RE4: killer of a classic?

[Troubleshoot]

Many people probably remember (and still play) the earlier resident evil games, from the very first one on the playstation to RE4. While RE4 has been claimed to completely top the previous titles, I believe it has killed a classic. Unintentionally, but still.

Veterans of the RE series knew the game had limited re-playablility. Sure, it was tough your first go through, but once you beat the game it went from "survival horror" to "survival walk though the park and pet the pretty doggies". Just about no one dies replaying through the game.

Well, there was a way to get the original thrill of RE back, but it would require skill, more skill then most people could even begin to fathom.

The Knife Run (Que dramatic music)

For those who haven't had the video gaming pleasure of playing Resident Evil one, the knife was pretty much the P.O.S. (piece of shit) weapon every game has. It did little damage, hell the first enemy you fought with it took 7-9 slashes of the knife before it even considered dying. Also, you had to get close enough for the zombie to actually bite you to hit it with said knife. Most people tucked it away in the magical item box first chance they could, for something considered 1000 times more useful, such as the lighter.

Imagine the entire game, with enemies more then three times as tough and several bosses, with just that knife. Not pretty eh?

Yet, there was some guy who did it, and he probably has earned the ultimate bragging rights for resident evil. It became a challenge, a completely different game with the first. Many people have tried or done a knife run, and I promise you that they consider it victory hard earned.

It caught on in the gaming community, and in every title from the first to code veronica X(thats 5 or six games total), knife runs were being done and challenge was being restored.

Then RE4 came out, and while making the initial game easier, the robbed many avid (I honestly don't know what avid means) gamers of this ultimate challenge.

In RE4 (for those that haven't had the chance to play it) requires you to use a gun at some points in the game. I don't mean that there is a 1/1000000000000000000000000 chance you can get lucky and pull it off with a knife, I mean that shooting must be done.

"But wait, I'll only use the gun in those cases, that will make it count right?"

Sadly, the answer is no.

Several boss fights require the use of a gun, otherwise the bosses can't even be touched.

So the closest thing to a knife run in resident evil 4 is a "Do not upgrade your starting handgun, do not buy anything from the merchant, don't get the magnum or shotgun, handgun and knife only" run. They shortened that to the "No merchant Handgun/Knife" run, but it still lacks the ring of being call "the knife run"

I personally hope that the gameplay in the 5th resident evil brings back the knife run. Until that moment of truth is determined, all I can do is remember the knife and it's glory.

Anyone agree with me (or read that whole damn article for that matter)?

[Guitar Woman]

I didn't read your essay, but thanks for reminding me that Resident Evil 4 is the best game I've ever bought twice.

[darkvare]

I didn't read your essay, but thanks for reminding me that Resident Evil 4 is the best game I've ever bought twice.

i can't belive it i agree with guitar woman :eek except i just bought it once
and i also have all of them from 1 to 4 and i still prefer 4

[Phoenix Gamma]

Last winter break, I stayed at my parent's place. My dad, thrilled to have the Wii again, wanted a shooting game. He read around, and decided to get RE4, not knowing I owned the Gamecube version.

I still haven't told him, only because I don't want to belittle
all of the fun he had. He fucking loved it, and he hates a lot of good games. He played it for hours on end, and he'd tell me every night about this new part that he's at or how those blind guys are a bitch.

tl;dr: RE4 is a pretty rad game.

[pac-man]

I read the whole thing, and I disagree completely. G-Dub and darkvare and scores of RE fans hold this one in high regard for one very simple reason: it is the best in the series. Horror, art, suspense, game play, replay, weapons, villains, bosses, etc. It outclasses it's predecessors. It's Ali vs. Jack Johnson. It's the '95-'96 Bulls vs. the '71-'72 Lakers. It's Franklin Roosevelt vs. Teddy Roosevelt. Both are great, both made things better, both are highly regarded, but one is obviously more influential and better than the other.

If being able to play through the others with only a knife makes them stand above 4, then I can't reason with you. I can't tell you how to play a game or what makes the game fun for you. Some people like Virtua Fighter's depth, some like Tekken's accessibility. So if the knife run is your determining factor (and I'll be honest, I never succeeded in one) then yeah, you're gonna hold that against RE4.

Everything else about Resident Evil 4 is so far and away better than it's forefathers it isn't even funny. Navigating your character like he/she is a tank is not fun; a dearth of fresh challenges, puzzles, backgrounds, or situations is not fun; re-hashing the same old same from one sequel to another brings down the series as a whole; I could go on. I personally don't think the series went anywhere productive (especially in a game play since) past number 1 until number 4. Were RE2 or RE3 or Code Veronica awesome? Sure, but let's not pretend they weren't cut-and-paste in many respects. All had different levels of challenge from the get-go. Ninja Gaiden (Xbox) was both praised and lambasted for it's challenge, so NG2 (from what I hear/read) lightens up. Some people want to play games, some want to master them. Neither group is wrong, but all should enjoy. RE4, to me, is easily the most enjoyable game of the series thus far for all parties.

[King Hadas]

Your dad sounds really cool gamma.

Troubleshoot, that knife challenge thing sounds like such a gargantuan waste of time that anyone who actually saw it to completion might seriously consider putting video games aside to pick up a hobby that's a bit more productive.

I can't think of a single instance were I died in RE4 and blamed it on the game, always my folly that got me killed. Alternatively, I can't think of single instance in the old REs were I died and it wasn't the games fault. I'm ashamed to admit that sometimes when I'm in a tough spot in other games I'll start whining about being cheated,

"That's not fair >: "
"That's cheap :( "
"This games cheating :tear"

but Resident Evil is cheating me, it's bullshit, BULLSHIT! It's impossible not to get frustrated at a game that puts zombies off screen, programs them not to attack until the camera deigns to shift to an angle where you can see them standing right fucking next to you at which point it's to late to fucking dodge them which ends up killing you because you've long since ran out of herbs to heal yourself and ammunition to defend yourself with (which doesn't matter anyways, you can't really avoid the fucker unless you know his there) forcing you to go back to your last save point which was quite awhile ago seeing how you'd long since ran out of ink ribbons to save your game with.

I think if it hadn't been for RE4 I might never of realized how much I hate these game mechanics and although I'll miss those beautiful pre-rendered backgrounds (REmake looks exceptionally good even by todays standards) I think I'll be happy if Capcom never deviates back to this garbage.

[Troubleshoot]

In no way shape or from did I claim RE4 sucked, In fact I loved it as much as the next guy. It's just this aspect of the game the got removed that made me feel disappointed. I guess it's just in my neighborhood, but the knife run is more or less tradition. I still loved RE4.

[argonath]

A minor change affecting a minor population of RE gamers. Sorry the game loses something for you guys, but challenge yourself with finding a similar test within the new gameplay formula. Evolve as the series--thankfully--did.

[darkvare]

the knife run? i just use the knife in the ds version cause of master of knifing

[Fathom Zero]

I don't understand how making RE4's knife easier to use has made earlier knife runs in any of the previous games any less valid. Because they're different games.

[Guitar Woman]

The knife challenge sounds retarded, anyway. If I want a challenge from a classic style Resident Evil I'll go through the REmake mode where an explosive zombie stalks you throughout the entire game. At least that way I can enjoy myself.

[Lobo Tommy]

RE4 is still an amazing game.

[Guitar Woman]

This thread put me in the mood to play it last night, and when I got to the boulder part I remembered how much I hate quicktime events.

[executioneer]

i dont hate them, they make me nostalgic for dragon's lair :x

[Phoenix Gamma]

There's a place for QTE, and it's not during a cutscene. A cutscene means you're not playing. Then FUCKFUCKFUCK PICK UP THE CONTROLLER AND HAMMER THE A BUTTON. Not that it's hard; it just breaks the flow.

With Dragon's Lair, I'm expecting to have a command pop up, because that's the game's entire premise.

[pac-man]

I've hated the shit out of them since Shenmue, and QTE's are definitely one annoyance RE4 has over his predecessors.

[Troubleshoot]

Well, it makes up wake up if your playing the game at 3 AM. Sadly I'm not really good at the QTEs. The whole damn part with krauser and the lasers ran me up about 10 continues the first time through. But hey, not bad at all once you can get the feel for them.

Exploding zombie? Are we talking about the GC remake here? Cause he was more of an annoyance then a challenge. It did throw me off first time I saw him though.

[Guitar Woman]

There aren't enough games where you are being stalked by ridiculously dangerous enemies, and when done well (see also Metroid Fusion holy fucking shit) it's the scariest thing ever :<

So of course I loved it.

[darkvare]

i have to admit i enjoy quick time events but i prefer them in boss fights in shenmue 2 i liked them because it was the only quick thing about the game

[Dimnos]

I have never heard of this knife run before. :( How would one kill bosses in RE1 with only a knife? I mean Tyrent would just kick your A with his claw arm thingy. The Plant boss.. how would you even go about fighting it with a knife? Is there a video of this? If not Im tempted to call BS :(

[Angryhydralisk]

There aren't enough games where you are being stalked by ridiculously dangerous enemies, and when done well (see also Metroid Fusion holy fucking shit) it's the scariest thing ever :<

So of course I loved it.

Can't go wrong with any game that forces you to stay on your toes because shit is constantly coming at you. And who could forget NEMESIS? I figured since he was a tyrant he'd be slower than slug piss.

I PISSED WRONG.

:bestthread

[Lobo Tommy]

There aren't enough games where you are being stalked by ridiculously dangerous enemies, and when done well (see also Metroid Fusion holy fucking shit) it's the scariest thing ever :<

So of course I loved it.

Ever played Clock Tower?

[Guitar Woman]

Yes. :(

The Plant boss.. how would you even go about fighting it with a knife?

Well, can't Jill just kill it by poisoning the water supply? Or is that Remake only?

If you were Chris, yeah, you'd be pretty fucked.

[Dimnos]

Its been a long time since i have played it so i dont really remember all that well. I remember something about poison but i thought you still had to fight it somewhat. I looked on youtube for "resident evil knife run" and they have part one to ten. However part ten ends with killing the snake (2nd fight with the snake), again its been a while and my memery sucks, but i think that is before you even leave the house. So it doesnt even show you the plant boss or tyrent.

[Girl Drink Drunk]

Yes. :(



Well, can't Jill just kill it by poisoning the water supply? Or is that Remake only?

If you were Chris, yeah, you'd be pretty fucked.
You can do that in the original RE.

[Chojin]

You can kill plant 42 with the knife, as well.

As for tyrant, the Japs came up with a 'star pattern' to kill him with a knife. You stab him, then run past him at an angle, stab him, then run past him at an angle, etc; the pattern you make around him is something like a pentagram. And if you do it right, he can't turn quickly enough to hit you.

1st tyrant fight (Chris):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ScdeNHJLoqY

2nd tyrant fight (Chris):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=coP2dwZlpCI

Plant 42 fight (Chris):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=e9M5-9kcugk

Plant 42 fight (Jill):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YWKkJqeI0d8

The best and most ironic part of this whole thread, though, is that you HAVE to kill the tyrant with the rocket launcher the second time you fight him to beat the game.

[OxBlood]

I read the whole thing, and I disagree completely. G-Dub and darkvare and scores of RE fans hold this one in high regard for one very simple reason: it is the best in the series. Horror, art, suspense, game play, replay, weapons, villains, bosses, etc.

Resident Evil 4 is a fun game and I like it a lot, but I have to disagree with you there. Firstly, Resident Evil 4 is not a horror game anymore, spanish peasants with insects in their skulls are not scary, at least as far as I´m concerned. But I´m also someone who thinks "No Zombies - No Resident Evil" but hey.

The gameplay sure is faster and maybe more rewarding, but I always loved that certain comfyness the old Resident Evils emitted, which is totally gone in Part 4, because there are too many enemies and almost every "Level" is as wide as...well, something very wide and big. Look at the castle, you could steer a tank (har har) through there.

Replay Value and Weapons ARE better, without a doubt, I´m not gonna argue with that, the weapons are incredibly fun to use, you keep them in the next playthrough, what more can I ask for.

Villains & Bosses...well, as stated above, I don´t like the peasants or most of the other enemies in the game...the lake-thing was very nice, but the rest was mere standart minus the zombie-factor.

In my opinion, the best Resident Evil game is the remake of Part 1, followed by Resident Evil 2. Resident Evil 4 would be third place probably, if I regard it as a Resident Evil game. Which is not that easy since there´s nearly nothing left that made the Series so nice.

[MarioRPG]

I don't really care for things such as "knife runs" or "no health upgrades" or I think Zelda even had "no sword" runs. I just don't see the point.

As for Resi 4, I liked it enough to get the Cube and GC version, so I'm very biased toward it. I found it to be an excellent game, considering I'm only mediocre at the rest of the series. Which, in a sense, sucks, because the games are pretty awesome I just can't win at them.

[Lobo Tommy]

Speed runs, knife runs, no hit runs, etc are stupid. Just play the fucking game.

Also, RE4 is scary. The first time you get to the village and you are chased by peasants into a house and a guy with a chainsaw comes and kills you is scary. Jesus, that was the longest sentence I've ever written.

[Guitar Woman]

Regenerators scared me worse than anything I've encountered in a Resident Evil game, but that was really the only part of 4 that stood out in that respect.

REmake is probably the best in terms of scariness, but I hold 4 above the rest of the series because it was the only one that captured that "Night of the Living Dead" feel that I assumed all the other games were like; encountering a huge number of unrelenting enemies, killing as many as you can before you're forced to retreat, barracading yourself in a crappy little farm house and fending them off from inside until they break in and you are completely overwhelmed, etc.

Of course, it's all way too easy and that never really happens, which is the only problem I have with 4. But I did still enjoy the general feeling of it much more than the other games, which were like "walk through hall, find single zombie, shoot zombie in head, burn zombie, rinse, repeat" with a boss fight or slightly faster enemy every so often to mix things up, and a lot of asinine puzzle solving and backtracking. I was really really excited for RE1 when I heard zombies could break down doors because I thought it meant they would actually chase you into other parts of the mansion if you ran away and hid, but all the instances of an enemy busting into the room you're in are completely scripted and it happens like, two times.

[Girl Drink Drunk]

I never found it outsandingly scary. The regenerators were pretty creepy, as was that moving sack in the dumpster, but otherwise, it was kind of tame.

[Dimnos]

Thanks for the vids Chojin

[Chojin]

I still think the original RE is the most terrifying in the series :< Remake, for whatever reason, seems very 'plastic' to me and I can't really get myself to imagine the mannequins as real people - but somehow, the terrible playstation grainyness lets me imagine they're real people easier. Maybe it was the intro cutscene.

I also don't know about REmake, but I would run out of ammo all the time in RE, and that was terrifying. In RE4, that never seems to be a big issue.

But I haven't gotten far in RE4 because I keep getting so anxious that I stop having fun ;<

[Dimnos]

Has anyone played this on the PC? I no longer own a gamecube and havnt gotten a Wii yet but I was thinking about picking it up on the PC. I hear it had some graphics problems but that there is a patch that fixed that. Other than the graphics problems is it even worth getting on the PC? Or am I better off with the fond memories of the gamecube version?

[pac-man]

I don't know about a PC version, but it was also released on PS2 with a little bonus content. And it's PS3 compatible.

[Fathom Zero]

Not just a little bonus content. It had a lot of extra things, especially the collector's edition.

[Dimnos]

I hear the PC version is a port of the PS2 version, with all the bonus content the PS2 game had to offer. Problem is I dont have a PS2 or PS3 either. Im working with a 360 a PC and I have a DS laying around somewhere.

[Fathom Zero]

I think you should get the PC version.

[LordSappington]

I liked RE4 best in the sense that it was the only one I could manage the controls on without throwing the controller at the tv.

[Guitar Woman]

The PC version doesn't have HD lighting, bump mapping, particle effects, or any of the other graphical goodies the console versions have. There is also no mouse aiming, which is retarded as it is not currently 1992. It's an incredibly lazy and awful port, and I really don't reccomend getting it.

[MetalMilitia]

I heard they fixed a few things with subsequent patches (the lighting in particular). Which isn't to say it's not still broken in various other ways.

[Fathom Zero]

This thread makes me want to nap.

[MarioRPG]

I never found it outsandingly scary. The regenerators were pretty creepy, as was that moving sack in the dumpster, but otherwise, it was kind of tame.

What about oven man? :(

[Guitar Woman]

the oven guy was hilarious :<

[Girl Drink Drunk]

I'll admit the kitchen area and mess hall was kinda creepy, but it didn't really have the same impact on me as RE 2, or match the quality of the gameplay itself.

[Nick]

RE4 is best because Leon is a sexy beast. Rawr.

[darkvare]

The PC version doesn't have HD lighting, bump mapping, particle effects, or any of the other graphical goodies the console versions have. There is also no mouse aiming, which is retarded as it is not currently 1992. It's an incredibly lazy and awful port, and I really don't reccomend getting it.

you can use a 360 or a ps2 controller if you have the connection for it i used the 360 controller and it was ok

[Dimnos]

What kind of connection do you need to use your 360 controller on your PC?

[Lobo Tommy]

RE4 is best because Leon is a sexy beast. Rawr.

Is it just me or is Leon so cool he isn't afraid of anything? When you hear Dr. Salivador's chainsaw for the first time, all Leon does is say "Oh great, a chainsaw.' It's like he got a C on a test. "Oh great, a C." Same kind of emotion.

[darkvare]

What kind of connection do you need to use your 360 controller on your PC?
the 360 wired one is a usb but if you want to use the wireless one you can get this
http://cgi.ebay.com/XBOX360-WIRELESS-GAMING-RECIEVER-FOR-WINDOWS_W0QQitemZ120273490165QQihZ002QQcategoryZ13 9969QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
works for 4 controllers so you can play the simpsons for 4 player lol and there are cables to connect the ps2 controllers to pc rather easily

[Nick]

Is it just me or is Leon so cool he isn't afraid of anything? When you hear Dr. Salivador's chainsaw for the first time, all Leon does is say "Oh great, a chainsaw.' It's like he got a C on a test. "Oh great, a C." Same kind of emotion. I guess after you've killed hordes of zombies, dogs, crows, gigantic organic death beasts, and living plants you just stop caring. I mean, this is the guy who took out a gigantic 30ft crocodile, how can you compare a chainsaw to that?

[MartinSargent]

RE4 is fun and all, and RE5 will surely kick ass, but I prefer the older ones. I just love the survival horror feel. My favorite ones are probably REmake and RE2.

[Lobo Tommy]

I guess after you've killed hordes of zombies, dogs, crows, gigantic organic death beasts, and living plants you just stop caring. I mean, this is the guy who took out a gigantic 30ft crocodile, how can you compare a chainsaw to that?

Dr. Salivador has a potatoe sack on his head.

His face could be anything.

[darkvare]

Dr. Salivador has a potatoe sack on his head.

His face could be anything.

lol salivador it actually means droller is only salvador

[Cedar]

that sounds like it should be a new enemy

[Cedar]

Back on topic, RE4 was cool the game was really fun but i just felt they threw all the backstory to the crapper

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

Has anyone bothered to get the Typewriter? I might break this game back out to get it.

[Fathom Zero]

I got it.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

was it worth getting, I only have the GC version so I can't get the sweet outfit to go along with it.

[Guitar Woman]

No, it makes every kill completely unsatisfying.

The infinite rocket launcher is another matter, however. Get that one.

[Fathom Zero]

Yeah, it's kinda underwhelming.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

I got the infinite launcher. As much as I like cheesing through a game by blowing everything to smithereens I'd rather riddle em with bullets to make words.

[Guitar Woman]

They die in like, two shots. If you want to shoot the hell out of Ganados for elongated periods just get a TMP.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

I want to get the damn fuck shit ass laser cannon.

(Sorry about the cussing, 6 hours of the day I'm on at work. The other hour I'm drunk and stupid)

[gingerninja]

Knife runs are fun in the old RE games, but these new ones require gun use. Fair enough that you want to still do knife runs, but have you considered just playing the old ones that way? RE4 brought new fans to the series and it got one of the greatest receptions in modern gaming. While some hardcore fans may be disappointed that it doesn't allow knife runs, no one is stopping you from playing the old ones that way.
I know what you might say: "But I've played them that way already. It won't be the same!" Well if the gameplay (using only a knife) stays the same, then does it matter?