Question for Vince Zeb

[Miss Modular]

Do you know anyone who's actually poor personally?

Just wondering.

[Anonymous]

or rich

[VinceZeb]

Yeah. Me.

I make just above the poverty line. By definition, I am considered poor.

[Zhukov]

Are you also starving by "definition"?

[Immortal Goat]

If that is the case, Vince, then you should be as pissed as anyone about our Fearless Leader's tax cuts.

[VinceZeb]

From the tax cuts, I got an average of 2 bucks that I get to keep that the government wont get. After my tax "rebate" with zero deductions, I have paid less than one would pay for an average video game console with the trimmings.

Why should I be mad for not getting back more money than I paid in? I do have to pay my fair share, but my fair share should not include paying for people who were irresponsable.

[Immortal Goat]

But rich people are getting back more money than THEY put in. What makes them so much more deserving of more money? Oh, wait, NOTHING! They don't need more money, the less fortunate do. Why should poorer people get the shaft while richer people can lounge about in even MORE money. That money COULD be put to good use in some other ways if you dont want to give it to the poor, like ficing up the inner-cities and such, or creating education opportunities for people from lower-income families. Tell me, Vince, what could be wrong with that?

[mburbank]

Seems you have plenty of time to parade around I-mock, you limp, cowardly idiot.

Is this the "Something constructive" you were refering to when you turned your cowardly tail and ran like the scuttling little invertabrate you are, you hideous little Boortzhole?

Oh, poor wittle Vinth is jus' above the poverty line! What 'poverty line' might that be, Vinth? See now, I'm just worried maybe your making it up. What's your annual salary? And what is the government deffinition of poverty for a single, unimpaired young man? I mean, I'm sure you have those facts right at your formerly pudgy finger tips, don't you?

[VinceZeb]

But rich people are getting back more money than THEY put in. What makes them so much more deserving of more money? Oh, wait, NOTHING! They don't need more money, the less fortunate do. Why should poorer people get the shaft while richer people can lounge about in even MORE money. That money COULD be put to good use in some other ways if you dont want to give it to the poor, like ficing up the inner-cities and such, or creating education opportunities for people from lower-income families. Tell me, Vince, what could be wrong with that?

1) How do the rich get back more than they put in? If x amount of money is taken out of their check, and then they have to pay y amount out pocket AFTERWARDS, how do they get back more than they paid?

2) THE MONEY YOU WANT TO SPEND ON THE POOR ISNT YOUR FUCKING MONEY TO SPEND, ASSHOLE! Why don't you understand that. If Joe Millionaire wants to give money away, then by all means let him, but dont FORCE him to GIVE his money to a government that will decide how it should be spent for him! Tell me how THAT is right.

[kellychaos]

Oh, poor wittle Vinth is jus' above the poverty line! What 'poverty line' might that be, Vinth? See now, I'm just worried maybe your making it up.

Vinth is topical chameleon (Re: Submariner ;) )

[Immortal Goat]

Do you have any idea as to WHAT Dubya's tax cut is all about? The rich get less money taken out of their checks and they also get a hefty income tax return. How is that fair? And if the money IS taken out of taxes, then it BECOMES the government's, and they can spen it however they damn well please. And it SHOULD be spent on the programs I mentioned above, not on our non-essential wars with countries that are filled with the people that, looking at your statements in another thread, are lazy, and THAT is why they are poor. Ignorant little twat.

[mburbank]

THE MONEY YOU WANT TO SPEND ON THE POOR ISNT YOUR FUCKING MONEY TO SPEND, ASSHOLE! Why don't you understand that.
-Vinth Clambake

No. It is our money, given to the government through a legal tax system. The money you want to spend on wars isn't your money, Vinth. The money for bridges and roads and the CDC and Trent Lotts salary aren't your money. The money it cost for Bush to play jet pillot isn't your money, or the money that built that jet or the carrier it landed on. It's all our money, it belongs to the United States of America and it's government by and for and of the people. Why don't you understand that?

Find me one single person who agrees with the destination of every penny in their tax bill. You think your taxes should go only to things you want done. The system your looking for isn't representative democracy, it's monarchy with you as king.

Look at you dancing like a spastic moneky on an ant hill becuase of your tax bill. I promise you, more of my taxes (and I pay more than you, Vinthy, uness you were lying about how close to the poverty line you are) goes to things I'd really rather it didn't. That's America buddy. Don't like it? Work to change the law, but for God's sake, stop your whinning. It's not manly.

Now. Since you have plenty of time to discuss this here, shall we cut it and paste it at Newsfilter?

[VinceZeb]

http://aspe.os.dhhs.gov/poverty/03poverty.htm

Max, do I have to do all your fucking work for you?

[VinceZeb]

Max, you are a fucking simpleton. Is the government wanting more tax money for roads? Nope. Is it wanting more money from our pockets for war in a time of peace? Nope.

IT WANTS MONEY SO IT CAN GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE "LESS FORTUNATE" SO THEY WILL VOTE FOR THEM! Is it that hard to fucking understand, you knuckle dragging fuck? We are taking money out of our pockets to give to old geezers who want to government to pay for drugs that they could pay for with the discresional income they have, which btw is the HIGHEST out of the age groups! We are talking money out because dumbshit teenagers refused to abstain or protect themselves during sex and they are producing babies they CANNOT AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF! Why is this train of logical so fucking hard to understand?!?

[Protoclown]

Vince, you're getting your ass kicked over at newsfilter. You might want to go take care of that.

[mburbank]

Vince, I'm sorry, I'm way too busy over at Newsfilter to talk to you right now. Why don't you go to the back of the line?

[Zhukov]

Vince! You are not poor!

You work hard, remember?

Only lazy people are poor - you are not lazy or stupid or fat - you are an achiever.

Don't be so modest, you must be the richest fucking bastard in the world! You work so damn hard, and hard workers are never poor.




Don't sell yourself short, you lazy fat fuck..

[AChimp]

Um, Vinth... since you said you are barely living above the poverty line, and since you live in/around St. Louis, AND since you are a family unit of 1, that means you're just barely making over $8980.

To be fair, I will assume that you are making closer to $10K, since you said you are above that poverty line...

I thought that you had a good job at a private school, you minimum wage making pansy. Hell, I make more than you and that's taking into account the exchange rate. :lol

Why aren't you out there struggling to better yourself instead of whining about where your taxes go?

[VinceZeb]

Achimp, did I ever say how much I make.... hmm, maybe it is none of your goddamn business, ever think of that?

And I said I make just above the poverty line, I never defined what just above is, now did I.

I will tell you this, I hardly make minimum wage.

Zhuk, I work hard to get the skills and education that I need to make an employer give me more money for my skills. That is the way it works.

[Anonymous]

ok I have a question
and before I ask it I will state that I suck at math, so if I am wrong please correct me

but... according to that....
if a single person makes minimum wage, and works full time, they would be at the poverty level
how the hell can minimum wage equal poverty and not be considered something like slave labor?

not to mention what they had on that chart for whole families

[mburbank]

Oh, hell, let me throw you bone, Goofy. I can debate you both places, it's not exactly hard.

If everything you say above is true, are you sorry you voted for Bush? And certainly you don't intend to vote for him again? HE'S a THIEF, right?

Hows that for you train of LOGICAL??!?!?!

[kellychaos]

By Vinth's own logic, Zhukov is right. If work hard always makes you money AND lazy people just are not trying hard enough, Vinth must be a really lazy fuck* because he's just above the poverty line ... and I know that he's really, really smart :rolleyes :wank ... How can that be? :eek

* P.S. I'll throw in fat too (based on my own suspicions).

[AChimp]

Vinth, you implied how much you make when you said "just above." Or are you going to start splitting hairs about that, as well?

"My name in Vinth, and I make just above the poverty line, but I'm not going to tell you what just above means."

Fine, then. We will do the math and figure it out.

Missouri's minimum wage is $5.15/hour.

5.15 * 40 hours a week * 51 weeks (takes into account holidays) = $10506

That's almost $2000 above the poverty line.

Zhuk, I work hard to get the skills and education that I need to make an employer give me more money for my skills.
You must not be doing a good job if you're "barely making minimum wage." You see, either your employer is breaking the law or the private school you work at makes less than $500 000 in business per year. I don't see how any school could operate on a budget of only $500K per year, pay teachers, and so forth unless it only had a handful of students... how elite!

I can only conclude that you're not trying hard enough to better yourself, Vinth. Or you are full of shit.

[VinceZeb]

Hardwork is a main factor in how much you can produce and how much a boss will pay you for your services. I make pretty decent money for my job skills. I'm working now to improve my job skills and education so I can get more money. That is how it works, kelly.

Christ, Kelly, were you one of those people that joined the military because you were directionless? By your incoherent ranting and leftist screeds, it would not suprise me.

[VinceZeb]

Achimp, I am only splitting the hairs that you started with when you defined "fortunate"

Touche.

[AChimp]

I make pretty decent money for my job skills.
You know who else makes minimum? McDonald's workers. Now we have a bit of comparison for your skills. Essentially, you are a trained monkey.

Of course, you *could* be making somewhere around $20/hour at an elite private school, but for you to only be "just above" the poverty line with that kind of wage, you could only be working a few hours every week... hardly something I'd call "hard work." :blah

[mburbank]

"And I said I make just above the poverty line, I never defined what just above is, now did I. "
VINTH

See, now, I thought you might have meant, you know 'Not very much more', or 'pretty nearly', especilly where you said you were poor.

But I guess you might have meant "Twice as much" by "Right above". Or maybe you meant "Poverty line + a billion" or maybe "Poverty line + 460.00 a month.

Or maybe you just admitted that your statement was meaningless. Sort of...

DOOPA: Do you know anybody poor?

VINTH: Yeah! ME! Cause I make a certain undisclosed amount of money! A lot more than minimum wage, though! But poor enough so I know what I'm talking about! Yesireebob! That oughta shut you up!

[Anonymous]

max yes I do know someone who is poor

[AChimp]

Achimp, I am only splitting the hairs that you started with when you defined "fortunate"
:lol :lol :lol

Poor form, Vinth. You see, when I pointed out the alternate definition, I was actually right and not saying "WELL THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID NEENER-NEENER!" Jumping on one word in someone's letter does not give you a basis for making broad assumptions like Boortz has done. Hell, it's the equivalent of palm-reading.

You have ignored every single point I have brought up. If you want to demonstrate your intelligence, start doing so rather than making vague statements.

BTW, you seem to be posting a lot here this afternoon. What are you so busy about that allows your browser to point to I-Mockery and not to Newsfilter?

[Protoclown]

Doopa, Max wasn't asking you, he was making fun of Vince!

[Anonymous]

hahahahahaha:lol

man i am out of it today

[kellychaos]

Hardwork is a main factor in how much you can produce and how much a boss will pay you for your services. I make pretty decent money for my job skills.


Didn't you already claim that you had a degree and were already working in a skilled field? Strike one.


I'm working now to improve my job skills and education so I can get more money. That is how it works, kelly.


Something that pays someone above poverty level even though they have a college degree, I hope. Also hoping that you get smarter so as not to sqaunder your education when the next job train rolls up to the station.


Christ, Kelly, were you one of those people that joined the military because you were directionless?


Nope. I joined it to serve my country as I think that all able-bodied people should do ... well those of us without horrendous hive conditions. :eek I'm 20 credits short of a degree in Computer Science yet I have a job that pays what I'd probably be making as base pay in a job using that degree; therefore I'm busy making above poverty level wages while I finish the last bit of classes while waiting to see if the IT field opens up a little more.


By your incoherent ranting and leftist screeds, it would not suprise me.

Mr. Pot ... meet Mr. Kettle. Puhhhlllleeeeaaaase.

[mburbank]

Hee hee.

When Vinth says he knows poor people, he really does mean himself , and homeless folks he shrieks 'get a job at' to mask his terror.

[AChimp]

Self hate is the worst kind. :(

I bet Vinth is Jewish, too, just to add to his self-loathing.

[kellychaos]

I think that HE'S homeless and the only sneaking he does is into the library to keep warm and use the library card that he swiped from one of his ethnic girlfriends.

[Raven]

The thread is long and I'm too lazy to read it all. So if this is covering things already covered or incoherent and screwed up in anyway. Just slap me and point me in the right direction.

The greatest of the tax cuts should go to the rich. As The taxation system is setup into tax brackets. Which of course you already know. I believe before the tax cut the taxation percentage was 38%. After, if I'm correct, it was dropped to 35%. It still exists at a higher rate than the bracket below it, but the gap is now down to 2.5%. You're going to have to forgive me if this sounds scatter brained but its been a while since I've read the information on it. Now of course this doesn't even count the taxation of millionare assets after death. With this in mind and the failing economy it is understable and highly rational to give a larger tax break to the rich. This provides them with more money to spend or invest. If they invest in the stock market, our stocks go up and so does the value of our companies. Of course the value of a stock isn't based solely on the investment into the stock market, but you know that already. Or they will put it in a bank or spend it. Either one increases the funds of the receiver. Thus increasing the economy.

Alright I've been typing too much. I don't even remember what I was talking about. Oh well. And for my finally statement. The existance of tax cuts towards the rich is the proper way of distributing money throughout the economy. Because it allows for a greater percentage of funds to be spread throughout the global or national economy. Uh sorry if that didn't make a lick of sense.

[Jeanette X]

[quote="VinceZeb"]Max, you are a fucking simpleton. Is the government wanting more tax money for roads? Nope. Is it wanting more money from our pockets for war in a time of peace? Nope.

IT WANTS MONEY SO IT CAN GIVE MORE MONEY TO THE "LESS FORTUNATE" SO THEY WILL VOTE FOR THEM! Is it that hard to fucking understand, you knuckle dragging fuck? [quote]

Do you honestly think that ALL your tax money goes only to welfare?

[Raven]

A large majority of funds goes to welfare. The question is whether it should. You, I'm assuming, believe yes. Vince believes no. I believe neither of you are seeing the middle ground. And as much as this makes me out to be a communist, I could really care less. I believe it to be a good idea.

Welfare in its current existance allows for far to many people to actually "steal" from the system. They intentionally keep themselves on welfare and perform certain deeds that allow them more amounts of money. Than you have those who truly deserve it. Those who are just on bad times and need a little helping hand. How do you create a system that works for both?

Simple you require the recipiant of welfare to work on some government contract institution, or work for some company they are in essence contracted out too. For working they get a paycheck, education, possibly room and board, and other essential items to their betterment. And the work they are putting in is also funding what they are taking out of the government, perhaps not completely in some cases. But it would be doing far more, than what the current system has them putting back in.

Just my thoughts.

[The_voice_of_reason]

We are taking money out of our pockets to give to old geezers who want to government to pay for drugs that they could pay for with the discresional income they have


Yes that is understandable since only old people need medicine. FUCK YOU.

My father (who is 46) has had three heart transplants and a kidney transplant it takes $60,000 a year in medicine to keep him alive, my mother works at a hospital not because it is the best job she can get but because it has the best insurance program, they pay for 50% of his medicine making the meager $25,000 a year she gets worth it, my dad makes alot less than that because he can't work full time and still recieve medicare benifits (which he needs to cover the $30,000 dollars a year in medicine plus the cost of doctor visits, and the thousands of dollars in debt left over from his transplants.) Oh yeah did I mention that my mother was just diagnosed with Muliple Sclerosis and needs $6,000 dollars a year to halt its progress? My families annual income comes out to about $35,000 not much for a family of five, not even onough to cover my parents medicine much less living expenses. Now i can understand your outrage at medicare programs after all my parents could just curl up and die saving you precious dollars.

asshole

[Preechr]

I seriously DOUBT your story. No offense.

With Pharmaceutical Bills such as that, it's entirely implausible that no one has informed your family so far that all they have to due, in the situation you've described, is call up the damn drug companies and, presto, they get a HUGE discount, if not free drugs altogether.

If you're not lying, I feel bad for your situation. You can thank me later for telling you to call the companies that make the drugs your parents need.

[The_voice_of_reason]

I seriously DOUBT your story. No offense.

With Pharmaceutical Bills such as that, it's entirely implausible that no one has informed your family so far that all they have to due, in the situation you've described, is call up the damn drug companies and, presto, they get a HUGE discount, if not free drugs altogether.
.


doubting my story is understandable, if i didn't live it and some one told me about it I would doubt it also.

As for calling the companies, my parents have tried it several times all they get is the run around, we have not been able to get these discounts.

[Immortal Goat]

The Voice Of Reason, I truly feel sorry for your unfortunate and uncontrollable condition. However, I do not think that it will be enough to sway the all knowing (and he will never let u s forget it) Vinth. Since he was tragically born without a sense of compassion for his fellow man, he will simply look at your condition and say "Oh well, at least I have MY money."

Vinth, just shut your fucking mouth and keep it shut until you have something to say that has some depth of feeling to it.

[Preechr]

Don't let that run-around stop you. Seriously. If they are truly in the situation you've described, they WILL be helped. Hell, I'll help you work it out. It really is not that hard. If you want to PM the prescriptions and dosages they are taking, I'll work one hour on it tomorrow and provide results.

[VinceZeb]

VOR, I could tell you sob stories about my father, but it doesn't prove anything.

The problem with this board is no matter what I say, it will be dismissed even thought I am right about 90+% of the time. So no matter what I say or show, it won't be believed, but I do like a challenge.

[The_voice_of_reason]

VOR, I could tell you sob stories about my father, but it doesn't prove anything.

The problem with this board is no matter what I say, it will be dismissed even thought I am right about 90+% of the time. So no matter what I say or show, it won't be believed, but I do like a challenge.


You son of a bitch read the quote at the beggining. I wasn't telling you a sob story (how conservatives dismiss every argument for welfare programs) I was giving you an example of why medicare programs are nessicary.

[Protoclown]

The problem with this board is no matter what I say, it will be dismissed even thought I am right about 90+% of the time.

Kind of like how you were right about the submarine letter? Or about the deadly hives-not-hives un-namable condition that you had? Or how about that time when you told Burbank you'd debate him on neutral ground, and then when he took it to your home turf, where things were undoubtedly in your favor, you pissed your pants and ran away sobbing like a little girl?

[Raven]

Kind of like how you were right about the submarine letter? Or about the deadly hives-not-hives un-namable condition that you had? Or how about that time when you told Burbank you'd debate him on neutral ground, and then when he took it to your home turf, where things were undoubtedly in your favor, you pissed your pants and ran away sobbing like a little girl?

My G-d you people talk far more shit than you back up. I certainly hope Burbank isn't as much of a disappointment as the majority of you shit talkers have been.

[VinceZeb]

proto, prove I didn't have a "submarine letter". Prove that I do not have a condition that affects me in extreme tempature change. I mean, if you are so confident that I'm lying, why don't you drag out your big evidence bag and show me how wrong I am?

[Raven]

proto, prove I didn't have a "submarine letter". Prove that I do not have a condition that affects me in extreme tempature change. I mean, if you are so confident that I'm lying, why don't you drag out your big evidence bag and show me how wrong I am?

Vince you're the only person posting. So your my target.

That is the most comp out pile of shit statement used. Prove something over the internet about yourself. I mean fuck if we wish to utilize the burden of proof method, it is truly you who must prove to us that you have those things. While Proto and the majority of his cronies are complete troglodytes, you should know full well that a statement as such is wasted space. It holds no meaning. And is easily dismissed.

[mburbank]

I'm kind of skipping ahead a bit to welcome Mr. Raven to the board (or s., who could tell) and to say I'm certainly not ignoring you, but I'm only in a half day today, I've got my daughter with me at work as my wife has the flu, and so there won't be much coming from me today.

I will say this, though:

"A large majority of funds goes to welfare."

I need time to get back up facts, but I'd place money on the table that by any stretch of the imaginiation and by any deffinition of the word 'majority', that statement is very, very, very wrong. I think (and budget experts chime in so I don't need to bug my brother who works for the fed) go to entightlement programs, which are not welfare, ie. social security and medicare. I think the military comes next, and then paying down the national debt (which was gone for a while but is back, bigger than ever!) and I think there are several other places your tax dollars go before we get anywhere near welfare.

[AChimp]

I think Vinth is challenging us to break into his house and rifle through his sock drawer so he can "use weapons" to "defend his family" again. Of course, we'd probably just find that his socks have been victims of brutal masturbatings. :(

[mburbank]

They need to join a soiled clothing suppoprt hose group.

[kellychaos]

We are taking money out of our pockets to give to old geezers who want to government to pay for drugs that they could pay for with the discresional income they have, which btw is the HIGHEST out of the age groups!

Yes, that would be wrong for a citizen who has paid into the healthcare system for 40-50 working years of their life to expect a decent return on their investment. :rolleyes

The fact that the receive the most is because

1) They're older, they paid for it, they need it the most and deserve it.

2) The increase in the percentage of citizens within this age bracket is a result of an increase in birthrate at the time of their births. It's called the "Baby Boom" which followed World War II ... look it up. Again, not THEIR fault.

3) Before you get your panties in a twist, realize that this age bracket, if anything, is growing so you better get used to it.

[VinceZeb]

Kelly, you are once again wrong about a subject.

The old want the government to pay for DRUGS. DRUGS are not covered by what they originally invested in. Why should we add something that is just going to place a burden on me and my children? The senior citizen group has the most disposable income out of ANYONE, so they can pay for their own pills their own fucking selves. They are getting what is put in already for Medicare and Medicade. We don't need the govt buying our medicine for me. That is an expense that just happens, like a tune up and getting gas for a car. Should insurance companies pay for that as well, Kelly?

[mburbank]

When my car needs a tune up, it doesn't die. But I can see where humn lives and cars seem equal to you, on account of you being a really shitty Christian. Run that car/person analogy past your Priest next time you confess. I hear it's good for the soul.

Here comes a shocker, Vinth. I partially gree with you. I don't think rich geezers should get government health or perscription benefits. My grandfather certainly had enough moolah to poay for his won medical needs and I see no reason why any of my tax money should have gone to him. Nor do I see any reason the baby boomers should get a chunk of my check if they don't need it, but that one won't go my way, becuase there are a hell of lot of baby boomers out there and we live in a representative democracy.

I think people who can't afford medicine should get it from the government. Why? Because I think you shouldn't have to die younger or live with pain because you're not as wealthy as someone else. I think life has an intrinsic worth. That's value found in most religions, and I think as a society we should uphold it. You may need it some day Vinth. You're only making just above the poverty level, and your health is so bad they wouldn't let you serve in the military.

[Vibecrewangel]

WTF Vince,

My nana gets a little less than $800.00 per month. That isn't much to live on. After property taxes, bills, insurance on auto-house-self she barely has enough for food for the month.

And out of curiosity.....what insurance company do you have the doesn't pay for your meds? Mine always have.

[VinceZeb]

I have insurance through my mothers work that I pay for. When I graduate, I will be persuing whatever insurance I think I need.

And did your nana save her money or plan responsibily in her younger age? If she didn't, well, she rolled the dice of life and it came up snake eyes.

[Vibecrewangel]

Actually, she did, but she ended up raising 3 grandchildren with very little help from social services. That tends to suck up resources pretty damn quick.

[kellychaos]

The old want the government to pay for DRUGS. DRUGS are not covered by what they originally invested in.


Drugs are not a part of healthcare?


Why should we add something that is just going to place a burden on me and my children?


1) You have no children and I seriously doubt the prospects for that to change any time soon, commander.

2) They've been paying into the system since before you were fuckin' born ... THAT'S WHY!


The senior citizen group has the most disposable income out of ANYONE, so they can pay for their own pills their own fucking selves.


Yeah, they're rolling in the dough. Most are on a fixed income genius. Where do you get your stats from anyway?


They are getting what is put in already for Medicare and Medicade. We don't need the govt buying our medicine for me.


Yeah ... are you old or disabled? Strike that. I forgot about the hives thing. Do you even know how overpriced that medication is?! People from around Michigan go to Canada to pay for drugs on their own dime because it's cheaper than drugs here WITH insurance. Maybe, if nothing else, the government should start enforcing a cap on the amount they can charge for medication her in the U.S. and, subsequently, any meds the government does pay for would be nominal.


That is an expense that just happens, like a tune up and getting gas for a car. Should insurance companies pay for that as well, Kelly?

If you think of like having a car under warranty, yes. They paid the warranty and, at the very least, the "oil change" senior citizens get should be at a reduced price.

P.S. You know what, Vince. You're constantly spouting off about how proud you are of the veterans of the armed services and what they did for our country but when it comes down to paying tribute to them (people that served in WWII would be roughly in their 80's nowadays) it's just so much lip service.

[mburbank]

Isn't that pretty much what Jesus said? Wait, here it is.

"Honor thy Mother and thy6 Father, sayeth the Lord. Unless thy Nana did not save her wealth or plan responsibily in her younger age? If she didn't, well, she hath rolled the dice of life and it came up snake eyes."
-Jesus Vinth.

Lets face it mommies insurance boy, you're a bag of shit. Anyone who thinks it's okay for the Nannas of the world to suffer and die because you in your wisdom make some judgement about how they've lived their lives...

"Ohh! OH!! I didn't THAY that! I'm a Catholic, I believe they should be helped, jutht not by me, and the government can't take MY MONEY to keep them alive and comfortable! THEY ROLLED THE DAMN DITHE!! I'M A CATHOLIC THAMURAI AND I THAY LET 'EM ROT!! THERE DITHE WATH THNAKE EYETH!"
-Vince Chritht.

[VinceZeb]

Kelly, what are you blabbering about? So what they pay for Medicare and Medicade. I pay for car insurance. Does that mean I can go to my car insurance agent and demand that they pay for my tires? My gas? My windshield wiper fluid? No, it doesn't Those are expenses that come with the benefit of owning a car, such as medicine is a expense that comes with living.

[VinceZeb]

Max, quit. Your baiting is nothing but a constant pimple on my internet ass. Why don't you go log off and indoctrinate your daughter to be a good little Jewish Princess and a nice little happy liberal.

[Zhukov]

"Ohh! OH!! I didn't THAY that! I'm a Catholic, I believe they should be helped, jutht not by me, and the government can't take MY MONEY to keep them alive and comfortable! THEY ROLLED THE DAMN DITHE!! I'M A CATHOLIC THAMURAI AND I THAY LET 'EM ROT!! THERE DITHE WATH THNAKE EYETH!"
-Vince Chritht.


That is the funniest Vince impersonation yet :)

Somebody should make it their sig.

[kellychaos]

Private insurance companies sign you up and know all the health risks that you have. They're supposed to cover what's under the policy as long as it's not part of a pre-existing condition. They have no problem accepting your money when you're young and healthy but when payback time rolls around, they fight hard and long against your claim to make sure you get the smallest scrap they can legally afford to give you. The government is no different ... run just like a big company. These people have paid into this insurance their whole lives and now it's payback time and the good ol' U.S. of A is fightin' the claim. If you've ever fought an insurance claim in your life for what you're entitled too, you'd know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Vibecrewangel]

Very true Kelly

I'm currently battling over a dental proceedure for a broken tooth. I needed a crown. They only paid as if it were a filling. The reason.....because I didn't need a root canal.

Thankfully, my dentist is fighting on my behalf. And keeps sending them paperwork instead of having me do it.

[AChimp]

People from around Michigan go to Canada to pay for drugs on their own dime because it's cheaper than drugs here WITH insurance.
It's not just in Michigan. There are Internet pharmacies in Canada now that sell drugs to people in the U.S. Even with the added shipping costs, it's much cheaper.

It's so cheap, in fact, that the drug companies are bitching about how it's parallel marketing and the Canadian drugs are competing with their own, high-priced U.S. drugs... which are the exact same damn little pills.

The FDA is apparently looking into banning drug imports because they "aren't approved for U.S. use" even though these Canadian companies are buying drugs from U.S. companies at the federal government negotiated rate and selling them back to American citizens.

[Vibecrewangel]

Guess Vince has nothing to say once he finds out that sometimes even when you do all the right things you still end up in a bad financial situation.

[mburbank]

I just can't believe he's still going with the car/life analogy. Medicine=Gas.

I think not being able to distinguish between people and things is a serious indication of sociopathy.

Vinth, I may well be baiting you, but that doesn't mean I don't think every word I'm writting. You are one sick animal. You honest to God don't have any compassion at all, do you? No empathy. It's all you, how hard life is for you, how dishonest unworthy people are taking things away from you.

And here's the thing. The day may well come that despite all your 'planning', you'll find you need help. Your health isn't that great to begin with and medicine can be VERY expensive. You might find yourself out of work. Hey, the economy is in pretty rough shape these days. Where will your insurance come from then? You might need food stamps. And I'm sure if you run into any difficulty getting services, if you have to make your way through any red tape, you'll whine and cry and blame it on everybody else. Somehow I can't imagine you saying "Oh well. I guess I just rolled snake eyes."

[Preechr]

Severe Entitlement Mentality Disorder.

Who is responsible for me getting a cold, or AIDS for that matter? Who is responsible for me getting old and infirm?

You guys? Rich People?

Let me tell you a little bit about insurance in general. The whole thing started as a cooperative effort by farmers to protect one another from financial ruin due to wind blowing over one's crops. All the farmers would pitch in to help when one farmer lost his ass due to an "Act of God."

Insurance was invented to protect normal, hard-working, productive people from catastrophic financial losses. Insurance companies do not insure your car no more than they insure Farmer John's stalks of wheat. They insure your financial health.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid... all that crap is insurance. Same general intention applies: Americans believe we should be protected from Financial Death through catastrophic accident, so we have incorporated that concept into the function of our government.... or more correctly, our government has assumed that responsibility from us.

I'll interrupt myself here before I forget to ask this: How many of you Oh So Concerned and Sensitive citizens actually donate your own money to charities that protect old people from Financial Death due to their age? I see no hands being raised. I suppose that's something you only care enough about to bitch when other people don't get forced to put THEIR money where YOUR mouth is, right?

Anyhoo...

Your new cap for your tooth is not a financial catastrophe. In a more efficient and honest world, you wouldn't even be able to purchase an insurance policy that covers something that incidental. You're bitching cause that damned insurance company won't cover your cap under the copayment, but the thing you don't realize is that your so-called dental insurance is costing you way more money than you'll ever save by having it.

Do you guys really think that you are so much smarter and better off than our entire aging baby-boomer generation that it is truly somehow YOUR responsibility to provide for THEIR retirement? Think about that. Are you assuming that all those people are so damn stupid that they never anticipated growing old?

"Damn! How the Hell did I get so wrinkly and stiff all of a sudden?! Is this some strange punishment from GOD?! I thought I was going to stay 18 forever!! DAMN YOU!!!" *shakes fist at sky*

It is sad and unfortuante that our elders bought into the idea that their government, the least efficient mechanism for accomplishment in the history of Mankind, would provide for them in their old age. It's sad because we are seeing the results of those empty promises made by politicians long ago in an effort to get their paws deeper into the pockets of their employers: 50% of Americans reaching 65 with access to less than $500 in cash and effectively no ability to provide for themselves. What was the Amazing American Gubbermint's Wonderful Plan for this again? Oh yeah... here's your big, shiny "Poverty" sticker Granny. If you are really, really good, and cast your vote this Fall, we'll pretend to care a little more about your mounting pharmaceutical bills... though, we won't actually DO anything right now. You'll be long dead before change is forced upon us.

Well, at least Granny gets some hope... and it's good for her to get out of the house at least once a year, even if it is only to vote for a President that got killed 40 years ago.

It looks like this could go on for pages more. I'll just "Submit" now and see if anything I've said so far sparks any interest.

[Vibecrewangel]

Your new cap for your tooth is not a financial catastrophe. In a more efficient and honest world, you wouldn't even be able to purchase an insurance policy that covers something that incidental. You're bitching cause that damned insurance company won't cover your cap under the copayment, but the thing you don't realize is that your so-called dental insurance is costing you way more money than you'll ever save by having it.


Actually, my company pays the majority of my insurance premium both for dental and medical. Without it, over the last year I would have had to shell out over $8000.00 for dental work and $10000.00 for medical coverage including when my apendix burst. This doesn't include what I would have paid for meds if I didn't have the insurance. For someone who only has $50.00 a month after bills are paid, that is financial ruin.
So please explain to me how I would save more money if I didn't have insurance?

And I am not "bitching" about it. My policy states they are to cover crowns at 80% If that is what they are paid to cover then that is what they should cover. If you pay for something, shouldn't you get what you pay for?

[mburbank]

While you are far more mentally intact than Vinth could ever hope to be, you committed a serious Vinthism.

"How many of you Oh So Concerned and Sensitive citizens actually donate your own money to charities that protect old people from Financial Death due to their age? I see no hands being raised. "

You answered your own question. You need to wait. You know what happens when you assume.

I donate time helping veterans navigate the VA. Time I could be working. That's money. I help them get services from the government. I help them make appointments, get to appointments, acquire and fill out the correct paperwork. Some of them re homeless, so I guess I'm not dooing anything for their financial health. But some of them have small, restricted incomes.

Now, I dislike the baby boomers as much as anyone. I'm not in their socio economic cohort, and I'm not in the next one either. I fall between the two. I see the Baby Boomers as a locust horde who never gve a crapola about anyone but themselves and only give a shit about the elderly now that they're getting elderly.

But do I think that means it's okay for them to suffer? No. I'm anti suffering, even when people bring it on themselves. Do I think society can end suffering? Of course not. But I think we should look after each other as best we can. Like the farmers, or the father of the Prodigal Son.

Now I can totally see why some people disagree. But I don't get why it causes some people to fly into a rage. Vinth will tell you I'm a communist. That's just becuase he doesn't understand many political terms very well. I'm for advocating for the passage of laws, arrived at through representative democracy, that create and maintain a reasonable safety net. I'm also for abidding by existing law while working to change it. That's how I excercise my citizenship.

[Preechr]

Ahh... you are one of those that believe your company provides you with benefits at no cost to you then... I see.

Newsflash. Thanks to government meddling in Healthcare (ever heard of COBRA or HIPA?) your health and dental insurance costs your company much more than you would pay for it were you to purchase it on your own. Don't run out and buy your own just yet, though, expecting to be compensated by your employer.

The government has fucked private healthcare insurance. The only kind worth a shit now is employer provided. Without that interference, you'd be able to spend ALL of the money your employer spends on employing you, saving a hell of a lot more than $50 per month.

Similarly, were you to wrest the control of your retirement income from DC, you'd potentially have a lot more than $800/month to look forward to in your waning years...

[Vibecrewangel]

Boy you sure must be a hell of a mind reader to know think. Golly, I had no idea that what my company pays out for insurance for me could have gone into my pocket. But that $180.00 for both medical and dental is hell of a lot less than what I would pay for insurance on my own. See, I've had to pay for health care on my own and I've done it both with and without insurance. I have made the choice to make sure my employer covers it because it is cheaper for them to do it then it is for me.
Interestingly enough, we have the option of taking the dollar value of what they pay for our insurance if we choose to do so. The only ones who do are the ones who have better insurance through their spouse or other source.

And before you ask, I work in HR. I know what is paid out per person.

[The One and Only...]

On Healthcare:

My opinion is that this should be provided for by taxes. Yep, borrow from socialism on this one, because the system works.

First of all, it's the most fair. There are those who can't afford health insurance, whose jobs do not provide it, and need medical attention. It is not their fault that they had a heart attack and that they don't have a decent job because of their 80 IQ.

Second, it'd cheaper overall. Whether you pay for insurance indirectly through your job or directly through you, chances are you will save more money from the taxes increase. I say "chances are" and "overall" because this is not always the case - an example would be those who don't have health insurance anyway, but never have anything seriously wrong with them.

Why would it be cheaper overall? Think about it. Insurance companys are a business. That is, they're goal is to make large amounts of profit. The government has no reason to raise taxes higher than the amount to cover healthcare and pay it's workers; they need no profit. In fact, with the reputation the U.S. has, they wouldn't raise it enough and we'd be in debt.

The only downside is that many workers will be fired as healthcare insurance goes down the tubes and doctors no longer work independantly. But then, the government will surely need to hire those doctors again, and I'm sure that there are plenty of openings that those insurance workers could fill in the new system...

Many times, I wonder why our government does not truly progress. Rather than changing things that are generally beneficial to all, they seem to flip-flop on issues teeming with morals and having vast numbers of people on both sides so that no one will end up happy (abortion anyone?). I'm not sure whether it sickens me, saddens me, angers me, or all at the same time.

[Preechr]

It's complicated, and I didn't really expect you to fuly get it the first go round...

I’m not really a mind reader, so for the sake of simplicity we’ll speak hypothetically. Let’s say your company produces widgets for profit. Any money diverted from the income derived from your companies sales of widgets, say to employ HR people to manage employee benefits and whatnot, is a loss no matter how much you wish to sugar-coat it or “Yes, but…” me. Remember: indirect profit is still a financial loss. It’s just managed better. Your department doesn’t directly profit your company. You are a conceded loss to your employer. Thanks for playing.

You are obviously not considering the total cost of your company’s entitlement programs, both financial and human. Think it through again, looking at the big picture, and if you have further questions, file a lawsuit against the college you attended.

[kellychaos]

Seriously! Are you really going to debate the costs of private insurance versus company endorsed insurance with a person who works in human resources for a living and expect to earn any credibility? Go back to NewsFarter please.

[mburbank]

That's kind of snotty. Maybe she just disagrees with you. It is possible to disagree with you AND not be stupid. It would a little arrogant to assume you had some kind of stranglehold on objective truth.

I mean, any old idiot can think they have the deed to the truth. See, I think a societal safety net is a good idea. Apart from simple compassion, I might need it myself one day, and if I do, I'd like it to be there. Sure, the system gets abused and taken advantage of, but if systems didn't get abused what would Bechtel do when they want to overcharge for government contracts? I don't think that means we should scrap the Pentagon.

Now, you may disagree with all that. That doesn't mean you need to sue your college. You know, if you went to one.

[Burned In Effigy]

So just b/c you work in a field means only you can have an opinion or know anything relevant or have information that is debate worth? Come on, well all know that isn't true in any case. I'm a Cop, so anything related to my field I know more about than anyone on here?

[Vibecrewangel]

I’m not really a mind reader, so for the sake of simplicity we’ll speak hypothetically. Let’s say your company produces widgets for profit. Any money diverted from the income derived from your companies sales of widgets, say to employ HR people to manage employee benefits and whatnot, is a loss no matter how much you wish to sugar-coat it or “Yes, but…” me. Remember: indirect profit is still a financial loss. It’s just managed better. Your department doesn’t directly profit your company. You are a conceded loss to your employer. Thanks for playing.

And what if the HR people were not employed specifically for that purpose? Suppose that those people were already employed and this is just one aspect of their job among many others. Which is fairly standard. Then the cost to administer the benefits is either quite low or nothing at all. Of course that depends on how the company is run. So please try not to generalize so much.


You are obviously not considering the total cost of your company’s entitlement programs, both financial and human. Think it through again, looking at the big picture, and if you have further questions, file a lawsuit against the college you attended.

Never attended college. But I have been doing payroll, HR, corporate taxes, and budgeting for companies and currently a university since I was 18. I am well aware of the costs both direct and indirect.

BTW - have you seen what health and dental coverage costs in CA? It is way less expensive for employers to cover it. Most Californians would rather take the $35000.00 a year job with insurance than the $38000.00 without.

[AChimp]

Healthcare rocks. :rock

You just need lots of resources for it to operate smoothly, which is Canada's only problem. The idea is sound and benefits everyone, but people have to put stuff in for it to work. Of course, there are always whiners like Vinth who will take what is given to them and bitch and moan about it all the way.

[Preechr]

Seriously! Are you really going to debate the costs of private insurance versus company endorsed insurance with a person who works in human resources for a living and expect to earn any credibility? Go back to NewsFarter please.

Not really, no. There's no debate to be had. I've explained it pretty well, and offered to field any questions should they come up. It's not really a rash assumption that I'm more informed on the topic, at least to me.

I don't particularly enjoy the throwing darts at each other side of internet forums, but I understand that to not participate in kind when attacked is to be "OWNED" or whatever. If you guys want to leave your barbs at the door, I will do so as well.

[Jeanette X]

A large majority of funds goes to welfare. The question is whether it should. You, I'm assuming, believe yes. Vince believes no. I believe neither of you are seeing the middle ground. .
No, I do not believe yes. I believe that the system needs be changed, but damned if I know how.



The problem with this board is no matter what I say, it will be dismissed even thought I am right about 90+% of the time. So no matter what I say or show, it won't be believed, but I do like a challenge.

Well if you actually (gasp!) gave SOURCES for your information when asked for them instead of refusing to I might believe you.

[Vibecrewangel]

And where did you get your information? College? Books? Websites? Someome else told you? Or practical experience?


As someone who has had to run budgets (some for government funds) over and over and over and over.....and has done this along side people who have degrees in accounting......I can assure that what you learn in school and how it works in the real world can be miles apart.


And I hope you are more of an expert in your field than someone who hasn't ever worked in it.

[Preechr]

And I hope you are more of an expert in your field than someone who hasn't ever worked in it.

I am. Excuse me for being evasive, but there are only a few people that know exactly what I do for a living, even at Newsfilter where I have many friends. It's not really information that's vital to understanding what I'm saying, though I see where it might help you BELIEVE what I'm saying.

Either way, we can agree to disagree if you wish. My as yet unanswered question is really more important to this debate than my profession.

[Burned In Effigy]

And I hope you are more of an expert in your field than someone who hasn't ever worked in it.

It depends on the job and the persons function. Just b/c I'm a cop, doesn't mean I know every single thing that happens within my profession. Someone who doesn't necessarily do my job may be able to enlighten me about something that I am clueless about, although I'm not speaking necessarily about my day to day job functions, but more or less higher up in the ranks.

[Vibecrewangel]

My comment about being an expert was for Burned. It was in response to a post he/she made.

(I guess this why they use so much copy and paste on NewsFilter.....I'm just used to people remembering recent posts in a thread. Sorry, my bad)




My as yet unanswered question is really more important to this debate than my profession.

What didn't I answer?

[Preechr]

"How many of you Oh So Concerned and Sensitive citizens actually donate your own money to charities that protect old people from Financial Death due to their age? I see no hands being raised. I suppose that's something you only care enough about to bitch when other people don't get forced to put THEIR money where YOUR mouth is, right?"~me, earlier...

[mburbank]

I did and you completely ignored it . Did you miss it, or were you just put off by the fact that you assumed none of us did, and I do?

[Burned In Effigy]

My comment about being an expert was for Burned. It was in response to a post he/she made.


And I responded to your comment. And to add I dont' believe just b/c you work in a particular profession, that doesn't generally make you an "expert" in that field, nor does it make you know more than the next person. In some cases it may, but to assume you have to work in a profession to know what goes on or about what that profession does or stands for is incorrect.

[Preechr]

Totally missed that. Sorry.

I actually did assume SOME of you are charitable. Law of large numbers and all that... I wouldn't have asked the question had I not had any idea of the answer. I asked and answered it to make a point, which I'll probably finish up later if I get any more replies.

Very admirable, Max.

But if it's a Vince-ism you're looking for, I could say something about a Jew donating his time instead of his money... Eh... bad jokes aren't my forte.

[Vibecrewangel]

Burned - I know you responded to it, and I followed up. My follow up was in part what preechr responded to. There was also the "miles apart" section.
It's not a biggie. I just have to remember to be more clear who's post I am responding too. That's something I don't often have to do around here. Hell some of our comments cross threads and most people still follow them.

Preechr - As I am not one of your Oh-so-concerned, I didn't feel I needed to respond. However, since you would like one, here it is. I also don't give money to a charity. I give it to my grandmother who refuses any assistance from outside sources. She rasied me and it is the least I can do make her as comfortable as she made me while I was growing up.
As for time, I volunteer at the special ed grade school where I used to work. The severely handicapped kids touched me such a way that even after I quit I wanted to be around them. I also donate art supplies to the same school when I can.
Additionally I do volunteer work for GYRO's World of Terror. An organization whos profits go to aid several of the "keeping kids off of drugs" programs (okay, I know.....humorous to those of you that know me) For 3 months out of the year I put in 4 hours a day after work, 10 hours on Saturdays and 8 hours on Sundays. Usually I work security. Sometimes I help wioth marketing or with the actors. Depends on who needs it more when I sign up.

Personally, I don't see how this relates to insurance, but there is your answer.

[Preechr]

Verrrrry Admirable.

I think you believe I'm picking on you guys here, but that's not my intention. I asked that question originally in the context of the original debate concerning the right or role of the government in providing safety nets for citizens. The insurance bit sorta sprung out of that.

I agree that there is a role for government in providing for those that cannot do so for themselves, just not in the role that government has assumed for itself within the last 60 years. I think I've already explained how power over and responsibility for one's life should radiate outward from the individual, losing much of it's strength by the time Federal Government gets a lick.

The time that you and Max spend "giving back," so to say, fits right in there. You guys are not the problem. Many of those that have yet to answer, because they have nothing to say, are the problem. They are the ones that are all about charity and support for the needy... just so long as SOMEBODY ELSE does the work and provides the money.

They are seeking to punish folks that have more than they do, not help the less fortunate. If their concern was truly for the needy, they would be helping the needy, not bitching about Bill Gates not giving his fair share.

My point was to show people like you that you are in very, very bad company. Let's sit back and watch if that happens.

[Vibecrewangel]

Um....butthead.....LOL

You might want to bear in mind that many of the people in these forums are quite young. Just out of high school for a lot of them. Some still in college.
You get the point.

[Preechr]

Well it would be kinda silly to try and build my Dark, Teeming Legions with recruitment efforts aimed at bitter, old people that already hate the world, now, wouldn't it?

MUHUHAHAHA!!!

*tents fingers*

Seriously, I got that already. I've said exactly one million times over on my board that I am continually impressed by the quality of "kid" one finds on message boards, once you find a way to reach them. I don't remember being as advanced as these guys are when I was their age, and I was a bright kid.

Limitless possibilities exist with them, and it pisses me off to see our world squander their abilities and ignore them to the point of alienating them entirely.

Gotta go now. Dinner Reservations. Y'all have fun. I've had a blast so far!

[Vibecrewangel]

Teel me about it.....there are couple here who scare the hell out of me sometimes.

:chatter

[KevinTheOmnivore]

May I join the condescension circle???

YOUNG PEOPLE IS STUPID! IF THEY DISAGREE, THEY WRONG!! >:

Any questions??