Yes, it is 2003, but are we getting closer to 1984?

[Immortal Goat]

If you have read the amazingly entertaining (yet wholly depressing) novel 1984 by George Orwell, then you know what I am talking about. I fear that our world is getting closer to the "negative Utopia" described within it's pages. With stronger government control over our daily lives, we are starting to see "Big Brother" come around. It is only a matter of time before history as we know it will cease to exist, and instead, we will be force-fed a re-worked version of the past that will suit the needs of the government. This is, of course, if things proceed to go the way they are. It can be prevented, but not with our current leadership.

[AChimp]

Heh. Maybe on your side of the border. Up here nobody cares. ;)

[Perndog]

Most of us don't care in the States, either.

[ScruU2wice]

i can safely say that ill probably dead before i start worrying about any of it :( :)

[The_voice_of_reason]

I already have people watching me through cameras all day. :(

[AChimp]

But they're paying you $19.95 per month for their subscriptions, so that doesn't count. >:

[CaptainBubba]

The day he starts actually charging us is the day I steal my mom's credit card. :(

[The_voice_of_reason]

I'll be a millionare over night.







I only have 2 subscribers but once word gets out, I'll make a killing.

[Sir Douglas Chapwire]

Not 1984 per se, since that's a very communistish society, which given the time that Orwell was writing in isn't surprising. I'd imagine something more along the lines of Mussolinian fascism.

(Hmm, I made up two words, communistish and Mussolinian.)

[FS]

WHAT!?@!?@?

HOLY SHIT GUYS 1984 IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER

NEVER FORGET

FUCK WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE

GOD DAMMIT I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT THIS WHAT THE FUCK

HELP

[UtterParadox]

If you have read the amazingly entertaining (yet wholly depressing) novel 1984 by George Orwell, then you know what I am talking about. I fear that our world is getting closer to the "negative Utopia" described within it's pages.

1. There's a word for "negative utopia". It's "dystopia".
2. 1984 was one of the most boring books I've ever read.
3. The way the Constitution is written, the government doesn't have enough power to create that sort of world. They'd have to ditch the Constitution in order to finish the job, and not even Dubya's dumb enough to do that.
4. We're already getting the reworked version of history. Columbus was a mass-murderer, Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves, and FDR was more of a horndog than Clinton.
5. For Big Brother to work, you need steady government control. Our system switches leaders every 4-8 years, so that's not going to work.
6. Nice little slam at Bush in the last sentence.

[mburbank]

Washington and Jefferson didn't own slaves?

[AChimp]

Well, Max, you see, technically they weren't slaves; they were really just a bunch of blacks who decided that it would be nice of them to work for free.

[The One and Only...]

3. The way the Constitution is written, the government doesn't have enough power to create that sort of world. They'd have to ditch the Constitution in order to finish the job, and not even Dubya's dumb enough to do that.

The Constitution has already been thrown out the door in a few areas. Example: look at the power the judicial branch now holds.

[UtterParadox]

Washington and Jefferson didn't own slaves?

You missed the point. What I was spouting was actually the TRUE version of history. The fake version reads as follows: "Columbus was a noble explorer, Washington and Jefferson never exploited their fellow man, and FDR was celibate."

[CaptainBubba]

The way the Constitution is written, the government doesn't have enough power to create that sort of world. They'd have to ditch the Constitution in order to finish the job, and not even Dubya's dumb enough to do that.

Ya, but do you really expect someone who has the ability to take more power and who wants to to give a damn? The constituion becomes more meaningless every day. If anyone gave a shit about the constitution Bush would be out of office.

[ranxer]

If anyone gave a shit about the constitution Bush would be out of office.

really? i thought those that were calling for impeachment/restoring the constitution have been slammed by the orwelian 'patriots' claiming that they are just usa haters..

as 1984 slogans go it seems we are mostly there:
"War is Peace"
"Freedom is Slavery"
"Ignorance is Strength"

[El Blanco]

Ranx, what about your moto:

"Paranoia is power"

[The One and Only...]

Ranx is by far the strangest poster I've seen on this forum. For all his paranoia and fear of the government, he supports left wing politics. Strange, I tell ya...

[The_Rorschach]

"If you have read the amazingly entertaining (yet wholly depressing) novel 1984 by George Orwell, then you know what I am talking about."

Isn't this still required reading in High School? I found it more amusing than anything else, even when I read it initially. People seem to think politicians are either the ultimate agents of unrelenting evil, or bumbling beaurocrats incapable of effecting change.

[bluedisc]

ive never read 1984 but my friends that read books have told me all about it. its the rave! its not required reading, though animal farm is. anyway i just wanna agree with the guy who started this thread. im afriad that "homeland security" (which is a lame name might i add) could be a threat cause it's new and was created by a terrible administration, the bush admin. also, does the nsa even exist? and if so how strong are they? and are they run by benevolant (good) people? protect the constitution! apathy is suicide!

[Big McLargehuge]

I have a shirt that has Uncle Sam in the "I want you" pose with the words "war is peace freedom is slavery ignorance is strength"



Yeah and fuck the person above me.

[Perndog]

American high schools don't have standard literature curriculums - either the local school board chooses what will be read, or it's the teacher's choice. At least in my high school, we were split into Honors and basic English from 9-12 grades and we only read about two of the same books (Huckleberry Finn and something I can't even remember).

[bluedisc]

dudes right, teachers choice in il. also huck finn was funny! and i was the only one who laughed. america's full of dummies! or kids these days have no sense of humor. which brings me back to 1984. be smart, don't be that damn donkey from animal farm. if you see something funny happening, dont be afraid to blow the whistle. ill be there to back you up!

[El Blanco]

Go back and beat your English teachers. Seriously.

Is there ever a time a big group with autority isn't refered to as "Big Brother"?

Honestly, I see us moving towards Brave New World myself.

[bluedisc]

done and done...

[ziggytrix]

El Blanco hit the nail on the head.

Consumerism is the God of America. You can buy your Arby's sandwiches at the drive-thru, pay with the credit card, go by the gas station, pay with you credit card at the pump, and if you should need cash, you still don't have to leave your car thanks to the ATM on every corner.

Americans crave new things. The more expensive your clothes are, the more desireable you feel for wearing them, yet the faster they fall apart when you wash them.

But what the fuck can you do about it? The driving force here is NOT the "evil corporation". It's the average citizen, glued to their television, brainwashed by their own choice.

[Big McLargehuge]

IT'S THE DAMN FOREIGNERS STEALING OUR JOBS

[Immortal Goat]

But what the fuck can you do about it? The driving force here is NOT the "evil corporation". It's the average citizen, glued to their television, brainwashed by their own choice.

Very well put, but I beg to differ on the "their own choice" part. People today (at least the people I regularly deal with) do not make their own choices, they simply follow along the set path in front of them. They swallow everything told to them by the television, their priests, and their teachers. They are essentially mindless robots being programmed to follow the crowd. "Ignorance is Strength"? Looks like it to me...

[Perndog]

This is why more people should convert to Satanism.

[Nerd]

I'd have to agree that the US is steadily moving towards that dystopia. The fall of capitilism is enivitible, and when that happens, we will fall into this nightmareish world. It's only a matter of time.

[Immortal Goat]

Thank you for agreeing with me, but...

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU??!!

[george]

feh

EVERYTHING IS A LIE

there will never be a big brother, but i think the usa is in pretty bad shape right now. and i do not think it impossible that we culd start seeing states trying to pull out of the unionin our lifetimes.

mostly cause the federal government no loger resembles the american public in any way shape or form.

[VinceZeb]

The need and want to buy flashy new things is just a space-filler that a good moral system and a believe in a Supreme Being used to fill. Capitalism in and of itself is great. Greed is wrong.

[mburbank]

And after a prolonged stay on the injury list, Vinth returns to the field but offers only a disapointing pop fly.

A casual glance shows four serious language errors. Anyone?

[Big McLargehuge]

I SEE YOU MANAGED TO AVOID ANSWERING HIS QUESTION

[mburbank]

HE DIDN'T ASK A-



Oh. I get it.

[O71394658]

I couldn't find the fourth one. >: :(

[Helm]

1984 was a dissapointing read for me, after all the ever-eager semi-leftist artfag friends of mine hyped it like it was the greatest thing ever put printed in ink. And Orwell if I recall was a British agent, so I guess hardly in a position to present what many hope is unbiased commentary and critique on any system of goverment. And Animal Farm insulted my intelligence when I read it, so I hit it hard on the face in return.

oh and to answer your original question: Flying robots are awe.

[ranxer]

The driving force here is NOT the "evil corporation". It's the average citizen, glued to their television, brainwashed by their own choice.

i beg to differ as well.. advertising giants pipe the crap straight to my kids.. at school they pump in channel one.. then candy machines and soda machines.. grocery stores place crappy toys in the cereal isle.. then the candy boxes.. er cereal boxes advertise stuff from TV .. yes TV plays a central role..

the concept of image is everything is very pervasive.. and lends to the school of fish idea of leadership.. follow the confident.. conform, conform conform. talk to some teachers that have been in it for decades.. they have a good idea of how many 'choices' people make for themselves.. very few.. capitalism with no reigns on business is simply barbaric cannibalism, cooperation for quality is missing from 99% of capitalism reducing our future to the lowest common denomenator >:

[El Blanco]

at school they pump in channel one

I remember channel 1. Well, I remember ignoring everything on it except for Anderson Cooper. Best. Reporter. Ever. Dude would be reporting from a fucking ditch in Somalia with gunfire going off around him. With a better representative, he could have been the next Cronkite.

then candy machines and soda machines

And march them at gunpoint to buy from them? Don't you teach your kids about nutrition?

follow the confident.. conform, conform conform

That is a mentality we bring from our days as pack hunters. Leader steps up, others follow. Its how the world works.

they have a good idea of how many 'choices' people make for themselves.. very few

Who is "they"? Oh, and I have plenty of my own choices.

[Big Papa Goat]

The need and want to buy flashy new things is just a space-filler that a good moral system and a believe in a Supreme Being used to fill. Capitalism in and of itself is great. Greed is wrong.
This post pisses me off more than most of the things Vinth says.

Moral people can be greedy too Vince. And how can you say "Capitalism is great" and "Greed is wrong"??? The wheels of capitalism are not oiled with greed, they're made of greed. People want money, possesions, property, power. Therefore, they take risks, and work hard in order to generate more possesions, make more money, and expand their influence. What else do you think inspires the entrepeneurial spirit?
Seriously Vince, I want to know that you actually had a reason for saying that.

[Immortal Goat]

I don't know if I should be honored or insulted that Vinth returned from his little hiatus and the first new post of his I see is in my thread... :|

[ranxer]

blanco And march them at gunpoint to buy from them? Don't you teach your kids about nutrition?

yes i teach my kids about nutrition..duh, then i can sit them down with the choices of vegetables or a candy bar.. 9 times out of ten they say .. hmm .. first i eat the vegetables then i can have the candybar.. but how many snack machines do you see with something other than crap in them?? they get tired of eating what's 'good' for them and want what everyother kid has.. 9 times out of ten its genetically modified CRAP. kids have a hard time believing that if its sold in stores its often BAD for them.. its me against advertising GIANTS .. i spend a lot of time deprogramming >:

Who is "they"? Oh, and I have plenty of my own choices.

teachers with decades experience can tell you that kids attention spans have dropped dramatically .. why? TV, Video games, fast food etc.. anything that has to do with instant gratification. look at the difference between, say now and when the constitution was written.. back then people could listen to a 2-4 hour lecture through a meal and not get bored.. people READ the paper and wrote letters.. literacy and attention span reduction is a benefit that major advertisers are using to the full extent.. not to mention polititians.

That is a mentality we bring from our days as pack hunters. Leader steps up, others follow. Its how the world works.
so how does that support your arguement that people make thier own choices? it doesn't, that idea supports the idea that people are NOT making thier own choices.. sheesh.

i still like the pithed fish concept.. remove the brain of one schooling fish and the others will follow him! :lol i can't help but think of GWB.. brainless wonder.. the statement that supreme ignorance leads to supreme confidence really fits well.

[El Blanco]

so how does that support your arguement that people make thier own choices? it doesn't, that idea supports the idea that people are NOT making thier own choices.. sheesh.


My point is it isn't the Big Evil Corporations fault.

Raising kids is hard? Wow. There is a revelation.

As for the olden days, there were the same accusations. Remember how Don Quixote got the way he did? Reading adventure books, trying to live them out. Sound familiar?

A hundred years ago, over paranoid parents protested dime novels, Herman Melville and tons of other "cheap pulp crap".

Television is a medium, just like books. If people are watching the crap and letting it affect them, guess whose fault it is.

A hint: It ain't FOX

If people don't watch the shit, networks don't make it.

[Big Papa Goat]

I hate the word candybar. Its chocolate bar! And I also hate the blind opposition to genetically modified foods. But other than those two points, I love ranxer.

[ranxer]

ferget the literacy a hundered years ago. i'm saying that literacy
or objectivity is not supported by a system that thrives on inattention and a lack of objectivity.. profit on scams and false advertising is more rampant than its ever been.. the traveling salesman is outmoded by todays marketing campaigns.. if you spend the bucks on the wrapper it doesnt matter whats inside, most people will buy it if its pretty and cheap.. a system that thrives on that is playing us at our lowest levels ..emotions and complex sexual compulsions.. survival of the fittest has been going on in marketing for more than a while.. marketing evolves almost as fast as viruses these days.. the people junked up on the crap we can buy.. then the pharmecuticals.. add a beer and they don't have a chance at objectivity.. they're way too hooked on maintaining a false reality to think no more than sporadically.
and the corporations count the $$ .. its quite evil
bush has weakened the watchdogs on these con artists for they are his bretheren and financiers.. its a vicious cycle..

If people don't watch the shit, networks don't make it.

that's just not true.. there have been many shows that had unpredented ratings yet were taken off the air for political reasons. What happened to politially incorrect? SNL has been taken off the air in major cities because of political views. have you ever heard from producers that were told 'you can't say that on the air'? or heard about the trouble guests on certain shows get into by speaking their mind? threatened with blacklist often enough. and the ratings went way up for those segments but the networks silenced them anyway. Micheal Moore got record breaking ratings yet was turned down on projects after his series TV Nation. the stories behind what goes on network tv have all manner of fubar though..

[ItalianStereotype]

i beg to differ as well.. advertising giants pipe the crap straight to my kids..

I had hoped, HOPED that you were just some stupid kid who thought conspiracy theories would make you look cool or something.

[The One and Only...]

I can see while ranxer has his views, but I must disagree.

I believe it is the people's responsibility to object to shit they don't like, rather than by putting governmental limits on what you can sell.

Hence why I support people boycotting Wal-Mart, but not the government coming in and breaking up the business. The more power people learn to wield themselves, the less reliant and the better off they'll be.

Also, I find capitialism to be a good system because it plays on greed. I strongly believe that one of the major reasons communism failed was because the lack of incentive to work to one's maximum potential, invent new technology, etc.

[ranxer]

so yer free market.. a market free to make contracts with prisons to get legal slave labor that replaces jobs in the u.s. of a? you think the government should just stay hands off? we will need a lot more than .2 percent of the population boycotting walmart to get those practices to change >:

[Zhukov]

Are you some kind of communist ranxer?

[Drew Katsikas]

Ranxer, there has always been an ignorant mass. Always. Don't think that everyone used to be literate and informed members of society, until TV came and took that away. Admitedly, TV is a huge waste of time, and happens to brainwash people. Well, couple hundred years back, there were many other brainwashing worthless activites. Going to Church. Hell, back then, the services could last up to three hours, the average time an American spends watching TV. Plenty of brainwashing going on there, and plenty of Misogyny and the evils of sex being disseminated by the backwards priests. It was as harmful to listen to those guys as it is to watch television. Both preach bad morals.

And guess what? Just like back then, there are people who can rise above that bullshit. Just as many today as there was yesterday. Intelligent people still exist. I think many of the I-Mockery crew (although there are many exceptions. VINTH) can vouch for that. We all watched television since before we could speak, and ate sugary cereal (gasp) and played with toys and video games. Oh my god! However, we have a reccomended reading section, which, along with a few comic book posts, contains many threads where pople discuss some decent literature. The music section. Almost all the shit in the music section is about hard-working artists that aren't made only to be sold to the masses in any easy to digest form.

Stop kidding yourself. There have always been lots of stupid people, that are brainwashed and idiotic. And there have always been intelligent people. Amounts never vary.

[Immortal Goat]

Drew, that was the most intelligent thing I have heard all week. Still, it's only Tuesday, but you have a good chance of hangin' in there till at least Friday.

[The Administrator]

We should just take a vote now about which dystopia we're gonna end up with. The 1984 model based on fear has been losing ground to the Brave New World model based on avarice...it seems modern neo-capitalism is a compromise that is leaning towards decadance. Our current geopolitical cockfight however is very 1984...give me a soma holiday over two minutes hate any day.

[CaptainBubba]

Exactly. The world in Brave New World was actually designed initially as a utopia. Its citizenry would actually be quite happy, whereas 1984 would be hellish nightmare.

However I definitely tend to see less Eugenics policies and government mandated sedatives than sweeping new policies restricting liberty and privacy. So for the time I'd say we are definitely heading more in the direction of a 1984 dystopia. :(

[Drew Katsikas]

Drew, that was the most intelligent thing I have heard all week. Still, it's only Tuesday, but you have a good chance of hangin' in there till at least Friday.

Why thank you, but I'm not replying to your compliment to reiterate my greatness, but rather to build off your idea there. A best post of the week/month. And stupidest post of the "insert time frame here". Hopefully Vinth wouldn't destory the competition, though. :lol

[El Blanco]

i'm saying that literacy
or objectivity is not supported by a system that thrives on inattention and a lack of objectivity..

What system are you talking about? Consumerism?

profit on scams and false advertising is more rampant than its ever been.. the traveling salesman is outmoded by todays marketing campaigns

Just an old demon with a new skin. Instead of ringing your doorbell, he interupts your shitty sitcom.

if you spend the bucks on the wrapper it doesnt matter whats inside, most people will buy it if its pretty and cheap

You want me to feel sorry for idiots who pick style over substance? Fools and their money are always parted. Its nothing new.

a system that thrives on that is playing us at our lowest levels ..emotions and complex sexual compulsions

I'd like to think that human beings are able to look a little past that. For fuck sake, we aren't chimps.

the people junked up on the crap we can buy.. then the pharmecuticals.. add a beer and they don't have a chance at objectivity.. they're way too hooked on maintaining a false reality to think no more than sporadically.


They chose it themselves. The companies merely provided a product and service that was sought.

and the corporations count the $$ .. its quite evil

Amoral, there is a difference. They aren't sitting around with horns and pitchforks. They didn't wake up and say,"Hmmm lets enslave people to their desires." They provided products and services that made people's lives a little more comfortable, but the people got hooked and poured in tons of money.

You accuse corporations of being Big Brother, but chastise them for not being mommy?

What happened to politially incorrect?

Low ratings. Conan O'Brien went through Bill Mahr like Tie Domi through a European winger.

Of course, Mahr didn't bring what he advertised.

have you ever heard from producers that were told 'you can't say that on the air'? or heard about the trouble guests on certain shows get into by speaking their mind?

I've heard a lot of those rumors, no actual proof though.

Micheal Moore got record breaking ratings yet was turned down on projects after his series TV Nation.

Maybe the networks went back and checked his "fictionous" documentaries.

And have you ever watched The Awful Truth? The title was half right.

the stories behind what goes on network tv have all manner of fubar though..

Stories, rumors, innuendo..........

[ranxer]

drew.. im not saying there have never been stupid people..

instead of making acusations and trying to tell yall what i think, how bout some questions..

WHERE does a system that feeds on stupidity and emotions and calls it progress end up? if you can't think deeply.. please do not reply.

WHERE(or HOW) will a system that feeds on itself (in a finite world) end up?? (imagine that this feeding frenzy is billions of dollars a day involving billions of people, with millions having piggy back feeding frenzies of liquid cash on top of the actual sales- stockmarkets)

blanco.. are there any 'stories' you believe? you think everybody goes around lying all the time? if ten people tell a similar story about company 'A' you think... hah, thier all just lieing because they got shafted???.. you want a scientific inquisition to prove everything?