Are we now in a countdown to war with Iran?

[mburbank]

Seymour Hirsch says so, and his investigative record has been pretty close to A+ these last few years.

Check out this quote

"For months, I have told interviewers that no senior political or military official was seriously considering a military attack on Iran. In the last few weeks, I have changed my view," he went on. "In part, this shift was triggered by colleagues with close ties to the Pentagon and the executive branch who have convinced me that some senior officials have already made up their minds: They want to hit Iran."
-Joseph Cirincione, a nuclear proliferation specialist at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (CEIP) last week.

and

"In recent months, I have grown increasingly concerned that the administration has been giving thought to a heavy dose of air strikes against Iran's nuclear sector without giving enough weight to the possible ramification of such action,"
Wayne White, State Department's top Middle East analyst until 2005, in an articl in The Forward (Repected Jew newspaper)

Dicky gave a major policy speech about Iran just recently. Condi said Iran wa the foremost global threat. Its starting to sound familliar.

Time to weigh in I-mockers. Is W going to strike Iran? How hard? When? Do you think he should? Is it just a negotiating ploy, hey, look out Iran, that W is KUH-RAZY and he really wants to use some nukes before he leaves office?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I tend to believe (and hope) that we do not do that. I think there's still a great deal of room for diplomacy and negotiation with Iran.

But yeah, I think we might bomb their nuclear sites.

[mburbank]

I also think there is a great deal of room for diplomacy. Five years, minimum.

But I think the question is more like, does W think we should do this? Because as commander in chief, at least at the very begining of things, his is the only vote that counts.

[Pharaoh]

I'm 99% sure he won't nuke Iran. He's just using the fact that he might, and that you can't rule it out altogether, to put pressure on them. And why not?

It would be kind of glorious if he actually did order an attack though, because they probably really think he wouldn't dare. And it would be entertaining to see their reaction. I'm bored of Iraq now.

By the way, I think you should edit the title of this topic to say Iran, we've already done Iraq.

[Geggy]

Iran, Iraq, it's all the same to Bush.

Recommended (but long) reading, written by one of the few sane conversavtives...

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr040506.htm

[mburbank]

Just what I was about to say. But it was my mistake, neither intentional or ironic, and I've changed it.

'Glorius'?

Maybe, if the Iranians decided it might be funny to do absolutely nothing in retaliation. Otherwise it would be costly, stupid, and tragic. Oh, wait, it would be all those things even if they didn't retaliate. The Iranian people would probably greet us as liberators though, so it would all work out in the end.

[Preechr]

A Neo-Con I know told me Iranian flowers and candy are really nice.

[Geggy]

Bush and Rummy both have denied they were making any plans to strike Iran but then who can ever take their words for anything in these days. They're probably threatening Iran by using media as scare tactic as part of psychological warfare to prevent them from building nuke. If that doesn't work and Iran "won't cooperate" as Condi puts it that way, then their struggle to build democracy will be set even further back to 1000 years as soon as they get nuked. At least the US will have a place to dump the old, cluster nuclear bombs before they start building 125 new ones.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

A Neo-Con I know told me Iranian flowers and candy are really nice.

......to bomb!

HAHAHAheh.....oh, not funny. :(

[ranxer]

seems like the tactic most used by the administration is escallation, escallation of violence, degradation, debt and fear. I think keeping enemies growing is part of the plan especially to keep the motherland so fearful they won't organize a democratic backlash against the corporate government.

that said, the latest de-escallation of reasons to attack iran has been the delay of the Iranian Oil Bourse(they missed the march plan to open the new market), if or when they start trading oil in some currency other than the dollar our corporate government will strike. same reason we invaded Iraq when we did, but of course it wasn't really in the news.


http://www.energybulletin.net/12125.html
II. Iranian Oil Bourse

The Iranian government has finally developed the ultimate “nuclear” weapon that can swiftly destroy the financial system underpinning the American Empire. That weapon is the Iranian Oil Bourse slated to open in March 2006. It will be based on a euro-oil-trading mechanism that naturally implies payment for oil in Euro. In economic terms, this represents a much greater threat to the hegemony of the dollar than Saddam’s, because it will allow anyone willing either to buy or to sell oil for Euro to transact on the exchange, thus circumventing the U.S. dollar altogether. If so, then it is likely that almost everyone will eagerly adopt this euro oil system:

see also http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA410A.html

[Chojin]

It would be entertaining to see their reaction. I'm bored of Iraq now.
What's it like to be a member of a mindless horde?

[mburbank]

Or the child of a mindless whore!

Oh DON'T tell me not to go there, because that is where I went. Only a Jew, with their nturally selected humor skills that have sifted down to the genetic level could have thought of that joke! ONLY A JEW!!!

[Pharaoh]

Yeah and a Jew, with his naturally selected poor fighting skills would only dare say it on an internet forum. :die

[mburbank]

Why is the angry emoticon killing you?

And only mongrel would think threatening someone on the internets was even mildly meaningful. How do I know you're not a spastic dwarf? But you jjust keep imp[lying that you could best me in a hitting each other match. It's your mongrel way.

[Pharaoh]

I'm not threatening you, I just don't believe you'd dare say that to my face.

[Ant10708]

Well we will never find out so shut the fuck up pharaoh.

[mburbank]

I think it might depend on what your face was attached to. I'd have to pull it out of your ass and see what the whole package looked like. I think regardless of what you looked like I'd be as hppy to tell you as any Moron who treats "the Bell Curve" with respect and feels all put upon as a white man in the modern world that

A.) I think they're wrong.

B.) I think they're not thinking very much

and

C.) I think people who deep down believe their race is superior to another race and are to ashamed to come out and say it and instead hide behind fourth rate scholarship are cowards.

As Ant so cleverly pointed out, we'll never know. Here's a heads up, in case you mised it. YOU ARE ON THE INTERNET.

[Pharaoh]

As Ant so cleverly pointed out, we'll never know.

I know.

[mburbank]

OKAY, THAT'S IT, LETS THROW DOWN YOU PUSSY!

Oh, you can't 'cause it's the internets. I guess that means you'd be CHICKEN TO FACE UP TO ME IN REAL LIFE! I'd beat your ass so bad you wouldn't be able to tell it from your face! You'd run like a monkey, you poncy tea bag! I'm AMURICAN and the sun ain't set on OUR empire yet! If not for us you'd all be heiling Hiter and naming your kids Heinz by now and don't you forget it!

You need a good old fashoned yankee style beating. USA! USA! Send you runnin' to your purple faced, raging 'form leader'.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Maybe we could start a scholarship fund for Pharaoh. The "bring Pharaoh to the states to get his face smashed" fund.

He'd really "drop a clanger" then, eh!?

[Pharaoh]

:chatter I'm shaking in my boots, butwank.

[mburbank]

Really? 'Cause that's just what I was doing before, when you were all "This is what you'd do if this was real"! Up in my grill an' all, all manly like some purple faced, butch teacher in rage, I was, like, shaking in my boots!

I'd use that emoticon, but I'm pretty comnfortable expressing myself with words, on account of my genetically enhanced IQ.

[Pharaoh]

Q: Whats transparent and lies in the gutter?


A: Butwank with the shit kicked out of him!

:lol2

[mburbank]

I'm shaking in my boots!

[Geggy]

Is this why you won't make fun of me, max? Cuz we both live in within few miles of one and other and pharoah's in somewhere half way around the world? You know I would never come to your house to beat the shit out of you and your family, even though I can easily find out where you live in the phone book. Are you shaking in your boots now? Heh. No matter how much you'd poke fun at me, you're never going to piss me off. But I wonder if this has to do anything with our lack of buffer-zone that gets you shaking in your boots. Heh. Just checkin.

[mburbank]

That's pretty much it.

I don't make fun of you because even though I think you are off the wall whacko some of the time, I think your heart is in the right place.

People might notice that I only target people who I think have something pissy about them that begs to be needled. You aren't particularly pompous, you don't seem to be a big 'ol bag of hate, so where would be the fun in making sport of you?

Also, you might be insane. I've heard that sometimes insane people have the strength of ten. Lucky for me KrytoKlam is in Korea. Phagroah is not insane he's just a pompous bag of hate.

[Pharaoh]

I'd rather be full of hate than full of shit.

[VolCanon]

I really hope they don't. Just look at the mess Iraq is in exclusively because of the Americans.

[mburbank]

It's sad shit or hate are your only two choices of what to be full of. I think it must be your geneticaly mandated IQ. It keeps you simple.


Experts: Iran's Boast May Mean Little
AP - 2 hours, 28 minutes ago

CAIRO, Egypt - Iran's boast that it has joined "the club of nuclear countries" by enriching uranium may rattle the Western world. But diplomats and experts familiar with the program say Iran still is far from producing any weapons-grade material needed for bombs and may be exaggerating its own progress.

[Pharaoh]

It's even sadder that you've only got one choice of what to be full of. Shit. And it looks like Iran's full of it too.

[mburbank]

Great comeback! Laughing emoticon!

So do you think we should go to war with a country that's "full of shit" just for the 'glory'?

[Pharaoh]

Well I didn't say Iran should be attacked for the 'glory', I said it would glorious if Bush ordered an attack. Like a glorious sunset, a glorious sight, wonderful. But if they're just bullshitting, there's not much point in nuking them anyway.

[mburbank]

you are a glorius idiot.

[Pharaoh]

you are a glorius idiot.

Nice irony, butwank. It's spelled glorious, with an 'o'.

Type it out 100 times. I never want to see it spelled wrong again by you, ever.:explode

[mburbank]

glorius glorius glorius glorius glorius glorius glorius glorius etc, Dog boy.

Spelling is the fault I let God in through, Most cultures recognize God is affronted by perfection. You are what society let God in through.

[Geggy]

HAH. I actually laughed at your post, max. Thanks for the honesty

Several people who wants to strike Iran are saying the nukes could be built in 16 days but nuclear analysts claimed it could take Tehran 10+ years. So yeah I believe it could be built in 10 yers and not 16 days so I'm convinced it's all about the oil. Uranium is code word for oil heh.

[mburbank]

See, I think it's less complicated. I think maybe for your Wolfowitzs and Pearls it's about oil as a hedge on world dominance. I think myabe once it was that way for Cheney. But now I think Cheney just wants to kill people the way he's used to killing birds, and W thinks God is telling him to conquer the evil doers his daddy wasn't man enough to.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Several people who wants to strike Iran are saying the nukes could be built in 16 days but nuclear analysts claimed it could take Tehran 10+ years. So yeah I believe it could be built in 10 yers and not 16 days so I'm convinced it's all about the oil. Uranium is code word for oil heh.

"So I choose to believe the longer time table because I hate the Bush administration and i watch Oliver Stone movies."

[Geggy]

Ha, very funny. It appears you have skewed perception of how I think or it's just wishful thinking.

I choose to believe in nuclear analysts with experience than that lying scumbag Bush whom I have great mistrust in.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

And if there's one thing we know about you, it only takes one (insert supposed expert, such as a physicist or an engineer) to sum things up for you.

[Johnny Couth]

Hasn't Ahmadinejad said multiple time that he will see America in a sea of flames. Those are good old fashioned fighting words.

[Geggy]

And if there's one thing we know about you, it only takes one (insert supposed expert, such as a physicist or an engineer) to sum things up for you.

Anyone who were paying attention to pre invasion of Iraq and the fact Bush bs'd about WMD will clearly see they're using similiar tactic they're using now to justify the strike on Iran. It's a crying shame you haven't learned anything and yet continue to swallow it for the second time.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Geggy, I don't want to invade Iran.

Geggy, if we were to invade Iran, it wouldn't be over oil.

Geggy, you shouldn't believe everything you read and hear.

[mburbank]

But if we happened to invade Iran and made a huge mess out of it, failure would no longer be an option and we'd have to stay until they had a stable democracy up and running, right?

I don't think this current gang of fuck ups should be allowed to even toy with the idea. Donald Rumsfeld is still secretary of defense! Tennet has a medal of freedom around his neck! The current administration shouldn't have a drivers liscence, let alone control of the armed forces.

Part of the problem is that as an administration, they have no credability at all, so it's impossible to assess the current level of threat from Iran. The BEST slant you could take is that W as a CEO leader has consistently rewarded failure. If a bus plunge is unavoidable, I want a new driver first.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

No, we should simply bomb the hell out of them and leave, because that's what a responsible liberal would do. :)

That certainly wouldn't bite us in the ass, and in the long run, we'd be safer for it i'm sure.....

I agree that we shouldn't even entertain the idea of invading. There are far too many options right now to even jump the gun on that. Maybe Pharaoh is right, maybe it's just sabre rattling.

This administration unfortunately burned all its bridges in the way it handled Iraq, and would have no recourse but to invade completely alone, with the entire global community booing and hissing.

[mburbank]

I hope and pray the next Liberal who comes to power has fallen out of love with air campaigns, since they have never ever worked even one time. Probably not though.

[Geggy]

Kevin, I don't want to invade Iran either.

Kevin, you're right, it isn't about oil, it's not about uranium either...it's about profiteering.

Kevin, will you stop sayin' that already?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

i'm sorry, Geggy. I must've taken the blue pill. :(

[Geggy]

When you say blue pill, do you mean by cnn and wash. post?

Iran-Iraq II??
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/US_outsourcing_special_operations_intelligence_gat hering_0413.html

This article further shows why I think it's all about profiteering. People in the white house are probably setting up their retirement funds by inciting wars in the middle east because this could go on for the rest of their lifetime, thus assload of money will flow back home. People in the middle east are crazy enough to kill each other so why not arm them with weapons? Why not arm the people seeking protection with weapons? This will make Bush and his buddies very very rich. When there aren't many left of the people in the middle east, whoever survives can inherit the land and use up all the oil!

You guys really should see Lord of War with Nicolas Cage :(

[The One and Only...]

You better pray we don't attack Iran. Comparing Iraq to Iran would be like comparing a Corsica to a Benz.

[ItalianStereotype]

geggy, if you weren't so batshit this forum would be a much less interesting place.

[Abcdxxxx]

it's a fine film. it just doesn't have the one dimensional message you think it does geggy. in other words, oliver stone didn't direct it.

[ranxer]

damn i don't know why i come back here.. laughs i guess,
gotta give yas credit for often being hilarious.

regarding attacking iran...
profiteering surely, but still, as in iraq II, the conversion of the oil money into euros and other currencies instead of dollars is a huge reason for moving on Iran. Without the currency threat, i don't think we will attack them.

[ItalianStereotype]

is it a little too right wing for you here, ranxer? not enough matrix references?

[Abcdxxxx]

1)occupation is a physical impossibility.
2)a lot of countries have interest in getting their mitts on irans oil, but the us of a is at the back of that line.

[mburbank]

You shoud read the Hersch article. It's kind of chilling.

The occupation of Iraq wasn't/isn't really a physical possability either, (certainly not with thr troupe commitment we made) but there we are.

Hersch says there are strong factions in the administration that firmly beleieve if we bomb Iran for a good long time, the religous leaders will loose face and a unfified people will rise up and overthrow the government.

I think that's boobery. But it's just the kind of Boobery this adminsitration is in love with.

[Geggy]

Italian, I may be crazy but what am I supposed to do? I'm part lebanese. I've got the crazy people gene. Besides, with all the crazy shit going on in this world can you really blame me for going batshit?

ABCD, it's safe to say that zionists had nothing to do with the movie, either.

I was told by a friend who is currently attending UTI, a mechanic school, and he was told that "oil change every 3000 miles" is the currently biggest scam in auto industies, espcially for the newer car models. If you've gone past 3000 miles since the last oil change, the risk it poses to the car is very slim. The reason for the scam is it's helps auto industries and oil companies pull in a lot more moolah, obviously. It's true that older car models may needs oil change every 3000 miles. But newer car models, from 2000 to prresent specifically, can go on for at least 5,000 miles until the next oil change, because of the improvements made around the engine that takes in larger mass of cold air flow hence oil are burned off less. Oil ceo's know this and they're afraid to let the truth out purely for the fear of profit cuts. So why not let truth out and start drilling for oil in Alaska, instead of fighting in wars, putting the US economy at risk and sending the world into turmoil over somethingas diminutive as oil? Oh right, they put profits before people's lives. Of coiurse it never crosses the idiot mind of the oil-lord, Bush's that we could work something out to make us less dependable on oil and use the money that's spent on wars to build more hybrid automobiles.

[Abcdxxxx]

Burb - Unless David Copperfield works for the State Department, there's no way we can pull off that trifecta. It's a fool me once, fool me twice type of thing.

Rather then read prophetic insiders guess what we're planning for Iran, just keep an eye on what we're doing with Syria instead. In simple terms, Syria's next door to Iraq, they have a Baathist government, and Hizzballah are Iranian funded, groomed to create a second line of battle. Iran sent their ex-President out to Syria on Tuesday for a diplomacy trip.

The other thing - supposedly Iran's Neyshabour site was started in 2003, and it's a year away from nukes, hidden underground under farmland. A lot of these articles are focusing on Natanz.


geggy - i think it's safe to say "lord of war" has little if anything to do with zionism one way or another but you know, WE ARE EVERYWHERE AND WE DO CONTROL HOLLYWOOD. lefty as they may be, they're not spending millions marketing to socialist worker subscribers, now are they? i know you're working that "LORDS OF war.....LORDS OF ZION, get it? get it? Jewelry, JEWelry" angle into this, and you thought Lords of Dogtown was about a bunch of Heeb skateboarding bankers ....but newsflash, a story about a russian gentile smuggling weapons doesn't really offend my zionist sensiblities. the one scene portraying palestinians shows them being executed in lebanon....and since you're suddenly lebanese, you know you can take that up with the phallanges. oh but hey, how's that zionist curse i put on you coming along?

[ziggytrix]

My VW diesel is supposed to get its first services at 5,000 and 10,000 then again every 10,000 miles thereafter.

[Rez]

I'm not threatening you, I just don't believe you'd dare say that to my face.

:lol

[kahljorn]

You know just as a subtle remark because I think it's an interesting note:

From what I've heard automobiles that are hybrid, function off of natural gas or run off of those hydrogen fuel cells are ridiculously expensive to Fuel, produce and/or maintain(from what I understand all of those options except maybe the hybrid get shitty gas mileage). As such that makes Oil the most economically viable option, at the present.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107AP_Iran_Ahmadinejads_Ambition.html

Saturday, April 15, 2006 · Last updated 12:56 p.m. PT

Not all in Iran back president's rhetoric

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

TEHRAN, Iran -- Iran's success in producing enriched uranium for the first time may have increased national pride, but hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is annoying predecessors by claiming the achievement in his name alone.

And others, including some among the president's supporters, worry his tough rhetoric is intensifying international anxiety over the nuclear program and worsening the country's isolation.

On Tuesday, Ahmadinejad announced that Iran successfully enriched uranium using 164 centrifuges, a significant step toward the large-scale production of a material that can be used to fuel nuclear reactors for generating electricity - or to build atomic bombs.

Iran insists it is interested only in the peaceful use of nuclear power, but the United States and others suspect the regime wants to develop weapons and are demanding a halt to enrichment activities.

Since his announcement, Ahmadinejad has been even more defiant in defending his country's decision to press ahead with its nuclear program over the U.N. Security Council's objections.

Ahmadinejad rebuffed a request Thursday by Mohamed ElBaradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, that Iran suspend uranium enrichment, saying Tehran will not retreat "one iota."

To those upset by that stance, he said, "Be angry at us and die of this anger."

A day later, he turned up the heat in anti-Israel rhetoric that has brought international condemnation, calling the Jewish state a "rotten, dried tree" that will be annihilated by "one storm." He previously angered many world leaders by calling for Israel to be wiped off the map.

Such talk has some in this conservative Islamic nation concerned.

"The more Ahmadinejad confronts the international community, the more power he may show to his public in the short term but deny Iran a good life among world nations in the long term," said Hossein Salimi, a professor of international relations in Tehran.

For now, it's a minority opinion. The president's tough talk resounds with many Iranians.

"Ahmadinejad is a source of pride for resisting the U.S. and defending Iran's nuclear rights," said Ali Mahmoudi, a regular attendee of Friday prayers in this strongly religious nation.

Still, the president may have alienated potential allies with this enrichment announcement because he didn't cite former Iranian leaders or thank them for their efforts in the program.

"Ahmadinejad spoke as if production of enriched uranium was his work. He didn't mention that it was the outcome of more than two decades of clandestine work by previous governments," said political analyst Saeed Leilaz.

In an apparent show of displeasure, ex-president Hashemi Rafsanjani tried to take some of the glory from Ahmadinejad by announcing the enrichment step several hours ahead of time.

Reformist Mohammad Khatami, who preceded Ahmadinejad as president, publicly reminded Iranians that the nuclear achievement was "the outcome of efforts by competent Iranian scientists, a process that had begun by previous governments."

Even some of Ahmadinejad's supporters are starting to question his tactics.

"Ahmadinejad has forgotten why he won the presidential vote. The needy voted for him because he promised to bring bread to people's homes but nothing good has been done to improve living standards," said Reza Lotfi, a student at Tehran University.

Mansour Ramezanpour, a construction worker, questioned why the government hasn't done more for the weak economy.

"Previously, I went to work four days a week. Now, not more than two days. Recession is everywhere," he said.

But Ahmadinejad appears determined to make the most of the nuclear card to bolster his standing among his people. It was no coincidence that he announced Iran had enriched uranium on April 9 - the date that the United States severed ties with Iran in 1980.

He and other top leaders see the nuclear program as a level to get the United States to recognize Iran as a "big, regional power" and deal with it on that basis.

"The key problem between Iran and the U.S. is that Washington treats Iran as a non-grownup person. The Iranian leadership is very unhappy with this. Tehran wants America to treat Iran as a regional superpower," Leilaz said.

On Wednesday, Ahmadinejad sent a clear message that Iran expected to be treated as a peer.

"Today, our situation has changed completely. We are a nuclear country and speak to others from the position of a nuclear country," he said.