Russia bombs Georgia...

[pac-man]

...Atlanta in flames. Seriously, I'm sure everyone has heard about it. Russian warplanes have been bombing installations in and around the capital of Georgia to take out separatists, and now Condie Rice is urging them to back up off. For a second I figured the Ruskies were trying to put the old gang back together. I doubt this'll turn into a full-on conflict, but I'm just that much happier to live in this hemisphere.

[Colonel Flagg]

Timing sucks, right at the start of the Olympics; historically nations in conflict are urged to hold cease-fires during the games - not this time. :(

[Tadao]

America has kinda changed the rules of war.

[pac-man]

Never really looked at it that way. Fuck.

[Tadao]

Who you talking to? Me or Flagg

[pac-man]

You... I just didn't think of the precedent that the Iraq invasion set in correlation with the situation in Georgia. But, yeah, it's kind of hard to wag your finger at someone when you're just as guilty and occupying.

[Tadao]

Yeah, according this my bad ass country. You don't really need anyone's consent to invade another country. Many other rules have been changed too.

[Colonel Flagg]

Wow. You (Tadao) are absolutely right. And the US is protesting the invasion. How hypocritical. Maybe the Russians will take some Georgian civilians to a secure small base on the Black Sea and begin waterboarding them.

[El Blanco]

OK, ladies, if we're done with the drama. I know its easy to use the deaths of thousands as an easy tool to bash the current administration, but this actually more of Russia's "fuck you" to NATO and the West over Kosovo's independence.

I know, I know, why bring facts into an argument.

[Tadao]

Who's arguing against that? Cool you ego Captain America.

[MattJack]

so wait, are you taking Russia's side, Blanco?

[pac-man]

Any excuse to bash the current administration is a pot shot well worth taking, facts be damned. Truthiness is the way.

[Girl Drink Drunk]

And a whole lot of good it'll do at this point.

[pac-man]

Who's trying to accomplish good? Not the Bush administration, that's for sure.

EDIT: It seems as if the situation is escalating. What's the over-under on WWIII happening sometime soon?

[Colonel Flagg]

Georgian troops have withdrawn from the S. Ossetian capital, as a "gesture of good faith" (yeah, how about to stop getting the shit kicked out of them), so maybe this "intervention" will de-escalate as fast as it escalated. : pipedream

[El Blanco]

so wait, are you taking Russia's side, Blanco?

I didn't say that at all. Personally, I see this as another one of Putin's attempts to get the band back together, so to speak.

[VaporTrailx1]

EDIT: It seems as if the situation is escalating. What's the over-under on WWIII happening sometime soon?
I doubt anyone else will get involved simply due to Georgia's location. The Armenian's aren't really in any position to do anything. And I doubt NATO will even say much.

What ever happened with Chechnya anyways?

Also for more of a background on the whole thing watch the 45 minute documentary "Russia: Death of a Nation". It's on youtube, or at least used to be.

[Tadao]

What did that documentary have to do with the situation? I must have missed it. As far as anyone getting involved... there is oil involved.

[VaporTrailx1]

The doc was more of a background of Russia's situation in general after the fall of the Soviet Union. That's really about it, nothing specific.

[Psycho D]

Georgia got bombed? I hope the NASCAR tracks and Ludachris are OK.

[executioneer]

ok shut up

[Evil Robot]

The only oil pipeline in Europe that is NOT already controlled by Russia run through the south end of Tblisi. BP took a round-about way through Georgia in order to avoid Iran. If Russia took control of this pipeline, they could then shut ALL the pipes off and "oil-starve" the EU. This would put them in a prime position to "pull a Hitler" since the only way to get oil into the EU would be by ship, and they can easily blockade the tankers with the navy they now have.

[El Blanco]

That would be an outright act of war. Putin may have the balls for something like that down the line, when his country's economy is stronger, but not right now. He's too shrewd.

[VaporTrailx1]

I wouldn't be surprised if they went after that pipeline.

With Western missile defense systems being installed in Eastern Europe, and many former Warsaw Pact / Soviet states on their way to join NATO, Russia is pretty much getting backed into a corner. With Ukraine and Georgia expected to be admitted into NATO officially this December it seems like a clear motive.

That. Plus, I agree that they are not too happy with Kosovo's independence.

They really don't have too many useful allies left other than the Iranians I guess.

[Evil Robot]

They could achieve world domination with China's help.

[Tadao]

My gut tells me Putin isn't going for the oil, but for the life of me I can't figure out any other reason. It sure as hell isn't to claim more citizens.

[Tadao]

I figured it out!

Bush asked Putin, as a favor, to scare Americans into electing McCain.

[El Blanco]

Or maybe, just maybe, the Russians feel morally obligated to help out in OS. The more I read this thing, the more it occurs to me the Georgians aren't all that innocent.

[Tadao]

Yeah, the more I hear the President of Georgia talk, the more suspicious I am of him.

[El Blanco]

It seems that the people of OS enjoyed the same type of autonomy the people of Scotland have. Georgia has recently decided to violently oppose such independence.

Not that Putin wasn't licking his chops for the opportunity. Its just that the Georgians all but forced Russia to take action. Golden opportunity for him.

[Tadao]

I read a short bio on Mr Saakashvili and I'm starting to really not trust this guy. In the same way I wouldn't trust Saddam.

[VaporTrailx1]

the US is boycotting joint NATO-Russian naval exercises and it looks like Russia might be expelled from G-8 now.

[Colonel Flagg]

According to CNN, Nicolas Sarkozy successfully brokered a cease fire between Georgia and Russia. They'll retreat to positions they occupied pre-undeclared-police-action, and begin to try to resolve the situation as if no fighting ever happened.

There. All better.

[Tadao]

Haha, that was this morning. Later in the afternoon I believe that Russia's ambassador said that the peace keepers are gonna stay. While yes, they were there before the attack date, it was what was said by Russia to cause the attack, and we all know some one is gonna throw a rock because their whole life is destroyed now.

[pac-man]

This is the first I've heard about a resolution (albeit tenuous) since I went on vacation. Surely there are plenty of pissed off Georgians who'll make things rough, but what I'm really wondering is what kind of hard feelings the Russians will harbor against the U.S. due to what we've said (thanks again, VP Warmong.... I mean Cheney) and done (transporting Georgian troops). Not that I expect anything serious to come from those hard feelings, but still, it's not like America's foreign policy has won us any friends.

[El Blanco]

Ummm, what exactly was the US supposed to do?

Even if the Georgians started this off, the Russian response was way disproportionate and Georgia is still our ally. And the Russians were attacking Georgia's pipelines, which had no strategic value for the operation.

And Russia has had these feeling since the US recognized Kosovo. Lets not use them as a moral barometer.

[Dimnos]

I have to side with Blanco in that the more i read about it the less Georgia looks to be as innocent as it first did. And what about these guys in Abkahzian? They want to break free of Greorgia right? Do they want to be independant or join back up with Russia? Every time i read something it sounds like they dont even know what they want.

[Tadao]

I just watched Mr Saakashvili explain things to Glen Beck (I was flipping through when I saw him) and I now seriously believe that this guy decided to get big and squash the resistance to democracy in Georgia.

[VaporTrailx1]

"It strikes me as pretty strident rhetoric and probably fairly empty rhetoric," Gates said. "The truth of the matter is, Russia is not going to launch nuclear missiles at anybody. The Poles know that. We know it."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26253358


so. things are still brewing it looks.

[VaporTrailx1]

As of yesterday Russia cut all military ties with NATO.

[Geggy]

I figured it out!

Bush asked Putin, as a favor, to scare Americans into electing McCain.

Well considering the US and georgia have partipicated in joint military exercises back in july and the US have trained and armed georgia's troop, tell me the US didnt have anything to do with georgia's attack on russia's peace corp that provoked russia's attack and the declaration of martial law by georgia's president. Not to defend putin, but russia and US are clearly playing a real life game of Risk.

[Geggy]

Witness accounts state russian troop swooped in Ossetia to save civilians from georgia's bombing. Here's US mainstream media for you

Fox cuts off 12-year-old relating Georgian violence
Diane Sweet
Published: Saturday August 16, 2008

A 12-year-old American girl and her aunt found themselves in the middle of a bombing in Georgia this week while on a vacation to visit family members.

An ABC news affiliate reported, "Amanda Kokoeva likes to swim and hang out with friends in Walnut Creek, but what she went through just five days ago in South Ossetia shocked her and shook the world."

"On the 7th, we were in a cafe and then all of a sudden we heard a bunch of bombs going off and explosions and we got scared," Kokoeva said.

The ABC report continued, "Amanda was at the end of a month and a half long visit with relatives in South Ossetia when a battle broke out between Russia and Georgia. The fighting forced her to spend the night in her uncle's basement."

"Through all this there's explosions everywhere. It was really scary because I had never really heard these kinds of sounds in my life so loud and the whole sky would light up all the time," said Amanda.

ABC's report added, "Her uncle survived, but thousands of others did not. Laura says she was thankful the Russian troops were there to protect the Ossetians."

During an interview on Fox News they were describing how Russian soldiers saved them from the Georgian attack, and helped them get to an airport in Moscow where they were able to fly back home, but the Fox news host abruptly cut them off after just two minutes of recounting the events to go to a commercial break. As they are being cut off, Amanda's aunt says, "Yes, I know you do not want to hear this."

After returning from the commercial break, the Fox reporter gives Amanda's aunt just 30 seconds to speak before saying "As we all know, there are always gray areas in war."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Fox_News_cuts_to_commercial_as_0816.html

[pac-man]

Hey, even the folks at Fox News have to pay the bills :rolleyes:

[JJ_Maniac]

Yeah, if China was allied with them, it would both grant them access to a huge army and workforce, and could help them (Russia) invade the United States through Canada and the huge border. Down the line, I mean.

Also, the United States wouldn't run the risk of nuclear arms against a Russian prescence in Canada because of the fallout the wind would bring down into the USA. (I hope)

(Response to Evil Robot)

[Dimnos]

Yeah, if China was allied with them, it would both grant them access to a huge army and workforce, and could help them (Russia) invade the United States through Canada and the huge border. Down the line, I mean.

Also, the United States wouldn't run the risk of nuclear arms against a Russian prescence in Canada because of the fallout the wind would bring down into the USA. (I hope)

(Response to Evil Robot)

Because we are so quick to drop a nuke on people? :confused:

If and I mean IF they decided to invade us through Canada, they would have to load up on boats just to get there. Boat that can sink to bottom of the ocean. I guess they could take planes, but planes have a habit of falling out of the sky for no reason as well.

[JJ_Maniac]

Good point.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

Putin on the Fritz

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/28/russia.georgia.cold.war/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Putin is now stating the U.S. goaded Georgia to attack to conspire with a u.s. presidential candidate.

[Tadao]

That crazy nut job, no one is gonna believe that. I can't wait for all the world nations to defend us.

[VaporTrailx1]

Yah. This is keeping the world's attention away from Iraq for the moment.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Russian generals are throwing a bitchfit over U.S. sending aid supplies, CNN said

[VaporTrailx1]

Yep. This isn't really looking too well. The Ruskies have been making comments about "going beyond diplomacy", and saying that the missile defense system in Poland "cannot go unpunished.".

They've also got their bomber patrols back online again after a 15 year hiatus. Tu-95's and Tu-22(Backfire variant) seem to be on regular patrols now with known intrusions into Canadian and Alaskan airspace. Surprisingly not much activity in the North Atlantic yet (at least not that the public knows about).

I think Cold War 2 is almost officially on.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Vladimir Putin's END WAR

[Tadao]

I highly doubt this i the beginning of a cold war. I do think it is a start to a set precedent in something much bigger that Russia is planning.

Georgia
???
Profit

[Chojin]

I don't have any clue how that meme got started.

[DevilWearsPrada]

What meme?

[pac-man]

South Park underwear gnomes.

[Chojin]

(list)
????
Profit

[DevilWearsPrada]

Jim's a pretty guy!

Back on rails, somebody's gunning down russian journalists

[pac-man]

South Park underwear gnomes.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Gnomes_plan.png/180px-Gnomes_plan.png

The underpants gnomes business model:

Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

And thus the meme began...

[DevilWearsPrada]

This meme is lame. At least YTP was wacky last fall.

[Tadao]

Lame, meme, or whatever. The fact still remains that Georgia is only the first phase for Russia to reach their final phase. Profit.

[DevilWearsPrada]

I think they're coercing a NATO country to retaliate so that they and China can start a large scale conflict

[Tadao]

I wouldn't think China would want a large scale conflict, they have all the money.

[DevilWearsPrada]

By capitalist reasoning, I'm almost positive they have the right to repo the U.S.

[Tadao]

Handing the U.S. the bill would mean that the U.S. simply doesn't pay and says, come get it. They are happily using it against us to make sure that we don't interfere in their nefarious chinaman ways. I doubt they want more land mass, they sure as hell don't want more people, they only want Taiwan for revenge on Chiang Kai-shek. So really I can't think of one reason China would want to be involved in a large scale conflict.

[DevilWearsPrada]

Because it'd be interesting :(

[pac-man]

If you read more Tom Clancy, you would know that it would not be interesting.

[DevilWearsPrada]

tom clancies are for playing

[VaporTrailx1]

Red October was a great book/movie

[Geggy]

Thought this was an interesting read

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20081008/cm_csm/ytskhovrebova;_ylt=AqjzM4RP5OeeYJ4gI.hRu.Ws0NUE

[Tadao]

It is. Thank you.