I-Mockery has turned into a racist shithole.

[Kalashnikov]

Guess it has gone from a funny site to a haven for the Black/Hispanic/Jew hating crowd. And it's sucks, since the content on the actual site is funny. Once you get into the forums, then unless you're white, you're gonna get a racial beat down. I know censorship sucks, but once people start offending and bashing people of color who are just trying to enjoy the site and have a good time, then it makes you think who are they REALLY trying to censor: the bigot, or the minority?

[Orange Juice Bruce]

We're just trying to censor people we don't like. Is that SO much to ask?

[Rongi]

Shut the fuck up, jerseybald.

[noob3]

WHITE PRIDE

[Les Waste]

WRONG JERSEYBOY :rolleyes

I-MOCKERY HAS ALWAYS BEEN RACIST :rolleyes

:rolleyes

[Mockery]

Guess it has gone from a funny site to a haven for the Black/Hispanic/Jew hating crowd. And it's sucks, since the content on the actual site is funny. Once you get into the forums, then unless you're white, you're gonna get a racial beat down. I know censorship sucks, but once people start offending and bashing people of color who are just trying to enjoy the site and have a good time, then it makes you think who are they REALLY trying to censor: the bigot, or the minority?

:confused

If you're serious, you're a complete idiot. Nobody on here is using any racial slurs seriously. If they were, I'd ban their ass in a heartbeat. The only reason they use slang is because it's so "shocking" to see in normal conversations. They're trying to get a rise out of people.

I do think it is being overused now, and as a result, it's predictable and fucking boring as hell to read posts by people who keep doing it... but they're not racists. They're just bored attention seekers.

-RoG-

[Evil Robot]

WOW! you sure are one hell of an activist! tell me, do you listen to rage against the machine?

Go attend a frivolous cuase protest you damn hippie.

[Kalashnikov]

"Hey, thats a great idea you filthy jewish ****** spic. I bet your dad was Amadou Diallo wasnt he?

Dead spics tend to smell bad if they decay

Meh, Jersey your dad was an inbred pureto rican who probably deserved to die for giving birth to a retard like you.

Puerto ricans are stealing all the good jobs around my area. They bought my house and 15 of them live there now. All my previous neighbors complain about them and say "how could you sell your house to somebody named Guzman?". They bring thier kids up from the bronx to go to suburban schools and not pay for it. they are all dirty spics and I consider you thier scapegoat.

I am aware of the irony of having to sell my home to a mud race, but on the other hand, I got to move to a more white area.

just the other day when the two spics that wash the windows at my building were having their lunch of beans and flat bread, i stopped by and said "man your crappy lunch makes me glad i am not some dirty window washing piece of latin crap"


I guess Puerto Ricans are not wanted here.

[James]

http://www.geocities.com/jamesman_x/Mockkk.txt

[Protoclown]

Kalashnikov, I would appreciate it if you would stop posting offensive racist bullshit. KTHXBYE! :)

[MrAdventure]

Your first mistake was coming here.

Your second was taking any of this shit seriously.

[Kalashnikov]

Proto, I'm just qouting other "mockers" here.

[James]

The third was being Puerto Rican.

See? Two NON RACIST reasons came before it.

[Evil Robot]

"Hey, thats a great idea you filthy jewish ****** spic. I bet your dad was Amadou Diallo wasnt he?
yeah, I think I covered all the bases with that one. by the way, I am filthy so dont think for one second that I only hate SOME people.

[Mockery]

Proto, I'm just qouting other "mockers" here.

What "mockers" are you quoting exactly... I'd like to see the thread.

[Kalashnikov]

The "Favorite Hobbies" thread here in General

[James]

I can't hate black people. I'm a black people myself!

http://www.geocities.com/jamesman_x/JamesNude.txt

[Anonymous]

Lying? That's it, young man.

You just wait until your father gets home.



:)

[Mockery]

C'mon, I know there are more racists out there on I-Mockery. Keep it comin'.

You were practically begging them to take the racial jokes further. They saw that as something that would get a rise out of you, and thus they continued. Their racial jokes are boring and so are you.

http://www.i-mockery.com/newpics/stfu.jpg

[Anonymous]

The reaction wasn't boring. :)

Not that I even made racial jokes, I'm having too much fun beating a dead dad.

[Kalashnikov]

No Mock. I was just exposing everyone here for the racist shitheads they truly are. It's happened before, and I was just sick of it. And no, I won't shut the fuck up. I won't shut up in the face of discrimination and racism. Ban me if you wish, but at least I took a stand.

[Evil Robot]

I love to use stereotypes. My favorite ones are Harmon cardon, SONY, and Fisher.

[Rongi]

Jerseybald, I do beleive mock said

http://www.i-mockery.com/newpics/stfu.jpg

[Mockery]

I don't ban people for not being able to understand sarcasm. Take all the "stands" you want, I couldn't care less.

[whoreable]

in case you havent realized people make fun of that shit only becasue it bothers you. they would have made fun of anything that you would have mentioned about yourself.

now stop being a fucking baby.

and dont say it doesnt bother you because it obviously does you fucking pussy.
________
Stroke forums (http://www.health-forums.org/stroke/)

[Anonymous]

B-But...how can he leave the forum now without looking like a pussy? :lol

*QUICK. WHAT WOULD YOUR DAD DO?


NO..NO..BESIDES DIE.

[Evil Robot]

he cant leave now he has to honor his father like some crazy Japenese guy.

[Rongi]

You guys are being awfully mean to someone with a dead dad :lol.

[James]

http://ibelgique.ifrance.com/cinedestin/films/u/unf/unflicalamaternelle.jpg

WHO IS YOUR DADDY AND WHAT DOES HE DO?

[Kalashnikov]

Well, I guess Martin Luther King's assasination was sarcasm too. I guess Amadou DiAllo's raping was sarcasm too. How about Hitler? Was he being sarcastic too? I guess we didn't see the joke in killing six million jews.

How making fun of a whole race of people? Making fun of their disadvantages and hardships? It's so easy to live in peaceful Virginia, have food on your table, and even own a computer and cool toys. How about the children in Mexico, South America, Africa? I guess it's funny to point out their poverty and harsh life, when you're living in such comfort.

[Evil Robot]

Amadou Diallo was the guy who got shot? I thought he was the guy who got shot after pulling out his wallet! Ah hell they all look alike anyway.

[Les Waste]

HEY GUYS IS IT JUST ME OR DOES AFRICA HAVE TOO MUCH AIDS?!?!

WTF IS WRONG WITH THOSE DARKIES?!?!

[Rongi]

Jamesman made me :lol

Jerseyboy, do as -RoG- tells you and

http://www.i-mockery.com/newpics/stfu.jpg

[Anonymous]

:boohoo

[Mockery]

Ok, I'm moving this thread to the politics forum. You guys have fun between the sarcastic racial remarks and Kalashnikov's desire to continue to debate something he just doesn't get.

:maul

[Evil Robot]

It's so easy to live in peaceful Virginia, have food on your table,

Food on the table? I dont even own a table.
Not all white people are that fortunate you little bitch. I have to work just as hard if not harder then people of other races, and I'm not eleigble for all the special treatment they can get here in the USA. I'm not saying I hate them for real, I'm only saying that your wrong in your asumption that there really is a "white conspiracy".
You hate white peple don't you? Thats being rascist.

[Protoclown]

Proto, I'm just qouting other "mockers" here.

I was making fun of you, tool.

[Rongi]

Face it Jerseybald, you lost this battle, no wait, this dumb war you've been fighting with us. You keep getting beaten like a slave in a nike shoe factory and coming back for more. Now go run upstairs and cry yourself to sleep you little bitch.

[Kalashnikov]

No, I don't hate white people. My girlfriend is a white girl born and raised in Pennsylvania. Some of my friends are white. So don't mistake my rants for white-hating reverse racism. I know the truth hurts.

[Rongi]

Jerseybald, I'm sorry to inform you this but girls don't have penises.

[Evil Robot]

theres duplicates of this thread now. I think were supposed to use the polotics forum one.
-ok nevermind

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Well, I guess Martin Luther King's assasination was sarcasm too. I guess Amadou DiAllo's raping was sarcasm too. How about Hitler? Was he being sarcastic too? I guess we didn't see the joke in killing six million jews.

How making fun of a whole race of people? Making fun of their disadvantages and hardships? It's so easy to live in peaceful Virginia, have food on your table, and even own a computer and cool toys. How about the children in Mexico, South America, Africa? I guess it's funny to point out their poverty and harsh life, when you're living in such comfort.

While I can sympathize with you Kal, and I too think the "******" and "jew" shit has gotten a bit out of hand, I think you need to lighten up a bit and realize the context of which these things are said.

Roger already said this, but most people on this board are NOT racists, anti-semites, whatever. They may have poor taste in humor, but that's not a crime in this world, it's an epidemic.

Also, I hate to pull out the old saying, but those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Look at your avatar. It depicts a violent image. I am offended by that. Look at the image in your sig, it has a marijuana leaf and the Soviet hammer & sickel next to Christ. Are you insinuating that Christ was a Stalinist who endorses the killing of millions of people? Are you implying that Christ was a drug addict? Well I'm offended.

My point is this: On a board that prides itself on holding nothing sacred, well, ....nothing is sacred.

[Protoclown]

Jerseyboy, the majority of I-Mockery is not racist as you seem to think. They're picking on you, you COMPLETELY opened yourself up for it and asked for it and they're just saying what they know will get a rise out of you. They know exactly what buttons to push and your reaction is just pathetic.

[Evil Robot]

what I dont understand is why he didn't pull out the posotive stereotypes about LATINO people and say his LATINO penis is bigger then even the biggest whitey penis.

[Protoclown]

Because his penis was cut off in a freak beartrap fucking accident.

[Kalashnikov]

If my avatar offends you, then stop playing videogames. As for my sig, it's supposed to be my personal belief that Jesus was a communist. Besides, why are you crying about me offending Christianity, when the organized Catholic church has had it's share in persecutions and bloodshed, just like any other brutal regime?

[Protoclown]

He was making a point, or could you not fucking SEE it through the cloud of marijuana smoke?

[Zero Signal]

If my avatar offends you, then stop playing videogames. As for my sig, it's supposed to be my personal belief that Jesus was a communist. Besides, why are you crying about me offending Christianity, when the organized Catholic church has had it's share in persecutions and bloodshed, just like any other brutal regime?
The Catholic Church is so far beyond the actual teachings of Christ that I consider it paganistic, ritualistic and dogmatic. Christ would rebuke it today if he witnessed it.

The flag of the Soviet Union is not a symbol of the dictionary concept of communism, but rather of the Iron Curtain Soviet concept of it. Communism on paper and what the Soviets practices are two COMPLETELY different things.

SELECT * FROM Kalashnikov WHERE Clue > 0
(0) rows returned.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

If my avatar offends you, then stop playing videogames.

I'm offended.

As for my sig, it's supposed to be my personal belief that Jesus was a communist.

Zero answered this, but yes, that logo doesn't mean communism. If anything it represents murder and oppression. I'm offended.

Besides, why are you crying about me offending Christianity, when the organized Catholic church has had it's share in persecutions and bloodshed, just like any other brutal regime?

Are you implying that a love of Christ entaild being Catholic? How do you know I'm not a Baptist? Are you saying it's all the same? I'm offended.

[Military Messiah]

If my avatar offends you, then stop playing videogames.

If racist comments offend you, then stop going to Klan rallies.

[Kalashnikov]

Look, Catholicism is just a different branch of Christianity. I was pointing out the horrors of the Inquisition, and other acts of intolerism. As for my views on Jesus being a communist, well he did try to equally feed everyone, as well as shunning hordes of riches and making a profit in his temple. I respect your views on Christianity, but everyone has his own version. That's just mine.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Look, Catholicism is just a different branch of Christianity. I was pointing out the horrors of the Inquisition, and other acts of intolerism. As for my views on Jesus being a communist, well he did try to equally feed everyone, as well as shunning hordes of riches and making a profit in his temple. I respect your views on Christianity, but everyone has his own version. That's just mine.

That doesn't mean Christ was a Communist. He was egalitarian, yes, but not necessarily a Communist. Calling the son of God a communist just might offend some people.

[Kalashnikov]

Well, my beliefs may offend some people. But what about yours? Doesn't your Christianity offend Muslims? Or Pagans? See, the thing about this world is HATE. What if these are my beliefs? So? Let them be my beliefs. Am I forcing them down your throat? No. Am I bashing you for believing the way you do? No. If seeing my sig offends you, then you're just some close minded individual who doesn't know how to accept variety and different views.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

See, the thing about this world is HATE. What if these are my beliefs? So? Let them be my beliefs. Am I forcing them down your throat? No.

A giant image likening Christ to Stalin isn't forceful?

Am I bashing you for believing the way you do? No. If seeing my sig offends you, then you're just some close minded individual who doesn't know how to accept variety and different views.

Right, I should be tolerant of Stalinism. Just like you should be tolerant of racism, anti-semitism, etc....

[Kalashnikov]

Well, I guess I'm going to have to burn down the church down the street, because I can hear them whenever they do outdoor services, and thats forcing their beliefs onto me, as well as blocking the view to the park. Do I bitch and whine? No. Would I complain about some guy coming to my house wearing a cross, just because they're depicting Jesus all bloody and beat-up? No. They don't affect me directly, so it doesn't bother me. Now, anti-semitism and racism is different, because they do affect us minorities directly. They are aimed at Us. At least you can look the other way. But what about me, who is being persecuted and shunned just for being hispanic? [/i]

[El Blanco]

1) Being a Catholic, I can tell yo uthat the Church isn't "paganistic". It is a little too caught up in dogma, but holding us accountable for the Inquisition today is like punishing every European you see for the Holocaust. Its not the church or the culture, its the specific people involved.

2) Jesus doesn't care what you do with your money as long as you aren't causing the suffering of others. He had no use for money. It is worldly and fleeting, so it has no place for Him.

3) People here aren't racists, they are assholes. Racist implies they are playing favorites. These idiots are all equal opportunity offenders.

[Kalashnikov]

People here aren't racists, they are assholes. Racist implies they are playing favorites. These idiots are all equal opportunity offenders.

Well, being white and making fun of minorities sure makes this site look like a Klan rally.

[The_Rorschach]

-They are aimed at Us. At least you can look the other way. But what about me, who is being persecuted and shunned just for being hispanic?

Persecuted and shunned? Are you Che Guevara all of a sudden?

If suffering through someone's misguided/monomaniacal posting is the worst form of persecution you ever suffer consider yourself lucky. Your martyrdom will be a long way in coming.

Secondly, you are not being shunned. If that were so, this thread would consist of a single post- yours.

[El Blanco]

People here aren't racists, they are assholes. Racist implies they are playing favorites. These idiots are all equal opportunity offenders.

Well, being white and making fun of minorities sure makes this site look like a Klan rally.


No, putting on a white robe and a hat with too much starch, then standing around a burning cross or a hanging black, spanish, jewish, gay, catholic, etc etc makes it a Klan rally.

And The_Rorschach is right. If this is message board is the biggest problem you face, consider yourself lucky and quit fucking whining.

[Zero Signal]

Well, being white and making fun of minorities sure makes this site look like a Klan rally.You are so sure that everyone here is white? :lol

[Evil Robot]

The_Rorschach :o
He's back!!!! :)

[El Blanco]

Rorschach. That sounds like a Jewish name. You aren't some dirty Jew are you? Cuz if you are, I got a nice big oven with your name on it.

[GAsux]

You guys are so fucking lame. Racism is so 1950s. Homophobia is where it's at. Damn faggots.

[AChimp]

I guess Puerto Ricans are not wanted here.
The only Puerto Rican I hate is the one that posts under the name Kalashnikov. >:

I find it extremely hypocritical that you are attacking the violence perpetrated by the Catholic Church while you have an AK-47 as your user pic.

I am offended. >:

[ItalianStereotype]

I am offended. >:

i am offended that you are offended. why cant you just blindly accept my beliefs and not think about it?

[El Blanco]

I am offended by Italians. At least, their smell offends me.

[AChimp]

Life would be much too simple that way. >:

You will be hearing from my lawyers. My Jewish lawyers. >:

[GAsux]

http://ads.pno.net/images/rg/6/mmow/albums/equalityrocks/hate1.gif

[El Blanco]

"AIDS CURES FAGS" That has got be the greatest protest sign I have ever seen

[ItalianStereotype]

I am offended by Italians. At least, their smell offends me.

me too, lets go kill us some wops

[AChimp]

Oh shit. :(

[ranxer]

jeeze, there's more to this place than the politics board!?

man, i really cant remember how i found this bunch of racist biggots..

but i do remember that when i first registered i named myself
HATEZEALOTS in honor of where i was logging into..

i've since found theres mostly white(seeming) but still an odd mix of idiots here.. and some not-so-idiotic folks.. i'm an idiot cause i keep coming back :/ i must be a bored attention seeker

several people here tried to hold yer hand kalish.. oh and i for one find yer rifle offensive..

actually i think i come back because i just cant stand being around people i agree with all the time.. THAT'S boring..

oh yea rifleman, you said:
"If my avatar offends you, then stop playing videogames. "
what the fuck is that supposed to mean?

and one more thing.. um, your violent attitude is misrepresenting that pot leaf >:

[El Blanco]

Not to mention the depiction of Christ in his sig too.

[Anonymous]

crap after that photo i am seriously considering changing my title to "FAG SHAME"

[Zero Signal]

crap after that photo i am seriously considering changing my title to "FAG SHAME"
If you do then the terrorists have already won. :(

[Alxcipher]

Perhaps Kal has a tiny little chip on his shoulder. "Help Help I'm being repressed."

[FS]

If my avatar offends you, then stop playing videogames.

:lol Military Messiah said it a little differently, but if this board offends you, then stop coming here. Actually, regardless, stop coming here. Whiny kraut.

[Tropical]

Well, I guess Martin Luther King's assasination was sarcasm too. I guess Amadou DiAllo's raping was sarcasm too. How about Hitler? Was he being sarcastic too? I guess we didn't see the joke in killing six million jews.
1)Did we assasinate your mom for giving birth to a pathetic shit like you?
2) Did we rape your sister?
3)Hey??? DID WE MASSACRE A HOARD OF NEWBIES? I sure hope we did.

[mburbank]

Kal, Jersey, whoever you are. I read a couple of pages, long enough to see that you are totally blind when nything being made fun of is outside your box. Kevin nailed you and you didn't even get he was just drawing a comparison.

A lot of the race baiting shit here isn't funny and that's it's worst sin. Not it's offensiveness, because paddling in the mud of offensiveness is the ONLY thing they're trying to do besides piss you off personally. I promise, if you'd posted "I really hate when someone uses the word "Blue" " You'd have gotten just as many poists saying "Don't be such a Blue blue, you son of blue. Blue, blue. Blue blue blue."

Is it dumb? Sure! Does it have any real content? No. Are you keeping it going? Absolutely. Is the righteous indignation you feel giving you a sense of definition? You tell me.

And stop being such a blue, you blue blue.

[george]

since i was directly qouted i will be the first (i hope) to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Ohh poor fucking puerto rican you. the racists are so mean to me!!!

that sure does not stop you from making gay jokes does it jersey? what makes you think your minority is any better than someone else's?

and as for all of us being white, sorry pal. i have a black grandfather, and am legally black according to the US government. try being a mix breed growing up in the late 80's and early 70's in this country. try adding on being poor. add on having a mother that had to live throught the horror of stalin starving out the Jews in Latvia (her adoptive fahter had to flee the country cause he got caught hiding and feeding Jews in the basement of his resteraunt and helping them get to the US). no one has ever given me a damn thing, so dont assume you know so fucking much about your tormentors.

racist humor amuses me. it amuses me more when a guy who will throw around fag and gay jokes or some other kind of hate, will cry like a bitch when you pick on his pet variety of human being.

i dont hate any race, i am too muddled in my own origins to do so without being a complete fraud. i just dont care, and racial/sexual humor amuses me cause it is the lowest level.

i do hate you though. you unfunny, self rightous piece of shit.

you should leave and never come back.

[Helm]

If anything it represents murder and oppression.

I am not easily offended with what I read in a place like this. Ignorance is however my weak point, and you just did a pretty good job offending me.

The communist hammer & sickle does not stand for one thing only. It doesn't stand for Stalinism just like the American Flag doesn't stand for McCarthyism. A flag is as good as the person carrying it, and many a great person carried the red flag before and after Stalin smeared it.

An intelligent person, such as you making such a claim indicates that intelligence isn't enough and there's a long way to go, based on historical research before one could responsibly judge a system of belief.

[Vibecrewangel]

I'm probably gonna get completely flamed for this by several newbies. But who really cares.

I am so sick of hearing how racist white people are. I am sick of hearing how white people do this and how white people do that. How white people have kept everyone else down. I am sick of what amounts to nothing more than racism aimed at white people.

It is time for over-sensitive little whiny-assed children to get up bandage their skinned knees and get on with life. They are so busy looking for racism that no matter where they turn there it is. STOP LOOKING FOR THE F'N PROBLEM!
If you keep looking for it it will find you.
If you have it so ingrained in your head that white people are racist you are always going to approach situations with them looking for the problem. And you will either create the problem yourself or overlook the fact that the majority of the situations you face with white people have nothing to do with race.

Think how white people feel in the following situations who is really being persecuted? Who is really being repressed?

You can have black pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have hispanic pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have asian pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have arab pride and be proud of your heritige
If you have white pride you are a racist

You are applying for college scholarships. You are the most qualified. But you are white. Someone of hispanic descent who is less qualified gets the scholarship.

White people have to be so damn PC in everything they say and do or be called racist. Look what happened to Abercrombie and Fitch with the asian inspired shirts. If one of the ghetto clothing lines made shirts like that depicting white people in similar circumstances it would not only be accepted it would be praised.

You know, I know a lot of white people who don't even know what to call people of any ethnic origin. They stutter and try to say things not to offend the people around them. They are so afraid that the ethnic people around them are going to take anything they say as racist. Is this because they are racist? NO It is because they are so used to ethnic people looking for racism that this is the only thing they know.

Stop looking for it and it will go away.


Does real racism still exist? Yes.
But white people aren't the only ones who are racist.
Take a look in the damn mirror and realize that you are pointing fingers at whites for a hell of a lot less than you do yourself.

[george]

VCA is back. and if ayone tries to flame you sweety, i will defend you to the end!!!!!! HOORAY!!!!

[Vibecrewangel]

HI GEORGE!!!!!

[george]

i sent you a private message ;)

are you doing OK? i am glad to see you back. we need more women around here. cause you smell good and are harder to make gay jokes about :)

[sadie]

YAH! where the fuck is my heritage? HUH?

[FS]

That was a fantastic rant! I feel exactly the same way. In fact, I have a chip on my shoulder about people of ANY race taking pride in their heritage, but let's not get into that.

Though, in my country, things are tipping a little over to the wrong side now. Ever since 9/11 people here have dropped the uber-PC act and started feeling comfortable expressing their fear (in all its ugly forms) for your ordinary, everyday muslim. Here's to hoping that'll sort itself out in the coming years. Political correctness is nice, but it's easily turned into a stranglehold.

Er, getting a bit off topic here, but at least we're still in the Philosophy forum. :sunglasses

[sspadowsky]

I think this applies here:
"Fuck patriotism. It's a round world last time I checked."
-Bill Hicks
________
Lamborghini 350gt (http://www.lamborghini-tech.com/wiki/Lamborghini_350GT)

[Vibecrewangel]

Political correctness is nice, but it's easily turned into a stranglehold.


Very well put!

[Zero Signal]

The communist hammer & sickle does not stand for one thing only. It doesn't stand for Stalinism just like the American Flag doesn't stand for McCarthyism. A flag is as good as the person carrying it, and many a great person carried the red flag before and after Stalin smeared it.
So you are saying that Lenin was a great person? Or Kruschev? :lol whatever

[Jixby Phillips]

No, I don't hate white people. My girlfriend is a white girl born and raised in Pennsylvania. Some of my friends are white.

OOOH LOOK AT ME I HAVE WHITE FRIENDS OWOOOHHH :rolleyes

[Helm]

So you are saying that Lenin was a great person?

Yes. And in any case, not a butcher.

[ItalianStereotype]

i think that lenin was genuinely looking out for his people (this from my admittedly limited knowledge of the subject) stalin was the maniacal asshole.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Relax Helm, I realize there's more to the flag than just Stalin, but I'd say Stalin did a good job of MAKING it represent terrible things. Sure, we can talk about the nice things Hitler did for pure Germans as Chancellor, does that still not make him a genocidal maniac in the eyes of history....?

And Lenin, just to be fair, was no saint either (but who is?).

[The_Rorschach]

James Madison :)

[Helm]

Okay I'll relax. Your analogy was off hawever. Hitler and his work was the glorification of fascism, it was fascism done 'right' so to speak. Stalin's pogroms were the deprivation of communism. The difference is substantial.

And I am not saying Lenin was a saint. I am saying he is a historically significant figure that stood for the red flag, and whose total historical input cannot be considered negative.

Anyway, I understand what you're saying, I just wish you wouldn't use such black & white examples, even when trying to make a point that's understandable by dumbfucks like Jerseylad.

[Zero Signal]

No Mock. I was just exposing everyone here for the racist shitheads they truly are. It's happened before, and I was just sick of it. And no, I won't shut the fuck up. I won't shut up in the face of discrimination and racism. Ban me if you wish, but at least I took a stand.
:boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo :boohoo

A symphony of apathy playing just for you!

[theapportioner]

VCA, read "A Theory of Justice" by the recently departed John Rawls.

You can have black pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have hispanic pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have asian pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have arab pride and be proud of your heritige
If you have white pride you are a racist

Though I think any self-identification based on a fiction such as race is silly, and not so good, VCA you're missing or downplaying the point. The difference is power, and it's as obvious as a cannonball to the face that caucasians dominate American society. Racism is -still- a serious problem, whether it is the classical 'i hate you nig' associated with the south or the less obvious, but still
pervasive arrogant, self-segregating white population of the north.

Not to mention, you lumping people into broad, sweeping categories such as 'asian' or 'hispanic' is also racism, I would say.

You are applying for college scholarships. You are the most qualified. But you are white. Someone of hispanic descent who is less qualified gets the scholarship.

Merit is -hardly- the only qualification for college admissions. Not just diversity, but also athletic prowess and legacies get people in, in spite of merit. No one is suing UMich because their football players get preferential treatment (it says so on their admissions calculation sheet), or Harvard because they let in some dumb-as-rocks blueblood named Tadd Winthrop because his family has been going to the big H since 1636. It's bloody hypocrisy.

Many college scholarships go to minorities, yes, but so what? This has nothing to do with AA.

[theapportioner]

Political correctness is nice, but it's easily turned into a stranglehold.

This is fucking crap. No one is burning down your house, or mutilating your genitals. All you are asked to do is change a few words you use in everyday language, and be a little more sensitive towards people who are sensitive to racism for whatever reason. Stop complaining.

[ItalianStereotype]

VCA, read "A Theory of Justice" by the recently departed John Rawls.


You can have black pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have hispanic pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have asian pride and be proud of your heritige
You can have arab pride and be proud of your heritige
If you have white pride you are a racist


Though I think any self-identification based on a fiction such as race is silly, and not so good, VCA you're missing or downplaying the point. The difference is power, and it's as obvious as a cannonball to the face that caucasians dominate American society. Racism is -still- a serious problem, whether it is the classical 'i hate you nig' associated with the south or the less obvious, but still
pervasive arrogant, self-segregating white population of the north.

Not to mention, you lumping people into broad, sweeping categories such as 'asian' or 'hispanic' is also racism, I would say.

that sounds suspiciously like communism/socialism to me....

you think race is a fiction? you are fucking ridiculous and pathetic. it is people like you who are destroying the west.

[theapportioner]

It -is- a fiction, retard. It's a social construction based on trivial genetic differences. And it is not necessarily a timeless thing -- much of our modern racist legacy stems not from slavery or the reconstruction, but from the racially-charged labor clashes between the Irish and Italian immigrants towards the blacks in the turn of the 20th century. Only then did "white" come to include the Irish, and especially the Italians. This is to illustrate how these identities develop, and change.

(Interesting note: Surprisingly, a pan-Irish identity did not really exist until the mass waves of immigration to the United States -- in Ireland, they had self-identified more with their communities and local counties or whatever, but they banded together after coming to America. I suspect it may be the same way with the Italians and other ethnicities here, but I don't know enough to comment on these.).

it is people like you who are destroying the west.

No, just trying to destroy the ass-backwards beliefs that are thwarting human progress.

[Anonymous]

I swear to christ on this new board every other post has the word retard in it

:boot


ANYWAY

Only then did "white" come to include the Irish, and especially the Italians.

yeah, I grew up being told the irish were "the blacks turned inside out"

[theapportioner]

I'm sorry. But this board just has so many -special- people.

[ItalianStereotype]

I'm sorry. But this board just has so many -special- people.

especially -people- who -talk- like you


i bet you also support a world state dont you...

[FS]

Not to mention, you lumping people into broad, sweeping categories such as 'asian' or 'hispanic' is also racism, I would say.

See, there you go. Literally, racism is making distinction between people of different ethnic groups. There's a thing practically everyone does. But would you agree with me that the word has been given a severely negative charge over the past fifty years or so? That is why I believe it shouldn't be tossed around so loosely. It makes it easier for people to be tempted to use it for their own gain. Let's reserve the word for when people are actually preaching negativity towards other races, and not everytime someone just uses the word "race". Focusing on, and searching for racism in everyday life seems to me only to sustain difficulties between people of different races. Fight it when it needs to be fought and don't go out looking for it.

Political correctness is nice, but it's easily turned into a stranglehold.

This is fucking crap. No one is burning down your house, or mutilating your genitals. All you are asked to do is change a few words you use in everyday language, and be a little more sensitive towards people who are sensitive to racism for whatever reason. Stop complaining.

Unscrew your ass. Why is it perfectly OK for a black man to make jokes about specific qualities of white people, but a white man can only make jokes about black people as long as he's praising their enormous penises or ability to dance? Because white ancestors did atrocious things to black ancestors, white people now have to bite their tongue for a few hundred years?

Before you throw a fit and start screaming HATE CRIME, hear me out:

Lighten the fuck up. How are we ever going to beat racism if we're actually so scared of other races that we're afraid to talk to them, about them or incorporate them into our life at all? It's not just racism that's my issue here - people take political correctness of all kinds too far these days. The moment you start examining something for "undertones of hate" or try to ban something because it might offend a group of people (particularly if you don't bother questioning representatives of this group about it), you take political correctness too goddamn far. FUCK political correctness. Let's make a good joke about Mexicans and if there's any of them around that feel offended, there's always the good old well-meant "sorry."

[Zero Signal]

There is nothing wrong with racism so much as it is PREJUDICE based on race. Everyone is racist, but carrying out actions based on that against people is where the bad comes into play.

[Helm]

That's bull. Racism exists because of the encouragment of stereotyping. The fact that this encouragment exits ensures that it will be acted upon, and will not remain an academic position. I have no idea where you get your info, but the notion that rasism as a method of belief is A-okay as long as you do not act upon it has a new one for me. And what exactly do you do with your beliefs other than act upon them, Zero Signal? Your point of view leads nowhere.

[Vibecrewangel]

Though I think any self-identification based on a fiction such as race is silly, and not so good, VCA you're missing or downplaying the point. The difference is power, and it's as obvious as a cannonball to the face that caucasians dominate American society. Racism is -still- a serious problem, whether it is the classical 'i hate you nig' associated with the south or the less obvious, but still
pervasive arrogant, self-segregating white population of the north.

I think that type of self identification is a huge part of the problem. And racist in itself.
I see Asian Pride shirts all the time. I see Latino Pride sirts all the time. I still see Black Pride shirts fairly often as well. But do I see Caucasian Pride shirts? HELL NO. THe person would be beaten or sued for being a racist or insensitive.
This is what I mean by look in the mirror.

Merit is -hardly- the only qualification for college admissions. Not just diversity, but also athletic prowess and legacies get people in, in spite of merit. No one is suing UMich because their football players get preferential treatment (it says so on their admissions calculation sheet), or Harvard because they let in some dumb-as-rocks blueblood named Tadd Winthrop because his family has been going to the big H since 1636. It's bloody hypocrisy.

Ok how about this. A white and a black are applying for a scholarship. They are completely identical in their applications, sports, leadership, you name it. The only difference is race. Guess who has the better chance of getting the scholarship?

This is fucking crap. No one is burning down your house, or mutilating your genitals. All you are asked to do is change a few words you use in everyday language, and be a little more sensitive towards people who are sensitive to racism for whatever reason. Stop complaining.

You know what...fuck that....stop being so damn sensitive. Try growing up. Most people don't mean anything remotly racist by using the words black or hispanic or asian to describe someone. It is the same as saying blond with blue eyes or red headed. It is the ones who take it as a racist remark who are actually racist themselves. And it doesn't matter what a person changes in their vocabulary some people are offended by the term black, other by african american. Or how about latino or hispanic or mexican? Which one of those is right?

And as for burning down houses or mutilating genitals.......
Trying being white and living in a predominantly hispanic or black neighborhood.
Again, look in the mirror.


Not to mention, you lumping people into broad, sweeping categories such as 'asian' or 'hispanic' is also racism, I would say.


And lumping all people with pale skin into WHITE isn't?
Hey look, there's that mirror again........

[Vibecrewangel]

[/quote]Focusing on, and searching for racism in everyday life seems to me only to sustain difficulties between people of different races. Fight it when it needs to be fought and don't go out looking for it. [/quote]

My point exactly.

[theapportioner]

Let's reserve the word for when people are actually preaching negativity towards other races, and not everytime someone just uses the word "race".

The reality in the United States is that the legacy of racism is perpetuated through institutions and through continued segregation, especially against african-americans. Fighting against overt racism is scratching the surface. More later.

Focusing on, and searching for racism in everyday life seems to me only to sustain difficulties between people of different races.

Fine rhetoric, but prove it. The difficulties are sustained because of institutionalized racism (banks, real estate, etc.), lingering cultural perceptions exacerbated by the legacy of segregation years ago, etc. If you -don't- focus on it, they will continue.

FUCK political correctness. Let's make a good joke about Mexicans and if there's any of them around that feel offended, there's always the good old well-meant "sorry."

It's one thing to do it in a relatively isolated and self-selecting forum where the culture of "mocking" is known and established (that is, people come here to mock), and where the participants are aware of the purpose and intentions of the jokes made. It's another matter to do it in a more public arena where people sensitive to such remarks may be around.

I find it shameful that people here are frothing at the mouth over this. It's so easy to change a few words you say. Why do people find it so inconvenient?

A white and a black are applying for a scholarship. They are completely identical in their applications, sports, leadership, you name it. The only difference is race.

You missed the point.

And lumping all people with pale skin into WHITE isn't?

Lumping people into categories such as 'asian' is insulting to those who would rather be associated with their ethnicity. It completely steamrolls over the sweeping cultural differences amongst asians -- i.e. Vietnamese versus Japanese. It's a peculiarly American tendency to look at everyone who is not European in origin as "the others".

For instance, the stereotype that all asians are smart violin players who are proficient in math, but have poor social skills. It's bunk, because many Vietnamese, Cambodians, etc. are struggling in schools.

More later.[/quote]

[Vibecrewangel]

A white and a black are applying for a scholarship. They are completely identical in their applications, sports, leadership, you name it. The only difference is race.


You missed the point.

Actually, I think you missed the point. Or are deliberatley ignoring it.



And lumping all people with pale skin into WHITE isn't? [/qoute]


[quote]Lumping people into categories such as 'asian' is insulting to those who would rather be associated with their ethnicity. It completely steamrolls over the sweeping cultural differences amongst asians -- i.e. Vietnamese versus Japanese. It's a peculiarly American tendency to look at everyone who is not European in origin as "the others".

For instance, the stereotype that all asians are smart violin players who are proficient in math, but have poor social skills. It's bunk, because many Vietnamese, Cambodians, etc. are struggling in schools.



On the issue of lumping....you seem to think it is perfectly fine to call all French, Canadian, English, German, Spanish, Russian etc white. While using the term Asian is insulting. What if white people want to be proud of their ethnicity. It is just as diverse as asian ethnicity.

Hypocricy at it's finest.

[ItalianStereotype]

actually vibe, i couldnt be happier that you are back, especially now.

[Vibecrewangel]

:love

[theapportioner]

Actually, I think you missed the point. Or are deliberatley ignoring it.

Don't you agree it's unfair that an athlete with lower grades, or someone whose family has a legacy, gets into the college of your dreams, and you don't? Wouldn't you be peeved? Which is worse -- that a priviledged scion with a 2.4 GPA in high school gets in, or a hardworking black student from inner city schools gets in? Yet, noone is complaining about the athletes or the legacies. Why race?

*This* is the point. If you truly espouse admissions by merit, then it behooves you to challenge the preferred admissions towards athletes and legacy matriculants. Attacking affirmative action in the way that you are attacking it (not saying that a.a. should be invulnerable to criticism) is racist, whether you realize it or not.

And, many *private* scholarships are specifically geared towards funding minority education. This is irrelevant to the affirmative action debate, since many scholarships are funded external to the university. Not to mention, there are scholarships for -everything-.

you seem to think it is perfectly fine to call all French, Canadian, English, German, Spanish, Russian etc white.

Americans (and I am speaking of Americans specifically) of Western European descent are so ethnically mixed that it's impossible to separate the large number of them into distinct minorities. Yet a Cambodian is lumped with a Japanese or a Tibetan or an Indian -- Asia (especially the Middle East), to the minds of most Americans, is a homogeneous cultural 'blob'. It's intentional cultural insensitivity and ignorance.

What if white people want to be proud of their ethnicity.

Yes, you've had it harsh, huh???? What-with racial profiling, Jim Crow laws, slavery, incarceration. The tough life.

[Vibecrewangel]

Don't you agree it's unfair that an athlete with lower grades, or someone whose family has a legacy, gets into the college of your dreams, and you don't? Wouldn't you be peeved? Which is worse -- that a priviledged scion with a 2.4 GPA in high school gets in, or a hardworking black student from inner city schools gets in? Yet, noone is complaining about the athletes or the legacies. Why race?

Because this thread is about race. I think any prefferential treatment to people who don't deserve it is unfair. And as I said....COMPLETELY EQUAL IN ALL THINGS BUT RACE.

And, many *private* scholarships are specifically geared towards funding minority education. This is irrelevant to the affirmative action debate, since many scholarships are funded external to the university. Not to mention, there are scholarships for -everything-.



In California there are no minorities. Just because you are of a different race does not make you a minority.
If there were scholarships geared towards whites what do you think would happen?

Americans (and I am speaking of Americans specifically) of Western European descent are so ethnically mixed that it's impossible to separate the large number of them into distinct minorities. Yet a Cambodian is lumped with a Japanese or a Tibetan or an Indian -- Asia (especially the Middle East), to the minds of most Americans, is a homogeneous cultural 'blob'. It's intentional cultural insensitivity and ignorance.

Where do you get your information? Sitcoms? Look at this board. Most of the people here seems to be able to distinguishg between the different cultures and races just fine. (See the argument about Jordan......) You are busy trying to pigeonhole all whites.
Who is the racist here?

Yes, you've had it harsh, huh???? What-with racial profiling, Jim Crow laws, slavery, incarceration. The tough life.

1) Our generation has never owned slaves. Your generation has never been slaves. Get over it. Move on. Better yourselves without excuses. There are more opportunities around for everyone than ever before. Get off your ass, stop playing oh poor me and get on with life.

2) There are more laws in place CURRENTLY that protect those not white.

3) I am not completely white. I am 1/2 Native American. Couple that with being a bisexual female. You want to talk about minority?

Some of us are living in the here and now. Living our lives. Not blaming anyone for the sins of the past. No one today can be held acountable for what was done before they were born.

GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

[The_Rorschach]

Because this thread is about race. I think any prefferential treatment to people who don't deserve it is unfair. And as I said....COMPLETELY EQUAL IN ALL THINGS BUT RACE.

You can't have it both ways, either you support true equality, or you don't. There is no middle ground on an issue like this. Personally, I believe in the merit of the individual, and therefore true equality in everything. Including race.

In California there are no minorities. Just because you are of a different race does not make you a minority.
If there were scholarships geared towards whites what do you think would happen?

There are minorities in California, or else the DMV, Voter Registration and Board of Education would not see fit to ensure that all forms are provided in languages other than English. It is our national language, and no others would be needed except to meet the needs of MINORITIES. I don't use the term judgementally, save that they obviously are not the majority regardless of how numerous such individuals are.

Where do you get your information? Sitcoms? Look at this board. Most of the people here seems to be able to distinguishg between the different cultures and races just fine. (See the argument about Jordan......) You are busy trying to pigeonhole all whites.
Who is the racist here?

Actually, he's making a very valid point. Genetically speaking, Americans are mutts. We choose which cultural identity we wish for ourselves and embrace it, just as we choose which lies we are going to believe and live by them. On my mother's side I can trace my line three generations back to County Cork, but that doesn't mean anything, because Ireland has been occupied by British for hundred of years, and previous to them, it was a holding for the Viking for about eight hundred.

2) There are more laws in place CURRENTLY that protect those not white.

Name three.

3) I am not completely white. I am 1/2 Native American. Couple that with being a bisexual female. You want to talk about minority?

Bisexuality is a choice. Race and gender is not, I don't believe it can be considered on the same level. Secondly, I suppose this undermines your 'No Minorities Exist' theory above then doesn't it?

[theapportioner]

Because this thread is about race. I think any prefferential treatment to people who don't deserve it is unfair.

Then lead the fight against legacy acceptees. Here's the baton.

Most of the people here seems to be able to distinguishg between the different cultures and races just fine. (See the argument about Jordan......)

See the National Geographic questionaire, the results of which were recently published. Regardless of the education of the people in this philosophy forum (what, 30 regulars?), 200 million plus Americans don't know shit about the rest of the world.

Get off your ass, stop playing oh poor me and get on with life.

I'm doing quite fine with my life, thanks.

So you are 1/2 native american -- my apologies for assuming otherwise. But don't assume that I care personally about my own ethnic heritage, or "race", because I don't.

No one today can be held acountable for what was done before they were born.

In a society, everyone has the responsibility to extinguish society's sins, past or present. Events end, but the cultural memory and social stratification persist. Go to Cleveland, or Detroit, if you haven't already. And people are -still- discriminated against, even today -- psychological study after study reaffirms the existence of unconscious prejudices, even today. You cannot deny that others -are- hurt by racism, even if you are not. The words are painful for some -- if you want to look at it clinically, hate crimes have been shown to cause more emotional damage than non-hate crimes. All the more reason for vigilance.

[Vibecrewangel]

You can't have it both ways, either you support true equality, or you don't. There is no middle ground on an issue like this. Personally, I believe in the merit of the individual, and therefore true equality in everything. Including race.

I will repeat "I think any preferential treatment to people who don't deserve it is unfair."
You are saying the same exact thing I did.


There are minorities in California, or else the DMV, Voter Registration and Board of Education would not see fit to ensure that all forms are provided in languages other than English. It is our national language, and no others would be needed except to meet the needs of MINORITIES. I don't use the term judgementally, save that they obviously are not the majority regardless of how numerous such individuals are.

Sorry, I forgot, Race=minority.


Bisexuality is a choice. Race and gender is not, I don't believe it can be considered on the same level. Secondly, I suppose this undermines your 'No Minorities Exist' theory above then doesn't it?

1)The argument over sexual orientation is a whole other matter. As someone who has been equally attracted to both male and female since grade school, I can say it was never a choice. It just was.
2) It is called angry sarcasm. I was being accused of talking about how tough I as a white had it. I was pointing out that as a minority (based on what he/she was calling a minorty) I had it tougher than most other "minorities"
I still make no excuses, I have never used my race to get me anything. I despise people who do.
EARN IT!

Name three.

Education Code §§ 87100-87107 require the governing board of each community college district to establish an affirmative action plan (with goals and timetables) to hire and promote "persons who are underrepresented in the work force compared to their number in the population, including handicapped persons, women, and persons of racial and ethnic backgrounds" with respect to administrative, faculty, and other positions.


Government Code § 16850 requires the State Treasurer to meet a goal of awarding not less than 15% of the annual value of professional bond services contracts to minority-owned firms and not less than 5% to women-owned firms.

In selecting contractors to perform this work, Public Contract Code §§ 10115-10115.15 forbid the Department from limiting its selection criteria to the lowest bid. Instead, those laws require state agencies or departments to establish a goal that 15% of the value of the contract work will be provided to minority-owned businesses and 5% of the value to women owned-businesses. Contracts are then let to the lowest bidder who meets this goal or who, in the discretion of the agency, has made good faith efforts to meet the goal. Pub. Cont. Code § 10115.2(a); 2 Cal. Code of Regs. § 1896.63(b).

These requirements "have the practical effect of requiring" prime contractors to adopt bid preferences and set asides for women- and minority-owned businesses. these statutes "effectively encourage, if not compel, [prime contractors] to adopt discriminatory programs." Bras v. California Public Utilities Commission, 59 F.3d 869, 875 (9th Cir. 1995).


Protecting "minorities" is one thing, but showing preferntial tratement to them simply because of race (or gender or religion or...or...or..) is unfair.

[FS]

apportioner, my problem is that political correctness ISN'T as simple as changing or not using a few words. If it were, I wouldn't be having a problem with the extremities in which it can be applied. My problem is that some people start to question whether or not I'm a racist the moment I even so much as mention an ethnic group of people, especially if I attribute a potentially negative quality to them. I have to pretend every person looks the same to me while people of other ethnic groups will not (this is not meant as fingerpointing). In my country, for a long period of time, it was taboo to publish figures that stated clear as glass that certain groups of immigrants were largely involved in crime. What the fuck is that? Political correctness should not adjust the truth.

The mere fact that I do not want to discriminate should clear me. I can't look at a black man and not notice he's black, but I can treat him like every other person, no better and no worse. That should be enough.

Today, people will look into a movie or book to find "undertones of racism". Maybe I'm naive, but why would a writer or director try to hide racial prejudice in his work? To snicker malignantly when he sees people watch or read it? So political correctness sets the line between joke and reality. If someone is willing to apologize for offending a person, then he probably wasn't trying to offend them in the first place. Alright, that won't change that sometimes people get offended. But when did that start becoming a cause of national concern?

I agree that ethnic groups who have been done wrong in the past should be given aid now to be brought to an equal level with western whites. And yes, certain people have to remain vigilant to prevent employers and social institutes to treat everyone fairly. But that does not involve watching over me to ensure I don't "offend" anyone.

And uh, Ror, let's not bring the case of sexuality and choice into this as well. :P

[The_Rorschach]

I will repeat "I think any prefferential treatment to people who don't deserve it is unfair."
You are saying the same exact thing I did.


Actually, I'm not. I'm saying noone deserves it, and that it is unfair period. I make no excepts, which you seem to hint at.


Sorry, I forgot, Race=minority.

That was the assumption, this thread is about race after all. You said so yourself. Race does is not the only qualifying means for minority status, however, it is one of the easiest. Denying that such groups exist will not make their integration with American culture any easier or swifter.

1)The argument over sexual orientation is a whole other matter. As someone who has been equally attracted to both male and female since grade school, I can say it was never a choice. It just was.

Children in grade school also feel the inclination to lie, steal and deride one another. Controlling one's self, and one's urges, is part of growing up. Forgive me, VCA, I'm not attempting to assert that I see anything wrong or unnatural with homosexuality, however, I don't believe that those so inclined should see themselves as victums of their urges either.

2) It is called angry sarcasm. I was being accused of talking about how tough I as a white had it. I was pointing out that as a minority (based on what he/she was calling a minorty) I had it tougher than most other "minorities"
I still make no excuses, I have never used my race to get me anything. I despise people who do.
EARN IT!

Thats a rather silly statement, over all, Californians have it easier than most Americans. It's an extremely liberal and open minded state, for instance, Berkeley has few requirements in regards to General Education Requirements, save for a coarse in Multicultural Understanding. That says quite a bit.

Education Code §§ 87100-87107 - Passed in 1998

Government Code § 16850 - Also passed in 1998

Obviously our society has not reached the point of true tolerance yet or these laws would be older, if not ommitted completely.

[Vibecrewangel]

I like you.

You are saying things a bit better than I am.
I'm doing this in between processing Visas and running payroll for my postdocs.

All I am trying to say is that race, like any other classification should not be used as a basis for preferential treatment.

It should also not be used as a basis for any negative treatment.

Both sides of that line promote racisim in it's worst form.

[FS]

I'm not attempting to assert that I see anything wrong or unnatural with homosexuality, however, I don't believe that those so inclined should see themselves as victums of their urges either.

Are you a victim of heterosexuality? :/ How about you're not a victim nor making a conscious choice, but it's just what you are?

[Vibecrewangel]

Actually, I'm not. I'm saying noone deserves it, and that it is unfair period. I make no excepts, which you seem to hint at.

Where do I hint at it?

I don't believe that those so inclined should see themselves as victums of their urges either.

Does this mean being straight is just an urge as well?
I hate the victim complex. It is just an excuse. A crutch.


Obviously our society has not reached the point of true tolerance yet or these laws would be older, if not ommitted completely.

Many of these laws are put in/stay in place because some people are still crying over the past or imagined slights. See what FS said.
What is the term I heard earlier? Apologists?
I'm sick of it.

[Vibecrewangel]

Sorry, wasn't ignoring you

Then lead the fight against legacy acceptees. Here's the baton.

We dont have much if any of that at Stanford. (Though I may not know it) Your grades have to be up there. Even if Stanford is the butt of many jokes these days....
We still take only the top 4% academically and that includes our athletes.


See the National Geographic questionaire, the results of which were recently published. Regardless of the education of the people in this philosophy forum (what, 30 regulars?), 200 million plus Americans don't know shit about the rest of the world.

And many of those Americans are not white. We are a sad lot over all.

[The_Rorschach]

All I am trying to say is that race, like any other classification should not be used as a basis for preferential treatment.

It should also not be used as a basis for any negative treatment.

Which I think is what you both were arguing, and myself as well after my own fashion. I would also like to see a day when people regard one another as equals regardless of incorporated variables such as race, religion, economic standing or education - And though that day is far off in coming, we can only get there if we get rid ourselves of such crutches as racial favouritism.

FatSatan: Are you a victim of heterosexuality? How about you're not a victim nor making a conscious choice, but it's just what you are?

I am of Irish descent. I cannot change it through denial or restraint, however, I can control my heterosexuality. I can be abstinate, or homosexual, or prey on small animals too slow to escape me. If something can be avoided, and it is not, it is chosen. That is why I see it as I do.

[Vibecrewangel]

And though that day is far off in coming, we can only get there if we get rid ourselves of such crutches as racial favouritism.


Totally.

I never went to college. I couldn't afford too. I did receive scholarships once I started marking Native American on my applications, but I just coudn't do it. I actually got pysically sick.

[The_Rorschach]

I would encourage you to take advantage wherever you can. There are too few clear sighted individuals out there with the education to back up their views. I'm not sure if I am one of them yet, but you certainly show the potential.


I realize this is a bit off the mark, but my philosophies have been straying towards the more Nietzsche end of the spectrum of late. I think perhaps, the ends can justify the means. All too often I see good efforts fail for their lack of duplicity.

[Vibecrewangel]

You sound like my boyfriend......and my family.......

[The_Rorschach]

I'll take that as a compliment :)

[Vibecrewangel]

It was. :)

[FS]

I am of Irish descent. I cannot change it through denial or restraint, however, I can control my heterosexuality. I can be abstinate, or homosexual, or prey on small animals too slow to escape me. If something can be avoided, and it is not, it is chosen. That is why I see it as I do.

Hmm. Yes, but that's only taking sexual activity into consideration. I'm not having a lot of sex, but that doesn't mean I'm not a heterosexual. Sexual orientation/preference, despite the wording, is not based on sex, but on attraction. You say you can be homosexual, but that's not true. You can have sex with men, yes, but you can't be sexually and emotionally attracted to men to the point that you'd want a phsyical or emotional relationship with them - unless you're homosexual or bisexual. At least, this is how I see it.

[Vibecrewangel]

I am actually more attracted to women then men. I like the curvy bits......

[The_Rorschach]

I can grant you that point, however, one cannot be judged upon feelings or thoughts which they do not express. In the case of homosexuality, if the feeling or inclination is never acted upon, never expressed, then there will be no consequences.

It is the behaviour itself which prompts the reaction of discrimination, rather, it is not homosexuality itself which is discriminated against, but homosexual actions. For that reason, I say it is a choice.

[sspadowsky]

I can grant you that point, however, one cannot be judged upon feelings or thoughts which they do not express. In the case of homosexuality, if the feeling or inclination is never acted upon, never expressed, then there will be no consequences.

It is the behaviour itself which prompts the reaction of discrimination, rather, it is not homosexuality itself which is discriminated against, but homosexual actions. For that reason, I say it is a choice.

This could quite possibly be the dumbest thing you have ever said in your entire life. Choice, my lily-white ass. I'm sure that all homosexuals chastise themselves daily for acting on thier impulses. "Damn this social ostracization and mass-condemnation! If only I had never fucked a man in the ass, I wouldn't be in this quandary!"

I'm not kidding, Ror. Go back and re-read what you wrote, and try to spot the total lack of logic. I'm not trying to be an outright prick here, man. I'm honestly dumbfounded by the stupidity of your statement.
________
Uggs (http://uggstoreshop.com/)

[The_Rorschach]

Think about it Sspad. This is no different than the fat fuckers in denial of their own responsibility for their weight gain and instead attempting to sue McDonalds.

I'm not saying the choice is wrong, or invalid, or makes them less of a person. . .But it is willful. Everyone has to take responsibility for what they do. Not the feelings which inspire the actions, but the action itself.

Or do you think criminals have no choice in breaking the law? That murderers have no choice but to kill? How is this any different?

What if a priest said "Damn this social ostracization and mass-condemnation! If only I had never fucked a six year old boy in the ass, I wouldn't be in this quandary!"

[Paul138]

I've got an idea. Let's be racist against the Blue Man Group. If people feel inferior by having a small penis and being around a different color, who wouldn't hate them?

[sspadowsky]

Think about it Sspad. This is no different than the fat fuckers in denial of their own responsibility for their weight gain and instead attempting to sue McDonalds.

I'm not saying the choice is wrong, or invalid, or makes them less of a person. . .But it is willful. Everyone has to take responsibility for what they do. Not the feelings which inspire the actions, but the action itself.

Or do you think criminals have no choice in breaking the law? That murderers have no choice but to kill? How is this any different?

What if a priest said "Damn this social ostracization and mass-condemnation! If only I had never fucked a six year old boy in the ass, I wouldn't be in this quandary!"

There's a big difference between someone eating at McDonald's and being gay. The impulse to have sexual intercourse, be it straight or gay, is perfectly natural, and a part of all of us. This is a totally weak comparison, Ror. You have to do a lot better than that.

Same with the comparison to murderers and child-molesters, Ror. Incidentally, I think these comparisons of yours are awfully telling as far as your subconscious is concerned. The urge to kill someone and the urge to fuck someone are way, WAY different. Two men or two women who have consensual sex with one another is quite different than me blowing your head off for disagreeing with me, and different from wanting to fuck small children.

Gotta go. Back later.
________
BODY SCIENCE (http://bodyscience.ws/)

[ItalianStereotype]

not that this is on topic or anything, but the urge to kill is natural, the urge for hetero sex is natural, but the urge for homo sex is arguable.

i agree with ror here, you are judged by your actions, not the emotions, thoughts, beliefs, or reasons fueling them.

[Vibecrewangel]

not that this is on topic or anything, but the urge to kill is natural, the urge for hetero sex is natural, but the urge for homo sex is arguable.


As someone who feels both hetro and homo sexual urges, I can tell you they are both natural and real. Unfortunately, we have been taught for a long long time that homosexual feelings aren't natural.
Many animals have homosexual urges as well.

[Miss Modular]

Many animals have homosexual urges as well.

This is what I was about to say.

[ranxer]

dang whered kal go? ..i still want to know what the hell he meant by 'if you dont like my avatar then stop playing video games'

people ARE animals
from the research ive seen homosexuality increases in percent with population crowding.. of course its everpresent in most species.. some think its a natural population control factor

[Protoclown]

I dig the black girls, oh so much more than the white girls.
I was so pleased to learn they were faster.
C'est, c'est, c'est vous I'm after.

[Zero Signal]

Evolution would say that homosexuality is NOT natural, because it does not serve to perpetuate the species. Just an observation. Not that I believe in evolution; I think it's a crock of convoluted shit.

[theapportioner]

"Natural" in this case does not necessarily mean genetic.

And just how is evolution a "crock of convoluted shit"????

[ItalianStereotype]

he might be a creationist, which i am. not one of those silly fucks that thinks the earth was created 5000 years ago, though.

natural doesnt necessarily mean genetic, but too many people take the definition of natural and twist it to meet their standards. any way you look at it, homosexuality is not natural in biological terms.

[Zero Signal]

I am a creationist, but at the same time, even if I was a die-hard atheist, the theory of evolution is too illogical and too full of holes for me to believe. I'm sure you think the same about creationism, but that is not the issue here.

Yes, Italian, those people that believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago are idiots. I am someone that believes that science and creationism are not diametrically opposed. I believe the Earth is as old as science says it is.

But I cannot for one second find anything credible in the theory of evolution. I do believe in microevolution, but not that everything came from a single-celled organism.

The odds were calculated well into the trillions against it (I wish I could remember where I saw that). Anyway, back to the previous dicussion, already in progress.

[The_Rorschach]

Same with the comparison to murderers and child-molesters, Ror.

Actually, no its not. Homosexuality is an aberration from the norm, and so is child molestation, beastiality and the like. In fact, it is no different save in its acceptability within society. It is an inclination that is given in to, and not strictly natural. You mentioned my subconscious earlier so I will assume you know a bit about psychology - Therefore I will also assume you know that in most documented cases of studied homosexuality, it is (according to modern pundits, and not myself) not a biological need finding fulfillment, but experiences from early childhood raising and handling which have affected the individuals sexual desires.

You cite animals as a case for it being 'normal,' but I believe that is putting our standards for human behaviour rather low. Besides, animals are not strictly homosexual, and generally couple with the same gender out of lack of alternative, or seeking immediate gratification.

[theapportioner]

Whether or not homosexuality is biological or social (I personally think it consists of both, and that it's too complex to reduce it to one component or the other) -- what is the harm? It's not like they're gassing Kurds.

[theapportioner]

The odds were calculated well into the trillions against it (I wish I could remember where I saw that).

Darwin's Black Box, by Michael Behe.

I haven't read it, but there are plenty of rebuttals to the text, so I'd hardly call the burden proved on your point.

[Zero Signal]

I haven't read it, but there are plenty of rebuttals to the text, so I'd hardly call the burden proved on your point.
You haven't read it but you are keen to make judgements against it anyway. Fantastic! :rolleyes

My favorite flaw in evolution is that there are only tertiary fossils and no fossils whatsoever that show progression. They've got a lizard and a bird, and something that's like a combination, but nothing at all in between. I guess they all just changed overnight. :lol

[theapportioner]

You haven't read it but you are keen to make judgements against it anyway. Fantastic!

A quick google search points to hundreds of rebuttals. Make that a validated judgment.

Paleontology is not my specialty (nor yours, I assume), but it's amazing how the same few tired criticisms stay around in creationist circles. It's like these people can never learn. The absence of transitional fossils in so-called higher organisms is explained nicely by Stephen Jay Gould's theory of punctuated equilibria, which is a modification of classical evolutionary theory.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Okay I'll relax. Your analogy was off hawever. Hitler and his work was the glorification of fascism, it was fascism done 'right' so to speak. Stalin's pogroms were the deprivation of communism. The difference is substantial.

Do you honestly think that genocide is a staple in the fascist ideology. Just like Stalin's communism, fascism merely has the potential to lead to oppression, murder, and genocide.



And I am not saying Lenin was a saint. I am saying he is a historically significant figure that stood for the red flag, and whose total historical input cannot be considered negative.

Fine, but much like we can't forget the holocaust when looking at the German flag, we likewise can't forget the fear, death, and persecution that came out of the Soviet regime. And Zero made a good point, the poor record didn't end with Stalin.

Anyway, I understand what you're saying, I just wish you wouldn't use such black & white examples, even when trying to make a point that's understandable by dumbfucks like Jerseylad.

Right, but the point I was making however was that the things that often offend people are highly subjective, and one man's evil can be another man's good. Hence my "black & white" example.