Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I apologize if there's already a 19 page thread on this lurking somewhere. :(

Anybody intend to see this? iknow it's a kids film, but I think it looks pretty damn good. I like C.S. Lewis, too.

Of course Disney had to go and blatantly market it to Christian groups, so now we'll have the same argument we did over the Passion, yet this time it'll be even more ridiculous, and with a talking lion who may be Jesus. :(

[the_dudefather]

it looks surprizingly epic from the trailers when i first saw them, i thought it was just about some posh english kids resisting the lures of turkish delight or something

[Jeff The Ninja]

That movie is going to Kick ass.
http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/narnia/wallpaper/nn_wall_battlescene_1280.jpg
And that is one badass Wallpaper.

[Lye]

i can't wait to see it.
i saw the animated one when i was a kid.

[MLE]

the white which's hair was black, though. in the movie they have it as blonde.

i agree that it's going to turn into a passion arguement, which ticks me off. I own two copies of the narnia series just cause i like it that much (one's a collector's set). If they only do this movie and not the other 6, i'm going to be a bit more than miffed.

I would totally want to see Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

[AChimp]

This movie looks like it will rock. :posh

I think they made the witch's hair white because she's all icy. It's about imagery. :O

[Protoclown]

Kevin, are you honestly surprised that Disney is marketing this BLATANTLY CHRISTIAN story to Christian groups? I mean come on, it's not much of a stretch there.

I think the movie is going to fall flat because of the talking animals. Any time you have talking animals in a live-action movie it's going to look completely fucking ridiculous. It's going to be an unintentional comedy for that reason, and I hear that C.S. Lewis was completely against his work being turned into any sort of live-action movie because he knew how ridiculous it would look.

[Rosenstern]

I had to read this story in 3rd or 4th grade, and now I don't remember anything about it. At that time, we read it only as an adventure story and not as a Christian allegory. Of course, that never crossed our little minds back then. How much of a Christian story is it, really? What are all the symbolisms and such?

[the_dudefather]

hell, halo can be a christian allegory if you read hard enough into it

[pjalne]

Yeah, but Narnia is flat-out allegory. Doesn't Aslan practically go "LOL, BTW Im Jesus" at the end?

As for Lewis not being keen on live-action animals: this was back in the days when making lions talk involved felt and strings. Talking CGI animals may not look all that hot, but it's leaps and bounds better than what could have been accomplished in Lewis's days. If this movie runs into trouble, I'm sure expectations will be a much bigger factor than the animated Aslan. Primarily, this seems like a movie for kids, and I'm sure a lot of people are expecting a new Lord of the Rings.

I bet Tilda Swinton's gonna prove an awesome choice for the witch character, though.

[the_dudefather]

lol

isnt there 7 books or something, are there going to be movies for each one, or is this one the only one (or are some bunched togather or anything)

[pjalne]

No, this is only one book. The studio is shooting for a franchise.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Kevin, are you honestly surprised that Disney is marketing this BLATANTLY CHRISTIAN story to Christian groups? I mean come on, it's not much of a stretch there.

And your response is the reason I'm irritated with Disney. There are people out there who are already convinced that C.S. Lewis had some nefarious intentions to convert lots of little children to Christianity. Disney is only pandering to that feeling.


I think the movie is going to fall flat because of the talking animals. Any time you have talking animals in a live-action movie it's going to look completely fucking ridiculous. It's going to be an unintentional comedy for that reason, and I hear that C.S. Lewis was completely against his work being turned into any sort of live-action movie because he knew how ridiculous it would look.

I think you're absolutely wrong, and who cares what Lewis said? You hear that kind of stuff all of the time, artists and writers opposed to anything being done with their work. Doesn't Stephen King still swear that he hasn't seen the original Shining? Which one would you pay to see, the one with Jack, or the made-for-TV one directed by King with the dude from Wings in it?

Plus, Lewis died long before he ever could've realized what would/could be done with computers and graphics and stuff. I think he'd maybe come around on this one.

Either way, whether it gets Lewis' posthumous blessing or not, I think it shall rock. :rock

[Protoclown]

I don't know man, I really think that Aslan is going to come across like Mister Ed, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

And WASN'T Lewis trying to convert a bunch of kids to Christianity with this story in the first place?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

No more or less than you could accuse Tolkien of, who was his Bible study pal. The reason nobody reads too far into LOTR is because the story fucking rules.

[AChimp]

Lewis wanted his story to be interpreted on "many different levels," whatever that's supposed to mean. Yeah, there's religious overtones in it, most of them a lot more obvious than LoTR, but I don't think that's going to affect the general perception of the movie.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Everybody who writes fiction brings their own intellectual and philosophical baggage with them.

I think Lewis also gets a lot of flack because he was a very outspoken Christian writer in his other writings.

[Supafly345]

For some reason a religious theme makes it worse. Would it become a better story if we found out that wasn't his original intention or something?

[Spectre X]

Just so you know, LotR is not an allegory for the bible. Tolkien himself flat-out said that, and added that he hated allegory in all of its forms.

[Royal Tenenbaum]

Nothing can touch the old BBC version. So awesome, yet so terrible. I bet this wil suck, but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Super, tell that to pat Robertson and the 700 Club, who had expert after expert on their program telling people why it was ok to see LOTR instead of Harry potter. :/

It's all about how deep you wanna read into these things. Tolkien and Lewis could both have said whatever they like, but both stories chronicle a very traditional storyline of good versus evil, blah blah....

[xbxDaniel]

I was told LoTR was a satire on world war II i.e. Tree people americans, the men european, the drawves ruskies, the men of the east the Japs, the orcs germany. There are others but I need to talk to my history teacher to remember any of them.

hell, halo can be a christian allegory if you read hard enough into it

And while our leader Master Cheif led the chosen marines into the temple of the evil ones he blessed his bullets and they shot true and fast. The covenant heretics ran in cowardice as the Master shot their asses. Then the flood (who control all things media and the money) ate his ass.
I hated The Library.

I really have no intention of seeing this movie, there was something else I wanted to watch but I don't remember what it is now.

[Supafly345]

Super, tell that to pat Robertson and the 700 Club, who had expert after expert on their program telling people why it was ok to see LOTR instead of Harry potter. :/
I was commenting to Proto and others who seem reluctant to even risk liking this based on the religious undertones.

Tolkien also flat out said that SpectreX is full of shit.

[Emu]

I only saw a moment's flash of the animals in the commercials, but I thought they looked pretty good. :/

And I don't really give a shit about the Christian overtones but for the fact that every time this happens the story becomes ridiculously predictable.

[maggiekarp]

I don't like the commercials that say the story is destined to become a classic, like it isn't one already :/

I read the first one a long time ago, but lost the second book and therefore never finished the series :(

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Yeah, those commercials are sort of silly. Isn't the story itself already a "classic"???

[Emu]

No, because kids don't read anymore. If it wasn't a movie, it wasn't a classic.

[pjalne]

I was told LoTR was a satire on world war II i.e. Tree people americans, the men european, the drawves ruskies, the men of the east the Japs, the orcs germany. There are others but I need to talk to my history teacher to remember any of them.


The reason everybody is cramming allegories into every crack they can find in Lord of the Rings is that the book is meant to follow the mythological structure that's hardwired into our brains. You can make everything fit into this structure as long as you're able to choose a protagonist and an antagonist from a historical incident or from mythological texts. The Lord of the Rings is a big "what if" experiment, Tolkien's take on how a genuine British mythology could take shape.

All races and creatures in mythology are symbolic for human tendencies. Tolkien-Elves are probably supposed to be an isolation of all that is "high" in the human psyche, while the dwarves could represent more base elements. Ents might be humans as historically aware creatures, orcs humans as hunters/animals. Claiming dwarves are Russians is probably a result of how you or your teacher percieve Russians rather than what they actually represent. Try swapping the roles around: how about the Ents are Russians and not American? Contrary to modern Americans, they have a long history, their country is somewhat a fallen giant, they speak of the land itself as their mother... assigning attributes becomes a sorta random process. Though I don't doubt Tolkien's orcs are supposed to be perversions of Arabs or other peoples. Again, this is manufactured mythology, and the different and scary peoples beyond the border have a tendency to become demonized in folklore.

[xbxDaniel]

That is definitely a good point, but I gathered the representation of the ents being americans because of their choosing not to be a part of the war. At least until their home is attacked by the primary antagonists. It reminded me first of Pearl Harbor, but the way you describe their role it could be interpreted either way. It's just an interpretation anyways, his intent might have been he just wanted to write a cool story. The fact that I didn't know the ents were called ents shows how deep I'm into the show though.

[Guitar Woman]

Every accusation of LoTR being an allegory for something is complete bullshit. Tolkein even said that he didn't want to make LoTR have a subtext or author's message or any of that gay crap. >:

[pjalne]

Still, its function as myth, even as manufactured myth, is to be transferrable to our own situation. When you place the structure of a war over the narrative in LotR, you're giving meaning to what actually has no narrative purpose, and it helps you relate to it. One of the primary purposes of myth, movies, litterature and other cultural items is to depict conflict and resolution universally, so you can use it to make choices in your everyday life. So while Tolkien had no plan to make this an allegory on the war, it still works as a way to relate to what happened, if only subjectively.

Oh my god, I sound like a cunt when I'm discussing this shit. This has got to stop.

[Emu]

pjalne, let's go back to tryign to find the underlying subtext in Boston and Shaun.

[DamnthatDavid]

Cutting through all this College level mumbo jumbo, just got back from watching the Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, and it is a great book to movie adaption.

[executioneer]

all i know is that i saw a collection of all seven books and book #1 was the magicians nephew and i was like "wtf that's book 5 you n*ggers, put them in the right order" so the repopularizing of the chronicles of narnia has already started to piss me off >:

[Protoclown]

My roommate's got an old copy of all the books collected together in one volume and they placed that story first in that one too, so I don't think the movie is to blame for that one.

[Ninjavenom]

Mine goes: Magician's Nephew, lion/witch/wardrobe, horse and his boy, prince caspian, dawn treader, silver chair, last battle.

[Jeanette X]

I read all the Narnia books as a kid, and I frankly don't care if its got Christian symbolism. Its still enjoyable, and this movie looks like a pretty good adaptation.

I saw an live action adaptation of The Silver Chair when I was a kid. I can't remember if it was any good though.

[GADZOOKS]

I'm rooting for the lion, but I bet the wardrobe wins.

[Slinky Ferret]

In regards to Lord of The Rings, I don't think Tolkien was relating it to WWII, he was relating it to the changes of the world. He was existing in a time where machines were taking over, where countryside was being destroyed.

Anyway, Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were professors at university together at one of the best universities in England. I think they both lectured in English mainly but both had a love for mythology. LOTR was written by Tolkien because he'd invented a language and decided to have a story to fit around it.

C.S. Lewis wrote the Narnia series for children. At first glance, when you are a child, its a fasinating story of good and evil, of betrayal, sacrifice, family and friends. All of the books cover topics that can be difficult to explain at times, yet I love reading the books, they may not be the academic challenge of LOTR, but they make me happy. If you read the stories again, when a little older, they are still those fasinating stories that you read when you were younger, but you begin to see the hidden depths. I recommend The Last Battle in particular or The Silver Chair.

The fact remains, C.S. Lewis was a christian and he has written some excellent books such as The Screwtape Letters and The Great Divorce, which are good to get you thinking. However, I feel that the story of TLTWATW gives an interesting perspective on the very basic elements of christianity without all the politics and hangups that are present today and in regards to that I think Lewis has combined an excellent story with an underlying theme that relates to christianity but you can choose to see it that way or not.

[Immortal Goat]

Exceptional movie. Aslan was awesome, the animals looked great, even when they talked. The acting was great, the effects were awesome, and even with the Christian overtones, I didn't care. It didn't matter at all that Aslan was obviously a Christ figure. Hell, Artie, the Strongest Man in the World could be viewed as a Christ figure.

So, yeah, GO SEE THIS FUCKING MOVIE!

P.S. I like it better than Harry Potter, and that is saying something.

[Emu]

It got better towards the end, but the beginning drew on for a fucking hour. >:

[Protoclown]

I enjoyed it, and the talking animals weren't really as silly as I feared they would be. I've never read the books.

[mburbank]

I thought it rocked, and Tilda was AWESOME!

I also was very impressed that the allegory aspect was peddled no harder nor softer than the book. It was treated with respect. C.S. Lewis is a very readable and impressive theologian and it's not as if the New Testament isn't as good a story to reference as Shakespeare or Norse mythology or any other damn thing an author likes.

I do wonder what the reborn audience for "The Passion" is going to make of all the half naked Fauns and Buff Centaurs. If they think Harry Potter is a manual for Stanism, what must they make of all that pagan shit?

[Guitar Woman]

I saw it yesterday and thought it was great.

I didn't like the Witch's frozen dreadlocks though :x

[Royal Tenenbaum]

This ended up being a great movie! I was really surprised. The only problem was some wooden acting, but beyond that it was quite entertaining. The action was deftly handled, and Tilda Swinton was brillaint. They left a bit out from the book, but they covered it all quite well. I guess we will get a couple sequels now...

[Protoclown]

I agree that Tilda was brilliant, but so many of those outfits of hers were fucking horrible...though when she was wearing Aslan: :love HOTNESS :love

[AChimp]

Edmund and Susan were pussies for most of the movie. The little girl should have slapped some sense into them. >:

Awesome movie, though. :posh

[sadie]

entertainment weekly said tilda played marilyn manson's "personal jesus" for inspiration.

[Big Papa Goat]

what's up with stupid movie stars being inspired by Marilyn Manson?

[Royal Tenenbaum]

The original version of "Personal Jesus" by Depeche Mode is cool as it is. She should have used that!

[Ihach]

this was definitely a sweet movie once it got going, i especially liked the witch's wolf secret police

[Shyandquietguy]

I just watched it. Since I haven't jumped into the books at all yet, it seemed ok. Tilda was awesome as the witch. The animals were actually a bit surprising in quality. They did an awesome job with the creatures. Hell, when the thought of half-man half-animal creatures came up I was a bit scared that Kevin Sorbo would run out into the scene with a half-hearted guise of a reverse filming effect of him dancing with a leprechaun.

I laughed when they gave Peter a Neo-moment and had the subtle techno music at the beginning of the movie.

[nothing4buddha]

piece of shit.

[pjalne]

My problem with it was that there was no dramatic buildup on a character level. Not as far as the central characters are concerned, anyway. Peter just kinda drifts through the story, and when he has to rise to the occasion, he just kinda does. There is no Gethsemane, no inner demons to fight, no motivation. The guy is suposed to be our point of view into this whole story and the thing that ties the main plot together, and he's barely visible. Which maybe works for younger boys, they often like to have a bland central character they can project themselves into anyway, but gave me no reason to care.

The Lucy kid was awesome, though.

[Dole]

absolute fucking shite.

[DamnthatDavid]

I enjoyed it enough to go watch it again with the family,.

Liam Neeson is god. He been a Jedi, a ninja, a knight, a Nazi and now Christ in "Passion of the Aslan."