Another question of misery....

[punkgrrrlie10]

Does intelligence affect happiness. It seems the majority of persons who are intellectual are more unhappy than not. Perhaps just my perception. Someone in the other thread stated the old adage about philosophers being the most miserable people, implying those that seek knowledge and love it are unhappy. So does knowledge equate to unhappiness?

[Big Papa Goat]

Well, it would seem logical that if ignorance is bliss, then knowledge would be misery.

[Immortal Goat]

I disagree with my fellow Goat. I think that intelligence can be ove of the many keys to happiness.

*please forgive the very corny comparison I am about to make*

Each person lives in their own mind, much as one lives in their own house. In a person's house, there are doors that need keys. Keys that only the owner can use. As each person's home is different, and the keys are different, but they both lead to, say, the bathroom, each person's mind is different, and the things that make them happy are, as well, but they all lead to happiness one way or another.

[Anonymous]

no.
First I would say that knowledge is subjective.
I know a man with down's syndrome who suffers from great depression. Most people would not say he was highly 'intelligent'. You could say he has a simple life from a non-personal objective standpoint.
Also, I myself am an idiot and I'm just about as depressed as a person can get. I know people who are far more intelligent than I am who think life is good.
I had a german teacher a long time ago when I was in school who seemed to be the most happy/peaceful person I have ever known in my life. I always thought he must have some great knowledge. He reminded me of Buddha.

[Perndog]

I think intelligence leads to despair in teenagers when they first begin to think in more complex ways and are not emotionally prepared to deal with some of the things they can now understand for the first time. As they grow older, they build emotional resilience, which is why teenage angst doesn't lead to depressed adults.

Among adults, I don't think higher intelligence leads to greater despair. Objectively, I am an intelligent person, and I am also very satisfied with my life. It seems to me that most adults deal with the same problems and have the same feelings about them, regardless of their intelligence. It's just a question of who has the most emotional fortitude or the right attitude.

[AChimp]

I think that there's a correlation between intelligence and unhappiness, but it's not a direct cause-and-effect thing. Like Doopa said, there are retarded folk who are depressed, and there are really smart people who are happy.

I think, however, that intelligent people are smart enough to realize how much they DON'T know, or spend time wondering about all the possibilities that could potentially have allowed for a better position in life.

Stupid people tend to only see what's in front of them. One guy I know smashed up his truck in an accident and was happy about it because now he had an excuse to buy a new one. This guy works in a factory for $8.00/hr putting screws in boards on an assembly line.

[CaptainBubba]

I used to subscribe to the "ignorance is bliss" theory, but consider this: If someone gave you the option to go back to when you were born and make you blissfully ignorant from day one, never gaining even a fraction of the knowledge you now have, but being forever content in your stupor, would you accept?

I realized that even though I recognize that intelligence and knowledge make me unhappy, I wouldn't want the alternative and I show no signs of resisting new thought when it comes to me.

[Sethomas]

I already posted this: "Everyone prefers to be unhappy and sane rather than joyful and mad." - Saint Augustine

I agree with the chimp. Intelligence provides for more reasons to be unhappy, but that doesn't rule out those who aren't intelligent and have faulty chemistry.

[punkgrrrlie10]

But if you are mad and joyful, what else would you know but joy. Everyone will prefer to be sane, but those whom are mad...they don't know it, and they are joyous....

[Anonymous]

But if you are mad and joyful, what else would you know but joy. Everyone will prefer to be sane, but those whom are mad...they don't know it, and they are joyous....

You sound just like the evil cult leader from every horror movie I've ever seen.

[Skulhedface]

I read an old study about a subject almost parallel to this.

They studied the emotions, behaviors, etc., of various child prodigies. Not all prodigies, mind you, but the hyperintelligent kids. Most of them did live to their 40's or 50's, but were emotionally frazzled, burnt out, depressed, and most committed suicide.

In my case personally, I view myself as above average intelligent (when I choose to be) and other than love life related subjects, I'm usually always happy.

So take all that for what it's worth.

[Big McLargehuge]

I am more intellegent then most the people I know, but i am as happy or more happy than most of them. The difference is the way we attain happiness, unintelegent people gain happiness through ignorance whereas intellegent people gain it through enlightenment.

[Skulhedface]

But that still doesn't explain the high suicide rate among child prodigies.

[kellychaos]

Barring psychiatric conditions, I think people are the happiest when they are accepted, admired, love, respected, ect by other people. It seems to be the one common thread among all people, regardless of their intelligence level. I know it's fictional, but consider "Frankenstein's monster" from the Shelley novel. He was highly unintelligent but very unhappy because he was an outcast.

[Sethomas]

Umm, when I read that book it seemed like the monster was the most intelligent character in the story. Certainly the most eloquent.

unintelegent people gain happiness through ignorance whereas intellegent people gain it through enlightenment.

There is no universal measure of enlightenment, so it can't be said to have a universal effect.

[kellychaos]

Umm, when I read that book it seemed like the monster was the most intelligent character in the story. Certainly the most eloquent.


Shelley showed the monster's inner feelings to contrast the monster against the stupid, evilness of society. Even though the creature was simple, by academic standards, he was intelligent by common sense standards and recognized the value mankind placed on looks and intelligence and how wrong it was.

[Helm]

The more you learn the more you understand yourself and your surroundings. As is the case, thr world on a large scale is suffering from numerous causes. When it is made apparent that firstly suffering exists in the modern world in such a broad scale, and secondly and more importantly that there is no clear-cut answer to why this is, and how we can make things better, it is only natural that all this does not sit well with a person's sense of justice.

Furthermore, on a personal level, one understands that much of his ambition up to that point was learnt behaviour, and that from now and onwards he is going to live in uncertainty. Football, cars and bitches no longer will do.

The essential goal of knowledge, whichi s understanding, is then in more than one ways a prime reason many people in persuit of it will never again be completely happy.

[Big McLargehuge]

There is no universal measure of enlightenment, so it can't be said to have a universal effect.

How could there be a universal measure of somthing so personal as enlightenment. Just like there is no universal mesurement to quantify somebodys relationship with God or whatever, you can't quantify your knowledge of yourself and how you relate to the universe.


Also, knowing that the whole of human life is an incredibly insignificant thing (something philosophy and science has taught us again and again) does not preclude happiness, nor does the knowledge that people are suffering everywhere. I find happiness to be realitive to your enviroment for example




A poor, black South African surviving on $200 a year is, on average, as happy as an upper-middle-class American earning $70,000.


source: http://www.discover.com/june_03/breaknumbers.html

[Perndog]

But that still doesn't explain the high suicide rate among child prodigies.

If a child prodigy kills himself and you hear about it, that's probably because he was alienated from all the normal people by his parents wanting to benefit from him instead of letting him have a (relatively) normal life. I would probably kill myself if I went to college when I was 14.

[theapportioner]

Responding to Doopa's comment:

Intelligence in what sense? I think most of us would agree that you have a special talent in the visual arts.

[The_Rorschach]

Elation is momentary in nature and easily eclipsed by calamity. I would personally believe maturity has more to do with it than intellegence. A child, no matter how gifted, can find relative pleasure almost anywhere. My little sister, until the age of about twelve, could entertain herself for hours simply changing her clothes and creating outfits. As one grows older happiness becomes secondary to responsibility, duty and expectations. I myself do not even bother with it any longer, as many of you have heard me say, life is purpose not pleasure.

Is there a point to these musings Grrrl, or is this thread not at all related to the last one? Granted I am a stupid man, but I simply do not see the profit of discussing these things.

Post Script: Nice to seeing you posting again Helm. I thought maybe you'd forgotten about the board :)

[punkgrrrlie10]

I just know certain persons that are never happy w/what they have even though I see them as having such a great life. And I've also noticed that simpler people seem able to enjoy their life more so than some of my law school and med school brethren with only a few exceptions. So I'm musing about what it is that makes us tick and how it is that good things and blessings can go unnoticed by most humans b/c it truly baffles me; I just don't get it. Yes, my philosophy BA is calling to me from the depths.

[Sethomas]

I simply do not see the profit of discussing these things.

Yeah! And what is UP with those ornithologists!? I mean, REALLY, WHO CARES???

[Skulhedface]

But that still doesn't explain the high suicide rate among child prodigies.

If a child prodigy kills himself and you hear about it, that's probably because he was alienated from all the normal people by his parents wanting to benefit from him instead of letting him have a (relatively) normal life. I would probably kill myself if I went to college when I was 14.

That's basically half my point, and I believe half the point of this thread. The original question was "Do you believe intelligence affects happiness?"

If you are isolated for being intelligent, as some are, is that not indirectly intelligence leading to unhappiness?

Sadly, it seems most intelligent folk will dumb themselves down to be accepted, but then again, if it makes them happy, who am I to argue? I don't care what you do to make yourself happy, overall that's not my decision to make, except in my own personal case (hardcore, newsmaking fundamentalist types would do well to learn this lesson).

One time or another, everyone's guilty of dumbing themselves down, unless of course you are already stumpdumb, but that's another subject. I can rightly say, as far as booksmarts are concerned, I am the smartest of all my friends, but alas, some people just can't understand a full fledged discussion on intelligent topics. So you talk about how much beer you can drink or something.

[Dole]

I'm as thick as shit and as happy as larry.

[executioneer]

I used to subscribe to the "ignorance is bliss" theory, but consider this: If someone gave you the option to go back to when you were born and make you blissfully ignorant from day one, never gaining even a fraction of the knowledge you now have, but being forever content in your stupor, would you accept?

GOD yes. :(

-willie

[Anonymous]

Enlightenment .With great knowledge comes a great understanding- an understanding outside of yourself. With that kind of great knowledge comes acceptance which brings contentment and peace. Right.. so I am talking about the difference between knowing vs. understanding, and intellectual skills vs. wisdom. The world is full of ‘smart’ people, but I think there are few who have wisdom. I personally consider those with wisdom the most intelligent.
One of the reasons I consider myself an idiot is because I truly have no peace. I have no peace partially because I can not gain perspective. I don't consider myself an idiot because I am not good at math or I don't know how to fix a car. Yes I may have a visual talent, but everyone has some kind of talent, whether its criminal, cooking, farming, raising kids, being a salesman or being a physicist. Talent is a form of intelligence, but I wouldn't call it a particularly high intelligence since everyone possesses it. (someone call me a Commie)
There are way too many people who have some 'special' talent who are miserable people. So there is nothing special about that because it’s so common Also, people who think they are smarter or better than all/or most people lack perspective and are full of contempt and lack appreciation, therefore they are miserable.
I would say that prodigy's are perfectionists by nature. Perfectionists will always be miserable because they cannot accept things. So they will never have peace. They are also miserable because even though they have one special talent or form of intelligence they often severely lack in others as a result. And therefore certain aspects of life are more difficult for them. There is certainly a benefit to being a well-rounded person.

[kellychaos]

"True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing. And in knowing that you know nothing, that makes you the smartest of all. "

- Socrates

I wholeheartedly agree that intellectual modesty is a good thing ... not only in realizing in wonder the impressive traits, qualities, skills, ect of others but telling them so, becoming interested, asking them about it, ect. Not only might you learn something but you make them feel better about themselves and you make yourself feel better in the fellowship.

[kahljorn]

Maybe you guys just want an excuse to feel intelligent. Are you calling every Goth intelligent? Oh god no.
What about those who subscribe to an "Emotional State" just so they can fit.
Some and all are two completely different things, they do not equate eachother just because some intelligent people happen to be depressed(All bills are johns, some johns are marys. Are all bills Marys?). Maybe intelligence is just a result of abnormalities, a "Mutation" so to speak. As going through life with a different outlook than the norm can form alternate perceptions, giving you a vaster view of the world when you can also see the normal view of the world.
An intelligent person just realizes how much of a moron they really are, so they get sad. Stupid people just can't figure it out, but get sad about other things. Like the head falling off of barbie. Or when you sister flushes your fishies down the toilet after putting lotion on them :(

[punkgrrrlie10]

I always thought true genuises have been unhappy b/c they have no one to share it with. No one is on their level and they feel alienated which I think affects the artistic genius more so than someone mathematically inclined. Apart of artistic genius is being creative which means you will be different from other artistic genius whereas math is a matter of level. It's also why I think there are so many problems in the music industry and other artistic geniuses b/c they are alone.

In other words, all the really prodigistic persons have the "no one gets it" mentality and are thus alienated. You can only talk about how much beer you drank the night before for a short time before you get bored.

[kahljorn]

That's why you get drunk again, goto a party, get into a fight. Break into someone's car, jack their stereo, pawn it off, buy some weed, get high, talk philosophy, theology, mythology, science, crazy bullshit and improv poetry on the spot, listen to music, write music, goto friends house, jam while drinking a gallon of vodka and having no fucking clue what the fuck you're gonna sing or what the fuck the people are going to play.. but still manage to flow accordingly.

[kellychaos]

No one is on their level and they feel alienated which I think affects the artistic genius more so than someone mathematically inclined. Apart of artistic genius is being creative which means you will be different from other artistic genius whereas math is a matter of level.

Don't you think high-level mathematics, engineering, scientists, ect involves a high level of original, creative thought and composition? Take a look at where a lot of the most of today's modern philosophers are sprouting from.

In fact, here's a good website to look at:

LINK (http://www.edge.org/)

[Perndog]

In other words, all the really prodigistic persons have the "no one gets it" mentality and are thus alienated.

Alienation does not equal unhappiness. Some people like being alienated. Like these people:

The Alien Elite (http://www.churchofsatan.com)

[The One and Only...]

How very true. It all depends on whether or not you are an extrovert or an introvert.

I tend to be an introvert, which is why I don't mind never going to parties, seeing friends, etc.

[kahljorn]

NOBODY UNDERSTANDS ME, IM SO SAD AND LONELY.

*cries softly to electric wizard*