Water on the moon? [Archive]

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 03:19 PM

:O I couldn't tell if this story was a joke. A STARTLING DISCOVERY HAS BEEN MADE BY DR. SUNSHINE.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1215721/Water-moon--Indias-lunar-mission-detects-it.html

"
A manned Moon base could become a reality within 20 years after scientists revealed today there are large quantities of water on the surface of the Earth's satellite.
The discovery increases the chances that humans may one day live permanently on the Moon inside protective domes, mining the rocks and dust for water to drink and power spacecrafts.

The scientific discovery made by the Indian lunar mission Chandrayaan-1 was announced by Nasa today.
'Widespread water has been detected on the surface of the Moon. None of us had expected this 10 years ago,' Nasa's Carle Pieters said.
...
"

Fathom Zero

Sep 24th, 2009, 03:30 PM

Daily Mail. THE DAILY MAIL.

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 03:35 PM

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Water+found+on+the+moon&aq=f&aqi=&oq=&fp=ac72bcecad7dd685

Fathom Zero

Sep 24th, 2009, 03:49 PM

Okay, there you go.

Given that the Moon is just a chunk of rock smashed out of something else, (supposedly), I don't think that this'll lead to anything. They also found ice on Mars, not that that actually led to anything.

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 03:54 PM

I don't even know what to say in response to that.

Fathom Zero

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:00 PM

What do you want from me? I flipped the fuck out when I found out there was ice on Mars and no one gave a damn. I thought it would change the course of humanity.

Oh well. It's more up to the scientists to find purpose and reason for things like that. I don't think I'm qualified to be even the least bit excited about this.

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:00 PM

I think you're right. Will a moderator please delete this thread? Thanks :O

When did they find ice on mars? last year?

Are we supposed to have mars margaritas already? Should there already be a space station there?

also finding ice is a little bit different than what has been found here... its not just ice, but water in the soil everywhere and it has been proposed by doctor jessica sunshine that water can actually be created in the universe by solar winds bombarding moon particles meaning we could potentially make our own water in space using this sort of technology. but what-EV.
it also challenges everything idiot americans said about the moon and everything else in the universe because they didn't even check their assumptions.

are you aware of the fact that for a long time science considered the universe to be basically dead, lifeless and infertile because it was dry and there was no water and water was this rare elixer found mostly on earth?

Tadao

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:06 PM

I think what the excitement about water/ice on something other than earth is that we might find microscopic life in it. Hopefully organisms that we have never seen before. Hopefully ones that wont kill us.

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:08 PM

yea, plus it will make it a lot easier to colonize other planets and live in space.

Fathom Zero

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:11 PM

Oui oui, if water exists, life (as we know it) should exist, as well.

I know, Kahl. I know it takes a long time for practical use or research to come of it. And happy I am that such progress or whatever is taking place.

But as an American, I am well within my God-given right to be ignorant, praise Jesus.

Tadao

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:16 PM

The thing about Mars is that it's probably way hard to retrieve the water. I'm sure we can send a moisture collecting satellite to the moon and back easily.

Fathom Zero

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:20 PM

It doesn't really have the kind of atmosphere required to keep the planet warm enough for fluid water, if it has one at all. I dunno. I must've skipped that day of physical science class.

Maybe we'll have delicious moonwater soft drinks. In a few years.

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:25 PM

The thing about Mars is that it's probably way hard to retrieve the water. I'm sure we can send a moisture collecting satellite to the moon and back easily.

Well according to the technology they are discussing in that article they could just like stick a shitload of hydrogen loaded rocks in space near mars, let it be bombarded by solar winds, and collect it at a later date. No need to go to earth's moon...

Tadao

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:29 PM

I've bee trying to understand the science talk since it popped up on yahoo news, but I think they are talking about a mist like thing.

""When we say 'water on the moon,' we are not talking about lakes, oceans or even puddles. Water on the moon means molecules of water and hydroxyl (hydrogen and oxygen) that interact with molecules of rock and dust specifically in the top millimetres of the moon's surface," Pieters said in a statement."

I think I saw something where the noticed it cause condensation on satellites started to collect or something like that. But fuck if I know. Maybe in a few days it will become more clear what is going on and I can go back to looking at the stars knowing that USA RULES!

Tadao

Sep 24th, 2009, 04:30 PM

Well according to the technology they are discussing in that article they could just like stick a shitload of hydrogen loaded rocks in space near mars, let it be bombarded by solar winds, and collect it at a later date. No need to go to earth's moon...

Cool! I'd rather look at Mars water rather than earths moon water.

Dimnos

Sep 24th, 2009, 05:24 PM

A manned Moon base could become a reality within 20 years after scientists revealed today there are large quantities of water on the surface of the Earth's satellite.

Dr Sunshine said a two litre bottle of lunar earth would only provide enough water to fill the pipette of a medicine bottle.

Large quantities?

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/14apr_Moonwater.htm

We were already talking about this in '05. Not to mention the American and Indian space programs pretty much work hand in hand these days.

executioneer

Sep 24th, 2009, 07:11 PM

giant sips are what you take, water on the moon
i hope my straw don't break, water on the moon

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 07:27 PM

*sigh* let me try to break down that webpage you sent compared with this story:

For one, everything in that story was theory. They had no "proof". If you read the story carefully, everything is inconclusive and at the end it says, "in 2008 nasa will be sending out another satelite to settle the question once and for all."
Secondly, they are SPECULATING that the water on the moon was caused by COMETS/asteroids which had water bombarding the Earth (cause that's where they think water came from on earth) and the moon.
but its all theory and guesses. They had no proof, and didn't even have reliable images. You know what they had? According to that website, they caught some glimpses of "Reflections" WHICH COULD ONLY MAYBE MEAN ICE.

In the new story jessica sunshine speculates that sunshine makes water in outspace my bombarding hydrogen particles because sunshine/solar wind contains oxygen or something. That's different. yea and then this satelite is like better than the other ones and there were like three of them and the data i guess is better
so thar ya go.

kahljorn

Sep 24th, 2009, 11:57 PM

this is kind of like if somebody found an alien body and spacecraft and everybody saw pictures of it and it was in the news and people were like, "Big deal. We've known aliens existed for years Just look at these stories I've read www.conspiracyalienwebsite.com. I'll be more surprised never."

Dimnos

Sep 25th, 2009, 01:29 PM

No its more like... Yeah there is possibly water on the moon. Why spend billions of dollars going there to find out? Oh the Indians are going there just to see if they can? Sure tell them about the water and give them information so they can find out for us. :|

kahljorn

Sep 25th, 2009, 07:56 PM

uuuhhhh ok. Why spend billions trying to perform fusion or make that gigantic collider thing that they built? Why send probes around the galaxy to scan jupiter and its moons and mars and have gigantic telescopes and shit and nasa and everything? Why then make documentaries and websites about these things that people pretend to be interested and then proceed to the scorn the science and research that produced those materials?

Why have a scientific method when we can just guess things about the universe and hope that they are true. We should just be religious and spend our money on the church because jesus will take care of us.

kahljorn

Sep 25th, 2009, 08:02 PM

"No more missions to space," Dimnos.

The news comes a day after it was also revealed that large quantities of water had been found on the surface of the Moon.
It means a manned base on the Earth's satellite could now become a reality within 20 years.

The discovery increases the chances of humanity living on the lunar surface inside protective domes, mining the rocks and dust for water to drink and power spacecrafts.

Widespread water has been detected on the surface of the Moon. None of us had expected this 10 years ago,' Nasa's Carle Pieters said.

What a waste of money hiring this guy :rolleyes

The water comes and goes during the lunar day.

"water is being continuously formed on the moon"

etc. you know some other differences is that they thought that water and ice were only around the craters. Furthermore, this discovery explains how water might've gotten on earth, as well, and add to our knowledge about how planets are formed...

whatever though ultimately its not worth the billions of dollars

Dimnos

Sep 25th, 2009, 11:53 PM

Yes. Because that is what I said. :lol

Why spend the money going to the moon for water. When you could say... up date and improve the Hubble? Or just about any other project than going to the moon for water. Its not like we are exactly short on it here.

kahljorn

Sep 26th, 2009, 04:17 AM

Why build telescopes to look into space when we can just look up at night?

Why look for life on other plants when there's plenty of life here?

Dimnos quit being a dipshit. You're almost as bad as fathom zero and guitar woman.

I don't even know if the purpose of this project specifically was to find water on the moon or if there were several other purposes but whatever. I'm sure they weren't as important as updating the hubble telescope and hey maybe nasa is hiring you should check that out since you've got decision making powers.

Fathom Zero

Sep 26th, 2009, 06:25 AM

I got pissed off, is all. I mentioned the ice on Mars and I got the same reaction I gave you.

WHY DON'T YOU IDIOTS CARE ABOUT THIS? IT'S FUCKING SPACE. IT'S GODDAMN AWESOME. Jesus.

Colonel Flagg

Sep 26th, 2009, 09:20 PM

I'd propose that the general existence of water on the moon is not - forgive the expression - earth shattering. In my worldview, it is more significant that water is turning up everywhere we care to look, if we look hard enough. The fact that it exists on the Moon and on Mars indicates that we might also expect to find it in the asteroid belt. It is in fact most likely that we will discover it is ubiquitous within the solar system.

Furthermore, the presence of water in quantity makes it a commodity that a proposed "permanant manned base" would not have to necessarily bring with them from Earth. As lunar regolith is relatively rich in light metals like iron, titanium and manganese, one might envision a mining/smelting operation being a commercial impetus, with the extraction of water from the regolith being an ancillary benefit. Not to mention that water + sunlight can generate elemental hydrogen and oxygen - i.e. rocket fuel.

And as for exploration of the solar system and space in general - well, that's what humans do. Search out the unknown and make it known. We've been doing this for thousands of years, in the periods of time that we're not blowing ourselves to smithereens, that is. :\

kahljorn

Sep 26th, 2009, 10:50 PM

yea, that's what is kind of interesting about this article though is that it does shatter the worldviews that water has to come from somewhere else (like comets or something) and instead speculates that it might be the result of the sun which would mean that it could be everywhere. At least, wherever there are hydrogen rich stuff and no atmosphere...

I'd also add that any step to make it easier to get supplies into space will end up saving us money

Fathom Zero

Sep 26th, 2009, 11:02 PM

Maybe the Moon could have an atmosphere, then, if only the water could evaporate. It's probably not warm enough for long enough to create such a thing, though.

Evil Robot

Sep 27th, 2009, 04:37 PM

China has some goal set up to be mining Hydrogen 3 atoms from the moon in the future, they say they can use it for nuclear fuel.

Colonel Flagg

Sep 27th, 2009, 10:33 PM

I think you mean Helium-3, oh Evil one.

EDIT: My apologies. I'm being glib, and not giving you proper credit. Of course, the primary reason for going back to the moon is the presence of Helium-3 in the regolith. I forgot, and you, sir, called me on it. Thanks for setting me straight. :)

executioneer

Sep 28th, 2009, 12:30 AM

maybe he means tritium :eek

Colonel Flagg

Sep 28th, 2009, 05:01 AM

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/air_space/1283056.html

Tritium is most likely present in small quantities, but as it's radioactive it doesn't hang around (half-life of 12+ years). Helium-3 is present in the solar wind, and can be used as a nuclear fuel, but the solar wind is deflected by the magnetic field of the earth .... but not from the moon. Hence it accumulates in the regolith. Helium-3 is also the decay product of Tritium.

Plus, it's most commonly referred to as Tritium and not as Hydrogen-3. :p

kgp4death

Oct 9th, 2009, 07:15 PM

so i guess they smashed a object into the moon to examine the dust cloud it generated today. Water as well as other materials are important for fuel purposes you have to remember 99% of the fuel they use is just to get out of the atmosphere if they could refuel on the moon they could do all kinds of crap in space. (water + electricity = hydrogen + oxygen = fuel) as well as of course water is main ingredient of known life forms. It will be interesting to see what they detect.
heres the video
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33215937

Fathom Zero

Oct 9th, 2009, 08:25 PM

Carbon-based life forms.

There could potentially be beings out there based on different elements. I know it's a dumbass example, but the movie Evolution was based around this premise. Though, that didn't explain why the aliens looked kinda familiar.

Tadao

Oct 9th, 2009, 08:31 PM

HEY GUYS! I got a great idea. We'll bring some moon water back to earth to study! No no no, don't worry. I'm sure we are all immune to whatever we find, plus we have really really small filters. Plus what ever might be in the water probably came from the earth, so like we should be cool. Don't worry so much guys.

I know we aren't bringing any home, but you know that's the next step.

Colonel Flagg

Oct 9th, 2009, 08:49 PM

Yes, Tad, I know there are dangers, and that there are all sorts of complications in returning samples to Earth, but in reality, we've already done that with the return of moon rocks during the Apollo program. Plus, it would be really cool to analyze Moon Water (tm).

Colonel Flagg

Oct 9th, 2009, 08:50 PM

I'm sure we won't bring back any dangerous microbes. :andromeda

Tadao

Oct 9th, 2009, 08:52 PM

That would be true if we had ever landed there.

kgp4death

Oct 10th, 2009, 12:48 AM

yeah the mars rock they found in Antarctica had some microbes and crap fossilized on there. Last time i checked that was still what they think. They say that a similar rock may of started life on earth.

Colonel Flagg

Oct 10th, 2009, 01:55 PM

That would be true if we had ever landed there.

:lol

kahljorn

Oct 11th, 2009, 06:14 PM

yea you guys and your staunch belief in something as ridiculous as a MOON LANDING in such primitive times could really fuck us up in the long run.

didn't they find some crap living really deep underwater next to volcanic vents that might've been sulfur based rather than carbon based?
:O

stevetothepast

Oct 11th, 2009, 07:16 PM

we could just bring some bottled water up there.

Fathom Zero

Oct 11th, 2009, 08:18 PM

kgp4death

Oct 11th, 2009, 08:44 PM

we could just bring some bottled water up there.

yeah that's like a 10,000 dollar bottle of water. It takes a lot of fuel to get things in space. I think they actually drink filtered piss. Obviously you need some actual water but I think like 50% of what they drink is straight up filtered piss.