Why Nationalism?

[Kulturkampf]

I was recently asked the incredibly broad question... "Why are you a nationalist?" I tried to answer it. This is what I wrote:

Originally I was content with the title of Neo-Conservative, and bore that title for quite sometime, but as of about July of last year I started caring a lot less about economic conservatism -- one thing that motivated me was noting that some countries have the cards already stacked against them. You cannot ask a country whose natural resources consist of exotic timbers and bananas like Nicaragua to become free trade, give all of the banana ranching rights to Dole, and try to make money off of peasants harvesting exotic woods in the jungle and act like this is going to solve a much graver economic problem.

Nationalism is sort of the form of conservatism that practices a national capitalism or mercantilism or socialism in a sense, pending on each situation of the nation and what resources are brought to the table. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

NOTE: 'national Capitalism' as defined by Mao Tse-tung was capitalists that would put up tariffs on foreign states to try to harvest their own nations' economy better, which sometimes is a very appropriate economic tactic i. e. if you tax foreign liquor and make it more expensive, then domestic liquor manufacturers will actually have a job and ownt be driven out of competition, but sometimes in other market sectors like electronics, automanufacturing, etc. these domestic markets simply cannot compete with foreign producers because it is such a high end product.

I can see the great wonders of free trade for some nations, but planned economies have done economic miracles -- Japan in 1871 literally was living in the iron age. In 1872 the Mejji government started industrializing rapidly, and by 1905, their plan economy resulted in an Asian power defeating the Russians (!!!) and subsequently fighting a prolonged war against the world's sleeping giant (USA). Nazi Germany went from the most economically destitute country in Europe where currency literally was not worth what it was printed on, but when the NSDAP took control in 1933 and put Dr. Schacht at the helm of the economy, literally they had upwards of 20% GDP growth annually and by 3 September 1939, when Germany went to war with France and UK after invading Poland on 1 September, the Germans were more than ready to engage us in combat due to their planned economy.

I fundamentally disagree with some of the economics, and feel that it must be handled situationally.

Furthermore, my interests in nationalism have now become very clear as I have seen the reality of certain threats in the world. In Korea and USA, there are leftist nutjobs, everywhere, and many Koreans are giving up any sense of a Korean identity. I merely thought that Americans collectively never had an identity, but when I saw things here, it become extraordinarily scary.

Countries are killing their individual identities, and international leftism is taking root basically everywhere. There must be a cultural struggle, on an international level, to combat European leftism -- the concepts of right and wrong are being turned upside down and being replaced with moral relativity, stagnant culture, and suicide of national identity and self-esteem.

The things that are happening are disgusting.

Nationalist is a more appropriate title because on issues concerning the environment and the economy, I am not at all a textbook conservative, as with issues on education and what have you. I feel that schools should be run entirely differently and morality should be taught, ethics should be at the forefront. I feel government should fund cultural events.

Nationalist is also more appropriate because all of my largest issues pertain to fighting the European leftists and their international counterparts; they are trying to bring down the fabric of every single culture and society through some bizarre post-modern metrosexual morally relative orgy of idiocy.

I think that the culture of the Left wing is a culture of defeatism, a culture without real morals, a culture that tries to castrate men and make everything politically correct.

I am working with a guy right now and we might make some documentaries in English about some hot, Korean political issues and the threat of Korea losing the culture war, or try to produce some writings on it in English to promote Korean nationalism.

I do want to note that I feel every single countrie's struggle for maintainng national identity and integrity against the influx of leftist culture is a reflection of what we have to do on a greater level, and that by informing other Nationalists around the world about the struggles of Korea, people would understand what we are facing exactly.
--

This is a New Nationalism. Before, Nationalism did mean sole allegiance and interest in one's own nation and often came off as outright imperialism.

Now, the state of the world has become so grave in its' self-destruction of culture, identity, and morality that Nationalism means organizing a society to protect its' most vital interests and preserve the uniqueness and beauty of their state.

Each Nationalist group has different goals it needs to tackle, but there is one, underlying principal that has to be upheld: that the Nation is an institution of the people to create a better society that is servicable to its' citizens -- it is the vehicle of the identity and culture of a people, and it should be treated as such.

Through Nationalism, we can restore identities of people, have ethics taught in our schools so kids grow up with backbones, and we can organize ourselves to deal with what it means to be a modern person living in a time of decadence and relativity.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

"New Nationalism"??? What a novel idea!!

[Kulturkampf]

How do you propose cultural decay is solved?

[mburbank]

Well, first I'd say that letting you personally define what Kultural DeKay is would be a serious mistake.

My 'ancestors' came to America from Czarist Russia where they were subject to discrimination and violent ethnic cleansing. We have a strong family tradition of socialism and trade unionism.

I don't see a lot of 'Leftists Nutjobs' here in the America that sort of voted for Bush twice. Those that I do see are marginalized to the point of absurdity.

What exactly is the "American National Identity" that you see, and what is it you think is threatening it?

My feeling is that as a very young country in a state of constant flux, we don't have much of a national identity and our constant crowing 'U.S.A, U.S.A!" "We're number one!" postureing is kind of silly. I think we might want to wait and see if we last a half century before we get so arrogant, but that's just me.

Nevertheless, I think we have the seeds of a national identity. Here's how I see it. Individulaism: Very important. It means that your personal view of the American national Identity is no more important than mine, and I could give a crap what you think it is. Freedom of Speech. I want to talk about (or even have a parade about) homo love, tolerance, interacial breeding, same sex parents, Abortion just cause it's fun, Tough for you. When I publicly talk about things I want to, I am EMBRACING the national identity by excercising my FREE SPEECH. The flip side is I accept your right to be the alchoholic numb nuts you are as long as you don't have your fights in my yard. Another part of the National Identity is Freedom of religion. Hindu, Muslim, Jew, Christian, Zoroastrian, Goofy ass Wiccan, Voodoo whatever, come on down and do what you do. You want prayer in school, okay, but I think church nd state ought to be seperate (part of the National Identity) and if you insist on it, since Freedom of Religion is part of the national Identity you better make time for my kid to do some serious bull killing, blood painting, screaming, writhing Mithrain rituals in homeroom, beause while I'm a Unitarian, my kid is recognizing his Amercian National Identity through worshipping the white bull.

I'm guessing that you have a more narrow idea of what our National Identity is, and it features folks like you getting to enforce it, but before you do, hows about you make SOME effort to figure out what it is and reconcile your love of pubic drunken brawling with 'traditional' christian values. Mythical visions of Huns/Vikings on Horseback, drinking and laughing and loving and fucking and fighting and loving their animals? Deeply rooted to a land their ancestors never set foot on? What Amercia is your Nationalism from?

Why not replace"Nationalism" with "Do whatever the fuck I want-ism and you have to do what I want to-ism". You're just another guy who thinks whatever gives him a hard on comes is a message from God about the way the whole world ought to be. Just because the things I value aren't loud music, face bashing and drunkeness doesn't mean I don't have values and only a blind drunken fuck would think that it did. I'm sure a lot of barbarians were violent idiots, were but not every violent idiot is a barbarian. Love that, KrystalKnacht.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Well, first I'd say that letting you personally define what Kultural DeKay is would be a serious mistake.

Yeah, thank you, Max. The reason I gave such a flip answer is because KrystalLight's definition of what constitutes as "cultural decay" seems a bit obtuse.

Teddy Roosevelt proposed a "New Nationalism" in the early 20th Century, but it consisted of fighting corporate greed, preserving our national wildlife, and creating fair economic opportunity for all. He was, btw, a Republican.

Go read TR's New nationalism platform. But be warned, a lot of it will sound too "leftist nutjob" for your taste. I'd personally rather take his view on nationalism over your vague and emotional one, but to each his own.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

You can read it here. (http://www.edheritage.org/1910/pridocs/1910roosevelt.htm)

[Kulturkampf]

We are too young to know what the national identity was, and through constant bombardment of immigration and subsequently being immediately thrown into the age of mass media, it is hard to develop any idea of what we are in such an overly individualized, compartmented society.

And I do not think forms of socialism are so wrong at all, being that at the time of Roosevelt was the time of men like Jacob Riis who were documenting the complete poverty in the cities and even countryside with our dust farmers throughout the central part of America. I also have no qualms with environmentalism from the view that Pres. Roosevelt had.

However, I am against Communists and people who think that poverty is an excuse and that it is okay to be dependent on a government hand out.

I hate Communists and leftists, and I hate people who do not believe in concrete foundations of truth.

I hate you.

[Jeanette X]

I hate people who do not believe in concrete foundations of truth.

I hate you.

So let me get this straight...you hate us because we don't eagerly accept your little writings as the absolute gospel truth?

[ScruU2wice]

the answer to your question is, so you can be the villian in a die hard movie or the next season of 24

[Zhukov]

However, I am against Communists and people who think that poverty is an excuse and that it is okay to be dependent on a government hand out.



Poverty is an excuse for what?

Also, communists don't believe that it is okay to be dependent on government handouts. So...

[Pub Lover]

KK seems to think people on Welfare are Communists, it was probably something his Dad said one time when Taxes went up.

[mburbank]

"We are too young to know what the national identity was, and through constant bombardment of immigration and subsequently being immediately thrown into the age of mass media, it is hard to develop any idea of what we are in such an overly individualized, compartmented society. "

So... You don't know what the national identity was, you don't know what it is, but you're a nationalist. Since we are both young and not the indigenous people of America, can I assume you think the American national identity which you are a nationalist in favor of is European?

How long at a time do you stay sober for? 'Cause I can't tell if you are truly a disordered mind, or just drunk.

Just what do you think 'Leftism' is? I get that you ate communists, but as a nationalist, why do you care? The tiny vestigial communist party in America is beyond pathetic. It seems to me you care far more about your concept of other countries national identity than your own, and I would think most foreign nationalists would be less then overjoyed about a foreigner protecting his concpet of their national identity.

You have this vast, freefloating anger and agression, and you feel determined to assign it to something. That's a totally natural human predicament. But it doesn't make ou a glorious oiled barbarian hero.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'm not a big fan of Communism either, but government handouts rule!

Ask the airline industry.

[mburbank]

I'm not rich enough or poor enough for a government handout, frowny emoticon.

[The One and Only...]

How do you propose cultural decay is solved?

It's not the problem: it's the liberation.

[Spectre X]

It's the shut your god damned mouth you stupid hot topic nerd.

[Emu]

How do you propose cultural decay is solved?

It's not the problem: it's the liberation.

Can we drop the doucheries, please?

[sadie]

spectrex made me hehe.

[Kulturkampf]

However, I am against Communists and people who think that poverty is an excuse and that it is okay to be dependent on a government hand out.



Poverty is an excuse for what?

Also, communists don't believe that it is okay to be dependent on government handouts. So...

Poverty as excuse for failure and subsequent crime, drug addiction, alcoholism, etc.

Communist ideology stems from the notion that the worker is exploited and his labor is robbed of him by the capitalist. That is an inappropriate ideology. They talk about how man is weak and enslaved in a capitalist state -- I think it is similar in some ways to the above.

[Kulturkampf]

"We are too young to know what the national identity was, and through constant bombardment of immigration and subsequently being immediately thrown into the age of mass media, it is hard to develop any idea of what we are in such an overly individualized, compartmented society. "

So... You don't know what the national identity was, you don't know what it is, but you're a nationalist. Since we are both young and not the indigenous people of America, can I assume you think the American national identity which you are a nationalist in favor of is European?

I think the American national identity was probably very existet after the civil war and until the immigration influx of the 1890s, at which point these concepts became diluted.

I do not want much to do with anything modern and European.

How long at a time do you stay sober for? 'Cause I can't tell if you are truly a disordered mind, or just drunk.

I think the disorder comes from your own mind.

Just what do you think 'Leftism' is? I get that you ate communists, but as a nationalist, why do you care? The tiny vestigial communist party in America is beyond pathetic. It seems to me you care far more about your concept of other countries national identity than your own, and I would think most foreign nationalists would be less then overjoyed about a foreigner protecting his concpet of their national identity.

You have this vast, freefloating anger and agression, and you feel determined to assign it to something. That's a totally natural human predicament. But it doesn't make ou a glorious oiled barbarian hero.

It has to do with the fact that leftists are often apologists for the extreme left (which are as fellow travelers to the Communists), and the general moral relativism and pussism of the left wing makes me sick to my stomac.

I hate the excuses they give for promiscuous sex, drug abuse, homosexuality, etc. ad nauseum.

the ideology is of the weak.

[glowbelly]

i'm gonna go with drunk again

[AChimp]

I hate the excuses they give for promiscuous sex, drug abuse, homosexuality, etc. ad nauseum.

the ideology is of the weak.

Compared to enjoying sex with animals like you, huh? What excuse do the skinheads have to offer for that?

[mburbank]

I'm going to need you to define this brief post civil war pre 1890 American identity. A.) I still haven't heard you say what all that would be, and B.) Why would our National Character during this brief historic window, whatever it may have been, be our true national character as opposed to any of the other, longer held charcateristics before and after?

If you want to argue someplace like Korea, with a history thousands of years old, truly has a national charcater, I think the content might be debatable, but the idea that there might be one is pretty solid.

I think you have a severe case of identity anxiety.

"I hate the excuses they give for promiscuous sex, drug abuse, homosexuality, etc. ad nauseum. the ideology is of the weak."

Okay. I hate the excuses you give for alchohol abuse and public brawling. You romanticize them and paint them with Frank Frazetta's air brush. The ideology of the hooligan. Plus, you let a dog lick your weiner. What the hell is wrong with you? That's not what animal husbandry is, 4H Dropout, and it's NOT what peanut butter is for. George Washington Carver is going to rie from the grave and beat your face in, which you'll probably videotape and put on the web.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I'm going to need you to define this brief post civil war pre 1890 American identity. A.) I still haven't heard you say what all that would be, and B.) Why would our National Character during this brief historic window, whatever it may have been, be our true national character as opposed to any of the other, longer held charcateristics before and after?

Because we focused on the important things back then Max, like free silver, prohibtion, and stopping Irish immigrants. These are the values our nation was founded on.

[Kulturkampf]

I'm going to need you to define this brief post civil war pre 1890 American identity. A.) I still haven't heard you say what all that would be, and B.) Why would our National Character during this brief historic window, whatever it may have been, be our true national character as opposed to any of the other, longer held charcateristics before and after?

I think this period would be solidified because it was a time in which the ideals were well established through the abolition of slavery and freeing of all men (a point that haunted American history up to that point). Furthermore, America was spreading from sea to sea and the frontier was established. America could be viewed as a very independent, forward thinking nation based strongly on free individuals carving out a way of life for themselves.

People were not dependent on the government, and people generally had a philosophy of live and let live to the point where Teddy Roosevelt, while in North Dakota living as a cowboy, witnessed a man pulled from his bed and beaten terribly -- as he tried to intervene, everyone grabbed him and pulled him off, and said "Whatever this man did, it is between those two."

I think really... There was a hearty pioneer spirit and extreme manifestations of individualism, though not in a modern sense of Ayn Rand, but rather in the sense of a frontier and a people founding a nation.

If you want to argue someplace like Korea, with a history thousands of years old, truly has a national charcater, I think the content might be debatable, but the idea that there might be one is pretty solid.

True.

I think you have a severe case of identity anxiety.

I do not think about those things -- I do not think about your psychology. I do not know who you are.

"I hate the excuses they give for promiscuous sex, drug abuse, homosexuality, etc. ad nauseum. the ideology is of the weak."

Okay. I hate the excuses you give for alchohol abuse and public brawling. You romanticize them and paint them with Frank Frazetta's air brush. The ideology of the hooligan. Plus, you let a dog lick your weiner. What the hell is wrong with you? That's not what animal husbandry is, 4H Dropout, and it's NOT what peanut butter is for. George Washington Carver is going to rie from the grave and beat your face in, which you'll probably videotape and put on the web.

LOL. I knew you would get a kick out of it.

I guess I am rather a hypocrite.

[Kulturkampf]

I cannot write philosophies or words anymore coherently, because the ideas that I have cannot fit into words. There are no proper words to describe the Nationalist feelings. But I can try to explain a general thought process. Here are a few concepts vital to Nationalism.

(1) Man is weak without his nation. He is divided and incapable of actual progress. He has to depend on himself or a small clan to scrounge by. He is incapable of real progress because the economy is too narrow [no room for specialized jobs on mass scales, let alone technological development], there is a lack of true security due to the perpetual threat of other tribes and clans (or individuals).

(2) A nation is weak without unity. Any nation that lacks a national identity and a national direction, any nation that proceeds without a viable goal in mind, is a nation that is not fit to compete with others who do have a national direction and unity.

In WWII it did not matter how large China was in comparison to Japan. Because of a total lack of national unity and a war between Communists and loyalists and ethnic division between Manchurians, proper Chinese, Xin-jiang peoples, etc. there was no comprehensive fight against the Japanese, though the Chinese nation's potential was far greater due to richer resources and numbers.

(3) Unity is rooted in common culture, values, history, and customs. Nations like India have been historically weak because, historically, i ti snot a nation but rather a collection of independnet peoples on the subcontinent and only recently has there been an attempt to carve a national identity, yet it is daunting.

Unity can be rooted in values, as often we see an United American front in the name of the higher values of the American people (that motivated American war-fighting prior to Viet Nam). Even if a nation is divided by values, values that are polar opposities, it is true that there is even still a sense of national unity (take Korea as an example -- there is no question about the division of values, but at the same time no question about a desire for unity on both sides).

These three principals make up the corps of what a Nationalist ideology is based on, and they urge a nation to become more united and move towards a national goal. Some goals are temporary, such as a national struggle for liberation of imperialists or such as a national struggle for the destruction of a foreign power, but certain goals are eternal such as the achievement of a better economy and a more comfortable lifestyles.

Thus, a Nationalist would encourage a unity amongst the people through a common culture and value system, as well as promote direct movement towards strong ideals.

The major problem that a Nationalist has with the contemporary nations is the same problem that destroyed Greece and Rome (as was observed by Will Durant). It was a lack of national unity that lead to the fall of the state and the general decadence of the nation.

The thoughts of the people became tolerant of deviance, and even generally practicing of deviance, from the culture and values of the people. Thus, when an alien force fought with the Romans the nation was unable to fight back -- there was no unity amongst the Roman people, and they could not be goaded into defending their own nation.

A strong nation cannot tolerate its' disunity. The cause of division does not matter, being that the end results always become the same: the diluting of the nation that threatens its' strengths.

It does not matter so much what a nation stands for, for the human being is a social creature, and it does not matter what he lives or stands for, but he cannot stand alone. In his solitude, he is weak, indignant, and unfulfilled -- living amongst animals. It is only through a family and a role in a society can he feel content.

Can a man feel content if his wife's attentions are divided amongst men? Can a man feel content if his children do not respect him?

Nor can a man feel content if his nation is divided, nor can a man feel content if his nation does not respect him.

A common virtue amongst a nation must be preserved, whether by heritage of the national offspawn or of education of the immigrant.

I do not believe that there is a better ideology than My Friends, and there is no better way to live than My Way, and there is nothing else to take pride in except for My Own.

Nationalism is a unique ideology because subscription to it is not necessarily a subscription to an economic platform or necessarily a political platform; nationalism is embodied in the simple guidance of the nation towards whichever is most beneficial.

Sometimes a Nationalist is a socialist, and sometimes a Capitalist. Soemtimes a Nationalist believes there must be a single, strong, unifying leader to guide the nation (such as no longer having elections during America's WWII, or such as Park Jung-hee in Korea), and at other times a democracy (both of these nations restored the national ideals after the war was essentially won).

It is a simple philosophy that as a united state, we must take action to remain united and not fragment, and to furthermore promote only ideologies logically and practically beneficial to ourselves.

That is why I dislike the people who promote moral relativism, and feel we must abolish social standards. A nation that does not have agree'd conventions and values to live by is not united, and is displaying the signs of rotting.

National unity ought to be restored in countless states (i think that Europe is most sore, but I have never been, I just judge from the news).

Your nation will fall apart if you do not support its' heritage, its' values, its' customs. It is like your wife no longer loving you or your children no longer respecting you -- it is a nation that has abandoned you and went the course of Greece and Rome, and is merely waiting for the other nations that do have values and national direction to inherit the power.

[Spectre X]

You are so incredibly tiresome.

[mburbank]

"The thoughts of the people became tolerant of deviance, and even generally practicing of deviance, from the culture and values of the people."
-KillyKonka

By deviance, do you mean public drunkenessm brawling and oral sex with dogs, or are you thinking of other sorts of deviance?

You're like every muddy headed bully boy, in the name of the Nation and greater good you want ethical standards applied to other people. Clean up your own house, drunky O'blown-by-a-dog. Take a moment or two off from congratulating yourself on your wonderfullness and look in a mirror. If our Nation didn't countenance deviance there would be absolutely no place for you in it.

Oh, and when TR wants to break up a fight and a bunch of townfolk who don't even know what it's about won't let him? That's bad. You are siding with a mob over fucking Teddy Roosevelt you inane cunt!

"I cannot write philosophies or words anymore coherently, because the ideas that I have cannot fit into words."
-KloisKlane

No, no, no, no, no. It's not a matter of how grand your philosiphy is, it's a matter of what a bad writer you are and how messy your thought process is. You've obviosuly read some stuff, you've obviosuly synthesized some of it. Stop binge drinking, stop encouraging people to hit you in the head (which by the way contains your brain, numbnuts) and I guarantee your ability to express your thoughts will improve. AND you may find that if you sober up and stop incurring brain damage you may think things through to conclussion and find yourself embracing less childish, violent, philosiphies. I don't say you would, I'm just saying as long as you stay on the track you're on, you have no more idea what you actually believe then the drunk behind Safeway bawling about the Chinese beaming microwave orders into his head and peeing himself.

AND DON'T MAKE A DOG BLOW YOU! Did that dog find you attractive? Did that dog have a relationship with you? NO! That dog wanted some peanut butter, and you exploited it's simple dog nature. BAD deviant! BAD! BAD! NO TREATS!

[kahljorn]

"because the ideas that I have cannot fit into words."
"There are no proper words to describe the Nationalist feelings."

Lol, "No words to describe" "Feelings" "Nationalist feelings".

[Dr. Boogie]

I cannot write philosophies or words anymore coherently, because the ideas that I have cannot fit into words. There are no proper words to describe blahblahblahblahblahblah

Ok, new board rule: self-indulgent, personal philosophy posts are now limited to 6 lines or less.

[mburbank]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Yeah, this guy seems to have plenty of time to get drunk and have people punch him in the face. Then he uses the rest of his time to write skinhead hallmark cards.

THIS IS A POOR USE OF MY TAX DOLLARS!

[Zhukov]

Nations are confined to the epoch of capitalism, not ancient greece or rome.

I'd argue with you more about communism, but I don't have the time to waste my fingers on deaf eyes.