NYC bans trans fats

[KevinTheOmnivore]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2006-12-04-trans-fat-ban_x.htm

New York becomes first city to ban trans fats
Updated 12/5/2006 4:16 PM ET
By Charisse Jones, USA TODAY

NEW YORK — New York today became the first city in the United States to prohibit trans fats in restaurants, a shift that will affect eateries from the corner deli to the brasserie and ultimately may influence how food is prepared at restaurants around the nation.
The city's board of health unanimously approved the ban, which takes effect July 1. It will bar trans-fat-laden oils and shortenings used for frying and spreads such as margarine that contain the artery-clogging ingredient.

Bakeries and restaurants will have until July 1, 2008 — an additional 12 months — to replace trans fats in baked goods such as pie crusts and deep-fried desserts such as doughnuts because it may take more time to find other products that achieve the same texture, health commissioner Thomas Frieden said.

"We know trans fats increase the chance for heart attack, stroke and death, and they don't have to be there," Frieden said. The new rules are "going to make New Yorkers live longer and healthier lives."

The ban will not apply to food served in a manufacturer's original packaging or to foods that contain less than 0.5 grams of trans fats per serving.

In addition to extending the phase-out of trans fats, health officials took other steps to help eateries comply with the changes, Frieden said.

The city will provide a product list and a help line. Additionally, there will be a three-month grace period at the start of both phases of the ban in which violators will not have to pay fines, which start at $200.

There are no plans to test foods for the banned ingredient. To enforce the law, however, inspectors will check labels, Frieden said.

Some restaurant representatives expressed disappointment, saying that even 18 months is too little time to find alternative products and modify recipes.

"It has taken restaurants that have changed two to three years to find alternatives, and the time limit that has been placed here is unrealistic," said Sheila Weiss, director of nutrition policy for the National Restaurant Association.

Charles Hunt, executive vice president of the New York State Restaurant Association, said a voluntary shift instead of a mandatory one would have been effective.

"The demand for the products is going to exceed the supply, and that's going to make it hard for restaurants to comply," said Hunt, adding that smaller eateries may have to raise prices and risk losing customers if trans-fat-free products cost them more. "The restaurant industry in New York is not going to go away based on this, but it doesn't make our jobs any easier."

Dan Fleshler, spokesman for the National Restaurant Association, said his organization will consider possible litigation to challenge the rules.

"We don't think it's a good precedent," he said. "We don't think a local municipal health body has any business banning a product the FDA has already approved."

Hunt agreed that the prohibition of a legal product was troubling.

"What's the next legal product the government says you can't serve — ice cream?" he asked. "It's a slippery slope."

Frieden said the board has the power to regulate the use of trans fats and added that it was unlikely other food ingredients would require such a ban.

"We're quite certain we'd be able to withstand any legal challenge if there were one," he said. "There is nothing else in our restaurant supply that has the kind of impact trans fats have … and can be replaced so easily."

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[FartinMowler]

I didn't know really what Trans fat was...I wonder what kind of foods you would have to eat to consume enough trans fats enough that it would affect your heath? I'm sure you eat enough things like wax/hair/animal feceas and such that could be a health hazard also.

rans fats occur naturally, in small quantities, in meat and dairy products from ruminants. Most trans fats consumed today, however, are industrially created as a side effect of partial hydrogenation of plant oils — a process developed in the early 1900s and first commercialized as Crisco in 1911. Partial hydrogenation changes a fat's molecular structure (raising its melting point and reducing rancidity) but this process also results in a proportion of the changed fat becoming trans fat.

Unlike other fats, trans fats are neither required nor beneficial for health.[1] Eating trans fat increases the risk of coronary heart disease.[2] For these reasons, health authorities worldwide recommend that consumption of trans fat be reduced to trace amounts. Trans fats from partially hydrogenated oils are generally considered to be more of a health risk than those occurring naturally.[3]

Trans fats are increasingly being linked to chronic health conditions (see below), are tightly regulated in a few countries, are mandatory on product labels in many others, and are the central issue in several ongoing lawsuits (particularly against fast food outlets). Many companies are voluntarily removing trans fats from their products, or establishing trans-free product lines.

Chemically, trans fats are made of the same building blocks as non-trans fats, but have a different shape. In trans fat molecules, the double bonds between carbon atoms (characteristic of all unsaturated fats) are in the trans rather than the cis configuration, resulting in a more straight rather than a kinked shape. As a result, trans fats are less fluid and have a higher melting point than the equivalent cis fats.

[kahljorn]

yea apparantly when molecular structures aren't suited for the body it doesn't know what to do with it.

on a similar note I've heard that honey is very good for you because it is such a complex sugar on a molecular level it metabolizes/digests differently than other sugars.

[Grislygus]

They're telling a bunch of New Yorkers that they aren't allowed to eat what they want?! Here's to the hopes of enraged mobs taking to the streets.

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

This is a gross violation of freedom. Sure a lot of us choose not to eat artificial transfat but that is a CHOICE! And enforcing this violation of liberty is Like being gangbanged by a carrot and the book 1984 at the same time.

I hope they take this to a higher court cause this is proof that new York is full of tards.

Besides by not allowing transfats in the city, the commuters from New Jersey will have to drive around to get to work.

[Emu]

Yeah, and give us back our arsenic and lead in our water, too!

[kahljorn]

yea and while you're at it give us back our opium and cocaine.

[Emu]

In principle I think this is a good idea, but in practice it's going to be simply unworkable. Especially with this time limit, like the article said.

Prohibition, anyone?

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

In principle I think this is a good idea, but in practice it's going to be simply unworkable. Especially with this time limit, like the article said.

Prohibition, anyone?
When fatty foods become outlawed, the lazy slobs like myself must become outlaws.

Yeah it's better for you, but is it really the government's problem?

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=1568707

Do I here any arguments?

[kahljorn]

can't you just like goto a restaurant that's healthier and doesn't have transfats(not sure if they don't) like in and out or something?

I agree the time limit is a bit much but i don't really see why transfat is a big deal with recipes anyway. They knew it was bad for people and yet they put enough in it that their recipes actually need to be completely changed? Kind of strange. It's not as if they haven't had 10 years or whatever since all these health fads started going on to start researching new recipes. Some companies did and came out with new exciting ideas like salads drenched in dressing worse than the hamburgers. PERSPECTIVE: I think mcdonalds double cheese burgers contain 1.5 grams of transfat. That means they only have to reduce it one gram. Big whooptidue and if that makes it taste like shit than that just shows how shitty the food was in the first place.

and I've never made a recipe that called for transfat (i usually don't even use shortening). Do you know how easy it is to make bread or doughnuts or french fries what the hell it's stupid that they are complaining it will be SO HARD to find new recipes. OH NO I HAVE TO FIND A NEW WAY TO FRY FRENCH FRIES IN OIL.
I can understand it being hard to find a new, reliable source of what they want for the recipes but still.

any good restaurant (like above denny's quality) shouldn't have transfat in the recipes. That's why you pay for good food because it's good quality.

quite frankly businesses will bitch about any changes but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a relevant point they're making or that they are even necessarily telling the truth.

[DuFresne]

The cafeterias at my college use 0 trans-fat oil to make our fries. Seasoned well, they can be quite lovely :)

The ban sucks though >:

[zeldasbiggestfan]

You know this will raise prices for food in resturants. If someone already posted that then sorry. I didnt feel like reading.

[El Blanco]

There are resteraunts around here that advertise the fat they don't use transfats. If the law telling the resteraunts to state the transfat content, fine. Thats letting us know what we are in for. But to ban it outright is just more of this shit like we can't make our own choices.

They won with the smoking ban. Fine. But tell me, is there such thing as a second hand heart attack? Will the gunk in my arteries jump over to the person next to me?

Aren't there a few more important concerns? Kind of like police shooting unarmed men, school system issues, labor deals, bussinesses suffering from lousy tourist seasons etc etc.

[AChimp]

I'm all for bans on stuff like smoking, but this kind of thing is retarded. Like Blanco said, there's no such thing as a second-hand heart attack. When you smoke, you puff your shit all over the place and other people who don't necessarily want to smoke have to breathe it in. When you eat a burger, it doesn't magically appear in someone else's hands after you swallow.

Eating fast food and stuff isn't going to kill you. If that's ALL you eat, then yeah, you're going to be unhealthy but its your own damn fault for stuffing your face so much.

[Emu]

There is a difference between trans fats and cigarettes, and that's that nicotine is present "only" in cigarettes while trans fats are considerably more ubiquitous in the selection of foods available to people. And while you don't have to smoke, you do have to eat, and most of the concern over trans fats comes from the fact that trans fats are present in much greater amounts in foods that are generally cheaper and more available to families with lower incomes. So, for those people who simply can't afford to eat higher quality foods, the consumption of trans fats really isn't a choice of health as much as it is a choice of budget.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I don't think the ban applies to packaged, distributed food. There's no way it would've passed, so this pretty much pertains to restaurants, delis, bakeries, etc.

[kahljorn]

I've never heard of second hand heroin injection either but you know it's still illegal for some reason :O

you guys act like this is going to ruin the face of the eatting industry. loll. NOW I CANT GET MY BIGMAC ANYMORE. Did you guys read what I said, they only have to reduce it like 1 gram in sme cases. it isn't like it's going to disappear off the face of the planet. Your concerns, like most people's concerns, are absolutely retarded.

OH NO THEY ARE GOING TO CHANGE THEIR RECIPES(which they do like once a year anyway) HOW AM I GOING TO GET A BIGMAC IF THEY'RE CHANGING THE RECIPE I DONT GET IT WONT THEY BE CLOSED DOWN FOR THE NEXT 20 yeARS AND NONE OF US WILL EVER SEE A BIGMAC AGAIN.

Also this isn't a ban it's a LIMITATION. Bans imply they have to have zero :(

the fact that the FDA hasn't banned or done something about transfats is basically showing they don't really give a damn about people's health and I don't know why they are called the "Food and Drug administration"

and just out of curiousity wasn't there already a ban like this in canada :(

[Emu]

I don't think the ban applies to packaged, distributed food. There's no way it would've passed, so this pretty much pertains to restaurants, delis, bakeries, etc.

What I said still stands regardless. A lot of families will spend their food budget eating out at cheap fast-food restaraunts buying cheap food that's riddled with these trans fats rather than buying actual groceries.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

kahl, I would personally love to avoid transfats. I would also love to make that decision on my own.

It's not about the inconvenience. You're right, it isn't a huge deal (although I see this hurting mom and pop delis and bakeries in the city, at least initially. Apparently canola oil is a comparable sub pricewise).

It's about the government, in this case a city government, deciding what people should and shouldn't eat. Much like the smoking ban, I'm sort of torn on the matter. in the long run, I know I'll be fine with it. But isn't that the problem with government incrementalism? The reason the FDA can't outright ban trans fats is because corporations would go nuts. NYC can do it, excluding packaged goods, because it's more feasible on a smaller scale. Fewer private interests to appease in the process.

And since i think the limitations on drug use are mostly pretty dumb too, you'll have a hard time selling me on a cheeseburger/heroin comparison.

[kahljorn]

lol.

the biggest point I want to highlight is:
"The reason the FDA can't outright ban trans fats is because corporations would go nuts"

Businesses pretend to go nuts about anything they think will make them less money, sometimes even if they don't know what will happen monetary wise, just because they are resistant to change and it changes the business field. And why is it that businesses are more important than the FDA or our health? Corporations shouldn't be above the law, and corporations shouldn't have any self-interested say in the law.

"It's about the government, in this case a city government, deciding what people should and shouldn't eat."

So if the government told you not to consume large quanities of cyanide, removed cyanide from foods/water, told you you couldn't eat any cyanide, (really replace anything deadly that's commonly found in foods and waters) "you" might complain that they are telling you what you can and can't eat and that you want to make the choice on your own?
It's not like transfat is some natural resource. It's a food additive that was invented in the 19th century. You're not even really eatting the transfat. I mean, unless you guys order bars of crisco from mcdonalds this doesn't really effect what you guys are eatting that much.

any bakery that uses transfats is retarded. I make my own bread and it only needs like four ingredients (it's really easy) and none of them are even transfat. I don't think transfat is an essential ingredient in anything. I'm sorry you guys will miss your crisco that much.

Plus haven't you guys ever been annoyed by a fat person? There might not be any second hand smoke but there's stuff such as crowded subways, heavy breathers, stinky armpits, stinky people in general, second hand farts, second hand burps, I mean the list goes on. Come on guys. And this is in the city with like the least amount of personal space per person in probably the entire world except maybe china or something. Fat people are just impractical in a situation like that.

[Emu]

I don't think it's really about them telling us what we can and can't eat. If NYC or whothehellever said you couldn't eat specific foods because they have trans fats in them, then yeah, I'd be pissed, because that IS telling you what you can and can't eat. But they're not doing that. They're changing the recipes and the forumulas to MAKE the food in order to get rid of an agent in the food that's known to be harmful, and moreover, unnecessary.

Like, you wouldn't say that the government's telling you what you can and can't drink by enforcing laws that require that the lead in your drinking water can't exceed a certain amount. The lead fulfills the same criteria as the trans fats. They're unnecessary, dangerous, and don't need to be there.

[kahljorn]

thanks for a better example than cyanide emu :O

[Emu]

I didn't see your post til after I posted. :(

[kahljorn]

lol It's okay. :(
alot of people just ignore my posts anyway so at least they'll be still be subjected to reading the same stuff

[El Blanco]

Water is also municipally supplied and an indgredient in everything. There is no substitute for it and it is vital to our survival.

Alcohol isn't too good for me either, but Bloomberg enjoys his beer, so I won't have to go on a rage just yet.

[kahljorn]

omg lol i thought up a recent thing while looking through the newspaper.

What about the E. Coli Outbreak? I mean come on guys they took all that lettuce out of commission, and taco bell has now stopped serving green onions in their food can you believe that shit? Personally i think we should have the choice to eat e. coli and get a disease (along with everybody else) rather than have them you know stop putting things with e. coli in them such as green onions in taco bell food.

I think the green onions really make the taco bell food, and the flavor will suck without it. This really blows guys.

I don't think this is even an issue of what we can or can't eat, but moreover what restaurants can and can't (basically) force us to eat. I don't see the big deal. Restaurants should be held to some quality standard, they shouldn't be paid to feed us shit.

"Water is also municipally supplied and an indgredient in everything. There is no substitute for it and it is vital to our survival. "
I don't see how that makes a difference it's not as if food isn't vital for our survival.

[El Blanco]

E. coli ins't just unhealthy for you. It freakin kills you.

And there are foods that don't have transfat. They can be made and you or I can choose to patronize those establishments with the government acting like my mother. Its not like all of those places get their food from one source. Most watewr your drink (even the bottled stuff) is from municipal sources (ie tap water)

[kahljorn]

unhealthy things usually end up killing you :( such as heart attacks.

the point is complaining about something that won't even effect you (except by making your health better) because you're afraid the taste of your big mac would suck or because you really like eatting bars of crisco.

"They can be made and you or I can choose to patronize those establishments with the government acting like my mother."

You know I would probably agree with that point if it wasn't for the fact that food wasn't even labeled as having transfats until recently (how are you going to choose in that situation). Also I'd probably ag ree with you if 99% of the people in the world even knew what transfats were.

i mean that's the real point there's no need for transfats to even be in food at all absolutely none, and it's detrimental to our health. That doesn't balance out very well. NO POINT TO BEING IN FOOD AND FUCKS UP MY HELATH.

THEY ARENT TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO EAT AT MCDONALDS OR TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE TO EAT AT MCDONALDS ALL THEY ARE DOING IS TAKING AWAY MCDONALDS RIGHT TO PUT A BUNCH OF SHIT IN THEIR FOOD THE END.
if you guys are going to argue and complain about rights being taken away at least understand who's rights are really being taken away.

PS El Blanco I was talking about them taking out Green Onions because they were afraid it would kill people sort of like them taking transfat out of hamburgers because they are afraid it would kill them. Please show me how they are different. I know you want to say BECAUSE IT KILLS THEM but basically all you're saying is that the only consequences you understand/care about are the immediate ones.

[Grislygus]

So, superspecial trans fats can't be sold in food because they're just plain unhealthy...

I presume, then, that all that regular fatty shit is A-OK.

[theapportioner]

I can't believe people are actually worked up about this. I'm sure the vast majority of people won't be able to tell the difference. It's a popular move among New Yorkers, and the economic consequences will be minimal. People will go out to eat, just as people continue to go to bars even after the smoking ban. In fact, I'd wager that the restaurant industry will do BETTER as more people go out to eat, with the perception that the food is healthier.

Comparing this to an assault on civil liberties is just silly. This "choosing what you want to eat" stuff is restaurant industry PR nonsense.

Moreover, the long term effects cannot be underestimated. There is a definite link between trans fats and heart disease. People will live longer, healthier lives, and health care savings will be significant.

This is an excellent move by NYC and I hope the rest of the country follows suit.

[RectalWart]

It's not about the actual trans-fats anymore. It's about the gradual leaching away of our rights to make our own decisions. The loss of personal freedoms is what made the settlers leave Europe in the first place. Unfortuantely, in the words of The Eagles "There are no more new frontiers." We can't go and colonize a new country to get away from all of these rules, so fighting back is our only alternative. Keep letting them get away with these "inconsequential" rules, and pretty soon we'll all be wearing uniforms and eating food bars with no actual flavor. No more individuality. Sieg Heil!

[Sethomas]

:dunce

[Grislygus]

Anti-transfattites remind me of the people who try to convince you that deoderants and cell phones cause cancer.

[Emu]

Except that trans fats have been shown to be dangerous, while deodorants and cell phones have not.

RectalWart, did you not read a single post in this thread? The liberty issue has been brought up already. I think we can safely assume that nobody except fat honking numbnuts want to eat trans fats. I would agree with the liberty issue except that trans fats fall in the same category as lead in drinking water. They're dangerous, unhealthy, and are most of all unnecessary.

[kahljorn]

In 50 years we'll be looking back going, "WHY'D WE LET THEM TAKE AWAY OUR LAST REMAINING RIGHT OF EATTING TRANSFAT"?

you guys are seriously retarded if you think the choice to eat transfat is some huge civil liberty. Grow up and vote or something you idiots. It's not even like they took away your right to get fat, they just took away the restaurants right to put transfat into their food.
Like MILLIONS OF OTHER HEALTH CODES IN THE WORLD. WHAT WE DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO HAVE COCKROACHES AND RATS IN THE KITCHEN OF THE RESTAURANT WHAT KIND OF FUCKING ATROCITY IS THIS!
Are we to assume every health code, enviromental ordinances, minimum wage and just about everything else the government does is going to take away our civil rights and lead us to nazi germany?


"I presume, then, that all that regular fatty shit is A-OK."

Regular fat is needed by the body to function, in fact if you don't eat enough (healthy) fats you can die. Transfat as we know it today is mostly a creation of humans and not needed by the body at all. I'm pretty sure fats are what helps lubricate our bodies along with alot of other things... also although they are fatty the body can digest them easily depending on how they are cooked. Many fats are actually very good for you and can alleviate many diseases.


I'd seriously like one of you to make one decent point about how eatting transfat is one of our civil liberties beyond saying something stupid like, "PART OF FREEDOM IS BEING ABLE TO MAKE BAD CHOICES". It's not like they are going to arrest you for eatting transfats.

The loss of personal freedoms is what made the settlers leave Europe in the first place.

Yea loses of personal freedoms (lol, were there even such things as "Personal freedoms" before america?) caused america to be created. Man those pilgrims were sure pissed off about not having enough transfat and shit in their food to go around. Plus I heard they were pretty pissed that the government was taking away their right to have the plague. Thank god we have the gift of aids now, the government can never take that away from us am I right.
I thought they came to america because they were being religously oppressed. OOPS! Transfat and religous oppression: Those are the same things, I forgot.

This "choosing what you want to eat" stuff is restaurant industry PR nonsense.

STRAIGHT UP! I bet mcdonalds will have some new Freedom Fry containing 20 grams of transfat to show how free and american we are, FOR THOSE WHO CHOOSE THEIR OWN LIFE NEVAH 4gET transfat 2006.

Seriously if you guys think transfat in your food is some huge important life "choice" that's very important that you have the ability to make otherwise your rights are infringed upon than you guys are losers and i hate you. Also it shows how pathetic you are that "important choices" and "Personal freedoms" to you equate to being able to "choose" eatting transfatty food. What a fucking rebel you are, move over Johnny Yuma.

[Ant10708]

I get what you are saying Kahj but isn't it a little distorted to equate the removal of E coli. bacteria with the removal of trans fats from NYC restuarants.

[kahljorn]

isn't it a bit distorted to equate the banning of transfats with the loss of civil rights?

it is a bit ridiculous though, I was purposely using a ridiculous example. I always use exagerated examples ;/

anyway it's not that they removed e. coli Ant it's that they removed Green Onions because they were afraid people might get E. Coli from it. Now I think there was only like 50 people worldwide who suffered from E. Coli outbreaks due to these green onions, and yet they've completely banned it. I mean it's pretty possible that most people who eat green onions at taco bell won't die, but they're still removing it to be "Safe".

[FartinMowler]

I went shopping with the wife today and most things had 0.1g to 0.2 of Trans fat :rolleyes I would think that they are legislating against misuse of this, not common place food items.

[Ant10708]

Just for the future using ridiculous and exaggerated examples really doesn't help convince or educate anyone except people who are easily swayed to someone else's opinion.

I'd agree it is distorted to equate the removal of trans fat with the loss fo civil liberities.


I didn't know you were referring to the nationwide e coli break out anyways(my bad). Long Island, NY where I live just had one this past week from taco bell. They didn't do anything as retarded as not serving all lettuce in taco bells on LI. And was this ban on green onions imposed by the government or did Taco bell do this itself? In the current incident, they located where it came from and what other facilities came in contact with it and closed them down. Taco bells not affected are still open and everything you can normally get is being served. I think it is a safe idea to avoid Taco Bell unless you want an increased chance of e. coli.

I just think your use of exaggerated examples such as cyanide and e coli seemed like a desperate attempt to make your point. And on the record, you seem to be the most riled up by this piece of news. Even thou you are for it you seem like you are ready to kill some innocent civilians to make the pooint that trans fats are deadly. YAY i used my own exaggerated example.

[kahljorn]

i use exageratted examples when I'm making fun of people's stupid positions. It's a form of sarcasm. Sometimes I also can't think of a better example and I think it shows the same thing, like in this case, "ZOMG IF THEY DONT REMOVE THIS STUFF WE CAN GET SICK" which is exactly the same thing.
E. Coli in food makes us sick so they removed it. Transfat in food makes us sick so they removed it. The only difference is that transfat has long term effects whereas E. Coli is immediate. I find only assholes would find a semantical issue with that, as they both effect the health. I mean we don't put asbestos in buildings because they cause long term effects eithers. i think people who ignore the long term effects of things are kind of like children in a way, especially if they follow it by saying something like "SO WHAT I WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THAT FOR LIKE FIFTY YEARS OR SOMETHING" or "DUDE THATS NOT GONNA HAPPEN TO ME AND ANYBODY IT DOES HAPPEN TO DESERVES IT".
There's tons of examples it's just hard to find one that's exactly the same as banning transfats in new york city that jerkfaces on the internet would find acceptable. I know there's plenty of points that could be made I just can't think up the history of items that have been banned from foods and waters for dishealth purposes.

Emu thought up a good one and somebody said it was a bad example because water goes to everyone and they don't have a choice. lol :(

also the point I was trying to make with cyanide wasn't that it's the same thing but the other aspect of this situation in which people think doing the opposite of what the government tells them to do makes them "Free" and "Rebelious" and is showing that they still have liberty. Kind of like jumping off a bridge if nobody else is or something I guess. In context my exaggeration always makes sense.
also explain to me how banning transfats in food for health purposes is any different than any other health code ever invented and I'll start to think my exaggeration was really out of place and even irrelevant!

ps i wasn't trying to sway anyone's opinion or even educate anyone. except with my honey example at the very begining

[derrida]

How can this be perceived as anything but increasing liberty under the current health care regime??

The FDA's website contains an estimate that a nationwide reformulation of cooking oils would cost the food industry 1 billion while providing a 60 billion savings in health care expenses.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Well, that isn't "liberty," but I get your point.

I'll admit that federal healthcare would equal federal coddling, but it wouldn't be inconsistent of anyone to oppose both (even those it's already our biggest federal expense).

[FartinMowler]

while providing a 60 billion savings in health care expenses.

explain this to me please

[kahljorn]

when people don't have to have triple bypass surgery they will save money.

stuff like that is the practical foundation of most "preventative" healthcare.

[FartinMowler]

can you explain "healthcare" I'm Canadian and rarely see woman that look like thier anus swallowed thier electric scooter.

[noob3]

i think this is a good thing. whoever compared this to cigarettes isn't very smart, everyone KNOWS cigarettes will kill you but not everyone knows that certain foods you eat are gona give you a massive heart attack down the line.

i am all for it. i don't even know anything about transfat but all i know is that when i get a snack that says 0g trans fat on it I feel very proud of myself :o they should ban soda at resturants too you should only be able to buy canned/bottled sodas at grocery stores ect

[kahljorn]

"can you explain "healthcare" I'm Canadian and rarely see woman that look like thier anus swallowed there electric scooter."

I think your explaination with quotes implying sarcasm pretty much did the trick.

Healthcare by american terms means you can goto the doctor and he'll give you pills or check your temperature or reccomend a surgery to you and you'll either get it free or get it at discount if you have american health insurance(otherwise you pay out the ass and that scooter won't fetch much if you know what i mean). However they rarily give you tips on how to stay healthy until well after you have a disease and you're no longer healthy, then they tell you to stop eatting red meat, stop drinking alcohol and have a glass of red wine at dinner before you take your pill. All of this is after you have a disease or condition and is really just to avoid aggravating it. This isn't all doctors but it is alot of them ;/
It's mostly just because there's no emphasis on staying healthy but rather an emphasis on treating diseases and conditions, which american medicine is very good at.
Guys once you have a disease for the most part you can't get rid of it :O

Preventitive healthcare, ideally, is basically teaching people at a young age how to be healthy so they never have to goto a doctor.

Also Kevin posted something relevant to the american health care system:
"The reason the FDA can't outright ban trans fats is because corporations would go nuts."

The pharmacutical industry is huge in america and preventative healthcare would really fuck with it so i hate to say they want people to be unhealthy because I'm sure somebody would have something to say about that but it's certainly in their best interests.

[Ant10708]

I actually found out Taco Bell was the one that took out their green onions or peppers or whatever. Not the government.

[FartinMowler]

"The reason the FDA can't outright ban trans fats is because corporations would go nuts."

Similar to the American Automotive companies that think the American people owe them something for their prosperity. Franchise Food feeding systems that need to be fed because it makes a small town prosperous, Sad.

[Archduke Tips]

Here is my argument:
trans fats are for transexuals.

[kahljorn]

http://www.bantransfat.com/
That's the organization that has been pushing for transfat bans and was partly responsible for the new york ban. That's all the transfat products that have become nontransfat products. Oreos are on there, even the situation where mcdonalds said they were using a low transfat oil but actually weren't. Oh the lies!
There's also an article saying how it won't effect price or the taste of foods ;/

yea ant of course they did otherwise they could've gotten sued ;/
it's like a healthcode type thing you know these things they do so that people don't get sick but look out Geggy they are secretely taking away your ability to choose because we've always had the ability to choose what goes into what at which restaurant, am I right? Oh you mean the ability to choose restaurants oh shit i forgot that now that this transfat ban is in place we can't choose which restaurant we want man things have totally changed in the world today.

whoa whoa wait now when you read that site and scroll down it clearly states that new york city voted to have transfats removed, by a board of health no less(are they elected officials?). How is this an issue of liberty. I mean fuck there's all kinds of things the government does that I don't agree with I mean I don't have any choice in how senators vote but I don't consider that an issue of liberty. I don't know guys you were making it seem like they declared martial law to ban it or something, but it was VOTED. ISNT VOTING LIBERTY?

there's no referance for this but:
13. "There is no popular support for the proposal."

Not true. The Wall Street Journal conducted a poll. The question was: "Would you support a ban on use of trans fats in restaurants in your city?" As of October 13, 2006, 61% were in favor and 39% against. Considering that the readership of the Wall Street Journal is mostly business-supporting and conservative, this is a very encouraging result. Take note states, cities, towns and restaurants across America: the public wants this.

[FartinMowler]

I think a Transexual who has spent so much time deciding what to do to his body would have better grammer than you.

[kahljorn]

i have to leave so i wasn't focusing on making a wellwritten post. not that it matters since you guys are gay and stupid anyway. Plus come on fartin mowleer attacking someone's use of the english language.

This thread is just getting ridiculous.

[FartinMowler]

Sure, blame me :/ Americans with there Biscuits and Gravey and every possible fatty food that might not include Trans fats and I'm the one that gets blamed for bringing up some egg heads grammer.

[Archduke Tips]

Wait a minute.
Fartin, were you insulting me or kahljorn?

I just find it ridiculous to make any argument about the banning of trans fat in New York City. That place is full of crazy motha-fuckas.

AND CAN YOU STOP SPELLING IT GRAMMER...
FUCKING HELL, IT IS SPELLED GRAMMAR.

[kahljorn]

dude i was totally about to say feckin grammer police but i thought it was petty :(

he's talking to me.

[Archduke Tips]

Oh, I thought you had to leave though?

[kahljorn]

I did leave jerk face i came back to make that remark because it was so cutting. Don't you know that leaving is a process of rising that often takes hours depending on the ingredients you use. Especially if they are all natural :O

Oh man guys I totally discovered this new fascist organization on the rise called bantransfat and did you know they haven't just hit new york they've hit across the country!@@#!@! fuck man what will these guys do next ban fat people??
They have something like ten counties and at least five famous fast food places( such as wendys, mcdonalds, taco bell etc.) that have already banned transfat. According to taco bell who started this process last month, it will take them about six months until they are completely trans free (they also already have a transfat free menu).
Apparantly britain already did it :O
Canada has had reccomendations to do the same :O

Man i really think the world is about to end soon guys. I mean they didn't even ask us what we thought of this at all.

[noob3]

uh? why do you care so much? can you even tell us what transfat tastes like or WHY you would want to eat it so bad?

[kahljorn]

lol :(

ps i think transfat tastes like crisco

pps if that's directed at me read the fucking thread :(

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I love how excited and belligerent kahl has gotten in this thread.

If only I knew it would just take a thread on fried foods.

[kahljorn]

I was hilarious in this thread, especially the freedom fries comment.

ps it wasn't the fried food it was you guys equating freedom and liberty with the ability to eat unnecessarily fat fried foods.

Also Kevin how do you respond to the fact that the organization responsible for this ban states that new york voted for this ban? I mean I know you weren't the one necessarily saying you thought it was taking away our liberty but still, I know you said you'd like to "Choose" (which is basically liberty). It might have been a health board that voted it in though but aren't those elected officials who are supposed to "Choose" for us?
and if you don't like those people litigating (wrong word but go with it please) for us shouldn't you be a conservative instead of a "Liberal" or whatever you might be?

i read through this thread and I was only belligerent like three times or something which is well within the confines of imockery message boards jokes :(

[RectalWart]

*poking kahljorn with a trans-fat coated stick*

[kahljorn]

*poking rectarwart with a clogged artery on a stick*

[Archduke Tips]

Kahljorn, why are you all lashy-McOuterson?

[kahljorn]

Man I knew you guys would think I was being mean or something.

I'm sorry if I hurt anybodies feelings I was just having some fun by poking fun at one of the many idealogies that I happen to disagree with and find incredibly irrational. Most of my swear words and insults I didn't really mean.

From now on I'll try my best to keep my insults/arguments friendly and jovial so we can enjoy them together.

[Archduke Tips]

Whoa man. I feel like rainbow beams are shooting out of your head into my head. And then skittles blast out of my mouth and into a leprauchan's mouth. And the unicorn watches.

Thankyou, Kahljorn.

[kahljorn]

you're welcome govnah.

also I mean did you guys really think i was being that mean did I make anyone cry or anything? I seriously only thought I was stepping over the line of offense like maybe once or twice and was being an actual asshole like once but still I think you guys need it it's just tough love and I would expect the same from you if i was acting like an idiot i just hope this doesn't ruin our chances at having a bright and happy future together let's not give up on this guys we can make it work.

[RectalWart]

I reserve the right to serve trans-fats exclusively at dinner parties involving my competetors.