YAY!!!! Missouri strikes down juvenile death penalty

[punkgrrrlie10]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/26/juvenile.death.penalty.ap/index.html

one step closer to ending this abominable practice.

[Immortal Goat]

Yeah right. That practice was not abominable in the least. If a person lacks the conscience to keep from killing innocent people, then they lack the thing that essentially separates us from the animals, and therefor is nothing more than a viscious animal, NO MATTER WHAT AGE!!!

If a dog is viscious and attacks a human for no reason, even without fatal injuries to the victim, what do we do to the dog? We kill it. If a human attacks a person and kills them, then they should be treated as a dog and killed as well.

[Ninjavenom]

Kill him. What's the point of keeping him in prison?

[Perndog]

Immortal Goat has pitifully failed at reducing the argument for juvenile capital punishment to two short and poorly worded paragraphs.

No person is a dog. While humans can be and are conditioned in many ways just like animals, we have much deeper capacities as well. We are too complex, and there are too many factors and details to consider for any person to be judged accurately and precisely, let alone humanity as a whole - especially given moral and cultural relativism.

I agree with killing violent criminals, but that's mainly because I don't put a high value on all human life, so I'm comfortable saying that maybe some can be reformed, but why bother? Cull the excess population.

[El Blanco]

one step closer to ending this abominable practice.

Next on the agenda: procreation

[Big Papa Goat]

I agree. Human procreation is the leading cause of death and evil on this planet. Did you know that 100% of infants born die? And if it weren't for Mr. and Mrs. Hitler getting it on back in eighteen ninety whatever, we wouldn't have had WWII! It's an abomindable practice, and should be done away with. First step... castration of all males of breeding age.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Yeah right. That practice was not abominable in the least. If a person lacks the conscience to keep from killing innocent people, then they lack the thing that essentially separates us from the animals, and therefor is nothing more than a viscious animal, NO MATTER WHAT AGE!!!

It shouldn't be the role of the state to play God.

[Big Papa Goat]

What was this about innocent people Immortal Goat? I'm unfamiliar with this concept.

[UtterParadox]

Let's face it. Capital punishment is hardly a deterrent. Yet I support it whole-heartedly. Why?

Because, at heart, we are all apes with less hair. We have the trappings of civilization, but are we there yet? Not sure. So we lust for revenge. And I say, we can have it.

That's why we have capital punishment. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life. "Abominable"? At the time of Christ, it was life for an eye, death of the whole family for a life. This is a step up.

[KILLADEUCE]

People that donot have enough reverence for life to the extent that they would kill another human bieng need to be reduced in number- Systematically if need be...

[Spectre X]

people should only get the death penalty if the evidence in their cases is rock solid and can't be argued with in any case. And even then they shouldn't die.

I disapprove of the death penalty. But, I suggest a lobotomy in favor of a death penalty.

Sure, they'll be practically vegetable-like people, and some people may say it's inhumane, but when they're vegetables, how could they care?

[Immortal Goat]

Ok, so how does this sound Spectre? We give lobotomies to all of the consciousless people out there that killed another human. They stay in a vegetative state for the rest of their natural lives. Meanwhile, people's taxes continue to rise due to the costs of keeping these people alive. The prisons and mental institutions overflow due to a lack of spaces emptying, and new institutions must be built, also at the taxpayers expense.

If you are going to suggest an alternative to the death penalty, make sure you aren't fucking retarded before you do.

[Immortal Goat]

It shouldn't be the role of the state to play God.

nor was it the murderer's role to play God.

[UtterParadox]

people should only get the death penalty if the evidence in their cases is rock solid and can't be argued with in any case. And even then they shouldn't die.

I disapprove of the death penalty. But, I suggest a lobotomy in favor of a death penalty.

Sure, they'll be practically vegetable-like people, and some people may say it's inhumane, but when they're vegetables, how could they care?

So... instead of an almost-painless death by electrocution* or lethal injection, you'd rather sentence them to losing their very selves. THAT is abominable.

*Studies have confirmed that when a prisoner is electrocuted, their synaptic systems are disabled, causing them to feel no pain.

[AChimp]

I think the executions should be broadcast on national TV and done in a more entertaining way. Like Running Man or something. :)

[Immortal Goat]

Now THAT'S the kind of thinking I love hearing about!! Seriously, AChimp, that is one of the best ideas I have heard all day.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Ok, so how does this sound Spectre? We give lobotomies to all of the consciousless people out there that killed another human. They stay in a vegetative state for the rest of their natural lives. Meanwhile, people's taxes continue to rise due to the costs of keeping these people alive. The prisons and mental institutions overflow due to a lack of spaces emptying, and new institutions must be built, also at the taxpayers expense.

If you are going to suggest an alternative to the death penalty, make sure you aren't fucking retarded before you do.

It is more expensive to put someone to death than it is to keep them for life in prison w/o parole. Prisons are overcrowded b/c of DAs that are elected who have to appear tough on crime so they sentence people to long amounts of time for stupid crimes. I saw some city attorney actually seeking jail time JAIL TIME for selling alcohol to a guy already intoxicated. I saw a DA try to seek 4 years for someone walking away from a halfway house when he had 2 wks before he was supposed to be released. Mental institutions are overflowing b/c republicans keep cutting back the funding, so it's not space that was there and is filled up. It was filled up and they decided to get rid of that space.

nor was it the murderer's role to play God.

justified when the state does it then? To put themselves in the same position which the state looks down upon? Saying "hey murder is wrong...so we are going to murder you".

I disapprove of the death penalty. But, I suggest a lobotomy in favor of a death penalty

I expect that was sarcasm. If not...dude.

[Big Papa Goat]

Cannibal Corpse- Put Them To Death


Evil people with evil minds
Slaughter their victims with ripping knives
They should be caught and put to death
Strapped to the chair, they should die there

Blood spewing from their eyes
As you hear their sinful cries
Destroy their evil minds
We should take their fucking lives
They should be caught and punished
For what they have done
Torture them slowly it would be fun
Kill them all off one by one

Let them go - no torture them slow
Fuck you - and your kind
We don't need you, or your lives
Execute by injection
Execution by electricution

Evil people with evil minds
Slaughter their victims with ripping knives
They should be caught and put to death
Strapped to the chair, they should die there

[punkgrrrlie10]

Why do those who are for the death penalty think that if there wasn't one, those people would be let go.

If you think about it, life in prison is a much more fitting punishment. Once they are dead, there is no punishment, they are just dead. I think life in prison is a torturous thing. For those of us who have to visit inmates often we realize how much being in jail sucks. That's why we send people who have broken the law to jail..not b/c it's fun, but for them to be punished. I've been to a few murder trials. The last death penalty sentencing I went to, the convict basically said "Kill me, it's better than having to spend the rest of my life in jail. Go ahead, I'm not sorry for what I did". He was trying hard to be put to death b/c he knew what life would be like if he had to sit in prison for the rest of their life. I think giving them what they want does no justification for the system.

[O71394658]

In addition to that, it's a proven fact that the death penalty is not at all a deterrent to crime. Actually, in the mid-70s, Canada's murder rate was increasing annually. Coincidentally, the year they abolished the death penalty, their murder rate steadily dropped, and has been dropping slowly ever since.

[Spectre X]

yeah, that was stupid of me.

maybe we could just ship them off to a deserted island, like in Escape from Absolom.

a deserted island with SHARKS :)

[Immortal Goat]

nor was it the murderer's role to play God.

justified when the state does it then? To put themselves in the same position which the state looks down upon? Saying "hey murder is wrong...so we are going to murder you".


I am more of the "eye for an eye" mindset. I may have posted this before, but I think that the death penalty should be that whatever the murderers did to their victims should be done to them, so they know the kind of torture they put them through.

[FS]

So, if a murderer cooked his victims alive and ate them from toe to head, this should be done unto him when he gets caught?

[The One and Only...]

I initially thought that if we kept the death penalty, it needed to be made very painful.

I'm thinking sticking broken glass down people's throats kinda stuff.

But when you then put it in the context of innocent people found guilty, it all just becomes very wrong.

While it is cheaper right now to hold a person in prison versus killing them, that has more to do with the method's we use to kill the criminal.

My solution would just be shooting the guy directly behind his head. Painful? Perhaps... but so quick it wouldn't really matter. And I imagine that a single bullet costs a lot less than keeping the guy in prison.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Nothing to do with the 'way' we put them to death. That's actually fairly cheap. It's the judicial system which is put in place to try to make sure that innocent people aren't put away or to death. Most people on death row can't afford attorneys, so they get public defenders. They you have judges that have to hear the case and prosecutors that gotta get in on it trying to prove s/he is in fact guilty. Then you have clerks that manage the court calendar and baliffs to make sure the defendant doesn't attack anyone in court. All of this is public funded. So guess who foots the bill on that one. Putting someone in jail for life does not involve the same amount of appeals in short periods of time and most people don't fight so hard against it. It just takes alot of judicial time to put someone to death and costs enormous amounts of money.

[ziggytrix]

Violent and non-violent offenders should go to different prisons. :(

[punkgrrrlie10]

they are usually at least kept separate, and people on death row are basically in solitary confinement for the most part. They only let them work out w/other violent offenders. And usually, the serious criminal go to state prison while the misdemeanants do a stint in county.

[The One and Only...]

Does this research into the cost of life imprisonment take into account that new prisons might need to be made if we kept prisoners alive?

What about healthcare?

[punkgrrrlie10]

Do you take into account how many people have actually been put to death? That it's not that large a number and we wouldn't need to build entire prisons to keep them? Texas, the biggest DP state has put to death maybe 30 persons under 18 since 1977 when the DP was reinstated w/in the U.S. And perhaps if you wanna talk costs and policy, we should rethink funding and victimless crimes. Laws that put away persons who buy drugs and think about legalizing prostitution..."crimes" which actually hurt no one. If money is such a big deal, why did we expend so much money before this year on sting operations to put away "dangerous" homosexuals? There are alot of problems w/the system and where the money goes. Housing violent offenders and fears of releasing them wouldn't happen if there weren't so many stupid prosecutions where DAs only search for harsh penalties for crap that doesn't really harm anyone b/c they want to get their name in the paper so they can continue to pursue their political careers.

[The One and Only...]

It's not how many people that have been put to death; it's how many are on death row/life imprisonment that could be killled: and while some of the things we put people in prison for are idiotic, I don't see them changing anytime soon.

[CaptainBubba]

My position on this is simple: I put no faith in the government to decide who gets to live because as a rule I distrust their judgement in all matters, and since life is without a doubt the most precious thing in existence, they cannot have that right.

I used to be an ardent death penalty supporter simply for the fact that I endorse the practice of revenge, but realized that this would be hypocritical to my entire political philosophy of restricting the government.

On a purely personal level I have no problem with individuals extracting revenge however. Of course that can't ever be legally permissable but I know it'd be damn hard to stop me from killing someone who raped/killed any of my loved ones.

[Immortal Goat]

On a purely personal level I have no problem with individuals extracting revenge however.

Did you mean EXACTING?

[punkgrrrlie10]

It's not how many people that have been put to death; it's how many are on death row/life imprisonment that could be killled: and while some of the things we put people in prison for are idiotic, I don't see them changing anytime soon.

but those people would be in there anyway. How does that affect having to spend more money on prisons, when they are already there?

[The One and Only...]

They would be permanently there, as well as all the future death row inmates. Instead of new inmates filling up the cells of the old, you find new inmates stacking on top of the old.

[CaptainBubba]

Did you mean EXACTING?

yes. :|

[punkgrrrlie10]

They would be permanently there, as well as all the future death row inmates. Instead of new inmates filling up the cells of the old, you find new inmates stacking on top of the old.

That's happening now as it is...so what's your point? It's not changing w/the death penalty being active as it is now. People die in jail when they are there for life. They die from old age. It's not like they are there and immortal. It still takes from 10-25 years to execute a wo/man. Even then, some sentences get converted to life for whatever reason and then they have wasted a bunch of judicial resources to get to that point.