Home run "king" indicted

[Geggy]

Good thing I sold all of his rookie cards, although it wasnt much but still enough to get myself a 12 pack.

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071115&content_id=2301117&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[Emu]

It's linseed oil, asshole!

[HungryWantBiddy]

I think it's garbage how he's being singled out man. He played (and excelled) in an era where EVERYONE was doing it. And to make him a scapegoat solely because he broke baseball's "sacred" record is bullshit. Look at Clemens... a 20+ year career, and I don't see anyone wanting to asterisk him or keep him out of the HOF. They credit his success to his intense training regimine...hmm.

I'm white, and I hate to play the race card...buuuuut..

[Geggy]

But hank aaron did it on fried chicken and watermelon!

[MattJack]

:( lol geggy stop being funny

[HungryWantBiddy]

This isn't about Hank. This is about an entire era of sports being "juiced" up. Selig and Upshaw (head of the NFL players' union) try to act like they want blood testing for the HGH. In private though, I bet they're both scared shitless of the can o worms that would open.

American sports need to take a lesson. Look how international track and field is handled, or the Tour de France. You use steroids in either of the 2 and you're banned for a year minimum. The San Diego Charger's star linebacker Shawn Merriman (sp?) sat out 4 games last year for use of the juice. 4 GAMES! That's it! And he still has his Nike deal.

I guess it's just the double standard that bothers me here. Bonds used steroids, there's no real way to deny that. But to try to make an example of him while other stars' (inside and outside of baseball) use of performance enhancing drugs is all but ignored is a true injustice and it serves as a reminder of just how biased ("balanced?") the media really is.

Hank did it on fried chicken and watermelon. Babe did it on cigars and beer. Barry did it on 'roids and gatorade. Big shit. The times they are 'a changin'. I'm sick of people trying to crucify Bonds because of his public image. You can bet that if Bonds hadn't always had a mediocre (at best) relationship with reporters, they wouldn't all be trying to nail him to the wall right now. What about Ivan "Pudge" Rodriguez? If anyone's ever used steroids it's that fucker, and I have never heard any suspicions voiced about where he got all his muscles.

This shit pisses me off...if you can't tell. Hope that was coherent enough for you to read :)

[El Blanco]

Bonds lied to a federal grand jury. Thats why he was indicted. It looks like Bonds is getting singled out because he is the most prolific player, took down a sacred record, and is a dick.

Pudge didn't use 'roids. He was always big. Thats where the nickname comes from. Also, he's always had injuries. The kind that steroids supposedly prevent.

My problem with all of this is the owners, execs and media dopes who are acting all righteous and angry. These assholes knew it was going on but didn't say anything. some of them probably facilitated the players using. Mike Lupica, Bud Selig and their ilk can all shut the fuck up.

I do think Bonds should go to the Hall of Fame. You can't claim he is a villain now after you were patting him on the back before 2003.

[HungryWantBiddy]

Good points on the purjury. He lied to a federal court...kind of. And that explains his indictment. But I still can't help but feel this is a witch hunt being led by the media. Like I said, why didn't the media jump all over Merriman last year? He's still got a fucking endorsement deal with one of the biggest sporting goods companies in the world. No company would touch Bonds with a 10 foot pole.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the pudge thing. You don't catch as long as he does and still be one of the best in the league without some type of aid... but that's just speculation.

We agree on my main point. Bonds is taking the fall for every big leaguer who's juiced over the past 20 years and it's not fair. The man deserves to be a first ballot HOFer.

I like your last statement too. Selig is now trying to bring down and what brought baseball back; that hormone induced summer of Slammin Sammy and Big Mac. The hypocrisy is too much, even for me.

[Sethomas]

Yeah, I guess something about an oaken bucket is going on here in town this weekend, or something. I was enjoying my 4:00 AM breakfast at a diner when a bunch of douches were talking about college sports and their lavish history. Anyways, at one point one douche said to another douche, "your blind hatred of Purdue is keeping us from having an intelligent conversation". I really felt like telling him that even if the course of their discourse managed to cogently derive Maxwell's Laws with only axioms taken from Plato's Republic, there would STILL be no such thing as an intelligent conversation about sports. I didn't, though.

[El Blanco]

Ya, it is so much better to sound like a pontificating prick with a bunch of pretentious ramblings on a philosophy that probably doesn't even apply to the situation.

How can I be as smart as you?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Sports is dum!

[Sethomas]

Hey El Blanco! Did you know that "pontificate" etymologically means "building bridges"? I just think that's pretty cool.

There are actually a lot of sports that I enjoy participating in. And, to be perfectly honest, when I kick a soccer ball I don't ruminate on the Confucian idea that it symbolizes a demonic head. But when it comes to professional athletics and its long and lurid history with the soft sciences, I think there's a lot to say about it being a sociological parasite. I mean, by being a PART OF THE SYSTEM I guess I have little room to talk. Some minimum wage sap pays $80 for a Peyton Manning jersey because it's LOCAL PRIDE, even though that handsome bloke only lives here because some nebulous corporation paid him countless millions to move here. The NFL takes in a tidy sliver of the profits to plug in countless millions into an otherwise pointless facility in downtown Indianapolis, and eventually down the line my dad gets paid a relatively minuscule fee to X-ray some moron millionaire athlete who'll probably be dead at 55 from some muscular dysmorphia-related ailment. And, as is the American way, my daddy pays for most of my college expenses. I'M A HYPOCRITE, GUYS.

[El Blanco]

You forgot asshole.

[HungryWantBiddy]

Seth, you were always picked last huh?

[Sethomas]

Actually, no. And since this is about professional sporting and not sports in general, that question is about relevant as my asking you if your fecal complex lasted until eighth grade. But, you know, with your primarily (and probably only) sports-related posts in the philosophy forum demonstrating you to be illiterate (well, maybe you read and understood my post, but made a retarded non-sequitur comment anyways because you were offended and you had to do something, I dunno), I guess I should thank you for proving my point.

[HungryWantBiddy]

No, Seth. Thank YOU for proving MY point.

[HungryWantBiddy]

Also, I didn't know this was strictly a philosophy forum. If I read correctly, and I did, it's the Philosophy/Sociology/Religion/Politics/News/etc. (http://www.i-mockery.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=11) forum. Thanks again, Seth.

[El Blanco]

Actually, no. And since this is about professional sporting and not sports in general, that question is about relevant as my asking you if your fecal complex lasted until eighth grade. But, you know, with your primarily (and probably only) sports-related posts in the philosophy forum demonstrating you to be illiterate (well, maybe you read and understood my post, but made a retarded non-sequitur comment anyways because you were offended and you had to do something, I dunno), I guess I should thank you for proving my point.

Point?

You came into a topic on an internet message board you have no interest in and no knowledge of just to tell a bunch of people they are stupid for being concerned with a multi-billion dollar industry that has deep ties to American history. I'm sure you realize this a text book example of trolling.

Apparently, you were looking over the boards and decided there were too few douchebags around, so you increased their ranks by 1.

Well done, sir. Well done indeed.

[Sethomas]

Okay, I'll get to you eventually Blanco, but first I have to remind Hungryhungryhippo that he's retarded. Just a sec.

Hey Hungry! I see what you did there with the whole, "you proved my point" thing without making any link as to what the flying fuck you're talking about. A surprise move indeed, I had no idea you studied in the Peewee Herman School of Rhetoric. Oh, and the inclusion of the hyperlink in your ridiculously prolix quotation of the board's name was a nice touch. I can't really see how it was at all necessary, but perhaps it's a bit much to ask you to say things purposefully.

Okay, Blanco. I saw this thread as an invitation to discuss professional sports in general because there's no reason in hell why the titular issue of Bonds being indicted should come as any shock nor should meet any opposition. I mean, if I were to make a post saying, "Alan Greenspan depletes ozone layer with burning of polyester American flag", with my intent being to express the idea that the ozone hole is a straw man argument, then I wouldn't be altogether surprised if someone started talking about the Federal Reserve or the right to burn the flag.

And by the way, I don't feel guilty for shitting on a pointless institution because it involves lots of money and lots of history. The money part is horrendously oligopolistic, and I'll point out that racism, xenophobia, and high cholesterol are all just as or more intimately tied to American history as professional sports.

[HungryWantBiddy]

haha, yowza. "the Peewee Herman School of Rhetoric".. that actually made me laugh. Lighten up, Seth. You've proven your intellectual superiority...and my point, again.

Let me clarify this time, so you don't miss it:

You're a nerd. A loser, with nothing better to do than to troll a low-traffic forum and try to shoot others down. Why do you do that? Methinks it's because you were always picked last. Which, if you had been paying attention rather than seeing how far you could cram your nose up your own ass, you would have already known. I'm not interested in philosophy (maybe I'm just too dumb), so I don't give my input when others are seriously debating it. You obviously are not interested in discussing sports, so why did you post?

ANSWER: you're a loser, and you were always picked last.

[Sethomas]

Oh. Sorry, I just read your flailing attempt at screwball psychoanalytical ad hominem as just kindergarten mud-slinging. I didn't respond to it because that would, you know, feed the trolls. I mean, it's not like there's a staggering precedent of sedentary and obese fans of professional sports, right?

So, no. I've been in competitive sporting teams for a strong majority of all my years of education and beyond. Four different sports, in fact.

You're unfounded in your claim that I'm not interested in discussing sports, I'm just not interested in discussing them in a light that you'll agree with. Your insistence that I find professional sports retarded because I'm not good at sports would be like claiming that Preechr or KKK or Blanco support an unregulated market because they're millionaire industrialists, or that Max supports civil liberties because he's a gay flag-burner who enjoys recreational abortions. Extrapolate from that, and the rest of your post is meaningless.

Anyways, here's a fun fact I once read about PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL: a young child (I forget how old) will burn as many calories playing in a pool or whatever on a summer day as a professional athlete will on gameday. I find the physiology behind that pretty amazing, and not in a positive way coupled with the fact that we pay athletes millions and heroes such as Mr. Bonds can't even keep up his end of the bargain without steroids.

[MattJack]

yall niggaz is gay

[HungryWantBiddy]

You may say a lot, but I'm still right.

[El Blanco]

Do you know that children are different from adults? That your metabolism decreases as you get older?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

This thread is so oligopolistic.

[george]

don't forget the newports and fat redheads geggy, hank could not get by on food alone.

[Dr. Boogie]

I was talking with a buddy from my old job the other day, and he was telling me about how he and all the other game testers are bored out of their minds testing the new baseball game. Basketball was fairly entertaining, but there's just so very little variation in a baseball game, just selecting different pitches and lineups, with nothing like play-calling or the like. Oh yeah, buy College Hoops 2k8. Your favorite college is probably in there somewhere, there's so damn many teams.

Also, I did think it was kind of crummy that Barry Bonds made it into the Hall of Fame, but I don't mind it now so much seeing as his record-breaking ball has that asterik branded on it.

[Geggy]

god damn it

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153129

[El Blanco]

Roger Clemens on 'roids? Gee, couldn't see that coming. not like he's a bulging freak prone to violence or anything.

[HungryWantBiddy]

told you :)

[El Blanco]

Hey Kevin,

1996*
1998*
1999*
2000*

[KevinTheOmnivore]

B.S.

He came along for the last two, and can hardly take credit for the winning the rings.

Let's not forget that this list is not comprehensive...this is who they could actually accuse. There is no paper trail leading to Clemens or Pettite, just the word of one guy. I know this is how a Mets fan will rationalize their team sucking at life. Maybe Cameron and Lo Duca should've taken more.

[El Blanco]

Petite was there for all four.

Mike Stanton was the closer in 1996.

And you know why Clemens got run out of Boston. Out of shape, broken down, lost it.

suddenly a few months later in toronto, he starts a Cy Young campaign.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Andy--if you believe his accuser--didn't start until after his injury, which was after the championships. Strike one.

John Wetteland was the closer in '96, Rivera set him up. Stanton didn't join the Yanks until 1997, and was never ever the closer. Strike two.

Clemens was a virtual non-factor in '99 for us, although he pitched well against Seattle and Oakland in 2000. The Oakland series was especially big, but guess what? He was pitching against another juicer, Jason Giambi. So let's call it even.

Strike three!

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Oh, and btw, you might want to check out which team (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3153646) Stanton was playing for when he made his first HGH purchase. Tisk tisk.

[El Blanco]

OK, I'm about ready to punch every member of the Baseball Writers of America.

And the more I read from them, the more I want to punch the pretentious, self important, pompous hypocrites. They have the nerve to say that Clemens or Bonds don't go to the Hall of Fame and that they wouldn't vote for any player accused of steroids. These assholes were covering the players in the 80s and 90s and knew what was going on. they decided not to say anything. And now, they are using their votes to punish certain players.

I think if you covered these guys and never mentioned anything, you lose your vote.

I think the only person I've agreed with so far from that group is Buster Olney. He may be going a little overboard, but at least he isn't being two faced about it.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

STANTON WAS A MET!

This list is crap, in my mind. This isn't a comprehensive list of anything, and it's based partly off of a guy who wants to flip on people to lessen his own jail term. I was listening to some legal pundit talk about it this morning, and he made a couple good points: 1. If you aren't going to bring charges against the listed, then you've basically slandered them throughout the publc, and 2. you wouldn't rely simply on a rat to convict a person.

Guys like Clemens and Tejada--guys that are immortals, or still playing, or both--have the money and the players union behind them probably to defend their name.

What about a guy like Randy Velardi? He tried shit, supposedly, at the end of his career, but unless he wants to start his own lawsuit against MLB there's little he can do. Guys like CLemens will fight this and try to create a public debate...Velardi is just a juicer, and will forever be a juicer, b/c nobody cares otherwise. Sort of sucks for him.

[El Blanco]

Stanton was a Met for about 2 weeks.

Anyway, ya, the whole thing was a dog and pony show. There is nothing that can be considered solid evidence (although, I'm willing to bet Mitchel wouldn't have exposed these names without a little more than the word of a guy copping a plea). Clemens was already brought up last year. Nobody cares about Velarde, Hundely, and Joyner.

I say anyone that you can't confirm after 2003 gets off the hook. After all, the owners and writers knew and didn't do shit until then.

I'm wondering will this turn into an new witch hunt. What if teams use this as bargaining leverage when players negotiate contracts?

"We'd like to give you the money you're asking for, but you've been mentioned in steroid talks. We can't take that chance now."

It doesn't even have to be true. Someone just needs to "leak" it.

[AChimp]

I think they should kick all of those bums out. Afterwards, baseball could return to its roots of being played by overweight, middle-aged drunk guys.

[El Blanco]

Who wants to watch a game full of Canadians?