Welcome to the USSR

[VaporTrailx1]

I think we may have just witnessed the birth of the United States Socialist Republic.

fuck.

BTW anyone see Russia is going to start using Cuba for strategic bombers? And our spineless Socialist Prez will do nothing.

We are fucked.

---end of message---

[kahljorn]

BACK IN THE USSR BOY

[Evil Robot]

IN SOVIET AMERICA, HEALTHCARE REFORMS YOU.

[Evil Robot]

I just think it's ironic that the workers party actually seems less radical then the current administration.

[kahljorn]

YOU DONT KNOW HOW LUCKY YOU ARE

[Tadao]

Totally radical administration dude.

[ZeldaQueen]

BACK IN THE US, BACK IN THE US, BACK IN THE USSR!

[Evil Robot]

THIS COUNTRY SURE COULD USE BAPE RIGHT NOW.

[Dimnos]

IN SOVIET AMERICA, HEALTHCARE REFORMS YOU.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

But no... Really... AIG is passing out bonuses with our tax payer dollars and are making DAMN sure the government cant tell them what to do with the money they took from us and gave to them. AIG is doing this to prove the point that we are NOT in a totalitarian socialist government. AIG is passing out bonuses for YOUR FREEDOM!.

[kahljorn]

Ugh. You know its kind of scary that THE GUBERMENT IS GONNA STEP IN AND MEDIATE THIS SHIT, but its even worse that these companies give out such huge bonuses and severance packages. Especially when its for people like that home depot ceo who fucked his company into the ground and still received a multi billion dollar severance package.

I don't really see what is so capitalistic about getting a bunch of money for being a failure.

[VaporTrailx1]

you now realize we are fucked either way. we are completely shit outta luck

[Evil Robot]

Well at least the American Empire won't go down violently, just a slow progression into vagrancy. Like a herion addict.

[kahljorn]

I'd rather have the guberment step in for a few cases until we can have more economic safeguards against that kind of stupid shit then let them get away with it so we can maintain the guise of being pure capitalists.

Capitalism has gone through many different forms. We had to build in safeguards so that people couldn't monopolize. This is just another step. ;\

I think the system of ownership has changed enough to merit these changes because these business owners aren't only accountable to themselves and t heir own investments, but to stock holders and other interest parties as well. In a way, corporate is just representations of these parties ;\

[Dimnos]

We should have just never let the government "bail out" anyone. Yea the companies would have flopped from all the bonuses and severance packages but after they went down other companies and investors would know not to do that kind of shit. Hmmm... we can keep our money here in the company and stay open for business or we can give it to this retard who has only hurt our company... This crap would have continued and some more companies would have gone down before people started getting it but we would have been a LOT closer to working this out. Now all the execs will expect a huge bonus even if it drives the company in the ground because the government will just pay for it all. Basically we have gone against capitalism to promote capitalism? :\

[Dimnos]

AIG said they had to pay these bonuses because they were contractually obligated to and that if they didnt the execs would go off to other jobs where they would get bonuses... WTF is that shit?!?! If they didnt get out bail out money they would be OUT OF A JOB anyway... At least this way they got to keep their jobs! Oh and I would really like to know who really thinks hiring these failures and giving them bonuses is going to do anything good for their company that they would give them a job. Really I want to know who those geniuses are. I bet they dont exist, especially in this economy. They were just a negotiation tactic used to secure bonuses. God this shit pisses me off!

[Colonel Flagg]

AIG said they had to pay these bonuses because they were contractually obligated to and that if they didnt the execs would go off to other jobs where they would get bonuses... WTF is that shit?!?! If they didnt get out bail out money they would be OUT OF A JOB anyway... At least this way they got to keep their jobs! Oh and I would really like to know who really thinks hiring these failures and giving them bonuses is going to do anything good for their company that they would give them a job. Really I want to know who those geniuses are. I bet they dont exist, especially in this economy. They were just a negotiation tactic used to secure bonuses. God this shit pisses me off!

Deer Fedrul Gubmint:

Hi how R U I m fine. Lisn, we had sum trubl her with sum banx failin and whatnot and some peepul kinda u no, not doin stuff right an such. Anyhoo, cud u giv me sum muny - not to much, may be only 100 million billion dollars or so. THX!

AIG

[Grislygus]

POR OLE GLEN BECK, THE LIBERALS ARE IN CHARGE AGAIN


Bu-HAW-HAW-HAWWWWWWW, the-the-the libbberals, an an I jus love my country so much, now I gotta wait a whole four ye-hee-hee-ars before the pendulum of public support swings back to conservatism, ba-ha-a-a-aw, *snivvle* I'M JUST WOOOOOOOORREEEEEEED AWWHAWHAWHAW bout the DEMOCRATS're gonna raise taxes an get us BLOWN UUUUUUUP I-Hi-hi-hi'm gonna tell my MOOOOM

[Evil Robot]

I just did some quick math to figure out that they could have served about 50 million meals to starving African children with the money AIG used for bonuses.

[kahljorn]

Yea, I'm pretty annoyed that Obama's policies so far have been to give a bunch of money away. Especially since there doesn't seem to be much of a plan on how it is supposed to help the economy. I don't really understand how we have all this money to spend ;\ Isn't it a bunch of loans or something?

I think the reason why we had to bail out these companies though is that, theoretically, if we didn't then our economy would shit itself.

What really annoys me the most though is that AIG already used their last bit of bail out (or whatever it was) money to pay off some of their ceos because they had CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS TO MEET THAT WERE MADE BEFORE THE AGREEMENTS WERE MADE WITH THE GUBERMENT SO THEY COULDNT BE RESTRICTED but now they are just doing the same thing again four months later ;\

This crap would have continued and some more companies would have gone down before people started getting it but we would have been a LOT closer to working this out. Now all the execs will expect a huge bonus even if it drives the company in the ground because the government will just pay for it all.

People are getting it. I mean, this story has outraged pretty much everyone, and congress and THE PRESIDENT are stepping in to pimp slap them. From what I understand either the company has to give the money back, or congress is going to tax them for an extra 187 billion dollars (the amount of money they are giving out in bonuses).

[Dimnos]

CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATIONS TO MEET THAT WERE MADE BEFORE THE AGREEMENTS WERE MADE WITH THE GUBERMENT SO THEY COULDNT BE RESTRICTED but now they are just doing the same thing again four months later ;\

AIG is full of shit for saying this. Companies, big and small, renegotiate contracts due to financial problems ALL THE TIME.

People are getting it. I mean, this story has outraged pretty much everyone, and congress and THE PRESIDENT are stepping in to pimp slap them. From what I understand either the company has to give the money back, or congress is going to tax them for an extra 187 billion dollars (the amount of money they are giving out in bonuses).

Yea I know :\ It just gets my blood boiling to think about it all.

[VaporTrailx1]

Our Economy reminds me of the Terri Shiavo case.



But anyways...anyone realize that we owe China a shitload of cash and they don't accept bank notes. They only accept REAL MONEY, you know silver and gold, what our economy used to be based on. They may be commies, but they're fuckin smart. Unless we do something, they have our Guberment by the balls.

[Tadao]

What if we simply refused to pay them back.

[VaporTrailx1]

That is a great idea. What could they really do?

[Tadao]

They could call us during our dinner :(

[kahljorn]

china already owns most of america so its not really that big of a deal ;\

[VaporTrailx1]

What if we just renamed the country and pretend we formed a new one. Then technically all contracts and treaties the US has ever signed would be void, and we wouldn't have to take anyone's shit. It's almost as genius as an international pyramid scheme.

[Dimnos]

What if we just renamed the country and pretend we formed a new one. Then technically all contracts and treaties the US has ever signed would be void, and we wouldn't have to take anyone's shit. It's almost as genius as an international pyramid scheme.

We could become the United Provinces of America. GO UPA!

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

UPA FTW

[Evil Robot]

The word "Province" is too gay for Americans.

[kahljorn]

WHAT ABOUT PROVINCHE

SOUNDS SMUG ENOUGH FOR YOU HOLLYWOOD TYPES

[Evil Robot]

"territories" would be more badass syntax. People from Boston would ask what "Terror Tree" your from. I think we should divide the country into quadrants. Make St. Louis the capital for geographic reasons and have the 0,0 of the quadrant in the middle of the new white houses roof.

[ZeldaQueen]

That is a great idea. What could they really do?
They could refuse to let American corporations use their cheap manual labor to make cheap plastic toys and Walmart merchandise. Our economy would crumple within a week.

[Tadao]

We have Mexico still.

[ZeldaQueen]

They very well might look to China as an example. >:

[Tadao]

If they had money and a sizable army. But the don't, so they can't.

[ZeldaQueen]

Never underestimate the power of crazy people in large numbers.

[Tadao]

That has nothing to do with it. STOP MAKING SHIT UP JUST TO TALK.

[Kitsa]

Tadao, I thought you were all mellow and nice now.

[Tadao]

Only to the wimps. She can take a hit way better than some of those pussies.

[VaporTrailx1]

what the fuck happened to the bunnies?

[Kitsa]

life's so much easier when you learn that when someone hits you, you hit them back twice as hard.

[Evil Robot]

Kitsas right, just ask an Israeli.

[ZeldaQueen]

Only to the wimps. She can take a hit way better than some of those pussies.
Thanks, I think. :\

[Kitsa]

I'm wearing my Starbucks Tel Aviv shirt right now.

[Skulhedface]

I'm not too up to date on current events so feel free to flame me if any of this is irrelevant, but the fact of the matter is, if a business needs to rely on the government to stay afloat, doesn't that mean it's giving the government the final say-so? It's almost like an adoption, really.

Besides, how fair is it that mismanagement be rewarded by billions of dollars in bailout money, and the same manager that ran the company into the ground gets a fabulous cash prize?

I'm not looking at the bigger picture because, if Right Wing Talk Radio is to be believed, looking at the bigger picture leads to endless slippery slope fallacies (Look at this AIG stuff OMG communism!!111) So I look at it like, why should my taxes go to a company that's going to sink anyway? If a CEO gets a golden parachute, let it be for competence, not because we opened up our wallets to throw them a lifesaver.

[ZeldaQueen]

I'm not looking at the bigger picture because, if Right Wing Talk Radio is to be believed, looking at the bigger picture leads to endless slippery slope fallacies (Look at this AIG stuff OMG communism!!111)

You look at the big picture and you'll see the ice caps melting and the sun burning out and all of humanity dying. It's dead depressing. :(

And it seems to me that no one was screaming "COMMUNISM!" and "UNFAIR!" until it was the rich that started getting taxed. Like they suddenly realized how the country gets stuff funded. Idiots. >:

[kahljorn]

its not really the taxes that make it communistic ;o but i guess that might have some kinda influence

[ZeldaQueen]

Paying taxes leans towards socialism, which people get mixed up with Communism. Our country uses a mix of socialism and capitalism, to balance each other out. If it were only one or the other, things would be worse.

[Tadao]

Social Security

[kahljorn]

I think it could be argued that taxes don't really control productivity *shrug* but yea we do have a mixed economy.

still i dont think its raising taxes on rich people that gets people's panties in a bunch.

[Big McLargehuge]

I look forward to the day that the U.S. can be honestly called a social democracy. I love free health care and college.

[Colonel Flagg]

I love free health care and college.

Good luck with that. :rolleyes

[Dimnos]

still i dont think its raising taxes on rich people that gets people's panties in a bunch.

Right, Its rich people getting fat bonus checks payed for by the taxpayer that gets peoples panties in a bunch. As far as communism, people were screaming communism and socialism as soon their was talk about a bail out. When big companies (or even little ones) begin to collapse smaller companies or competitors buy them out and take over. Or they can opt to sell portions of their company so they become smaller and more stable. This is how its been done for decades and how it should still be done. If one company gets a bail out how many more are then going to want one? Who is to say who should and shouldnt get one? Who is to say how much they should get? Also we noticed with the whole AIG thing, where is the oversight? Should the government be allowed to tell them what they can and cant do with the money? Is it now their money? To do with what they wish? Or should the government be able to step in and tell them what they can do with it? If the government does step in, how much can they step in? Do they just take over? If they do how could any other company compete with the government who they have to pay taxes to?

[ZeldaQueen]

It's a fine line to be sure, but there's still huge gaps between what we've got and what the USSR had (which is of course the first thing that springs to mind whenever people think "communism").

[kahljorn]

*shrug* Only silly fucks talk about communism anyway. it's best to just be charitable with the words they use...

As for what you said, Dimnos: yea. But i would point out that if the guberment steps in it probably wouldn't mean: A) they don't have to pay taxes and B) they'll be more profitable or provide higher quality service to the point that competing companies won't be able to compete with them.

[VaporTrailx1]

Why don't we just have the goverment start a series of factories across the country. These factories will produce toothpicks. And the goal is merely to constantly build toothpicks. forever. This way we will have jobs for everyone. Maybe we can build a giant something out of toothpicks which will produce more work. and then people will pay to see the giant toothpick structure. That's how you stimulate the fucking economy.

[Tadao]

It's a fucking start, because sitting around bitching sure as hell aint fucking working.

[ZeldaQueen]

Why don't we just have the goverment start a series of factories across the country. These factories will produce toothpicks. And the goal is merely to constantly build toothpicks. forever. This way we will have jobs for everyone. Maybe we can build a giant something out of toothpicks which will produce more work. and then people will pay to see the giant toothpick structure. That's how you stimulate the fucking economy.
Yay for Lewis Black. He should advise the government once in a while.

[Dimnos]

As for what you said, Dimnos: yea. But i would point out that if the guberment steps in it probably wouldn't mean: A) they don't have to pay taxes and B) they'll be more profitable or provide higher quality service to the point that competing companies won't be able to compete with them.

Thats exactly what Im saying. Companies (that had bad business practices) get taken over by the government and dont have to pay taxes and become more profitable while other companies (that had good business practices) still have to pay taxes and now have to compete with a government run company. They (the good companies) cant compete with that and get ruined for doing to right thing all along? Its like deciding to clear a train wreck up by ramming it with another train.

[birdshine]

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm208/birdshine/090414_cartoon_600.jpg

I think that comic is pretty funny. I find the talk of socialism pretty wild for two reasons. One is that we've been increasing our spending dramatically for the past 8 years, we just finally have a president who realizes you have to pay for all of that eventually. Health care reform, while expensive now, is actually going to lead to huge fiscal benefits. If health care continue to become more expensive at the rate it has been (which it will if we do nothing) pretty soon we'll spent more on Medicare and Medicaid then the national GDP. We've got to do something now or else that problem is going to explode.

The second reason is this general fear of socialism, why? Don't we all love our socialist programs? Libraries, police stations, fire stations, social security, medicare, medicaid? Aren't these things massively popular? So we do we still go "eek, socialism!"

I think this bailout is kind of ridiculous. It breaks my heart because we're already hugely in debt and I thought Obama might actually come to the budget with a realistic attitude, especially because we're sending the money to people who made their own troubles :\ Unfortunately we live in such a culture that every one of these business owes money to everyone else and if they go bankrupt everyone goes bankrupt, then good luck trying to pay off the deficit George Bush left us with :|

Its a sad state of affairs.

[Dimnos]

Ok... First, your cartoon is full of shit. People are not crying socialism because of his tax rates. People are crying socialism because the federal bailouts are a direct contradiction of capitalism. You make poor business decisions and run your company into the ground, your company goes under or gets bought out.

Second, our spending has been a bit ridiculous, to say the least, for a while. But to claim that we finally have a president who realizes this is moronic. Here we are in more debt than ever and the man approves an $800 billion plus spending package. "We are in debt, lets spend more!" How many times has this worked for anyone?

Third, I hardly consider libraries, police and fire services socialist programs. These are civic programs that may or may not be provided for by any government. Social security on the other had is a failing institution paying money to people who didnt pay into it. If I had the choice I would quit paying for it this very second. Anyone under the age of 50 who says otherwise is a fool.

Fourth, points you try to make in your first and third paragraph contradict each other. Either you believe Obama grasps our economic situation or he doesnt. Which is it?

[birdshine]

I would love to see this companies burn but I don't know if its realistic. The systemic risk is so large that if these business went bankrupt and were unable to pay off their debts then hundreds of other business would go bankrupt and be unable to pay off their debts and that cycle continues. Meanwhile the people that do have money to give loans are not going to give loans because they don't think any ones going to be able to pay them back. Ideologically, as a capitalist, I'd love to say just let them fell but if you do that everything is just going to fall down around our ears and if the economy has a complete fallout like that we have no chance in hell paying off our deficit, millions of people would be out of work and international markets would also crumble.

When the Economy is in recession there isn't less money. There is the same amount of money its just not circulating because everyone is scared to spend it because they're afraid they're going to lose their job or their house. Spending your way out of a recession is exactly what you need to be because you need to get all of that money circulating again so you need to make it "okay." The classic example of this is the New Deal. I know, I know, the popular thing to say now is its not the New Deal that killed hte depression it was WW2 but the reason why WW2 ended the depression was for that same reason - a huge spike in federal spending. We just spent it on weapons and not highways. Also all of Western Europes production abilities were demolished leaving us a huge gap to fill but I doubt we're going to start bombing Europe to get out of this one.

I hold by what I said about spending money on health care reform saving us money in the long term because if we leave health care the way it is the expense will continue to explode. Whether you like social security, medicare, or medicade is a moot point. The government now has an obligation to pay it out and they will. If we keep the healthcare system we have now pretty soon we won't have any money for Defense, Education, or anything other then Medicare and Medicade and we'll be fucked. No one thought long term when we were writing and signing these bills but we need to start now.

e: Don't take the comic too seriously, its a comic and there are plenty of people crying socialism because of taxes. Taxed Enough Already? Obviously not considering the size of our debt.

[Tadao]

we just finally have a president who realizes you have to pay for all of that eventually.

A stupid blow job and everyone seems to forget what Clinton did.

[birdshine]

No I recognize Clinton left us with a surplus but it doesn't matter now because Dubya pissed it away.

[Dimnos]

A stupid blow job and everyone seems to forget what Clinton did.

Paula Jones? :confused:

[Tadao]

He made fatties feel good about themselves.

[Dimnos]

Yes keeping the money circulating is going to help the economy; but giving an ass ton of money out of peoples pockets to a bunch of ass pipes with zero fiscal responsibility is just irresponsible. Big companies with a lot of debt go under, get chopped up and then the pieces get bought up by smaller companies every day. Its what makes the world of capitalism go 'round. Sometimes these big companies can sell off small pieces of their company to actually make enough money to get out of debt and survive on their own. In some cases the "parent" company bounces back so well they are then able to buy back the portions of their company they had to sell off. While they are not the only ones to do so, the phone companies do this all the time. As far as these companies causing a domino effect had they gone down... maybe, maybe not. In the business world their are winners and losers. If you make good business decisions you succeed. If you make bad business decisions you fail. And what about their competitors? The ones who did practice good business and succeeded in keeping their companies afloat. They now have to compete with basically the government. How are they expected to survive? They have to go down and get shit canned because they acted responsibly with their companies and resources and didnt need the government to step in on their behalf? Basically we are punishing hard work and rewarding irresponsibility. Executives who managed responsibly begin to ask "Why the hell bother" and turn to corrupt and bad business practices themselves. If we are not going to allow companies to fail, and are going to bail them out with money from our own pockets, we should require their shareholders vote out current executives and vote in new ones. If for no other reason than to send a message that bad business practices will not be tolerated.

Health care reform is something that need to be looked at. We should have spent that $800 billion on that.

[Dimnos]

Fat girls need love too.

[Tadao]

Dude, he totally made biggums feel like they were on par with Marilyn Monroe.

[Dimnos]

Vn1eqHY4QeU

[Colonel Flagg]

I'd bet in the smoke-filled rooms surrounding the halls of Congress there were plenty of "Atta Guy!"'s, especially considering the penchant many Representatives and Senators have fof congressional pages. :orgasm

[Tadao]

Hahaha Dimnos, after I sent that I was thinking about that scene.

[Colonel Flagg]

I wish I could see it >: damned firewall.

[Tadao]

Hahaha Flagg it's the Family Guy where Clinton gets 4 huge women in his limo (after judging a cankle contest) and turn off the air conditioning to have a contest to see who gets a bead of sweat race to thier buttcrack first.

Family Guy did an awesome job of their portrayal of him.

[birdshine]

Yes keeping the money circulating is going to help the economy; but giving an ass ton of money out of peoples pockets to a bunch of ass pipes with zero fiscal responsibility is just irresponsible. Big companies with a lot of debt go under, get chopped up and then the pieces get bought up by smaller companies every day. Its what makes the world of capitalism go 'round. Sometimes these big companies can sell off small pieces of their company to actually make enough money to get out of debt and survive on their own. In some cases the "parent" company bounces back so well they are then able to buy back the portions of their company they had to sell off. While they are not the only ones to do so, the phone companies do this all the time. As far as these companies causing a domino effect had they gone down... maybe, maybe not. In the business world their are winners and losers. If you make good business decisions you succeed. If you make bad business decisions you fail. And what about their competitors? The ones who did practice good business and succeeded in keeping their companies afloat. They now have to compete with basically the government. How are they expected to survive? They have to go down and get shit canned because they acted responsibly with their companies and resources and didnt need the government to step in on their behalf? Basically we are punishing hard work and rewarding irresponsibility. Executives who managed responsibly begin to ask "Why the hell bother" and turn to corrupt and bad business practices themselves. If we are not going to allow companies to fail, and are going to bail them out with money from our own pockets, we should require their shareholders vote out current executives and vote in new ones. If for no other reason than to send a message that bad business practices will not be tolerated.

Health care reform is something that need to be looked at. We should have spent that $800 billion on that.
I hate to say it but this is kind of a moot point because no one wants to buy up these companies. These toxic assets and credit swaps are total trash they have negative values they're completely unusable. When these companies fail, no one benefits. No one gets goods for cheap and turns it around, no one picks up valuable assets, it just leaves a giant hole in the economy where there used to be money spent and it scares everyone it doesn't touch because its happened to people they thought would never fail so they dont think anyone can pay them back. This government is buying up these toxic assets so the companies can exist to pay off their debts. Hell, we let Lehman Brothers fall and it was a huge catastrphy. It immediately killed AIG and other business. No one wanted to buy their crappy "assets" so the government ended up giving them 2 dollars a share. The problem is these people fucked up so bad there is no way of profiting on it, only minimizing the damage. The Free Market could not possibly heal this wound without us entering another depression.

The Government isnt going to continue to run these business forever giving them the edge over competition they're going to hold on to these shares until theyre worth something again and then sell them back to the private sector.

[Colonel Flagg]

Hahaha Flagg it's the Family Guy where Clinton gets 4 huge women in his limo (after judging a cankle contest) and turn off the air conditioning to have a contest to see who gets a bead of sweat race to thier buttcrack first.

Family Guy did an awesome job of their portrayal of him.

AWESOME!!! :lol

[Dimnos]

I hate to say it but this is kind of a moot point because no one wants to buy up these companies. These toxic assets and credit swaps are total trash they have negative values they're completely unusable. When these companies fail, no one benefits. No one gets goods for cheap and turns it around, no one picks up valuable assets, it just leaves a giant hole in the economy where there used to be money spent and it scares everyone it doesn't touch because its happened to people they thought would never fail so they dont think anyone can pay them back. This government is buying up these toxic assets so the companies can exist to pay off their debts. Hell, we let Lehman Brothers fall and it was a huge catastrphy. It immediately killed AIG and other business. No one wanted to buy their crappy "assets" so the government ended up giving them 2 dollars a share. The problem is these people fucked up so bad there is no way of profiting on it, only minimizing the damage. The Free Market could not possibly heal this wound without us entering another depression.

The Government isnt going to continue to run these business forever giving them the edge over competition they're going to hold on to these shares until theyre worth something again and then sell them back to the private sector.

Lehman Brothers made their own grave. First by handing out so many subprime loans, then when those loans started to bite them in the ass they chose NOT to sell of portions of their company. Lehman Brothers were made offers from different companies all over the world for portions of their company but they chose not to sell or in some cases stalled so long that the offers were retracted. Then when in the face of bankruptcy it was suggested to them that they cut back on the multi-million dollar bonuses they were paying to their executives, they opted not to do this and effectively drove the nails into their own coffin. After Lehman Brothers filled for bankruptcy people lost confidence in similar companies, as they should, and AIG stock went down. In the world of capitalism you take risks and you find yourself with either a gain or a loss. They tried to manipulate the system and lost. You cant start crying when things dont go your way. Now... AIG got a bailout, why not Lehman Brothers? Do we just not care that much about them? Do we just not have the money to bail them out? Or do we just not want to? What makes AIG so special that they get a hand out for the same bad business practices?

[kahljorn]

I read somewhere recently that part of the reason the first depression got so bad was because the president at the time, I think it was woodrow wilson, chose not to put any more money into the economy and just stopped spending ;\

[Colonel Flagg]

Herbert Hoover

[kahljorn]

:lol thats right i remember thinking that he SUCKED the life out of the economy :(

HE DAMMED IT UP