not just here. You come across this way on your own site. Which I am assuming you do care about.

[Protoclown]

Actually Vibe, have you taken a look at that piece of shit? It's pretty obvious he DOESN'T care about it.

[Vibecrewangel]

I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

[Anonymous]

In Real Life he is brilliant
How do you think he gets all those fine ladies?

[ranxer]

vince, did you see the whole movie or just a promotional clip?

the 'promotional' video i saw was less than ten minutes long..
the movie was over an hour and a half..
i didn't get to see 100% of the movie yet because there was something wrong with the sound system at the theater i went to in chicago. hah, the volume was at like 180% and blowing our eardrums .. i was in the lobby trying to get them to fix it for at least 5 min.. i'm sure it was an innocent mistake, heh.. then again i wonder.

[The_Rorschach]

I saw the movie, and it was crud. Poorly researched, he put more of an emphasis on sensationalism and headlining than in-depth disclosure of facts. But thats Moore, he's to Liberals what Boortz, O'Reilly or Limbaugh are to Conservatives.

Leave Hannity alone, he's a cut above those maggots >:

[mburbank]

See, Vince? THAT's why I started posting stuff from your site. Because your whole argument that you just don't give a crap about your I-mockery posts is garbage.

You don't do one damn thing Vibe was nice enough to detail for you. You work is slipshod and lazy and your articles and rants are only marginally better than the off the top of your head stuff you favor us with.

That's the MAIN reason I take off after you. You have this GIGANTIC ego, you boast about how you can back it up and all you offer is pap, regurgitation, spleen, and crap.

Show some self respect. Do a little work, think before you type, if you're going to call something an 'article' or 'essay' or even 'rant'
for God's sake do more than one draft.

And stop telling yourself you don't care. Horseshit. If you didn't care you wouldn't bother. You came here thinking you could make 'libs' look 'stupid' and that it would be 'fun' to be an asshole. You've certainly garnered lot of attention, but that's what a laughingstock does. This isn't one of your "I-Can-Hardly-write-a-sentence-but-boy-do-I-hate-the-same-
folks-you-hate" sites. Drop your lame former fat boy chip on shoulder chest puffing and try writting sentences that actually express what's in your head. Work at it, at least on your own site... Hard work is good for you.

[Vibecrewangel]

This phrase is one of the many titles of the concept many have around the world about being a society that does not need leader, govt or Supreme Being to dictate the course of our actions.

This is the first sentance of the first article on your site.

At first read I honestly couldn't figure out what you were saying. But after reading it two or three times, breaking it down as I went, the meaning became more clear.

What I think you are trying to say is that the phrase All Indians/No Chiefs is a title given to the concept that a society does not need a leader, govt or Supreme Being to dictate the course of it's actions. Many people around the world believe in this concept.

I'm not trying to Burbank you here. I am honestly trying to get you to look at your own work as another person would. You may know what you were trying to say, but will they?


My S/O is laughing at me right now. He has me proofread all his papers for college for just this reason. Though he often jokingly points out that it is unfair that his un-edu-ma-cated girlfriend is proofing his papers for readability. :)

[mburbank]

Hee hee.

'Burbank' him.