Depression

[AChimp]

I used to laugh at people who suffered from depression, because I thought that it was just a made up condition. However, since I appear to have be under its effects for the last couple of months, I have changed my mind (see my Big Thread in Loveline).

I've been sad a lot lately, and I have almost no motivation to do anything anymore. When I do start something, I have to push myself to complete it. I have very little appetite now, and I'll go for hours before I realize that I'm hungry. I'm tired almost all of the time, and I can go from content to extremely angry as fast as you can snap your fingers. Pretty much anything can irritate me now, even something as simple as the presence of another person in the room (like my parents, for example) even though they've been there all along. There are times where I've just wanted to cry, but I can't.

Fortunately, it seems to be subsiding. I haven't wanted to take a nap in the middle of the day since last Thursday and my mood is becoming more stable. :rave

I don't think I'll make fun of depressed people anymore. :(

[FS]

Oh, get over it, frowny. :(

[punkgrrrlie10]

The best thing to do is go for a run or go climb some stairs at a stadium. The blood flow and endorphins will help get you back on track. And being outside...sunny weather helps your moods.

[ScruU2wice]

actually i used to get depressed alot over the summer and i just came to the philosophy forum and read stuff and realized by simply reading and comprehending the stuff in here i was far superior in intellect to most people in my age group. So logically, if you write some of the stuff your far superior to most humans... :)

[O71394658]

Well, that sucked. :/

[AChimp]

Your avatar is playing a big role in my therapy. :wank

[O71394658]

Good to hear.

[Jeanette X]

Serves you right, Chimp. I've been on antidepressants since I was eight. Have a little taste of what I have had to deal with more than half my life. >:

[O71394658]

Sugar pills work better than antidepressants. >:

I kid you not.

[AChimp]

Actually that's true. In a lot of cases, a placebo works just as well as a regular antidepressant.

A combination of therapy and medication works the best, whereas one alone has the same rate of success as the other, usually.

EDIT: That is, of course, unless your depression has biological underpinnings, in which case you actually do need the pills to make your brain work properly.

[Sethomas]

I have a psychological condition that renders me wholly incapable of happiness. The medications serve to make it all suck just a little bit less, but they really don't do all that much. My biggest problem is that I'm fundamentally convinced that the world is a shitty place to be, and there's nothing to be done about it. As I said in Spinster's thread, life is far too much effort to ever be worth living in my perspective.

I've had that attitude and depression since I was five, and I've only been medicated for the last five months or so.

[Jeanette X]

Maybe you should switch meds or increase the dosage if it isn't working.

[Sethomas]

Yeah, we've increased the dosage and it seemed to relieve some pressure. What I've tried to explain to my psychiatrists is that 95% of my problem is terminal cynicism. That I'm schizoaffective is just icing on the cake.

[Dole]

Jeanette: I am curious as to how you get prescribed anti-depressants at the age of 8....was it at the suggestion of a doctor? or your folks? were you able to comprehend what it meant at that age? has anyone medical ever suggested you stop taking them at any point since?

I get the impression that drugs like that get prescribed more often in the US than in other countries...at least for kids anyway.

[imported_Cynical.Angel]

Zoloft :yum

[The_voice_of_reason]

Maybe it's just me but I love my depression. I would never medicate myself, I would rather be sad than be an emotionless zombie.

But then again my depression is mostly seasonal not the all encompassing all permeating soul leeching darkness that you all must suffer through every day. :)

[Protoclown]

Dole, you raised a good point. And this isn't really related to Jeanette's situation, but one thing that pisses me off to NO end is that I am seeing more and more children being put on medication for Attention Defecit Disorder, Hyperactive disorder, and some other bullshit kind of "Defiant disorder" (there's another word in the title, but I've forgotten it). Basically, kids are being put on medication in this country simply for ACTING HOW KIDS ARE FUCKING SUPPOSED TO ACT!!!

The possible long-term ramifications of this shit disturb me to no end.

Winston: I find it a strange contrast that you have a really depressive attitude about how futile life is, and yet you seem to have a very strong faith in God. I've gone through periods of depression where I've thought life sucks myself, so I can understand having that sort of dual-attitude up to a point, but anything like that I ever experienced was nothing more than a phase, and I always merely talked a lot of shit about how worthless life is, but I don't think I ever really convinced myself. I can't imagine actually having that kind of attitude for years and years and years while still maintaining faith in God (or ANYthing for that matter). How do you do it, man?

And isn't it possible that true change has to come from within yourself regarding your attitude? Could medication really help anywhere near as much as if you made a conscious effort to affect a change in your outlook?

[Anonymous]

It amazes me that parents are allowing their children to be put on these medications, but you can actually have your child taken away from you for neglect if you don't and some nutjob says you need to. Parents need to be more aware of this before they go to some dumb psychiatrist who has 'cute' little zoloft notepads and paxil pencils all over his/her office.
It literally makes me sick to my stomach how many people buy into this bullshit. These medications have to be one of the biggest scams in history. It's fucking criminal.
People should only be put on medication under a very serious and acute situtation, and should be really monitored, and only on them for a very short period of time (working with other ways to overcome the crisis)... and as a last resort/no other foreseeable alternative. There is absolutely no reason for people to be on these for years and/or for non-absolutely-critical reasons. And all this only if there is a real chance it will actually help somehow as opposed to the shot-in-the-dark way they pass out that shit now.
Making major changes in your life, (maybe therapy, if you can actually find someone good), changing your diet (very important) and exercise, and working really hard at it, go a hell of a long way.

[Vibecrewangel]

ACTING HOW KIDS ARE FUCKING SUPPOSED TO ACT!!!

THANK YOU!!!!

I was sitting with this woman who was telling me how she thought her 5 year old son had ADD 'cause he had an overactive imagination and couldn't sit through a whole movie. She then went on to tell me that he had nightmares and was afraid of the moster under the bed.....
She wanted to have him put on meds.

Normally, since I don't want kids, I keep my mouth shut. I feel since I don't have or want kids that my opinion is less valid. No practical experience and all. But this time.....I kinda lost it.
I told her her son didn't have add. He was five. Kids should have an imagination. They should want to wander away from a 2 hour movie to go play. Hell they watch too much tv as it is. I asked if she had thought of the possibility that the reason kids are growing up with weight problems and depression and real psychological problems later in life might just be that drugging them now is causing imbalances later. Or that maybe the things some parents and doctors are trying to stop are normal necessary parts of development. Being afraid of the dark and overcoming it. Taking that first look for the monster under the bed. Playing with imaginary friends and talking about things with them probably helps us learn to work out problems and issues we all have day to day.

Sorry off my soap box.

Hey Chimp....sorry to hear about your depression. Hopefully you will find the cause and find the method to help with it that works for you. I'm sure you already know that meds may not always be the answer. For me diet and exercise coupled with melatonin at night do wonders. In my case caffeine (or any stimulant for that matter) makes it way worse. So did prozac. I actually had to stop listening to my doctor as all he wanted to do was up my dosage. I was a zombie who was slowly developing homicidal thoughts. But he didn't believe any of that......

Jeanette - I know you are bitter at people who don't understand it. Especially if yours has been going on as long as it has. And I am sure your reaction was purely an over emotional one. I would hate to think that anyone who has lived through would ever wish it on anyone else. Or even feel glee when it does happen.....even if you think they might deserve it. Hopefully you have it under control. It is a horrible experience. I still have bouts of it now. But for the most part, it seems like normal healthy mood fluctuations.

[kellychaos]

I have mixed feelings about this issue. True, I think that many psychotropic drugs are way over-prescribed and it seems that children are being used as guinea pigs for a relatively new biotechnology. Is the cure worse than the cause? Can a lot of these problems be solved through a better diet, exercise and therapy? Is it more of a society flaw (i.e. fast foods, everythin automated makes for less exercise for U.S. citizens, ect.). I don't know the answers although I'm hope that studies are being made. What I am sure of is that perscribing these drugs is a hell of a lot better than sending the "crazies" to the "nuthouse" like they did all the way through to the early part of the twentieth century. Change is good but are we overdoing it?

[Vibecrewangel]

Sever cases....like my mother and middle sister....seriously need meds and heavy therapy. I have always thought my mother need hospitilaztion and my middle sister has the exact same problems. My youngest sister and I have some ourselves (depression and OCD are our biggest) but certainly do not require the same level of help as mom and other sis.
What I am talking about is normal behaviors in normal children. Kids have imaginary friends. Little girls have stuffed animal tea parties and boys wage battles between dinosaurs and the russian army. We built forts out of sofa cusions and pretended they were our houses. We used to have art time in grade school. We had a creative outlet. Many schools don't offer that any more and when kids are caught drawing or doodling they are thought of as flighty or that they have ADD. We used to sleep with night lights on and I remember the feeling of strength that first night I made it without one. I was never able to sit through a whole movie. Even an hour long tv show was a task. I wanted to get up and play. We were princesses and cowboys. Astronauts and animals. I remember trying on different personalities trying to figure out not only what I wanted to be when I grew up, but who I wanted to be. IMHO stifiling these thoughts, these feelings is a big part of why so many teenagers are horribly depressed. So violently co-dependent. So alone within themselves. Why they aspire only to be just like everyone else. Not in appearance but in attitude. I see so many young people today who know what they want to be but have no clue who they are. Kids need to find themselves and I believe in the deepest core of my being that as a society we are severly stunting the growth of our youth.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Little girls have stuffed animal tea parties and boys wage battles between dinosaurs and the russian army.

Hey, some grrls didn't have stuffed animal tea parties. They had dinosaur battles and GI Joes.

[mew barios]

i had stuffed animal battles. :o

[Vibecrewangel]

Actually Punk.....that was me too. I also built a fake kitchen out in the backyard out of stuff I found at a house that was being demolished. I then proceeded to be a backyard chef for a couple of years. The plants suffered greatly for this dream. And no, I never ate any of it. I was imaginative....not crazy.

I would also cover boards with mud and then add broken flour pots and the like to build a city. The residents were the empty snail shells I found around the garden.
Now I am the resident WarHammer terrain builder.

[AChimp]

There's a big section on this in my psychology textbook. It's way too long to type out here, so I'll try to paraphrase a summary of it as best as I can.

Research has shown that young children develop a gender identity very early, and conform to these identities very strictly. In fact, toddlers are often called the "gender police" because they seem to have a very vivid concept of what is male (i.e. trucks, muscles, etc) and what is female (ie. dolls, soft cute things, etc) and get all worked up when they see something that defies these rules.

However, at about the age of 4 or 5, when kids enter school and are regularly exposed to other kids, these gender lines start to blur a bit and it becomes more complex. Due to the way our society works, girls gain status by acting more like boys (independent, assertive, playing in mud, etc) while boys loose status by acting like girls (being big sissies and playing house, for instance).

Of course, I probably butchered that explanation, but it makes sense if you read it. :(

[Jeanette X]

I do agree that psychiatric drugs are overprescribed, but in my case, I did need them. I didn't not fully comprehend what they were for at that age, although I had some idea. And I have tried not taking them...lets just say it wasn't fun.
And yes VCA, it was a purely emotional reaction. :(

[FS]

In a possibly failed attempt at trying to summarize the problems of the western world: we're trying to get everything under control.

I shudder to think of the level of professionalism among psychiatrists and therapists after about twenty years of having to listen to people who like to hear themselves talk once a week, then like to hear someone conclude how fucked up it all makes them - in textbook phrases - and then pay money for it all.

[AChimp]

Anyone can call themself a psychotherapist. There's no certification required at all for that title. It's basically the same as setting up my own fortune telling booth after watching a 15 minute video on how to shine my crystal ball. Be very wary of any kind of therapist who does not have an official degree from a reputable institution. Most likely they are just trying to hose you by making up junk everyday.

Go to a psychiatrist for your problems, though, and you WILL get medication. Psychiatrists are medical doctors with a little bit of a psychology background. They basically believe that almost all mental disorders are caused by chemical imbalances, and so forth (essentially, psychosis is purely biological).

Psychologists, on the other hand, recognize the benefit of drugs but also believe that mental disorders can be attributed in large part to purely mental causes. They'll prescribe drugs for you, but you'll also do all the talking stuff. The problem is, though, psychologists cost a helluva lot more than a psychiatrist. You don't spend years going to see the same psychologist for your problems, either, unless you're seeing one of those Freudian psychoanalysts.

Statistically, you're not going to show any more improvement after your 26th session, but rather level off in your condition.

[Vibecrewangel]

I don't know if I an anomally or if I am what could be "normal" (I hate that word....normal)

I went through a lot....more than most people but less than others. In addition to that I have some problems that are probably not related to my upbringing. I'm mildly dyselxic. Wasn't identified until I was almost 21. I have cronic insomnia. Mild to moderate OCD it gets worse when I am stressed. Trichotillomania (sp). Anorexia and bulimia when I was younger....
I never got diagnosed or treated for these, so I never knew anything was wrong. I ended up fighting through things in school but in the end, I found ways to deal with it. I think if I had been diagnosed I might not be doing so well. Tell a kid they have a problem often enough and they will have a problem. Mild cases should never be treated. Most people will work through them. It's only if they are more severe or the person is having serious difficulty because of it should it ever become an issue.

Seriously.....look up a list of psycholigical disorder and you'll find that most people have quite a few. We are so obsessed with naming things we are making a mountain out of a grain of sand.

BTW - I have always had bad luck with therapists. They drug me, they try to get me to dwell on things (this is the part I hated the most.....my depression is based on that fact that I can't let go of things.....making me go over it a billion times DOES NOT HELP) they try to get me to make excuses for things like when I found out about my dyslexia.....
Sometimes I swear they make healthy people insane. Not that some people don't need therapy. Or meds. But I really think that far too many people are taking this route unncessarally.

I did however find one very good therapist. I paid her to do me a favor. To listen, ask a few questions and then give me an honest opinion on if I needed help. We spent a few session we talked about things. I told her how I felt about everything. A lot of which I've posted here.....my opinions on mental health, diagnoses, society, the world. I cut loose. You know what she told me.....she told me she couldn't help me. She told me I would get just as much talking to a friend when I needed it as I would get from her. That especially in my case, having a bout of depression or randomly needing to talk about my family is normal and healthy. She told me that through all my searching I had naturally come to do many of the things that they tell people to do. She also told me that a lot of people are lazy. They want someone else to fix their problems. They want to have excuses for their problems. Therapy is a booming business because people just don't want to deal with it themselves.
She also suggested I write about it....funny...that's being suggested a lot these days.....not to give arm chair therapy, but simply to make is known that regular people, with absolutly no knowledge of medical terms and pshychological babble can get through their own problems if the would just stop whining and looking for a quick fix.

Lord that can be applied to a lot of life these days.....

[Protoclown]

Vibecrew, once again I am impressed by your attitude. I really have a great deal of respect for you and the fact that you overcame so many difficulties as you were growing up.

One trend that disturbs me is when people seem to be PROUD of their mental disorders. I have a friend who will gladly go down the list of all the mental disorders he has had and still has, as if each one is a seperate badge of honor to be displayed with pride. I could never understand that mentality, or how or why it's created. I guess perhaps it comes with the territory of going through therapy and having every single "disorder" or problem labeled. The names give sometimes ordinary, relatively normal things a distorted sense of importance.

I think perhaps people who do that also do it so they can throw out any of their disorders as an excuse for their behavior, so they don't have to be responsible for their actions. This particular friend is the WORST alcoholic I have ever known, and his inconsiderate drunken behavior has driven away nearly all my other friends who will no longer associate with this guy in any capacity. He makes no apologies, he merely states that his drinking problem is a part of who he is, and if you don't accept that, you don't accept him. I have told him that what he says is total bullshit, but it's like talking to a brick wall with this guy. Basically he thinks he can act like a complete asshole whenever he wants and then it's "HEY! You can't blame ME! I'm an alcoholic!" or "I'm depressed" or whatever.

I have tried making an effort to help this guy with his drinking problem, but I've since given up. At one point I felt like it was my duty as a friend, but I've done MORE than my duty as a friend, I've put up with more than I should ever have had to from someone I CALL a friend, and nothing I said or did ever made a difference in the least. I now realize there's only so much I can do, and HE has to be the one to want to change before anything can happen. It sounds shitty and I hate to feel like I'm abandoning him, but I am NOT going to let him fuck up my life with his problems that he could solve for himself if he had the slightest bit of willpower whatsoever.

[Vibecrewangel]

Thanks Proto. :) It feels weird to talk about it. Honestly, the internet makes it a lot easier. I've always been afraid of of coming off as the "poor little victim" or the "angry surviver with no comapassion" It is very hard to talk about without sounding whiny, preachy or like you are looking for attention. But damn it....I see so much stupid shit. I see so many people doing things that just make no damn sense to me. People making excuses and looking for easy answers. And it frustrates the hell out of me. I swear, if I can just get people to just stop being such deliberate dumb-asses everything I went through would be worth it. Hence my desire to write about it now.

You know, you really hit the nail on the head in you last post. People want an excuse for their behavior. For whatever reason they would rather have a justification than actually try to change the behavior. I just don't get that. If you know something is wrong or if you don't like something about yourself then change it. Don't give it a name and then act like that means it isn't fixable. What the hell is that? Sheesh.



So my dyselxia got diagnosed when I was hired at the special education grade school. I had to take a series of tests just to become a secretary. I also had to talk to a counselor/therepist to see if I could handle working with severely handicapped and autistic children.
My form of dyslexia is considered "quite common" and "under-diagnosed" (Please note my annoyance....you'll see why in a second) I do not switch numbers or letters. I do not see things upside down. I simply can not work with order of operation. Like in algebra, card games, technical concepts, rituals (this made being a witch funny as hell...yeah high school witch phase) driving directions......
Now I fully admit my problem is real. I actually spent a good part of my life thinking I was just bad at math and was bad with directions. Seriously...I think this is all it is but people wanted a reason. And reasons easily become excuses. No matter how hard I try, even now, it just won't hold in my head. Even memorization tricks fail. But when the therapist told me it was a real form of dyslexia and that if I had been diagnosed in school I would have been able to take longer on tests and have a list of steps available when doing algebra (um...doesn't that defeat the purpose of algebra?) I had to laugh. I mean really, give a high schooler an excuse to take the easy way out. Well hell, sign just about everyone up. Most people won't cheat because it is wrong, but hell, I could have had permission. And I know I would have taken it. Math f'n killed me. But I wonder, if I had known that....what other things would I have passed up because I had a "learning disability"
I'm glad I didn't know.

The ironic things is my OCD is an order of operation. (I'm curious about this, but Idon't think knowing why will fix it) I have to perfom certain actions (check light switches, plugs, windows) in a certain order before I can go to bed or leave the house. Now, I'm sure your saying "everyone checks those things" However, everyone does not circle the house in that pattern 7 times checking the same things over and over. Everyone does not get up in the middle of the night and do it again. And everyone does not have panic attacks all day if they don't do it.
Again, I never knew what it was so I learned to work with it. I just make sure I start my pattern 10 min before I would need to leave if I didn't do it. Hell, my friends love it (now...) it's a quirk and a friendly joke. Doctors suggested medication.....I suggested they shove it. It isn't debilitating. It is annoying sometimes when I kepp getting up at night. But, when that happens it is an indicator thet something is really bothering me. It's helped me to catch problems before they become a stress or depression issue.

We used to be bad at math. Now we have a form of dyslexia.
We used to twirl our hair around our finger, maybe pull out a strand two. It was called a bad habit and our mom's slapped our hand. Now it is called trichotillomania and you get medicated for it.
We used to be called lazy. Now we have Chronic Fatigue Syndome.
I'm serious look at the list......I did, and if I listed all the things I technically have I'd be the most mentally ill person alive. But then, anyone who did that would come out the same way.

It angers me. These disorders and syndromes are named because there are people that REALLY suffer from them. They pluck their heads bald and tear out their eyelashes. They wash their hands until they bleed. People like me have them as mild cases. I still pluck at my hair, but I am concious of it now so I can for the most part stop myself. Well that and I pluck the hairs out of my knees to satisfy the urge. But damn it.....it seems like everyone wants to have a disroder. Trust me, it ain't all it's cracked up to be.

And then I see people like my mom and sister. Who were/are seriously troubled and they never get treated......
I just don't get it.


The names give sometimes ordinary, relatively normal things a distorted sense of importance.
I think this bears repeating.

[george]

the public school system can HAVE YOUR KID diagnosed as having ADD and make it a condition that they be medicated if they want to return to class.

[Vibecrewangel]

Jeanette - Being that the meds didn't work for me I can't relate to you fully, however having problems of my own I can sympathize. I would never in a million years say that meds are completely unncessary (I wish my sis would take them) it's just that far more people are taking them then actually need them.

Another story (sorry, I know I've been a tad verbose today...)
A friend of mine recently got diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

He'd had a week vacation and decided to go shoping the first day and then sit at home and veg. He slept a lot. Watched TV. Showered a couple of times. But was for the most part a couch spud. When he tried to get up for work the following Monday he felt like crap and thought he was sick. He ended up calling in sick for another three days and then went to the doctor. He was feeling worse. More tired. Sleeping more. Weak. Not very hungry. They checked him for mono and diabetes (sp). Nothin. The diagnoses.....CFS.
So he calls me all worried he's got CFS. I laughed so hard my sides hurt for a week. When I calmed down he asked what was so funny. I told him that CFS was another way of calling a person lazy. I told him to go walk around the block and then let me know how he felt. He ended up calling is doctor to ask him about what he said and his doctor confirmed. His doctor though I was a kick in the pants.
I have to sympathize with doctors a bit. A person comes in...lazy bad diet, doesn't feel well. Doctor tells them eat better and get some excercise. Well hell, this aint no answer. Patient keeps coming back. Doctor tells patient he has CFS and makes same reccomendation and well hey. Now it has a name.....I'm sick.....I know he suggested diet and excercise...but I'm sick...I can't do that....I hace CFS......it has a name.....so it proves I'm sick.


You know...people have actually received disability checks for CFS. Paid for being lazy. All because it has a name.

[Vibecrewangel]

the public school system can HAVE YOUR KID diagnosed as having ADD and make it a condition that they be medicated if they want to return to class.

I know....this just baffles me.

When did it become wrong to be a kid? And why? What the hell happened? We were all kids once.....it wasn't like this. Was it?

[AChimp]

That's also in my psych textbook. Giving something a fancy name legitimizes it and makes people want to seek "treatment," even if the doctor says "just get off your ass."

See, if a doctor recommends you get exercise just to stay healthy, will you do it? No, you probably won't get any more exercise than when you already get. But, if the doctor were to tell you that you have fatassitis, and that you NEED to exercise in order to get better, you'll probably follow his advice.

In other news, the depression came back today for a while. But now it's gone. :chatter

[O71394658]

The entire problem with ADHD is just terrible.

As most of us know, the recent facination over Ritalin as the "cure-all" of ADHD in children is literally scaring the crap out of me. Firstly, the drug is new. Becoming popular about 5 years ago (Ritalin use has increased about 5-fold in the past 5 years). Like many drugs out there, people can only speculate how it works. No one really knows what it does, to be perfectly honest. It affects areas of the brain that control attention, some of the most important and basic aspects that are necessary for normal human function. Most people on Ritalin are kids, which is the scariest part of all. The brain is constantly growing. Pumping hundreds of milligrams of Ritalin into a developing brain every day has got to have some serious detrimental effects to normal brain development. Like I said before, the drug is relatively new (about 20 years) so long-term side effects aren't readily discernable yet. As the "Ritalin kids" grow up, I can only imagine what the hell is going to happen.

It's used, much as everyone else said, an excuse. Personally, Vibe, I'm amazed that you've learned how to deal with all the shit you've been put through. I'm also amazed that you've taken personal responsibility and managed to turn into a pretty intelligent individual as a result. But most people don't get it. Doctors (if you don't know, many doctors are actually given money, basically "referrals" by drug compaines if they get patients to take their drugs) overprescribe it way too often. ADHD exists because a couple of doctors said it does. There are a multitude of other mental illnesses out there that have either the same or very similar symptoms as ADHD, and to which Ritalin use has been detrimental. For example, say Johny shows signs of restlessness in class. So, his mother takes him to a doctor, who pumps him chock full of Ritalin. Johny may have another illness, and the presence of Ritalin may make his illness worse. Teachers are recommending it to parents as an excuse for nonbehavior. Parents are using it as routes to escape from actual, healthy parenting. Instead of discipline, they're just classified as "overactive" and "restless", so the doctor throws some Ritalin at them. They don't have to be parents anymore, just nurses. Make sure Johny takes his pills, and everything is going to be fine. It's proven that Ritalin has been shows to produce insomnia, restlessness (funny huh?), seizures, and a recent study has shown that it often is detrimental to bone development. Is this really something to be given to growing and developing kids?

I'm not saying Ritalin (Ritalin just being an example. This is in relation to the multitudes of physical and mental ailments out there) is the problem, or that people don't need it. It's just that, most people don't...

[Vibecrewangel]

Okay.....I have to ask...am I just overly intutive?
I have NEVER taken a psych or a philo class. I've never really even read anything on either subject. Sure, looking something up here or there. But no actual research.
But obviously I'm on the right track fairly often. It kinda creeps me out sometimes. Kelly and Ror have both remarked that I seem to follow certain ideas or theories. They've even cited sources. Remarking that sometimes I blend them and sometimes one thing I say contadicts another based on the research. They've listed authors and PhDs and I think to myself "Who are those people"
Honestly, even the big names....those grand old greeks and romans....mean nothing to me. I didn't even know what Buddhism really was until last year and yet my entire view of existance fits right it. Sometimes I'm embarrased that I don't know the sources....usually I am just werided out.

Seriously....everything I talk about all just comes from my own ponderings and watching the world go by.

[Vibecrewangel]

07 - Thanks. I just don't understand it. I know what I went through was bad. Sometimes I forget how bad... But at the same time it was just life. I have absolutly no idea why my reaction too it is so different from most other peoples.

Too bad I can't bottle it and sell it as the miracle cure for the mentally ill. Instead I just try to talk about my stance. How I feel. What I've learned. Hope that what I say clicks for some people. Sometimes I think that is what happened to me. Someone said something or I saw something and though I don't remember it now it did something to the way I saw the world.

[AChimp]

Your mushroom pic gives you POWERS.

But anyways, I've figured out why I get depressed. I ruminate (yes, that is the technical term for brooding). Because I am so pessimistic all the time, I will analyze a situation over and over and over and over and over until all I've done is focus on the negative aspects and until I've blown them way out of proportion and forgotten what actually happened. Then, I have to spend a few more days reminding myself that my new interpretation is completely distorted and then a few more days trying to remember what originally occurred.

I can seriously spend days wondering if there was any significant meaning behind a shrug. A fucking shrug. :(

See, the brief summary of my Loveline thread is that I was recently in a relationship where I thought things were going great. I really, really, really care(d) a lot about this girl, and then all of a sudden one day, "you know, I was thinking a month ago that this might not be working, but I've put off telling you about my concerns. Oh, what's that? You want to talk about it? Well, sorry. I had a really bad relationship in the past, so I push people away. That's what I do. Maybe I'll change one day. No, I don't want to go out with you. I don't want to hurt you. You don't have to prove how great you are to me blah blah blah blah blah. Okay, maybe we'll talk about it a bit.... okay, talking is done. I agree with many of your points, but I've already made up my mind, so I will stop talking to you now and start thinking that you are out for revenge against me. If anyone asks, that's what I'm going to tell them: that sensitive pussy man AChimp is out for blood and I have to lay low."

(Actual conversation was much longer and involved me talking, getting angry, apologizing, getting depressed, then angry again, and more talking. Above conversation dramatized due to my pessimism and probably a fair amount of bitterness, too)

So now, you see, knowing all about her past really bad relationship, and the fact that she agreed with me on a lot of the points I raised in our discussions and the fact that I spend the last two months tearing my hair out and trying to apologize to her for how I acted has resulted in her avoiding me even more.

I spent the last two months trying to apologize for getting pissed off (I said a few pretty mean things and that still really bothers me) only to end up standing there like an idiot because I completely forgot what I was going to say. Her response, "okay." That was it. "Okay." So, what did I do? I wrote it all in a letter. I originally intended for the letter to only be a couple pages, but I wrote ELEVEN FUCKING PAGES and then gave it to her! No response, of course, not even the "tell me to fuck off to put my mind at ease" response that I asked for as a last resort.

I've spent all my time wondering about all the things I could have done differently, all the things I should be doing, and trying to figure out exactly what it is that's going through her head. :(

So there. I think I need to stop thinking. :(

[Protoclown]

life ain't nuttin but bitches and money


remember that and you will go far

[AChimp]

THANK YOU FOR THAT NUGGET OF WISDOM, PROTOCLOWN. >:

I've tried thinking of her as just an object, actually. And it made me feel better, too, until I was overcome with guilt and felt worse than ever for days. :(

[Vibecrewangel]

But anyways, I've figured out why I get depressed. I ruminate (yes, that is the technical term for brooding). Because I am so pessimistic all the time, I will analyze a situation over and over and over and over and over until all I've done is focus on the negative aspects and until I've blown them way out of proportion and forgotten what actually happened. Then, I have to spend a few more days reminding myself that my new interpretation is completely distorted and then a few more days trying to remember what originally occurred.

Welcom to my world Chimp. Hopefully you won't stay long. The food is bad and the accomodations suck.
This is EXACTLY what did. Still do sometimes. I wish I had some better advice.....but....well....this is all I got......
I decided to use the thing that was causing the problem to make it better. Logic told me that if one direction didn't help try the other. Insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. :)

So what I did is when I caught myself starting to dwell. I let it happen. But I didn't just brood. I didn't just let it take it's course. I forced it. I talked to myself. I had imaginary conversations with the other person(s) I ran every scenario. Every possibility. I worte letters that have never been sent (God don't send them) I went over it and over it and over it in the shortest time possible. Instead of the slow depression of dwelling I had the forced anger and frustration of pushing the issue to the extreme. At first it seemed counter productive. I'd be all angry and depressed for a day or two but then instead of that damn lingering depression it started an upward swing. Now, I know what my triggers are both for cause and for getting over it. Most of my depression is fairly normal now. Which of course leads me to the really really super mondo important part. Some depression is normal. Being upset about what you went through is okay. Hell, you wwould be more unhealthy if you weren't upset. Don't strive to never be depressed. I'm sure you've read this, probaby even been told. But I speak from experience. Also, and this is much more difficult but still critical. Accept that sometimes you won't get "closure" A lot of my dwelling was because I was looking for that answer. That why. Now, and it is hard, I just have accept that the answer won't be coming. It is one of the good things that came from my mother passing away.....I had to accept that I would never get the answers. The first time is the hardest. And since mine was a big one......

It isn't much, but I hope it helps.

[Protoclown]

Chimp, it sounds to me like you're obsessing over this girl. I posted something in your big loveline thread you should read. It's not healthy, dude. Get over it and let it go.

[Vibecrewangel]

I used to hear that a lot Proto. "Let it go" "You're over reacting" "Stop dwelling on it" I wish I could explain it, but for some people it just isn't that easy. And I don't expect anyone who hasn't experienced it to understand it. Kinda like child birth. It's like being locked in a room with with a VCR and a tv playing the same movie over and over and over. And the longer it plays the more distorted it gets. You push all the buttons it doesn't stop. You unplug everything it doesn't stop. You beat on it doesn't stop. You then have to sowly pick it apart until you find that one little piece that makes it stop. And every issue you have is a different video and every time you have to go through all the damn motions and then pick it apart.

After a while I figured out what parts most often stopped my videos. Makes it a lot easier once the dame case is open.

Get the feeling I use a lot of imagery to help myself? I done gots me a real vivid minds eye.....

[AChimp]

Thanks Vibe. That does help a lot.

I've lost count of the imaginary conversations that I've had over this, ranging from everything working out to both of us ending up hating each other forever.

And it's much easier to say "let it go" than it is in reality. I dunno what it is that triggers the difficulty, though. I with my ex (psycho ex) when the relationship ended, it was just... whatever. I didn't care. In fact, I was happy. I was a little bit sad, but that maybe lasted a couple days and it didn't affect my health at all.

I have tried to let go of this, believe me. I have tried for three months ever since she told me that she "wasn't sure if we should be dating or just really close friends." Everything she said either introduced a whole new angle, or even worse, contradicted something the had said no more than 5 minutes earlier. I have a feeling that she was also confused, and I would have really liked to be able to talk with her about it. I just keep thinking about it over and over.

Every time I tried to let go, part of me would hang on and then take over again and in a few days I was depressed all over again, probably about some other little detail that I had suddenly remembered. Then I would go through everything start to finish, over and over. Each memory rehearsed again and again and again trying to find some clue that could have--no, should have--tipped me off.

That's probably why my letter ended up being 11 pages long, everything just came out in one big rush.

Over the last couple weeks, I've realized that there isn't much that I can do about it. Closure would be really, really nice... or reopening for that matter. After all of this, I still care a lot about her. I can't really explain it. Fatbinge and Pub and everyoen else I've talked to think I'm nuts because of it.

But, if she doesn't return the feelings, or wants to avoid everything, that's her choice and I have to respect that and try to deal with it as best I can. :(

[Vibecrewangel]

To be honest Chimp. I think I helped my self most by doing the most fucked up things. Forcing anger to fix the depression, cause anger went away faster is just one example.

If it ain't workin.....break it. Then fix it.

[FS]

I've just come from my therapist's and I am *very* angry at ALL of you. >:

[Krythor]

Put down each one of your thoughts in writing. Handwritten. Maybe it's just me, but I find that it's a healthy outlet that really relieves stress up there.

[kellychaos]

In a possibly failed attempt at trying to summarize the problems of the western world: we're trying to get everything under control.



I don't know if it's the way you meant it, but "getting control" has been a problem for the western world for a long time ... in a larger sense I mean. First, traveling abroad to meet interesting new people ... and killing them. Next, we had to conquer the seas, then classical laws of physics, then space. The only difference now is that, with advances in neurology, psychiatry and microbiology, were turning our desire for control inward. My worries are that the results will probably be just as hideous.

[Baalzamon]

Go out and fuck 10 other women, and I bet you wont be thinking about her anymore ;)

But seriously, If you try to interact with more people, and most importantly GET OUT OF THE HOUSE MORE!, you will probably find that you start to get over it and probably dont even give a shit about her anymore(relatively speaking).

Staying in your basement ruminating like you have been for the last 3 months is probably the most unhealthy thing you could have been doing. If you absolutely MUST ruminate, Its best done outside the house, and its also good to talk to other people about it. Other people are more likely to notice when you are being illogical and looking too deeply into something petty.


But basically find something, anything, that you can motivate yourself to do, and let it occupy your mind once in a while. You'd be surprised how much even a few hours of relief from thinking about the problem can help.

[Dole]

I do think the internet is the worst place for those who have a tendency to be insular and overly analytical of themselves, it tends to perpetuate and exaggerate those feelings in people who are that way inclined.

[AChimp]

I think I am cured! :eek

After I turned off my computer last night, I sat there for a bit and thought about what has been said here, especially Vibe's comments, and I realized how completely and utterly stupid I have been. I was depressed over nothing. I was blowing everything out of proportion.

All this time, I realized, I had thought that she was the one who changed, and while this IS true to an extent, I see now that it was me who changed. I became angry and withdrawn and eventually lost myself in my own misery.

It's kind of disturbing to realize that for the last three months, you have not been yourself at all.

The best part is, though, as I climbed into bed, I suddenly realized that I was happy. I can't explain it; I was happy because now it is finally over. I was being gay, and I have finally seen it. Why the hell would she want to talk to me if all I was going to do was bring up little details and demand explanations for the most mundane things? Why would she want to talk to me if we would both end up feeling worse?

I think the thing that made me snap out of it was the realization that I brought this upon myself. Once I realized that I was being a stupid faggot about everything, it all snapped back into place.

Once I realized that I was happy, I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed until I thought that, rather than going back to normal, I'd finally lost it. :)

Now I have to initiate damage control. I've been a real drag on all my friends for the last three months and they've put up with a lot of my moaning and whining.

I also need to figure out a way to best approach this girl and try to explain what happened to me, or if that's even a good idea at all. Of course, at this moment, it doesn't matter to me anymore if I actually do talk to her, though... being happy again is a very strange feeling indeed. :)

[Dole]

Thats good chimp, but DONT go and tell her all this crap, just leave it. Then you can get on with life :)

[AChimp]

Yeah, I think she already knows I'm a stupid faggot. :)

[Protoclown]

No relationship is worth that kind of trouble anyway. Toss it aside and find a better one.

[Sethomas]

Proto: I don't really have strong faith in the normal sense of the term. I arrived at my beliefs by a process of observation and reason, and so my "faith" simply depends on what makes rational sense to me. It follows that my beliefs require a certain lifestyle which I generally strive to follow. I realize that my life would be a lot easier (and shorter) if I were to not believe in God, but I have never seen a convincing argument to those ends. The only way I could abandon my beliefs and lifestyle would be to convincingly contradict my observations, otherwise to live as an atheist would go against my own rationality.

I believe because belief makes sense, not because I have faith.

[Baalzamon]

Good job chimp. Just be carefull about how much you throw around the "I AM CURED!" thing. Theres no way to be sure that this wont cycle back on itself once in a while, and you dont want to fool yourself. You never know what will happen inside your head next time you see or talk to her, and you should be prepared for that.

But otherwise good stuff.


I also need to figure out a way to best approach this girl and try to explain what happened to me, or if that's even a good idea at all. Of course, at this moment, it doesn't matter to me anymore if I actually do talk to her, though... being happy again is a very strange feeling indeed.

Um, seriously man, just start acting normal again and it will take care of itself. People can notice these things. Theres no need for another letter when all you have to do is act normally. When you try to spell these things out for people it just makes you sound crazy. Let it reflect in your attitude and actions instead.

Now I have to initiate damage control. I've been a real drag on all my friends for the last three months and they've put up with a lot of my moaning and whining.


I think those of us that have been following this online understand. Just ignore any insults from snake, because thats probably the only shit you'll have to put up with about this.

Once again, if you want to do damage controll, all you have to do is act normally. There is no need for any type of gay formality to it.

[AChimp]

You never know what will happen inside your head next time you see or talk to her, and you should be prepared for that.
Hmm... maybe I should carry Peril Sensitive sunglasses with me. Or a hardhat.

Once again, if you want to do damage controll, all you have to do is act normally. There is no need for any type of gay formality to it.
You're such a fag. ;)

[Baalzamon]

fuck you fag ;)

[AChimp]

STFU. You can't intimidate me with your big cock like you do to the ladies. >:

[Baalzamon]

Hey man, you're the one who keeps bringing up this "intimidation" thing, not me, so YOU STFU!

:troutslap

[kellychaos]

Quote from The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck, M.D.


Life is difficult.

This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths *. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult - once we truly understand and accept it - then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.

Most do not fully see this truth that life is difficult. Instead they moan more less incessantly, noisily or subtly, about the enormity of their problems, their burdens,and their difficulties as if life were generally easy, as if life should be easy. They voice their belief, noisily or subtly, that their difficulties represent a unique kind of affliction that should not be and that has somehow been visited upon them, or else upon their families, their tribe, their class, their nation, their race or even their species, and not upon others. I know about this moaning because I have done my share.

Life is a series of problems. Do we want to moan about them or solve them? Do we want to teach out children to solve them?

Discipline is the basic set of tools we require to solve life's problems. Without discipline we can solve nothing.

* The first of the "Four Noble Truths" which Buddha taught was "Life is suffering."

[kahljorn]

Medications are lame, because of them we lost all our soothsayers and Seers. What a waste.

Schitzophrenia runs in my family, both of my uncles are schitzophrenic. One is drug induced, one is just natural(but drugs helped I'm sure). They say the later needs to be medicated, and he does if he doesn't want to see God in a milk carton. He's always happy though, after breakfast, and he's had a nice conversation with God. Or he left the liquor store and bought cigarettes for Jesus and left them in the Fridge next to milk.
How could you want to medicate someone who has found God. He drinks alot of milk, stays healthy. The only bad thing is he wanders the streets for months at a time and smokes lots of crack. But the love is there.

I'm mostly Bi-polar, mood swings are fun. One day you want to sleep, the next you can naturally be up hyper dance style, writing like Chigi the left handed guy who sings in a spoon. Yogurts pretty good when you think about it. One day you're sad, the next day you're glad you were sad but then you get mad and the thoughts you had become bad and your dad hates your latest fad.
Occasionally when it's dark out I see black cats, these blackcats soon transform into such objects as soap containers and the like. It's my spirit guide I'm content to say, occasionally when high enough I see a wolf, or hear the hymning. You know that hymning noise, it's important. An electric impulse is occasional, with that slight glee and danger surrounding it. You can't help but wonder what the fuck I'm talking about. Light fringes on vision often tranforms into celestial wisps, dancing to and fro in the lack of my comfort, in the space of my transcending of current.

[sspadowsky]

Perhaps someone should shut down the PC and sleep it off for a while. :blah

[Sethomas]

I've mentioned before that I have schizoaffective disorder, but never really explained it. Basically, it's bipolar disorder complicated by schizophrenic episodes. My schizophrenia plays out as a complete lack of desire to live and inability for joy, as well as what I rationalize has hightened awareness of God's interaction with the world. As things work out, I have three week periods of extreme depression, followed by three week periods in which I still want to die but at least I'm not barraged with constant reminders of how much life sucks, and then I have three weeks when I can read minds and the radio tells me to murder people.

I really find the whole thing hilarious, it just sucks that it happens to be my life.

[Vibecrewangel]

Chimpy - I'm so glad you are feeling better! I'm not sure how what I said in any way helped you...it seems to me that what others said played more of a part......but either way the important thing is that you feel better.
Much hugs and happiness to you my little monkey man!

[AChimp]

I am mellowing out now. I am no longer euphoric, but the overall happiness/contentedness has remained, except for a brief period where I got pissed off at my dad. :)

[Cosmo Electrolux]

I can;t remember what my doctor called my particular disorder, but I get no pleasure out of life..they put me on meds for a while, but I took myself off of them. I hated the fucking things.

[AChimp]

Stop seeing psychiatrists. See psychologists instead. :(

[Cosmo Electrolux]

that was my family doctor....:(

[AChimp]

General physicians aren't qualified to be diagnosing mental disorders. >:

[kahljorn]

I noticed it's the latest trend to pretend you're insane and pretend you take a bunch of meds. That's so lame, I was talking to this girl and she said she takes mood stabalizers and anti-psychotics, I asked her what kind and what she said was some kind of anti-seizure medicine or something :/ Are mood stabalizers for seizures?

[AChimp]

I don't think so. :/

Either she's making it up, or she's too stupid to know what the doctor was telling her.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

Actually Chimp, he told me I'd hate them, but he wanted me to try them and therapy...I tried the meds, they made me want to die. I did some research and found that some SRI's make people suicidal. He changed my meds and it got worse. When I found myself sitting at the end of my driveway crying because I didn;t have the guts to pull out in front of a speeding dumptruck, I decided that this wasnt normal and the meds had to go. I'm still quite miserable, but no longer suicidal.

[Anonymous]

kahljorn - actually yes there are a few she could be referring to

cosmo - make sure it gets reported, especially because there is a big cover-up about that, and now they are trying to say it only affects people that way who are under the age of 18
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/

...

[Cosmo Electrolux]

I'll report it Doopa...those things are dangerous.

[Vibecrewangel]

Cosmo - Prozac did that to me too. 10mg a day and I went from being depressed but functional to being a complete zombie with no desire other than to sleep and eat garlic bread to someone actually contemplating doing some very bad things just to see what would happen.

I'm an explorer and very curious by nature. Prozac made my thoughts really dark and those traits were starting to express themselves in some really scary ways. I so glad a few of my friends pointed it out. On any normal day I couldn't hurt a fly but I was expressing some very dark desires. It really worried them because they knew about my family and how my mom went down the same road.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

My "friends" may have noticed the bizzare changes in my personality, but failed to clue me in. I starting taking 20 mg of Celexa and eventually went up to the maximum dosage (80 mg). I was basically a zombie, but still somewhat functional. I then was switched to another medication (the name escapes me) and thats when the weirdness peaked. It was supposed to be the same thisng as Celexa, but in a more concentrated form.

[AChimp]

Hmm... I think I've figured out another problem that contributed to my bout of depression: I am impatient.

This situation has dragged out over the course of months, and I always like to resolve things as quickly as possible so I can get on with my life. I'm okay with postponing things for a little while, but after a couple days, my mind starts getting suspicious and thinks too much. :(

[Cosmo Electrolux]

I thought you said you were impotent....:(

[AChimp]

I have a boner 90% of the time. :(

[Baalzamon]

Hmm... I think I've figured out another problem that contributed to my bout of depression: I am impatient.

This situation has dragged out over the course of months, and I always like to resolve things as quickly as possible so I can get on with my life. I'm okay with postponing things for a little while, but after a couple days, my mind starts getting suspicious and thinks too much.


Everyones impatient when they care about something. And of course, to fuck with us, women do everything in their power to drag things out when they know we care about them and want a quick resolution.

Its a shitty spot to be in, and its not easy to dig yourself out, but you will eventually.

As I said, you just need less contact with her, and tons of things to keep your mind occupied elsewhere. problem solved. As soon as you find another girl it will be 100% cured.

[kahljorn]

GET A HOOKER.

I want to have a prozac binge now :(

[The_Rorschach]

I get up, and nothing gets me down
You got it tough, I've seen the toughest around
And I know, baby, just how you feel
You've got to roll with the punches to get to what's real