Fucking Mormons.

[Jeanette X]

*ding dong*
*Jeanette answers the door*
Jeanette: Yeah?
Missionary: Hi. We're from the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints.
Jeanette: We're not interested.
Missionary: Have you heard of the Book of Mormon?
Jeanette: Yes. I own a copy, I have read it, I am not interested.
Missionary: Have you prayed on it?
Jeanette: *disgusted look* Do I come to your door and start bothering you?
Missionary: We love you...
Jeanette: *slams door in missionary's face*

[Big McLargehuge]

You should have knocked them out and tied them up in your basement.

[Spectre X]

you should have started swearing like a sailor.

[Skulhedface]

Next time that happens, say something along the lines of "You may be right! Quick, Roy, let's release the half-dead children with pentagrams carved into their chests and the shaven goats! We don't need them anymore! We'll just sacrifice LAMBS for JESUS!"

[Helm]

I don't remember exactly which christian sect a person that once came knocking represented, but he told me that before he let me in on his information, I was ignorant and I wouldn't suffer if I died as one, but now that he had told me, if I didn't become a born again whatever like him, my soul would be doomed in hell forever.

Thanks :(

[AChimp]

If you want to make them go away and never come back, Jeanette, just answer the door while topless next time. :yum

EDIT: For added effect, hold an open beer bottle. It can be empty if you want; they won't stick around long enough to notice anyways.

[Immortal Goat]

Take pictures to prove it and put them up on the forums.

[Blue]

My grandfather was a part of them once when he was younger. He died 7 years ago and they still come around asking for him. Stupid bicycle riding fucks. They just built an ugly temple too. Most of them are kiwi's too on "mission". I wish they would stay in NZ. >:

[Big McLargehuge]

My home town is 60% Mormon. They suck.

[soundtest]

My friend's mom was a devout, hardcore Jehovah's witness (I think? one of those wacky Christian-like groups that). While she never went around annoying people and never tried to convert me, she was pretty fucking hardcore in her beliefs. One day I came over to visit my friend and saw a couple of clean cut young men sitting at her kitchen table, looking a little anxious to leave while she was spittin out quotes and prophecies like they were going out of style! My friend told me after that they were Mormons who came to the door - she gladly invited them inside, offered them refreshments... but then she brought out her bible and started lecturing them on the error of their ways and how they were lost sheep. He said she always did this.

[Helm]

You're an atheist, right? (I assume because you're a cool guy :dunce) How did your mom take that, then?

[soundtest]

(I assume because you're a cool guy :dunce)

Let me tell you about another cool guy... a guy who also had long hair and some wild and crazy ideas... :lol

How did your mom take that, then?

Actually that was my friend's mom who was the Jehova's witness. My mom is Catholic I guess, but not devout by any means. She goes to church once a year on xmas eve and doesn't eat meat on good friday.

Me? Well I was atheist/agnostic depending on my mood, but now my eyes have been opened to the wonderful world of Scientology (http://www.xenu.net)! Let me tell you all about it... ;)

[kahljorn]

One time I was sleeping at a friends house, or getting faded, or some combination of the two, and the doorbell rang, my friend answered.. apparantly it was some mormons or some shit like that. My friend was drunk as fuck, so he decided to have a philisophical conversation with them. I don't know what all was said, but he asked them if they thought his Dog had a soul, and they said no. So he got pissed and asked them if they wanted to see his dog. They got scared, they left.
Now, my friend has a gigantic Chocolate dobermen, and he decided he should get him out and go show him to the Zealots. THey got terrified and threatened to call the cops and shit, hoped in their car and left.

[AChimp]

There's a guy who hangs out one of the malls downtown and walks around the food court at lunch asking teens if they've heard the good news about Jesus.

He told me once that I was making a big mistake when I told him that I didn't care if God existed or not ("... what if you died right now?") and then wanted me to pray with him right there.

Funny thing, though, is that he keeps introducing himself with a different name, as if I'd forget his pompous face.

I think the next time someone asks me what I'd say to God if I were to meet him "right now", I'm gonna say "Hail Satan!"

[Perndog]

Just remember that jackass sketch with the guy in the devil costume on the sidewalk. ;)

EDIT: This was my 666th post, and I didn't even notice. Wow. http://www.personalsatan.com/lttd/images/graemlins/devil.gif

[Spectre X]

"Keep God out of California!" :lol

[VinceZeb]

I do hope those of you who are confortable in your view of a non-God situation that when you die you are prepared for the conquences.

[Spectre X]

I do hope that you are prepared to undergo the same fate as us then, you being blatantly arrogant and stupid an' all.

[AChimp]

:lol

[Dole]

"I do hope those of you who are confortable in your view of a non-God situation that when you die you are prepared for the conquences."

-face the consequences of eternal nothingness? I think I can handle that. I dont think I will be that bothered as I slowly decompose.

[Dole]

In fact, I'm even less scared of the 'conquences'.

[VinceZeb]

And if you are wrong; if there is a Supreme Being that judges you based on a set base of criteria and you fail the main one which is a belief in Its existance?

[mburbank]

I'm pretty sure God doesn't accept "Hedging your bets" as a sincere basis for faith.

I'm also pretty sure "fear of punishment" isnt acceptable as as a basis for faith. Any petty tyrant can achioeve that, and I think God aspires to a bit more.

The fact that your conception of God would use the same methods to achieve obedience that behaviorist psychologists use on rats comes as no surprise to me.

[The_Rorschach]

"I'm pretty sure God doesn't accept "Hedging your bets" as a sincere basis for faith."

Didn't work for Cain when he was making his sacrifice before God ;)

[Zhukov]

And if you are wrong; if there is a Supreme Being that judges you based on a set base of criteria and you fail the main one which is a belief in Its existance?



It should say "And when you are wrong..." becasue He does exsist.


So what if I dont believe, God might forgive me. When I start floating away from my body, or when I am about to be judged, I'll just start believing. After all, if I start work in the fields half an hour after someone else starts work in the fields; at the end of the day we should both get in to heaven at the same time.

[Jeanette X]

Apparently Vince thinks people should believe in God "just in case." :blah

[VinceZeb]

No, condescending little witch, I don't think people should believe in God "just in case". God isn't a safety net or a mulligan you can use whenever shit happens. People who are comfortable in the fact that they believe there is no god or judge after you die should examine their life and see if they truly believe that. If they do, they should be able to accept the conquences for such a belief if in fact they are wrong. If my belief is incorrect and there is no God or Higher Power, then I am not punished for it; I just cease to be. If they are wrong... well, hope they like damnation.

[mburbank]

That sounds to me like the basis of your faith lies in hedging your bets. And, dim as you are, you think you've figured out a clever little win/win scenario.

How about this? Are you, in your idea of what it means to be a good Christian, prepared to face the 'conquences' (You've used that made up word several times now, I can only assume you think that's what the word actully is) if you're wrong? If the Mulsims are right, and you are wrong... well, hope you like damnation. Talk about condecending.

Moreover, many Christians believe the morality of your behavior in thought and deed is equally, if not more important than your simplistic statement that you 'believe' in Jesus. If they're right... well, hope you like damnation.

Me? I'm agnostic and have no preconception of what the afterlife might hold or if there is one. I try as best I can to treat others as I'd like to be treated, to help those less fortunate than I am, and to address mean spirited punks with the only proper response, laughter. If the all mighty creator of the universe is so perverse as to damn a man for all eternity for that, than Heaven is no place for decent people anyway.

[Spectre X]

Vince, if we would meet God and realize he actually exists, he would propably forgive us, because being God, he KNOWS, that the Bible is hard to believe, because it's just a book, and that there is NO physical evidence that he really does exist. Being the all-loving God he's supposed to be, he would KNOW and UNDERSTAND this. m'kay?

[VinceZeb]

It doesnt sound like you are too confident in that belief, Spectre. You are putting trust in a belief system that really has no merit on the human belief that God will "forgive" you for not believing when in almost every single religion, God frowns upon non-belief in His existance. And I'm not even refering to the Bible in this instance. The Ten Commandments states that God is the one True God, and that is plain and simple. Worship of anything else that takes away from His place in existance is not allowed, PERIOD. Three of the 5 major religions in the world follow that rule. God makes it known in texts that He is the One and Only, and belief in Him is mandatory.

I know it is real simplistic, but hey, most things that are far-reaching are.

[Spectre X]

see? This is why people call you an idiot.

It's written in texts. You know? Paper sheets with words on them? Words that could just as easily be written by normal humans pulling shit from their asses? Exactly. Religion was made because people needed at least some rudimentary explanation as to how the world worked, and also, lateron the rulers needed to keep the populace in line, thusly using religion as a tool of controll, by making them believe that they would go to hell etc. if they didn't live their lives like THEY told them to.

Jesus wasn't a bad guy, he just didn't know any better.

Now, Buddhism, there's a religion. In Buddhism, you can do basically anything as you pursue enlightenment. In Buddhism, there is no such thing as 'hell', just another life untill you find enlightenment. And if you don't, well, make the best of it I say.

If God is all-loving and knowing and omnipresent and omnipotent, he KNOWS that he can't hold us not believing in him against us, because he KNOWS that there is no physical evidence of him existing in our world, apart from some shoddy texts which could have easily been written by humans and that have no true evidence of even having anything to DO with him.

[VinceZeb]

Where is your proof that religion was made for people to understand how the world works? Isn't that found in texts as well? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Buddhism isn't really a religion as it is a philosophy. Of all the religions that are around, it is the mainstream one I usually brush aside. Call me an elitist, but there are WAY too many loopholes and flaws in basic design that get me for taking it any more than that it is what the eastern world has grown up with so it doesn't really know any better because it fits with all the doom and gloom no material possession lifestyles they live.

[Spectre X]

Vince, if you would switch your brain on and think for a second, what other explanation could there be that early relegions were for people to understand how the world worked? Imagine a caveman, and suddenly, lightning strikes in a tree, causing it to fall over and catch fire. He gets closer, puts his hand in the fire, and realizes that it hurts. He gets a hold of a branch that has not been totally set aflame, and takes it home, where he proceeds to warm his family with it.

Now, don't you think that if you were a caveman (not that hard for you to imagine, just go about your everyday bussiness) and if suddenly a bright flash of light would come down from the sky and turn a previous tree into something that could help your family survive the cold night, wouldn't that seem ike some unearthly occurance?

[pjalne]

Where is your proof that religion was made for people to understand how the world works? Isn't that found in texts as well? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Buddhism isn't really a religion as it is a philosophy. Of all the religions that are around, it is the mainstream one I usually brush aside. Call me an elitist, but there are WAY too many loopholes and flaws in basic design that get me for taking it any more than that it is what the eastern world has grown up with so it doesn't really know any better because it fits with all the doom and gloom no material possession lifestyles they live.

You're shitting on Buddhim for its loopholes and design flaws? The Bible is nothing but loopholes and design flaws.

[VinceZeb]

Cavemen weren't worrying about where the hell fire came from, they were worrying about day to day survival. That is, however, if you believe in what we consider "caveme". Besides, with all the different cavemen around, how would they organize basic belief structures that were complex throughout, like the Torah? It seems pretty far-fetched that a couple of tribes got together and made up all this stuff for the sake of doing so.

And pj, your first question will be ignored becuase if you are too stupid to read, then you are too stupid to be acknowledged.

Your second statement, however, is easily settled. Look at the "proof" of all the various religions. Buddhism doesn't have a lot of proof that is based in history. Judaism/Christianity/Islam has more proof based on history. If someone duplicated the above religions today, there would be more witnesses to what happened instead of the few that were around now. But, if someone were to duplicated Buddhism, they would be laughted at and treated the same as someone who believed in Scientology.

Buddhism is like Scientology but with a major head start in history.

[mburbank]

Where is your proof that there is loopholes in the three major world religions? Isn't that also in texts?

Christinanity isn't so much a religion as it is a doctrinarian. Of all the religions that are around, and like I just said it is not a religion, but of all the religions that are around if you call it one which it isn't, it is the mainstream one (though, remember, it isn't one) I usually brush aside. Call me an elitist, but there are WAY too many loopholes and flaws in basic design that get me for taking it any more than that it is what the Western world has grown up with so it doesn't really know any better because it fits with all the I'm right about everything all the time so you go to hell for all eternity while i play a harp and wear a white robe i love moola xenophobic lifestyles we live.

And plus which, howcome no one is understnd me or pretending that they don't when I speak clear engish tht anyone with a IQ points over 23 could understand the truthisms of which?


Dumbass.

[pjalne]

And pj, your first question will be ignored becuase if you are too stupid to read, then you are too stupid to be acknowledged.

Vince, reading your posts can very seldom actually be called 'reading'. 'Interpreting the abstract' would be a more fitting description.

Your second statement, however, is easily settled. Look at the "proof" of all the various religions. Buddhism doesn't have a lot of proof that is based in history. Judaism/Christianity/Islam has more proof based on history. If someone duplicated the above religions today, there would be more witnesses to what happened instead of the few that were around now. But, if someone were to duplicated Buddhism, they would be laughted at and treated the same as someone who believed in Scientology.

What you're talking about here is not 'loopholes and design flaws'. What you're talking about is historical proof. A design flaw would be a god who's all powerful and infallible and still manages to create a race that was so different from what he had planned that he had to kill them all. Then he afterwards admitted he kinda overreacted. Then, five thousand years later, he decides that he messed the basic rules up and changes them mid-game by sending Jesus to Earth.

[mburbank]

Vinth sounds pretty uncomfortable in his belief. What else would explain this obsession with 'proof', when faith is perfectly valid without any proof at all? I can only see his scrabbling around for proof as an indication he's uneasy in his faith.

That being said, GET WITH THE PROGAM, PJALNE! WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CAVEMENS NOW!

Or, what people think of as being 'caveme'.

[Spectre X]

Vince, you, being as intelligent as you claim to be, should know that even a few millennia before Christ, after agriculture was invented, and when life wasn't as hard when cavemen roamed the earth (oh, and you WOULD be fucking surprised if you were a caveman and the sky set a tree on fire, resulting in a very rudimentary religion etc. it's not that hard to imagine really) and people were more intelligent, things of nature STILL surprised people, and making them want answers, which they invented when someone finally said "Oy! I think this all happens 'cause some guy on a throne up there makes it happen!" after which they told members of other tribes which they met, and who thought "Hey, that's actually a very reasonable explanation." and went and told his tribe members etc. and so forth resulting in an organised religion.

Also, what you are arguing is, is that people who worshop religions that are millennia older than Christianity and the Islam, and Judeaism are also going to hell for worshipping a religion that was there before Christianity and all those other religions, just because they refuse to believe in a ratther poorly put together big fat book about some guy in the air doing all kinds of stuff.

So, in effect, the ONLY religion that could possibly be true, would have to be the FIRST religion ever, because the people who invented it may have seen God him/her/itself or something to that effect. And NOT Christianity, simply because it's a lot older, and thusly more trustworthy.

Hell Vince, even in Roman times etc. in places where there weren't any organized religions, but still fairly intelligent people, were making up new religions and stuff because they needed something to explain all the bad and good things that happened to them. Because it's just difficult to believe that something is more your fault than someone else's.

Also, what baout tribes in Africa, who have NEVER, EVER even heard about Jesus Christ and Jehova and Allah and stuff. Do they go to hell just because noone ever introduced them to their religion?

[pjalne]

Vinth sounds pretty uncomfortable in his belief. What else would explain this obsession with 'proof', when faith is perfectly valid without any proof at all? I can only see his scrabbling around for proof as an indication he's uneasy in his faith.


I was going to point that out, but I'm pretty sure that Vince only skims paragraphs longer that four lines. I had to cut something, so :(

Oh, and caveme? If I was a caveman and a bolt of lightning put a tree on fire I would think it was some god or something similar.

Besides, with all the different cavemen around, how would they organize basic belief structures that were complex throughout, like the Torah? It seems pretty far-fetched that a couple of tribes got together and made up all this stuff for the sake of doing so.

Are we sure Vince isn't a character?

Three or four cavemen didn't sit down and make a religion up. Religions evolved over hundreds or thousands of years. For someone who kind of studied religion, you sure don't have much of a grasp around the basic principles.

EDIT: Too slow, Spectre got to the bone before me.

[Spectre X]

Oh, and caveme? If I was a caveman and a bolt of lightning put a tree on fire I would think it was some god or something similar.

THANK YOU! :)

[Jeanette X]

No, condescending little witch...
Little witch? I like that. :)
I don't think people should believe in God "just in case". God isn't a safety net or a mulligan you can use whenever shit happens.
I meant "just in case" he exists and damns one for not believing, not "just in case" one needs his help.

[Perndog]

Also, what baout tribes in Africa, who have NEVER, EVER even heard about Jesus Christ and Jehova and Allah and stuff. Do they go to hell just because noone ever introduced them to their religion?

From what I've heard heathens who have not been exposed to the word of God but lead otherwise moral lives go to Limbo, the very outskirts of Hell, where they are just bored and sad for all eternity instead of tormented.

Anyway, back to belief for the sake of covering your ass after you die...the problem is that Christianity preaches so much temperance, abstinence, and spiritual over worldly growth, that if you take it to heart, you miss out on a lot of opportunities to enjoy real life, and then, if you die and discover that there is no afterlife, you've wasted your entire existence waiting for a fairy tale.

I put my bet on the earthly side. At least I know plenty of interesting people who will be in Hell with me if I'm wrong. http://www.personalsatan.com/lttd/images/graemlins/devil.gif

I want to get that made an official emoticon...heheh

[Pub Lover]

Most of them are kiwi's too on "mission". I wish they would stay in NZ. >:
http://www.geocities.com/braindeadjimmy/fanpic/fanpic-mormons.txt

[AChimp]

Hey, does anyone remember that Farside comic with Colonel Sanders standing at the Pearly Gates and there's a giant chicken statue?

I think that comic would fit perfectly in this thread. :)

[mburbank]

WHAT THAT GOT DO WIF CAVEMANS, CHIMP?
















oh, wait. I get it.

[Big McLargehuge]

Can we go back to making fun of Mormons and suggesting that Jeanette get naked and take pictures of herself scaring the mormons?

[Immortal Goat]

God isn't a safety net or a mulligan you can use whenever shit happens. People who are comfortable in the fact that they believe there is no god or judge after you die should examine their life and see if they truly believe that. If they do, they should be able to accept the conquences for such a belief if in fact they are wrong. If my belief is incorrect and there is no God or Higher Power, then I am not punished for it; I just cease to be. If they are wrong... well, hope they like damnation.

Vinth, if God is truly the forgiving being that it is claimed to be, then answer me this. Say there is a man who does everything right in life. He gives to charity, helps out at homeless shelters, cares for his family, and is generally the nicest person anyone can find. However, he also happens to be an agnostic. Is he damned to an eternity in hell because of one tiny "design flaw"?

P.S. Vinth, that sound you hear that is much like a train collision is your belief system crashing to a halt.

[Immortal Goat]

http://www.vegetus.org/vegtoon/kfc.jpg

Ask and you shall recieve, so sayeth the Immortal Goat!

[Vibecrewangel]

Buddhism doesn't have a lot of proof that is based in history.

Um.....really? Do share your plethora of "proof" on this subject.

Specter....I've been laughing at your posts....almost word for word what I have said over and over. :)

I've always felt that faith is PERSONAL and that anyone who is secure in their faith doesn't need to get all riled up over it. Those that do are just affraid that they are wrong. Then they turn to trying to make other think like them. CONVERT DAMN YOU CONVERT As if more believers will make the belief "right".

[kahljorn]

Whoever said Buddhism doesnt have proof in history is obviously slightly retarded. He was a prince. Princes are important. Princes are in History. There are historical thingimajigs to prove he existed. Thingimajigs. There are also, I believe, stored in tibet shit that he wrote in, or spit in, or threw manure in, I'm not sure, but it wouldn't perprise me.

Buddha's real name was not buddha, go read your bookikins. Just like Jesus Christ's real name wasn't the Christ, they are titles. Sort of like Sir, or King, or FuckingjackassrabbitcapitolTminusafuckingZ

[Jeanette X]

Buddhism doesn't have a lot of proof that is based in history.

What?! By Zeus, Indra, and Baal, can you be any more stupid?

[Perndog]

Ok, everyone get out of flame mode and try to think for a second. You grab one sentence out of context and start to tear apart an argument that wasn't even made. Vince didn't say there's no proof that Buddhism existed in history, he told everyone he knew how it started. He was talking about how nothing has ever happened to prove that the Buddhists are correct in their philosophy, and I fully agree. It's just a bunch of mystical transcendental nonsense that aims to detach adherents from real life and waste all of their earthly potential through self-denial and a search for some abstract notion of enlightenment that never seemed to really benefit anyone anyway. Did you ever have a little bird or a squirrel come to you and make you wise? Are you enlightened, and if you are, were the years and years of utterly bland existence worth it?

[Immortal Goat]

Perndog, i respect your opinions, but I must say that not all people who follow Buudhist thought are people who go through self-denial. And that thing that you said about transcendentalism being crap, I take offense to that slightly. Transcendentalism is not about giving everything up, it is about thinking for yourself, which is something that Vinth has failed to learn to do. I am not in flame mode, I am stating a fact. He is a drone, created by a society that thrives on conservatism and conformity.

[Vibecrewangel]

Pern -

The phioso[hy does have "proof" in science in history and in many religions. Enlightenment is only one part of the philosophy.

[VinceZeb]

Goat, you have about as much chance to crack my beliefs as you do in cracking a safe at Fort Knox. I don't make the rules, God did. If God thinks that a belief and acknowledgement of His supreme power and existance is a requirement for entering a spirtitual paradise, are you going to tell him that he is too harsh?

You can live the good new-age magic crystal life all you want and be the best guy on the planet. If you don't believe in God and reject Him, you go to Hell. It is pretty much that simple. And if you don't like the rules, argue with the Supreme Being, not with me.

[Immortal Goat]

Those rules about not believing in God did NOT come from God, they came from the corrupt bishops of the middle ages who were trying to scare people into believing them and paying them money.

[Jeanette X]

He was talking about how nothing has ever happened to prove that the Buddhists are correct in their philosophy, and I fully agree.
Well shit, same goes for all the religions! Its fucking redudant!

It's just a bunch of mystical transcendental nonsense that aims to detach adherents from real life and waste all of their earthly potential through self-denial and a search for some abstract notion of enlightenment that never seemed to really benefit anyone anyway. Did you ever have a little bird or a squirrel come to you and make you wise? Are you enlightened, and if you are, were the years and years of utterly bland existence worth it?

You are as ignorant about Buddhism as Proto's grandma was about Islam. That is not what Buddhism is about, no more than the lifestyle of an austere Catholic monk is an example of the typical Christian.

[Perndog]

Goat: every religion or philosophical school is full of adherents that don't follow it accurately. But whether or not people other than monks do this in practice, Buddhist doctrine is about detachment, which means exactly that: you detach yourself from physical desires and feelings, because every bit of pleasure must be followed by suffering, and suffering is to be avoided. The "Buddhists" who don't practice this are either just calling themselves Buddhists because they think it's cool (I've seen former Lutherans who became "Buddhists" and lived their lives exactly the same way and just changed their church services a little bit) or they are picking and choosing which of the teachings they want to follow.

You don't need to transcend anything to think for yourself; I think countless atheists are enough evidence of that.

And Vibecrewangel, it's awfully weak to say "yes, it does have proof" and then not to offer any. I'm waiting.

[Jeanette X]

That is like saying that Christians never have any fun either because the Bible tells them to "be not of the world."

[Perndog]

If they were good Christians, that's exactly what they'd do. Centuries of Benedictines couldn't be wrong, could they? I personally follow to the letter every word in my Bible. If a religion is worth following, it's worth following all the way.

[Jeanette X]

So you hate your father and mother? You forsook them? :eek

[Perndog]

*ahem*...I don't read the same bible you do....

[Vibecrewangel]

Pern - There are several threads about Buddhism and physics, about the history of Buddhism about Buddhism as a supplement to other religions....I'm not going to rehash my last year of posts

Hell, Vince may not agree with me, but even he will vouch for the fact that I have offered up many links and many sources on this subject.

[Vibecrewangel]

Pern-

Damn search function on the board is down.....I was looking for a few of my old links for you.

[Perndog]

Many thanks; I just started watching the Philosophy forum a couple of weeks ago, so I don't know about all the past discussions. And I think searching is gone indefinitely. Any other sources?

[AChimp]

I personally follow to the letter every word in my Bible.

*ahem!*

Leviticus

13:45 “As for the diseased person who has the infection, his garments must be torn, the hair of his head must be unbound, he must cover his mustache, and he must call out ‘Unclean! Unclean!’

13:46 The whole time he has the infection he will be continually unclean. He must live in isolation, and his place of residence must be outside the camp.

:blah

[Supafly345]

Those rules about not believing in God did NOT come from God, they came from the corrupt bishops of the middle ages who were trying to scare people into believing them and paying them money.I am kind of a christian myself (trying to decide on my beliefs and studying up on it still so I am not committing) and I can vouch for that. It wasn't neccessarily corrupt the bishops as it was the corrupt church. They were the law, and didn't want to lose that power.
I am not saying that you will go to the Kingdom of God if you do not have faith in him, but you won't be punished with an eternal damnation in a flaming pit. That was pieced together by Roman Catholics from talk about hell and talk about the lake of fire- which are two different things.
Hell is apperently where Satan is now. He is not on fire in horrible pain... yet. Hell is simply the absence of God (like how God is "everywhere" on earth? Well, he isn't in Hell). I guess life without God is supposed to be pretty shitty, so Hell isn't exactly like normal life.

NOTE: This is not all neccessarily true. This is just what I have come up with through my own studies. I may not be an all wise pastor who is an expert, but at least I didn't just believe what one told me their take on it was.

[Perndog]

I personally follow to the letter every word in my Bible.

*ahem!*

Leviticus

13:45 “As for the diseased person who has the infection, his garments must be torn, the hair of his head must be unbound, he must cover his mustache, and he must call out ‘Unclean! Unclean!’

13:46 The whole time he has the infection he will be continually unclean. He must live in isolation, and his place of residence must be outside the camp.

:blah

*ahem*...I don't read the same bible you do....

Pay attention, Chimp. >:

[AChimp]

Oh, you read one of the Bibles that cut out all the old-fashioned stuff. I get it. ;)

[Vibecrewangel]

Pern.....if I remember correctly when you first showed up I mentioned it was nice to see someone who followed the original teachings as oppsed to the screwed up version that most people associate wth the church.


The information on buddhism/physics is growing by leaps and bounds. Just google the two terms and you will come up with quite a few. Even the matrix movies are heavy into buddhist philosophy insofar as the question of existance is concerned.

Historical proof can be found throughout eastern history. Much the same as proof of events in Native American stories would be proved through the history of North America. Much of the problem with modern culture is that we forget that the further back we go the less certain historical events crossed different cultures. A flood in one area would never have been recorded in another.

I for one came to Buddhism in...well really.....a sort of appropriate way.....
I grew up with a mother who was deeply devout. In ever religion she came across.....Catholic, Jehova's witness, Satanist, Scientologist.....I don't want to go on. As I got older I looked into Shamanism, Witchcraft, Wicca (yes they are different) I was even an atheist for a bit. In the end I was left with a very personal mush of beliefs that encompassed everything that made sense from all the religions and traditions I had studied. It wasn't until recently....many years later....that I learned about Buddhism. At first I was wierded out that my view was almost idential to the Buddhist view. But eventually I came to understand that once I had allowed myself to (in a very buddhist way) let go of the negative aspects of all those other teachings I was left with the truth. And the truth is universal. When Buddhist talk of letting go to achive enlightenment it is meant to be on that level.

[Perndog]

I'm a little too tired to really get sarcasm right now, so I'm just assuming that was a joke because I don't think you're dumb enough not to understand by now. That's a compliment.

EDIT: This was directed at Chimp, by the way.

[kahljorn]

"Letting go" is about not giving a fuck anymore because you're too damned stupid to know the truth and when mommy smacked your mouth too hard it made you hate all women so your opinion is biased.
Also heighths scare you, and you can't go flying through the spiritual world if you're scared of heighths. It's a rule and shit, I have the official guidelines of interdimensional travel.

[VinceZeb]

My comments on Buddhism are pretty much based on a set of rules I have for all religions.

Let's take the the 5 most popular religions out there: If Judaism, on a historic level, was proven to be 100% correct, you couldn't argue with it. If there was a flood, the plagues, etc., then it would be true. You could argue the spiritual aspect all you want, but "realisticly" it could still happen.

Christanity could happen up until the crucifiction of Christ. When Christ was ressurected and those people saw him, then Christanity is proven correct. Historically and realistically, it would be the easiest to prove correct.

Islam could have a Mohammaed running around, but the angel part would be hard to prove based on "science".

Now, Hinduism? You couldn't prove that with science if you spent the rest of your days on it. There is no way in hell you could prove that someone was reincarnated into a cow or a junebug.

Take Buddhism now: If some guy went out right now who was a prep, saw a poor person and got shocked, climbed a tree, got "enlightened", saw some bums again and started preaching about how they shouldn't worry about being poor and just wait to enter the next life... you all would laugh your ass off at this clown right now. What makes it different because someone did it thousands of years ago? You can't prove enlightenment. You can't prove with any scientific or historical proof that he became enlightened.

You could prove the Jews recieved commandments and they had an ark and eyewitnesses could prove God spoke to them. If Christ rises from the dead, you ain't hatin on Jesus no more. You can't do that with Buddhism. It just cant happen.

[mburbank]

Why are you so hung up on 'proof', for your own, or any religion? Is your faith that weak?

Why are you so hung up on literal truth? Why do you think Jesus taught in parables? Do you know what parable is? Is your faith that shallow?

Why would you think the word of an eyewitness cconstitutes proof? Have you no understanding of science?

Why would you accept the biblical account of the resurection as fact? I've read that the last son of Krypton rose from the dead. It was reported by his own wife. Have you never heard of fiction?

Why would you laugh at someone who behaved as the Bhuda behaved? Have you no understanding of compassion?

Why do you care so little for the least of your bretheren? Do you not know that what you do unto them you do unto Him?

Why did you never learn to write? Was your schooling that poor? Have you no pride?

Why do you think anyone understands the points you attempt to make when your thoughts are so scattered, so poorly communicated? Do you understand them yourself? Why then can't you communicate them more clearly?

Why are you such a nasty little self important sack of crap? Is your faith so weak and shallow that your own scripture teaches you nothing of obedience than blind belief in a saviors existance and nothing more?

Sidartha Gautama's faith was not so weak or so shallow, and his behavior showed more christian charity than you are capable of imagining.

[Perndog]

He means that if any of these things happened again, we would believe them, while the same is not true for Buddhism. If God flooded the earth tomorrow and picked another Noah, or if some dude who was executed rose from the dead, people would notice and start believing, while if some guy went up a tree for a while and then started telling people he was enlightened and they should listen to him, they'd think he was full of shit.

The problem being, an awful lot of people saw Jesus die and a lot probably saw his empty tomb (though why they would put an insignificant rabble-rouser in a tomb of his own is beyond me), but no one was converted immediately, and the Egyptians weren't Jewish, even though they would have been around shortly after the flood...

Pern.....if I remember correctly when you first showed up I mentioned it was nice to see someone who followed the original teachings as oppsed to the screwed up version that most people associate wth the church.

I'm confused by this..do you think I'm a Christian?

[kellychaos]

You can live the good new-age magic crystal life all you want and be the best guy on the planet.


I think that "being the best guy on the planet" ( i.e. having compassion, being charitable, ect.) is what an all-knowing God (whatever form he takes) wants for all mankind no matter how they get there.


If you don't believe in God and reject Him, you go to Hell. It is pretty much that simple.

If God is as vindictive as all that, I think that I'll pass on the God thing. I'm so glad there's not a Vinth gospel in the Bible. I'm all about the new improved testament. :love Jesus :love

[mburbank]

It is no surprise that a vendictive, spiteful man believes God is vendictive and spiteful.

[VinceZeb]

Kelly, reject God all you want. When you go to Hell, you will know better. Rejecting God doesn't make Him not exist, you fucking dope. But go on living like you do, and I hope you like darkness and dispair.

[kellychaos]

From under the bridge, he once again makes an appearance. :)

BTW, Vinth. I'm not rejecting the idea that there may be a Supreme Being, just YOUR version of him/her. ;)

[mburbank]

Vinth, ignore God's teachings all you want. When you go to Hell, you will know better. Ignoring God's will doesn't make it not exist, you fucking dope. But go on living like you do, and I hope you like darkness and dispair.

Parrticularly dispair. Datpair too. and Dat one over dere.

[Vibecrewangel]

I'm confused by this..do you think I'm a Christian?

::giggle::
Nope.

Weren't you the one I had the discussion with about the actual teachings of LaVey vs what the church has become?
If not...well...the search function would have reminded me....

[Vibecrewangel]

Vince - You call Buddhism a philosophy yet you use your standard for religion to prove it. Which is it? A Religion or a philosophy?

[VinceZeb]

I call it a philosophy but I have to use the standards of religion because it is considered a religion. My own personal belief leads me to believe that it is a philosophy.

[Vibecrewangel]

I've never seen it referred to as a religion by anyone who actually practices or understands it.

Where have you learned that it is considered a religion?

[Perndog]

Weren't you the one I had the discussion with about the actual teachings of LaVey vs what the church has become?
If not...well...the search function would have reminded me....

I don't think that was me...DecapitatedHate maybe? I wish I could have been in on that discussion, I might have had something to add...

And Buddhism is considered a religion because it has specific teachings, it makes statements about the metaphysical and gives an answer to what happens after you die. At least, that's my definition of a religion.

[mburbank]

Hey, Vinthy, what else do your beliefs lead you to believe?

My beliefs lead me to believe believing in the belief of various beliefs and belief systems but that's just what I believe about my beliefs.

[Vibecrewangel]

Pern - It was fairly short lived conversation. Once we realized we were on a similar page it sort of fizzled out. Not too many other participants.

Funny how many different definitions of the word religion there are. For me, a religion has a strict set of rules to adhere to. It also tells you "the way it is". There is no room for any other form of thought.
A philosophy has guidelines for you to follow, but is more about teaching you how think. How to open ou mind. In the case of Buddhism you have the observer effect and how perception is reality. These would never fit into a religion as they leave too much room for the individual to come to their own conclusions.
[/i]

[Jeanette X]

*ahem*...I don't read the same bible you do....
Its pretty clear in all translations:
Matthew 10:35 - For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Did you sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor?

[mburbank]

You're confused. See the LITERALY true part of the bible is that Jesus existed, was the Messiah and if you don't believe that you go to hell forever when you die.

The things Jesus said are just metaphors. When he asks "Did you sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor?" what he MEANS is, "If you don't believe I'm the Messiah and accept me as your savior you go to hell forever when you die."

[Vibecrewangel]

Jeannette -

He doesn't follow ANY version of the Christian bible. :)

At least that is my guess.....

[Vibecrewangel]

In a way Buddhism is the Libertarian of the spiritual belief systems.

[mburbank]

You know he claims to have studied for the Priesthood.

My guess is he did his studying on a submarine.

Or thinks that going to catholic school is the same as studying for the preisthood on a Submarine.

[Zhukov]

You know he claims to have studied for the Priesthood.

Just like Stalin

[mburbank]

William Shatner was a rabinical school drop out.

[Vibecrewangel]

I now have the urge to re-write the song Beauty School Drop out from Grease.......

[Jeanette X]

*ahem*...I don't read the same bible you do....

Pay attention, Chimp. >:

So Pern, what Bible do you read anyway? Now I'm curious.

[Supafly345]

Kelly, reject God all you want. When you go to Hell, you will know better. Rejecting God doesn't make Him not exist, you fucking dope. But go on living like you do, and I hope you like darkness and dispair.Please dude. Just stop talking. You are making my religeon look bad by making people think that those who practice it are complete fucking morons.

[Perndog]

http://web.augsburg.edu/~herzog/satanicbible.jpg

Psst...look at my avatar. ;)

[Jeanette X]

Oh well that's different. Nevermind. :Gilda Radner

[Skulhedface]

Ironically, LaVey makes a good pirate.

[Supafly345]

Psst...look at my avatar. ;)Isn't that the dude off the Flash Gordon movie?

[CaptainBubba]

Mormons showed up at our door today!!! :eek

My dad did all the talking and (from my perspective) made them out to be brainwashed and utterly misled fools. My only comment was regarding coincidences (after submitting that it is within the realm of possibility that the golden tablet was made at the same time as the bible :rolleyes ) and how they can occur simply because they are coincidences, without any suggestion of supernatural interference, by citing Leibnitz and Newton's discovery of Calculus.

They got mad and called my dad a monkey (refrence to evolution. lol. ) and said he was making them too mad to talk to him and my dad said that his comments were very unchristian and he'd better go pray.

The guy agreed and went away taking his fellow "elder" (they looked about 22 each, heh) with him. It was very lol. : )

[O71394658]

When they come over our house, we just don't answer the door. :)

[CaptainBubba]

Then you sir, are missing out on one of lifes greater pleasures. Fucking with Mormon's heads is entertaining to no end. :)

[Supafly345]

Answer the door completely naked. Scratch your genitals as much as possible and insist that they come inside to talk some more. Now, if they actually are stubborn (or stupid) enough to follow you inside: walk bow legged so they can see exaxtly the kind of (wo)man you are (and it makes them look at your dangling balls too if you are a guy. x2 Score Multiplier!.)
Get mad at something stupid like your reflection in a mirror not obeying you and ask them to help you beat the crap out of whatever it was that pissed you off. (remember never to stop scratching your privates gratuitously through all this.)

[AChimp]

I found that you can get the biggest reaction out of a Jehovah's Witness by tell him or her that, "my god is better than your god."

It's like swatting at a hornet's nest. :)

[Vibecrewangel]

I was the reason my family got disfellowshipped when we were Jehova's Witnesses.

I was only like 5 or 6 at the time.

I gots mad skillz!!!

[Perndog]

A part of me wishes I had the opportunity to get kicked out of a group like that... :tear

Maybe I should get baptized Catholic and then go out and have some fun. http://www.personalsatan.com/lttd/images/graemlins/devil.gif

[VinceZeb]

Mormons are just out there doing what they think is good. I can't give them any shit for that.

The *False god* Witnesses', however.... let's just say they don't come around my place no more. Even the people on this board could out-argue a Witness.

[mburbank]

You out argued them? As opposed to being stupid, rude and lazy? Huh. I bet it was awesome.