YEAH! Tax day, baby! [Archive]

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 10:42 AM

What idiocy? The fact that most of the people on this board are wearing the horse-blinders when it comes to what you pay in taxes?

Ask yourself this one question: How much do you make?

And no, it is not how much you take home; it is how much you make before taxes, payments, etc.

We need a national sales tax. We would get the money from the people who don't claim taxes (i.e. hookers, prostitutes, etc.), prices for goods would be lower since you wouldn't have to pay all those taxes that are occurred based on the passing of goods between different providers such as the guy who cuts the grain, the guy who makes the dough, the guy who packages it, the guy who ships it, and the store that stocks the bread. We have a hidden 22% SALES TAX that the average dumbass doesn't know they are paying. Lower and middle income families would come off like bandits, because they would get a check from the govt in the estimated form of sales tax they would have to pay for essentials at certain intervals. And you get to keep ALL your check! You don't want to support the govt? DONT BUY ANYTHING! Put your money where your mouth is!

I've wanted this since I was about 18 years old. It would work, bar none. Then people would HAVE MORE MONEY, the govt would have more money, we would still have Medicare and Social Security (even though it is a crock to begin with), and the economy would boom.

Since I agree with and many others agree with me that are economic professors and studiers of tax systems, I guess that makes us all idiots, huh?

The taxes right now are a ripoff. They rip off the rich, the SS taxes rip off black men, and taxes in general rip us all off.

AChimp

Apr 15th, 2003, 11:05 AM

Taxes are great. :)

And if you think adding a sales tax will make goods and services cheaper, you are a fool. Companies will not deprive themselves of a profit, especially when they have to pay more for the stuff that THEY buy. :)

But I'm sure having the revenue from prostitutes's purchases will make a huge difference in revenue for the government. Afterall, hookers are just crawling everywhere in the U.S. :rolleyes

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 11:17 AM

Achimp, you are Canadian, so I can tolerate that you are a completely useless fleshbag when it comes to the talk of taxation. But since I live in a country where the majority of the citizens would rather not live in a socialist state, I will break it down for even you to understand.

Now, Achimp, in America, we already pay a sales tax on items, along with state taxes and possibly city taxes. Now, what this program does is ELIMINATE the hidden taxes on the items. There is just a standard tax on everything you buy after you spend X amount of dollars in a year. This means that if you buy items in America, you pay taxes. You don't buy very much, you don't pay very much. Voluntary taxation. Very simple, very effective.

People will get ALL their check when they are paid. If they want to buy something, they pay for it and a standard national sales tax. The prices of items will be LOWER due to companies and handlers and anyone else that has shit to do with that product or service not having to pay taxes on every little aspect of it!

When I go to the store and buy a loaf of bread, there are taxes out the poop-chute on it. Taxes on the farmer selling the grains, taxes on the makers of the dough, taxes on the guys who make the dough into bread, taxes on the guys who package the bread, taxes on the shippers of the bread, and taxes on the stores that buy the bread. Now, I take my $1, which HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED WHEN I GOT MY CHECK and I pay (I believe it is) 34 cents for the ADDITIONAL taxes put on the bread... How is that fair, sir?

Please explain to me how this is fair? If you even ATTEMPT to with a straight face, I advise you to ban yourself from voting in any election for the next 10 years, because it is obvious you are an idiot with no perception of reality.

Now, if we have a sales tax, it will tax people who spend. Who spends money that is not taxed? Pimps, whores, drug dealers, ect. People who make ILLEGAL income but never PAY taxes. So, when the pimp wants to buy his pimp-mobile, he has to pay TAXES on it! Fairness in a govt system! Wow, what a new idea!

AChimp

Apr 15th, 2003, 11:43 AM

Yeah, and who does the pimp buy his pimp-mobile from? The car dealership, so therefore there are taxes "hidden" in the cost, since you so eloquently stated that "Now, Achimp, in America, we already pay a sales tax on items, along with state taxes and possibly city taxes."

Your use of bread as an example is flawed. Under any normal standard sales tax system, items deemed to be essential are NOT taxed. That includes food; how lucky for you.

In addition to that, your view of standard sales tax is flawed! A sales tax applies to EVERY KIND OF SALES TRANSACTION, not just what is deemed to be the end-consumer. So you eliminate the tax that is placed on grain, but add a sales tax to that transaction instead.

Let's look at your little example, and assume that "KA-CHING" means that sales tax has been applied:

Farmer sells to grain warehouse. KA-CHING. Grain warehouse sells to dough-maker. KA-CHING. Dough-maker sells to bakery. KA-CHING. Bakery sells to store. KA-CHING. You buy the bread from the store. KA-CHING.

You are merely replacing a bunch of taxes with one tax, and it all adds up to the same amount in the end. (i.e. replace all the KA-CHINGs with "grain tax" and "dough tax", etc.) Since you are so pro-capitalism, you can't begrudge a merchant and honest profit, so the price goes up at each level. Are you being taxed any less in the end? No.

All you have succeeded in doing is removing the income tax that you whine so much about. But wait! We'll have more money so we can buy more stuff! No, you won't. Take some marketing and consumer behaviour courses, Vince. People don't typically buy stuff just because they can; they buy stuff that they think they need. You don't see me with a dozen TVs just because I can afford them.

You are using all the same arguments that the Conservative government used in the late 80's when they were introducing the GST, our national sales tax.

Prices will go lower! Everyone will have more! No they didn't. No we don't. :blah

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 12:06 PM

No, the taxes are not "hidden" ANYWHERE with this plan. Everyone KNOWS the taxes they will have to pay first hand! The hidden taxes are gone, because all the little areas will not be taxed anymore, and if they are, it is KNOWN, and prices can be LOWER because of all the taxes for the consumer, I.E. Me, you, or anyone else.

Yes, you are being TAXED less in the end. Without these hidden taxes lumped on by MORE taxes, we are taxed in the end. The reason you don't believe we are taxed that much in the first place is because you are used to the fact that you "take home" x amount of dollars every pay period, when in fact you should be taking home MORE!

And please, before you try to insult my intelligence, don't question my training in sales/marketing/etc. I know why people buy items and services. This tax system would tax people less, give more money to lower and middle income citizens, and help economies boom. Why does Russia have a better economy with a flat tax? I guess they are stupid, huh?

Yeah, Canada is just a fine example of a country! *snort* If you want to be punished for being successful, move there. Hell, move here, for now..... The U.S. tax code is screwed. It needs to be fixed. This will fix it. And it also may help people learn RESPONSABILITY.

Besides, looked at the Earned Income Tax Credit that the Republicans passed; It GIVES money to people AFTER their TAX debt is PAID. So in fact, it is STEALING from someone to pay someone money they NEVER EARNED in the first place! Explain how this is fair.

And oh yeah... don't vote in any elections.

Jeanette X

Apr 15th, 2003, 12:24 PM

Perhaps the rich ought to pay all or most of the taxes, and everyone else should be left alone.

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 12:30 PM

Jeanette, are you being serious or stupid?

The way you answer the above question will judge my response.

AChimp

Apr 15th, 2003, 12:30 PM

Vince, you are a moron. You are still merely replacing all your hidden taxes with an out-in-the-open tax of equal amount. Stuff will still cost the same, and no one will be rushing out to clean out the nearby Wal-Mart.

sspadowsky

Apr 15th, 2003, 12:34 PM

We need a national sales tax. We would get the money from the people who don't claim taxes (i.e. hookers, prostitutes, etc.)

What about ladies of the evening, party girls, harlots, hussies, whores, joygirls, streetwalkers, call girls, and bawds? Shouldn't they have to pay too?
________
Tl1000R (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_TL1000R)

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 12:40 PM

Achimp, are you a fucking idiot or do you not have the ability to read? When you don't have TAXES TAKEN FROM YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE WHEN YOU GET PAID, YOU GET MORE MONEY! You can then CHOOSE to pay taxes buy buying luxury items or spending outside some percieved limit of expenses. The GOVT would send you a check for the cost of the sales tax on essential items! How fucking hard is this to understand?!? People who spend money would pay taxes, people who don't want to spend money would not pay taxes. But, but, but, it would not be forcefully taken out in the first place! And you would not OWE any taxes in the end on a certain day, because there would be no IRS.

Most people are not going to rush out and buy a fucking store's worth of items. But, people will do more projects and want to start more business or expand said business because the taxes are non-existant or lowered. Thus, more jobs are needed and more money is made. Then more money is earned by people so they can go out and buy or invest or whatever. Finally, the govt makes MONEY off the sales tax and it gets more REVENUE, which they will of course try to spend on stupid, inefficent projects like socalized healthcare and aid to places like Syria.

Protoclown

Apr 15th, 2003, 12:58 PM

I too hate taxes. That's why I don't pay them.

I kill who I want and take what I need.

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 01:01 PM

An adventureous yet untrue option, Proto.

Protoclown

Apr 15th, 2003, 01:03 PM

Kind of like that submarine letter, huh?

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 01:11 PM

I was going to say just like your social life, but the joke was lame. Like your social life! Wow, wasnt that just great.

Anonymous

Apr 15th, 2003, 01:22 PM

proto you need to respect "Crazy Wild Life/ Ladies Man Vince"
He can teach you alll about life and how to be a stud like him

sspadowsky

Apr 15th, 2003, 01:25 PM

Yes, I want to hear more stories about sluts that he's groped.
________
HOME MADE VAPORIZER (http://homemadevaporizers.info/)

The_Rorschach

Apr 15th, 2003, 01:27 PM

"Perhaps the rich ought to pay all or most of the taxes, and everyone else should be left alone."

Actually, this is a pretty stupid comment, or woefully naive, I can't decide which. In a capitalistic environment, where many people's goal is to become rich, depriving them of their wealth will only decrease their willingness to be successful - or increase their willingness to live outside the United States. Tax money is used for the benefit of all, whether its paving roads, sustaining the military, or providing reduced cost healthcare, and often times, the poor gain more from the taxes they pay rather than the rich. It needs to be a burden carried by all, and the rich - whether you believe it or not - actually carry a great deal of it.

As to paying taxes. . .

My income is pretty shotty, I got six grand in loans, four grand in grants, a thousand dollar scholarship and a part time job which I only put roughly seventy five hours in to (making 1138 dollars). My tax return is like a hundred bucks so I didn't bother filing. The Revolutionary war wasn't fought over taxation, it fought over taxation without prepresentation.. My only regret today is that I could not pay more.

AChimp

Apr 15th, 2003, 03:11 PM

The GOVT would send you a check for the cost of the sales tax on essential items!
:lol

You're promoting an idea that you can't even come up with an efficient system for in your tiny little head! :lol

You think that every person in America is going to save all their grocery receipts to prove how much food they bought? I sure as hell don't!

And what if the government sends everyone a fixed amount? Well, to quote you, how is that fair? A fatass like yourself eats 10x as much as a regular person, even if it's all in vegetables and low-fat lentils. I'd be getting reimbursed too much and you'd be getting reimbursed too little.

You might as well just convert the IRS into the Ingestibles Refund Service rather than get rid of it, because that's how much bureaucracy a system like that would need.

Apr 15th, 2003, 04:36 PM

Vince not care! >: Vince not want pay much so him can bathe in cream cheese on regular basis! >:

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 15th, 2003, 06:46 PM

Do you pay taxes, Kevin?

yes. How's your Cuba project coming along, btw....?

Answer that question and I will know if I should pat you on your head and send you on your way or talk to you about how our tax system is raping the workers of the United States.

:boohoo

Anonymous

Apr 15th, 2003, 07:24 PM

Wouldn't a sales-tax-only system mean that people would directly control government and business funds? Wouldn't that mean that whenever our economy dips, things start to hurt a lot worse than they already do?

How would this improve the economy, anyway? Who's getting all this magic money that we're 'throwing away' now? I mean, this sudden national prosperity would have to come from somewhere. You'd make more, but things would cost more, too.

So, pretty much, the nation is misinformed for not wanting further inflation.

I guess that makes us all idiots, huh?

AChimp

Apr 15th, 2003, 07:34 PM

No, Chojin, with all the money you would have, you would always buy stuff and the economy would go up, up, UP!

Of course... there are an awful lot of people who don't like paying taxes and would refuse to buy any more than they had to, and would probably buy even less, just so they could save their money... OH, IT MAKES MY HEAD HURT!

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 15th, 2003, 10:03 PM

Of course... there are an awful lot of people who don't like paying taxes and would refuse to buy any more than they had to, and would probably buy even less, just so they could save their money... OH, IT MAKES MY HEAD HURT!

You're absolutely right, Chimp. I had the misfortune of working in retail for quite a few years, and in New York, we used to have a 7% sales tax on items. People were outraged, so they ditched it, but every County had the option of maintaining one. Mt County left one at 3%, and people STILL bitched like they were being oppressed.

What are the proponents of a broad sales-tax over income taxation suggesting, 12%? 13%?? HA! Try selling that to people, no pun intended.

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 10:11 PM

Are you all fucking naive or just really, REALLY stupid!

Taxes have increased from the average family paying 2% in 1948 to 25% of your income in TAXES! WE PAY 1/4 OF OUR FUCKING MONEY IN INCOME TAXES! I guess that doesn't mean much to anyone. It does to me.

Look at the welfare system we have in America. It sucks. Big time. We have created a society of dumbass kids that don't want to work! I hate supporting those who do not want to work. IF you are on welfare, you BEST GET A FUCKING JOB IF YOU ARE ABLE AND DO SOMETHING TO BENEFIT THE WORLD AROUND YOU! I work my ass off to pay taxes. 5 fucking months a year I am a govt slave that pays taxes. Because we pay taxes on the dumbest shit in existence. Support for stupid programs, support for welfare for people who CAN work but refuse to, support for pork-barrel spending that bureocrats on ALL sides use to bring MY money into states I could give a shit less about.

We spend and spend and spend and spend in this society on programs, items, and support we should not give money to. It’s sickening. And if you refuse to wake and watch where your money goes, we will become like Canada. Then we will turn into England. And then we might as well claim we are atheists and put a nice big red flag up in the Red House, because we will degrade into full blown Commies because the dumbfuck children of the United States refuse to learn about what happens with their checks.

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 15th, 2003, 10:14 PM

Your feelings on welfare are asinine, because it simply just doesn't drain on the economy like mythologists such as yourself would like to suggest.

Back to the point: Are you saying that a sales-tax above 10% is a viable solution for the income tax???

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 10:24 PM

Elimate all the other taxes. Then that tax wont seem so high. People will be able to have more money every check than they would right now. We tax everything. We tax money you earn, then if you invest it and earn money, you pay the taxes on that. Then if you die and have over a certain amount, THEY TAX THAT!

They tax fucking everything in existance because people are too fat, happy and stupid to stand up. I do hope the Libertarian Party makes big waves in '04 and '08. I am sick of the govt thinking I'm some sheep that will go "Baa" every time it wants to deny me money or punish me for being sucessful or anything else that is against what this country was founded upon.

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 15th, 2003, 10:34 PM

People will be able to have more money every check than they would right now. We tax everything. We tax money you earn, then if you invest it and earn money, you pay the taxes on that. Then if you die and have over a certain amount, THEY TAX THAT!

Only a tiny % of the population pays the Estate Tax, if that's what you're refering to.

A system that depends upon the "feel good" status of the sales market would be suicide.

VinceZeb

Apr 15th, 2003, 10:42 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 15th, 2003, 11:04 PM

Only a tiny percent pays the Death Tax?

I hope you don't use this type of thinking to justify this legalized govt theft, because if you do, I will pay for a plane ticket to meet you so I can punch you in the jaw.

:lol

THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY THAT MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE! It is already taxed at least 2 times, via state and federal taxes! Business wont expand and keep shops and money just becuase of the fact that they will have to pay MORE taxes in the end once they die! How is that fair or even honest, Kevin? Please at least TRY to win me over.

Your argument is based on an argument that isn't real, that every small, humble business owner will be paying this tax. They won't be. This tax, much like the capital gains taxes, is in fact intended to keep the playing field level, essentially, make the "American Drwam" as difficult/accessible for everyone. Is it right that people are born with a silver spoon inheritance, do nothing their entire lives to earn it, and then get to preach on the virtues of hard work and low taxation?

I don't care if I win you over, btw. You are much too interesting to ever see change. :)

mburbank

Apr 16th, 2003, 09:57 AM

I say that since the war in Iraq is over, we take the money we were willing to donate to send Vince, and send him to ounch Kevin in the jaw. No offense, Kev, I just think it's about as likely a scenario.

I mean, unless you all want to defer the pool for about six months and we can send Vince to Syria.

AChimp

Apr 16th, 2003, 10:10 AM

Hey Vince! So you're pissed off that a WHOLE QUARTER of your income flies away to Uncle Sam every year?

Here's a tip: Get some education (I'd start with grammar lessons) and get a higher paying job. :)

Vibecrewangel

Apr 16th, 2003, 12:10 PM

Don't even get me started on what we pay in CA between income tax and sales tax.

VinceZeb

Apr 16th, 2003, 12:21 PM

Hey chimp, guess what? I am in school and have a good paying job. And your big theory is to make more money so I can even pay MORE of my salary is just stupid and shows why you should never vote.

Kevin, you are a fucking idiot. If someone is born with a lot of money, then so what? They won life's lottery! Should that money go to the govt so they can waste it?!? And what about the hardworking guy trying to pass a business down to his kid? Should that guy have to pay taxes and then have the business hurt by having to pay those taxes?!?

Kevin, you are a PRIME #1 example of govt school education. You are a fucking dumbass who has not even earned the right to debate me on ANYTHING anymore. Untill you prove you have a functioning brain cell, I will simply ignore your existance on this planet.

mburbank

Apr 16th, 2003, 12:26 PM

How do I get in on that deal?

AChimp

Apr 16th, 2003, 12:54 PM

Oh, so you are in school, Vince? Studying what? Ebonics, probably, by the way you type. But, wait, you just said that you work at a private school!

There must be a lot of school in your life, Vince. It's a shame that none of it has rubbed off on you.

And your big theory is to make more money so I can even pay MORE of my salary is just stupid and shows why you should never vote.
:lol

You definitely can't be studying math, that's for sure. 25% is 25%, regardless of whether it's a quarter of $20K or $100K.

Look, I will make it easy:

20,000 * 0.25 = 4000 (16,000 left over for buying candy)
100,000 * 0.25 = 25,000 (75,000 left over for buying candy)

You're still paying 25%, so how are you paying MORE of your salary? Your total income has gone up in proportion and you're $60,000 richer.

Mmmm.... candy. :)

VinceZeb

Apr 16th, 2003, 01:11 PM

You may know math but you sure as hell don't know the tax code. The more money you make, the more you pay. That is why people who make 10,000 a year don't pay shit while the ones who make 250K a year pay a ton. Before you talk about my intelligence, please learn more about what you are talking about.

AChimp

Apr 16th, 2003, 01:15 PM

Oh, sorry! You'll end up paying 35%! Boo hoo. You're still $50,000 richer.

And, if you had half a brain, you'd realize that there are many legal ways to decrease the amount of income you have to pay taxes on. You could donate to charities, for example, or invest it with the government.

But then again, if you did either of those things, you wouldn't have it to spend. :rolleyes

mburbank

Apr 16th, 2003, 02:32 PM

No, seriously, how do I get in on Kevin's deal?

pjalne

Apr 16th, 2003, 07:19 PM

The way to do it which to undertell them your income of total salary.

BombsBurstingInAir

Apr 16th, 2003, 07:26 PM

Perhaps the rich ought to pay all or most of the taxes, and everyone else should be left alone.

Actually, that is pretty much the case now. The wealthiest folks pay most all taxes.

The next time gas prices drive you ape shit, check and see how much of that price is taxes, state and fed.

Skulhedface

Apr 16th, 2003, 07:30 PM

Actually, I agree that the rich should pay more taxes.

The government will take money from you regardless of your income, and if the rich don't get their share taken, and since the government doesn't believe in going without (gotta study the mating rituals of Japanese butterflies, you know) then who are they going to take it from, logically?

Do you feel rich people DESERVE more money? That since the poor are in different circumstances or god forbid weren't born into riches, they should be penalized for that? For that matter, since your thinking is so archaic, if you bought a trailer park, do you believe you should be allowed the first night with your tenant's newlywed wife because you own the land they're on?

Getting back on-topic... I'm only getting a $400 refund this year :P

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 16th, 2003, 07:35 PM

Kevin, you are a fucking idiot. If someone is born with a lot of money, then so what? They won life's lottery!

That's wonderful! God beless America, eh!?

Should that money go to the govt so they can waste it?!? And what about the hardworking guy trying to pass a business down to his kid? Should that guy have to pay taxes and then have the business hurt by having to pay those taxes?!?

Show me numbers. How often does this happen?? All the time, by the hundreds? The thousands? Maybe you're just using it to compensate for your weak ass argument...?

Kevin, you are a PRIME #1 example of govt school education. You are a fucking dumbass who has not even earned the right to debate me on ANYTHING anymore. Untill you prove you have a functioning brain cell, I will simply ignore your existance on this planet.

:lol

I'm going to hold you to this.

Little did I know how simple it'd be to shut your ignorant ass up! :lol

BombsBurstingInAir

Apr 16th, 2003, 07:36 PM

Do you feel rich people DESERVE more money?

That kinda sounds to me like the government creates wealth, and then decides who should get what. Funny stuff :)

El Blanco

Apr 16th, 2003, 07:47 PM

Everybody bitches about taxes. I do to. but then I realize I am only paying for services the government has rendered and will render. Its usually not how much I pay, but how it is used.

The government is too goddamned big and burns money at a ridiculous rate. I read a book a few years ago. The title was something like Government Waste A to Z or along those lines.

Ya, our welfare system blows ass. Half the people I know on it think it is a career and have no problem cheating the system.

The other half are working their asses off to get away from it, only to be redtaped to a point where they have to stay on it. They get menial jobs that pay barely above minimum wage and are told that is too much to recieve welfar. However, it is no where near enough to raise kids on.

Instead of just dropping taxes, they would be better to reorganize government spending habbits.

El Blanco

Apr 16th, 2003, 07:58 PM

Do you feel rich people DESERVE more money?

Well, if they earn it, yes. Whats wrong with that? If I work hard and bust my ass to provide a good or service that people like and are willing to pay lots of money for, why can't I be rich?

The American Dream is financial indepenadance ie being rich.

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 16th, 2003, 08:21 PM

Blanco, I think I completely agree with you on the first post.

I just wanted to make note of this special occassion. Champagne??

Skulhedface

Apr 16th, 2003, 10:29 PM

El Blanco

Apr 16th, 2003, 11:01 PM

Most business owners are content to rest on their laurels.. err, titles.

What? Are you high? Do you understand the hard work behind bussiness? My dad sure as hell hasn't been resting the last 25 years. If you want to get to the top in any company (yes, any) you have to bust your ass. Same thing if you want to stay on top.

The thing about being rich in America: its difficult to stay there. Making money and managing it are talents that require hard work to maintain.

KevinTheOmnivore

Apr 16th, 2003, 11:25 PM

Would you say this is true for CEOs like Michael Eisner??? Did he bust his ass? Do you think his company's earnings for the past year warranted the pay increase he, like many other CEOs, have given themselves this year...?

Skulhedface

Apr 16th, 2003, 11:37 PM

Not entirely.. I have respect for the CEOs that did work, that DID bust their asses, that DID put in their time. They deserve it, by all means.

But if you want to look at a prime example of what I AM talking about? People like Kathie Lee Gifford or Nike, who make all their profits on the blood and sweat of child labor. Kathie Lee in this case is for all intents and purposes, the CEO of this company, and she's making enough to put a love tub in her mansion's 50th bathroom because children are busting their asses to line her pockets.

Have I clarified my position on this yet?

VinceZeb

Apr 16th, 2003, 11:58 PM

Skullhead and anyone else who thinks the rich should be paying more taxes: Do you agree with this statement?

"To each according to his need. From each according to his ability."

Protoclown

Apr 17th, 2003, 12:12 AM

Did you ever post that submarine letter?

Skulhedface

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:37 AM

Actually, I guess you can say my problem lies in the government, namely misappropriation of tax funds. But that's a whole other beast, isn't it?

If the government didn't plain out waste so much money, would heavy taxes even be an issue? I'm sure the rich alone could pay it, and the poor wouldn't be taxed right into poverty.

In other words, I've seen stories about rich fat cats who didn't earn a dime they made, yet can sit on their asses and even collect a refund. However, a single mother who works two or three jobs to support her children because her husband's a deadbeat or asshole or something to that effect are getting audited and taxed into homelessness.

That doesn't seem right. I know "life isn't fair", but if that were basically an acceptable answer, a lot of protests would be solved with one simple sentence, wouldn't they?

VinceZeb

Apr 17th, 2003, 08:58 AM

You still did not answer the question.

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 09:50 AM

Yes, Vince I-

OH NO!! OH JEEZE, THAT QUOTE!! It's from KARL MARX!!!

OH! OH! I'VE FALLEN INTO VINCE CAREFULLY LAID TRAP!! I'VE REVEALED MY TRUE COLORS! BECAUSE IF I AGREE WITH ONE THING A PLOITICAL PHILOSIPHER SAID TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT, WHY I'M THE VERY SAME AT HEART AS STALIN!!!

OH! OH, GOD, I'M A MONSTER!!!!!

Thank you Vince. You've made me take a good look at myslef with your clever tiger trap of words. I've had a change of heart. You've saved me from life of Godles communism. From now on my philsophy will be

"From each according to my strength. To each according to their ability to pry it from the hands of someone evenb weaker ."

VinceZeb

Apr 17th, 2003, 09:54 AM

And you say I have bad spelling.....

Yep, its Karl Marx. And God forbid I take that great man out of context!

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 10:03 AM

I never said you had bad spelling. I said you had no understanding of grammar or syntax, that you frequently use words incorrectly, that you often use the wrong words, you don't understand paralell construction, you use the wrong verb tense almost a quarter of the time and that taken together your communication skills are very, very bad.

You're spelling is somewhat better than mine, which is hardly a compliment.

Conest schmontext. I'm mocking the childishness of your littlle gambit.

Communism as it was layed out by Marx has never been practiced or even seriously attempted. Do you think Marx would have seen Stalin's Gulag system or Mao's cultural revolution as delivering "To each according to their needs"? And did you honestly think people here wouldn't recognize the quote?

VinceZeb

Apr 17th, 2003, 10:22 AM

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 10:33 AM

Hmmm. An interesting if debatable point of view.

But what of my charge that you are a very, very bad writer and that it has nothing to do with your spelling or typing speed? What of my implication that all your boasts about your intelligence and personal superioroty fall apart before the ferocious assault of your lousy writing?

Apr 17th, 2003, 11:16 AM

Communism is evil. Every time it is tried, it is produced nothing but evil. 100 Million+ have died from Communism.

That's the second time you've made that gross misstatement here. It really were "communist" dictators that are responsible for those deaths, you know.

Vibecrewangel

Apr 17th, 2003, 11:58 AM

On paper communisom is beautiful. A fairly perfect system.

In practice.....not so good. Human nature tends to fuck things up. That is exactly why capitalism works so well. It plays into instead of agains human nature.

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 12:23 PM

You don't seriously beleieve you guys are going to have a substantive conversation on the merits and pit falls of communism in theory VS communism in historical practice, do? Do you think Vince is even up to comprehending the question?

I'm far more interested in seeing him engage the "Vince is very bad writer" debate without insisting I'm criticizing his spelling or typing.

Vibecrewangel

Apr 17th, 2003, 12:28 PM

Nah, just interjecting my opinion.

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 12:41 PM

Well, that is they say, is a horse of an entirely different color. In this case, Red.

And I agree you you almost entirely. I just think Capitalism needs to be regulated and overseen so that it doesn't turn into robber barron white collar crime enron global crossing style free for all. That's the kind of things that can lead to unsightly Bushes growing in the Oval Office.

Like Churchill, (praphrased) I'd agree that our system of Government is the very worst ezxcept for ll the others.

Of course, that doesn't count for too much, since ngland is a filthy socialist mire, and socialism is only one step up the slippery slope from communism. We should probably liberate the English as soon as possible.

VinceZeb

Apr 17th, 2003, 12:54 PM

So, Max, if you think Bush is such a dumbass, tell me who would have done a better job with what is going on between Bush, Gore and Nader?

Why don't you run for president yourself since you are so fucking wise and intelligent? You won't. You will bitch and whine just like your pals did when they blamed the Supreme Court for stealing the election, when recount after recount proved Bush won.
Communism is a nice little deal on paper. But it is just a THEORY. When put into practice, it kills and destroys. I don't see why people can't let it rest. That would be like the people who write books about how little children want to have sex get the reigns to the country and allow child-fuckers to run wild. People like Max would sit there and argue "Well, screwing 7 year olds because they have shown to want it looks good on paper, so let’s keep trying it till we get it right!"

Vibecrewangel

Apr 17th, 2003, 12:59 PM

God is just a theory too.

Looks great on paper, but has caused 100's of millons of deaths.

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:06 PM

See, it's when you pull stuff like that out of your ass that I worry you may be insane on top of being stupid.

If I follow your logic (and it's a stretch) governments attempting to practice Communism in spite of it's historical failures is like me (or people in some way like me) endorsing child sex.

What, pray tell, put child sex into your head? Had anyone here mentioned it? Is it something on your mind? Do you feel some need to go on public record as being against child sex?

Honestly, Vince. I think you need help. It's bad enough you can hrdly go a day without talking about rape, now your onto child sex!

This is I-mockery. I think you may be looking for some kind of survivors support group.

Protoclown

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:10 PM

Nice try, Vibe, but he won't understand why that quote about God is pretty much exactly the same as his blaming communism for so much death.

sadie

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:11 PM

wait. how does vince know your pals, max? looks like you've another stalker. you are so popular!

El Blanco

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:14 PM

We should probably obliterate the English as soon as possible.

I whole heartedly agree

I would also just like to say, listening to a socialist is like listening to a battered wife, " It can work this time, just give us another chance. We'll go back, give it a try, and everything will be all better."

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:14 PM

HET, VINCE! HOW IS THE THINKING ABOUT CHILD SEX GOING?

Anonymous

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:36 PM

:lol fuck I need to stop reading this forum and get some work done

Vibecrewangel

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:40 PM

I was thinking the same thing.....and yet here I am....

mburbank

Apr 17th, 2003, 01:46 PM

I went to a super bad ass meeting with the Museum's comptroller about the new accounting System, so I feel fine about spending time here. I'm hungry though.

Jeanette X

Apr 17th, 2003, 03:17 PM

Yep, its Karl Marx. And God forbid I take that great man out of context!

If you believe that communism is evil, why do you call Marx a "great man".

Jeanette X

Apr 17th, 2003, 03:23 PM

Communism is evil. Every time it is tried, it is produced nothing but evil. 100 Million+ have died from Communism. So sorry if I don't really value it. It is based on using my life to work for others because there is no God and nothing else to work for but the state.

While I certainly agree that communism is terrible for a large-scale society, in very small groups, such as communes or small primitive tribes, it can work. But those situations are the only practical applications of communism. It simply cannot work on a larger scale.

Edit: Dang. I made two posts again when I only should have made one. Sorry guys. :(

Anonymous

Apr 17th, 2003, 05:53 PM

If you believe that communism is evil, why do you call Marx a "great man".

He was obviously being sarcastic. To be hilarious. And right.

VinceZeb

Apr 17th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Vibe, religious wars have killed nowhere near the millions on a grand and deliberate scale Communism did. To even compare God to Communism make me want to vomit.

Communism never works. Never has, never will unless under extreme force. Religion is twisted to do evil. Communism goes against human nature. The concept of God does not. So please, don't even try to compare the greatness of God with the socialist wet dream of Communism

VinceZeb

Apr 17th, 2003, 08:18 PM

Only person that seems to be thinking about child sex is you, Max. Should we call the DSS so they can get your daughter to safety?

Anonymous

Apr 17th, 2003, 08:20 PM

If the concept of God didn't conflict with human nature, why would there be a hell? Or better yet, the presence of a little jew boy that died to save everyone whose very natures would drive them from the Lord?

VinceZeb

Apr 17th, 2003, 08:28 PM

Hell exists for those who disobey God. God is the be-all end all of existance, so he makes the rules. Not hard to understand at all.

Anonymous

Apr 17th, 2003, 08:30 PM

If God didn't conflict with human nature, why would people disobey him?

AChimp

Apr 17th, 2003, 09:01 PM

Vince, you dunce, you're Catholic, so you should know that Hell is only for the unbaptized.

Apr 18th, 2003, 06:00 AM

Vibe, religious wars have killed nowhere near the millions on a grand and deliberate scale Communism did. To even compare God to Communism make me want to vomit.

No really, I dub this the absolute most moronic statement you have EVER made on these boards.

Thousands of years of human history drenched with religious wars, and you think a little 19/20th century concept of government can do better than that? Then again, I guess you blame this all-encompassing concept of communism for pretty much all the casualties of war during the years of the Soviet Union, cause I don't see how you come to such a ridiculous idea otherwise.

Ronnie Raygun

Apr 18th, 2003, 07:29 AM

I'm get back a little over 2 grand of my own money with no interest added this year.

VinceZeb

Apr 18th, 2003, 07:51 AM

FS, tell me why it is so dumb? Because its a TRUE statement?

Communism on record has murdered more people than religious wars have on record. The Great Leap Forward by that pie-face Mao, Pol Pot's re-education caps, the starvation of the N. Koreans, the murders in Vietnam after we left, it all adds up and STILL adds up!

A little concept of govt, huh? Are you joking with me or are you a fucking retard? Communism is still around. Maoists are in Nepal trying to take over right now. The guys I lived with in my appartment are from there, and it's a pretty shitty situation over there right now. So please, give communism it's due.

mburbank

Apr 18th, 2003, 09:38 AM

Vince. No one on this board mentioned child sex until it popped out of that nasty little leeching field you call your head.

I'm curious though. What exactly is the number of people who have died 'from' communism? Just ballpark. Where are you getting this figure from?

What exactly is the number of people who died 'from' religion? See, since you're including all kinds of things that weren't Communist wars, but simply horrible communist conditions, then you need to include not only all of human history's bloody religous conflicts (The Crusades, the War of the Roses, etc. etc. etc.) But also the Inquisition, the Holocaust you are so fond of sighting, The Roman persecution of Christians, why even the Crucifiction of Christ was an example of religous persecution. Hell, David Koresh and company wouldn't have died if not for their religous beliefs.

I'm sure you've got some bizarre Vince logic the barrows the definition of which people died due to religion and which religous deaths have nothing to do with Marx, but I'd say all of the ones I've sited were due to belief in God, either the killers, or the victims.

I'd say that's every bit as legitimate a link as the one you're making between The Khmer Rouge and Marx. I'm pretty certain that Marx and Lennon would not have recognized Pol Pot as a fellow traveller.

Vibecrewangel

Apr 18th, 2003, 10:57 AM

We can also add in all the deaths of those who didn't convert
Native Americans
Pacific Islanders
Africans
Slaves (yes there is a difference)
Those who practiced any of the old religions

Hell, our current war can be seen as a religious war. Bush has made it clear it is for God.

What about hate crimes?

And these are just from the Christian religion alone.

mburbank

Apr 18th, 2003, 11:00 AM

OH MY GOD!

I just realized something!

Vince is dumb.

glowbelly

Apr 18th, 2003, 11:06 AM

you mean...HE CAN'T SPEAK?!

Apr 18th, 2003, 11:10 AM

Exactly my point. Vince, does your imagination stretch past the last century?

Communism on record has murdered more people than religious wars have on record.

Look, you canned ham of a man, what does it matter whether it's on record or not? Centuries of war don't count because someone wasn't around to chisel down the corpse count for future generations to use in their arguements? I don't know what exactly you're all tossing on a pile you like to call communism, but I think it's a tad more than is fair.

A little concept of govt, huh? Are you joking with me or are you a fucking retard? Communism is still around. Maoists are in Nepal trying to take over right now. The guys I lived with in my appartment are from there, and it's a pretty shitty situation over there right now. So please, give communism it's due.

Gasp! And pay homage to a system of government that's killed billions upon trillions? Never!

You must have missed my sarcasm. In comparison to millenia of entire peoples slaying each other with their concept of God on the brain, what a group of political parties and dictators have done to their own country over the past two centuries (and now) pales to a dirty white.