Mohammed's 9 Year Old Wife

[Kulturkampf]

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha.htm

read it for yourself.

I remember hearing about this 7-8 years ago and then a Muslim said, it was because she was a slave and the only way he could get her out of slavery was through marriage.

It turns out she was not a slave but a friend's foster-niece.

He got engaged to her at age six, but don't worry, he was a man of principles and waited until age 9 to marry her and begin cohabitation.

IDK... I used to always cite a big difference between Christ and Mohammed was that Christ was a man of peace who healed those who attacked him while Mohammed massacred those who would not convert (pure facts for you).

Now we can add one more to the list:

Christ was celibate and even encouraged profound celibacy amongst his followers.

Mohammed married the 9 year old nieces of his followers (after waiting three years out of decency).

[AlliSabbah]

Go back and read the Bible a little more closely before you start posting about religion. Also Christ never encouraged Celibacy.

Celibacy refers either to being unmarried or to sexual abstinence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abstinence). Celibacy is sometimes used as a synonym for "abstinence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstinence)" or "chastity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chastity)." A vow of celibacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_celibacy) is a promise not to enter into marriage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage) or engage in sexual intercourse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_intercourse). The term involuntary celibacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy) has recently appeared to describe a chronic, unwilling state of celibacy.

[Kulturkampf]

Matthew 19:12:

"I would that all men were even as myself; but every one hath his proper gift from God (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06608a.htm) .... But I say to the unmarried and to the widows (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15617c.htm), it is good for them if they so continue, even as I."

Basically... There is no need to ever get married or to be sexually active. :)

[AlliSabbah]

Matthew 19:12 goes as follows

For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.

What kind of Bible are you reading?

Oh yes before you start up on Eunichs were celibate. Eunich was originally used as a term for a servant or slave. They were not always castrated. So basically it is saying be a servant to the kingdom of Heaven.

[AChimp]

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=matthew+19%3A12&version1=9

King James version.

:lol @ getting pwned by your own Bible

[mburbank]

KKK, I would TOTALLY recommend celibacy for you.

[Dr. Boogie]

I'd recommend castration, chemical or otherwise.

[mburbank]

It's just my two cents, but I'm gonna vote for 'otherwise'.

[AlliSabbah]

Just to throw something completely random into this thread. :)

I just saw part of the Republican Debate and I though amazingly that Nick Romney looked a hell of a lot like Bruce Campbell.

What are your thoughts on this important issue KK?

Can we trust a potential president that has failed on numerous occasions to stop the rampaging hoard of Deadites to actually lead our great country?

[Miss Modular]

I just saw part of the Republican Debate and I though amazingly that Nick Romney looked a hell of a lot like Bruce Campbell.

http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m131/dotsetloops/romneysmiley.jpg

[AlliSabbah]

That is quite accurate as well. From a slightly diagonal angle we have Campbell and full on a muppet. Great just great.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

isn't that Guy Smiley?

[AlliSabbah]

Yes it is.

[ScruU2wice]

oh shit! I guess this means my faith is wrong. son of a bitch, I thought I was praying to the right god this time.

[Kulturkampf]

I copied whatever it was from the catholic encyclopedia when I went to get quick links to the reasons for the celibacy of the clergy. My bad.

But one thing still stands: Mohammed had 9 or 11 wives, it is debated on hthe number, and one of them was a 9 year old girl. He was a fucking pedophile son of a bitch.

[Dr. Boogie]

Luke 16:12

And the Lord spake, "would someone please tell the Muslims that they are worshipping the wrong god," and then did the Lord roll his eyes at the worshippers of Allah, declaring "duuuuuh!"

[ScruU2wice]

yeah because catholics are gonna put Mohammad on a pedestal.

none the less I love this topic it's so meaningful. It doesn't seem like purposeless mudslinging on islam with questionable sources and self mutilating dousche bags trying to feel like they are better than another group of people because he read the wikipedia article on their religious leader.

[ScruU2wice]

taking a purely logical stand point I'm gonna remind KK that he is a stupid dumbshit, because knocking islam doesn't make Christianity better.

What difference does it make how many wives mohammad had to what type of religion Christianity is? Did people run out and get islam membership cards because the Da Vinci code convinced them that Jesus married Mary Magdalin?

KK, you're actually perpetuating the awful stereotype that people of faith are petty and will try to make you think like them in subverted methods. Do you benefit at all by muckraking? do you have a careful understanding of arabic tribal culture? do you think there is a competition between muslim and christians to gain the most constituants like insurance companies or something?

[AChimp]

KKK is also forgetting that 1500 years ago, people had life expectancies of something in the neighbourhood of 25 years. If you were 15, you probably already had 3 kids.

[AlliSabbah]

The Bible has instances of the same thing you are complaining about with Mohammed KK. Do your research and you will see. Not to mention several other heinous acts that would be looked down upon in todays society.

Most religions are founded on basically the same principle its manipulative religous organizations that ruin what could be a decent message.

[Jeanette X]

OMG HOW DARE YOU SAY SUCH A THING! FATWA ON YOU FAAAAAATWWWWWAAA!

[QUOTE]IDK... I used to always cite a big difference between Christ and Mohammed was that Christ was a man of peace who healed those who attacked him while Mohammed massacred those who would not convert (pure facts for you).


“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law, and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.
“Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his lifewill lose it, and whoever loses his life because of me will find it. -Matthew 10:34-39

You aren't the only one who can quote Matthew, KK.

[Kulturkampf]

The difference here is that to cite absurdities in Christianity requires going to old testament books -- Christ overthrew Old Testament law nearly daily. He was the one who performed miracles on the Sabbath and stopped the stoning of an adulteress woman, a man who hung out with prostitutes and Roman tax collectors.

Your quote which speaks of sword and division has everything to do with obedience to God the father and creating a new spiritual family and nothing to do with physical warfare.

Christ healed the man's ear whow as cut by Peter when he was being taken away to be interrogated by the Sanhedrin.

John 18:36: Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

we do not fight with weapons at all:

2 Corinthians 10:3-4: 3For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world.

Check your facts, JACK.

[AlliSabbah]

The John quote is not good for your case as he is saying he is not afraid to die due to knowledge of his ascension to heaven. It clearly states that without life after death his followers would be willing to fight to protect him.

10:3 Though we live in the flesh we do not wage war after the flesh.

Saying thier war is for souls not bodies.

Your Corinthians 10:4 quote is butchered like your earlier quote. Im going to suggest you get a King James bible instead of whatever hacked up version you happen to be looking at now.

(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds.)

It is a message to the Christians of Corinth trying to bolster thier faith in times of trouble. Though they may not be strong physically thier faith can move mountains basically.

[mburbank]

"it is debated on the number,"


AAAAAAAGH!!!!

[mburbank]

" we do not fight with weapons at all"

Well, so much for soldiering being the noblest profession. I agree with you, Jesus was a radical peacenik and expected as much of his followers. Why tout the superiority of a religion you not only don't follow, but who's values you flaunt? What does it matter what club you claim to belong to. Call yourself a Zoroastrian for all I care.

Who knows what the Jeeze would have done were he sexual at all? Concidering he mostly hung with dudes, have you considered the possability he was a fag? I know the bible doesn't mention him doing guys, but it doesn't mention him pooping either, and I bet he did. Are you championing his lack of sexuality? You who list intercourse as one of the few worthwhile things in life?

I think the Superman comics are superior to Christianity, cause not only is the last son of Krypton as moral as Jesus, he can FLY an he has HEAT VISION! Or if you don't believe in Jesus, I think Ghandi was superior, because we know for a fact what he did, and in the case of Mohamed and Jesus we only have ancient texts.

IN ADDITION, polygammy and marriage to pre pubescent women was not at all unusual. Often females were betrothed when they were still infants, and that doesn't mean the biblical world was rife with baby sex. There wasn't much point in sex prior to the ability to have children, especially when you already had other wives who could. You speculate Mohamed was a pediophile because you are a repulsive person with a need to feel your 'clubs' are better than other peoples. You want to feel your religion is better and makes you better? Try practicing it.

[Jeanette X]

Your quote which speaks of sword and division has everything to do with obedience to God the father and creating a new spiritual family and nothing to do with physical warfare.

Check your facts, JACK.

*gasp*
You mean there's more than on interpretation of the text?! YOU DON'T SAY!

But...but...that might mean that there is more to the text about Aisha than meets the eye! That might mean that Mohammed wasn't really banging a 9 year old!

Mind-boggling! Another interpretation of Aisha, just like there's another interpretation of Matthew! :hypno

[ScruU2wice]

The difference here is that to cite absurdities in Christianity requires going to old testament books -- Christ overthrew Old Testament law nearly daily. He was the one who performed miracles on the Sabbath and stopped the stoning of an adulteress woman, a man who hung out with prostitutes and Roman tax collectors.

pure facts.

[Kulturkampf]

scru: whehter you believe they were miracles or not he was violating the Sabbath and the Hereses even confronted him on it. That is what is important...

And Max, St. Augustine wrote a bit on military service and noted that no one can kill for God or for religion and the only way that a Christian can engage in fighting is if it is ordered by law or if it is in self-defense.

He spoke of the division between the carnal world and the heavenly world in his landmark peace, City Of God, and noted that one of the many contradictions on Earth is that people have to fight for peace (which is not a contradiction that exists in the Heavenly world).

There is a clear separation of each in all early Christian thought.

But of course, when we discuss these things people interpret them however they want. Even though I doubt any of you guys are Christians, you simply use liberal interpretations to piss off the conservative Christian here. But that is what is to be expected so I am not surprised.

Next: we know that MOhammed started having sex with his 9 year old wife during cohabitation. lIn her accounts in the Haddith she notes they bathed together and during her menstrual cycle he would fondle her. So she was menstruating. He was fucking her amongst his other 9 or 11 wives (this number is debated even amongst Muslims).

These are just facts, Max, and it goes to show that while Christians focused on healthy spiritual life Mohammed was focusing on a more earthly life of violence and sex.

In fact, it is boasted in the Haddith that Mohammed had the strength of 30 men and on occasion would fuck all 9 or 11 of his wives in one night (11 in the accounts of him fucking them all in one night).

Sources:

Narrated by Aisha:

The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.298

another good excerpt:

Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:

Narrated Qatada:

Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/005.sbt.html#001.005.268

[ScruU2wice]

scru: whehter you believe they were miracles or not he was violating the Sabbath and the Hereses even confronted him on it. That is what is important...

mohammad stopped the angel gabriel from pressing a town of sinner, because he believed that even if they didn't follow righteous path their children would, and if their children didn't their children's children would. so if you wanna exchange miracle stories I'm down.

plus if you cared any about the religion of islam you'd know that unsupported hadiths are a dime a dozen. I've heard hadiths saying that I should only eat dates and drink coconut oil during ramadan, regardless of the physiological realities of the diet. SO I'm a little suspicious of a hadith that says its routed in Islam saying that mohammad was a pedophile. Do you hear many sermons talking about jesus and mary magdaline having a kid?

[Kulturkampf]

There are Islamic groups that have scolded other Muslims for westernizing themselves by rejecting those accounts.

Do you know whether those specific Hadiths are rejected or not?

It seems Hadiths are important:

Hadith (الحديث transliteration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Arabic): al-ḥadīth) are oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet_Muhammad). Hadith collections are regarded as important tools for determining the Sunnah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunnah), or Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) way of life, by all traditional schools of jurisprudence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhab).

(wikipedia)

Both Hadiths quoted come from accepted Sunni hadiths, not rejected ones.

They come from the Bukhtari and Muslim hadiths.

So what do you think of that, then, that these are accepted hadiths and not just the shot in the dark ones?

[ScruU2wice]

I have my doubts about the ones that are solely designed to make the the prophet muhammad look bad, by giving us the miracle of a 9 year old menstrating. Sounds like an argument any sensible oral tradition passed by muslims would make.

none the less you have repeated dodged my direct question: what's your point with this topic?

[AlliSabbah]

I know just about nothing about the Koran and therefore I will refrain from arguing correctness in thier passages. But due to the inacuracy of the previous Bible quotes they are definately suspect. Too bad I am not motivated enough to check into them.

[MLE]

jesus, this thread gave me a headache.

[Kulturkampf]

The point of this topic was to show my contempt for Islam.

Just the way as atheists often make threads showing their contempt of religion and specifically Christianity, you can consider this my own little religous thread showing where I stand on something.

[mburbank]

" Just the way as atheists often make threads showing their contempt of religion..."

'Just the way as"

"Just the way as"

I'm trying to imagine what it's like to be as big a boob as you are, and I can't.

In addition to showing your contempt for the English language, you put all this work into a thread that's about showing contempt, because, what, you disapprove of the contempt of others?

All you've shown is that you are contemptous, something generally not considered a virtue.

What the hell is wrong with you?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

I've never understood these "your religion is fucked up" debates. Dude, I eat a dead hippie every week and drink his blood. Max talks to Moses at night, and yeah, Scru digs little girls. Awesome.

How are you going to begin a discussion by telling 1.5 billion people that they're pervert worshippers? How is that a solid footing to begin a discussion?

I think there's a big difference between political Islam and broader Islam. Ali Eteraz (http://eteraz.wordpress.com/) has become a pretty good authority on this. You can't win an argument with 1.5 billion people over whether their faith sucks or not. It's pointless.

[Jeanette X]

The point of this topic was to show my contempt for Islam.

That's a surefire way towards intelligent, reasoned debate. Goody for you.

[Emu]

He doesn't want debate, he wants a blog that has readers.

[Dr. Boogie]

I feel like this thread is over now that KK admitted he's just trolling.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Damnit, where'd the porn go!?

This thread was making a comeback, Boogie.

[Dr. Boogie]

Come on, KK, give me something, here.

How about those Jews, huh? Don't you have a very informative study that points out that Jewish people do have large noses and a love of money?

[AlliSabbah]

If you dont just make some up or change something in the bible to say it. Im counting on you for entertainment KK. Do not let me down.

[mburbank]

This just occurred to me.

In the interests of full disclosure you should all know that my wife was nine and a half when we got married.

In hindsight, I see how it could appear that this biased my contribution to this thread.

[Triad-Brother Choi]

While 9 seems young it is possible for it to be passed the very clear sign of womanhood.

Example from my personal being my grandmother being 13 when married and pregnant soon after. Is this bad? Maybe. Maybe modern concept of childhood is silly to my grandmother. Social norms differ wildly. Maybe religion is more personal. Maybe religion is just for you and no one needs to interfere if you do not break their silly rules. So silly rules for everyone. Good luck to all my friends. :)

[AlliSabbah]

Why dont we all just become Mormon. If you take all the religion out of it they have a pretty good idea.


Multiple wives for everyone YAY!!!!

[Jeanette X]

Why dont we all just become Mormon. If you take all the religion out of it they have a pretty good idea.


Multiple wives for everyone YAY!!!!

Only a few splinter groups still do that.

[AlliSabbah]

Only a few splinter groups still do that.


Well thats the only part I agree with so only those types of Mormons.

Although my wife always slaps me when I mention converting for some strange reason.

[sspadowsky]

My bullshit religion is better than your bullshit religion.

[AChimp]

I'm pleased to see that my Triad brothers have returned after all these years. :)

[ScruU2wice]

yeah what the hell? We have not been receiving nearly as many death threats in this forum as we used to.

time to bring your A game triad brothers.

[ZAKO the GREAT]

seriously,
this thread is HOT! :hypno

[Sethomas]

yeah what the hell? We have not been receiving nearly as many death threats in this forum as we used to.

From: ArrowX

Oct 26th, 2007, 04:41 AM YOUR DONE! I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD SETH!


Well, I guess sometimes you have to lower your standards.

[Kulturkampf]

My religion does not encourage violence nor does it encourage polygamy nor did my Savior marry a 9 year old girl (after engaging her at age six on a suggestion).

Christ healed the ear of the man who was taking Him to His Crucifixion.

Mohammed orders the death of all who do not pay a special tax to Muslims for being allowed to live:

"Sura (9:29) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.029) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.""

And from the Haddiths, this one is great:

" Bukhari (52:177) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.""

[mburbank]

Who cares what your religion encourages? It actively discourages everything you do and yet you go merrily along not just doing it, but advocating for it. You are one man argument for the insignificance of what religion encourages.

[MattJack]

My religion does not encourage violence nor does it encourage polygamy nor did my Savior marry a 9 year old girl (after engaging her at age six on a suggestion).

So instead you believe that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force in your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

Makes perfect sense.

I think I saw that on a shirt a 13 year old was wearing at the parish fair or somethin, but it applies.

[Kulturkampf]

Well, first, I am not a hypocrite anymore, Max.

And second:

Humanity asked to leave the Garden of Eden, essentially, when it disobeyed God and this was previously known that was going to happen. The Garden of Eden is basically a position in Heaven that was present for humans and is more relevant along these lines. The serpent really did nothing other then set the stage for us disobeying God.

Christ was a Jew but He was not a zombie.

And do you deny that humans have evil desires inside of them?

[Ninjavenom]

If christ overthrew the laws of the old testament, wouldn't that render the ten commandments void?

[MattJack]

Humanity asked to leave the Garden of Eden, essentially, when it disobeyed God and this was previously known that was going to happen. The Garden of Eden is basically a position in Heaven that was present for humans and is more relevant along these lines. The serpent really did nothing other then set the stage for us disobeying God.

Christ was a Jew but He was not a zombie.

And do you deny that humans have evil desires inside of them?

I dunno man, asking and being punished for disobeying seems kinda different to a simple boy like me. Further, if God knew this shit was coming then howcome he just didn't skip the whole tree/snake thing? Why not just not put humans in the Garden of Eden in the first place?

Christ rose from the dead after being crucified, so that nigga's a zombie.

I personally don't think I have evil desires inside of me.

I don't really want to debate anymore. I'm just trying to show you that Christianity is just as silly as Islam.

[ScruU2wice]

"Sura (9:29) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/009.qmt.html#009.029) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.""

And from the Haddiths, this one is great:

" Bukhari (52:177) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.""




do you have any sources beside that same USC website that no one believed your first 9 posts? maybe a site that doesn't have translations in completely slanted rhetoric?

[Kulturkampf]

Here is Sura 9:29 on a different site:

"[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly." (source (http://www.submission.org/suras/sura9.htm))

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."


International Islamic University Of Malaysia (http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/bukhari/052_sbt.html)

[mburbank]

So, wait, you've turned your back on brawling, drunkeness and casual sex?

A.) Hard to believe

B.) If you have, how do we know your new found Christianity isn't just a fad like your drunken brawling that in six months time will yield to scientology, knitting or any other passtime that lodges in your shaved little head?

[Kulturkampf]

First, I still drink a lot but I never fight or have casual sex.

Second, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I was a Christian even during that time of my life but merely a hypocrite.

Third, the OT was not overturned because Christ re-affirms it several times. If I need to source these you should just get a Bible and read it. It'd be good for your mind.

[Jeanette X]

Third, the OT was not overturned because Christ re-affirms it several times.

So you keep kosher then? :lol

[Kulturkampf]

No no, I should have said the Ten Commandments.

Dietary laws, sacrificial rites, punishments that were meant for a group of Jewish tribes incurring persecution at every corner living in the roughest neighborhood on the Arab Street, Jewish ethnocentrism have all been removed entirely and completely.

[Jeanette X]

Jewish ethnocentrism have all been removed entirely and completely.

Do you honestly think that Jews keep their traditional laws just out of ethnocentrism?

[Kulturkampf]

No.

But reading the Bible from the perspective of a Philistine gentile 1400 BC might seem kind of unfair.