9-11 Trials

[Tadao]

Obama wants to try the suspects in N.Y.

That's a dumb idea. Let's through gas of the fire.

[Fathom Zero]

They will die. It's practically factual.

[Dimnos]

They should get their day in court just like every one else in this country. Yes yes I know... They arent actually US citizens but we shouldnt have two definitions of justice. Justice for us is the same justice we should hand out. We are supposed to be better than that. Besides, like Fathom said, its practically factual what will happen to them anyway.

[Tadao]

I'm just thinking about the shit storm of accusations that are going to fly around over this. Aren't we trying to repair our status as a world leader? Holding the trials in D.C. would make more sense.

[Dimnos]

I'm just thinking about the shit storm of accusations that are going to fly around over this. Aren't we trying to repair our status as a world leader? Holding the trials in D.C. would make more sense.

Yes. Yes it would. Not to mention in a lot of high profile murder trials they move it to another area on the grounds of the jury pool being bias. Not that I think they could find a jury in the US that wouldnt be bias but moving it out of NY is probably what should be done.

[kahljorn]

The crime was committed in united states jurisdiction. I would assume this would go to federal court, which has no juries.

I guess you can request a jury? Anyway usually in federal courts they are tried by a panel of judges.

[Tadao]

If a N.Y. judge wants to keep his job, there can only be one outcome.

[Dimnos]

Juries... judges... You know what Im talking about.

[Geggy]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/14/view-pending-trial-attempt-prosecute-bush-administration/

911 was an inside job. Evidence was obtained through torture. And all that.

[Geggy]

Mukasey threatens...oops I mean warns of 'very high' risk of attack over NYC 9/11 trial

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/1109/Mukasey_very_high_risk_of_attack_on_NYC_911_trial. html

[El Blanco]

Geggy, still on that shit?

Will you be protesting at the trial, defending a man accused of a crime you have irrefutable proof he didn't commit?

Wait, what's that? The 9/11 conspiracy bullshit is just a cry for help by a bunch of sad, lonely, and hopeless people?

Ya, figured that much already. And you even used FOX News as a source, you fucking hypocrite.


That stupidity out of the way:

NYC was the one of the jurisdictions of the crimes on 9/11. We also have the best facilities and have aptly handled trials like this in the past. Like the first WTC bombing trial and the Bernie Madoff trial.

And can someone tell me a place that won't have a supposedly tainted jury pool?

[El Blanco]

Yes. Yes it would. Not to mention in a lot of high profile murder trials they move it to another area on the grounds of the jury pool being bias. Not that I think they could find a jury in the US that wouldnt be bias but moving it out of NY is probably what should be done.

Why is moving it to another city that was attacked that day a good idea? Why does the opinions of other countries matter here? It was an attack on our soil and they will be processed like every other criminal. They are being treated as they should.

[Tadao]

We can at least pretend.

[Chojin]

we should try them in DC because they haven't heard about 9/11 yet

[Tadao]

Well, did they attack N.Y. or America?

[Tadao]

Why does the opinions of other countries matter here?

I'd like to go to other countries and play without getting treated like shit and ripped of.

[El Blanco]

You going into tourist traps and the locals giving you shitty treatment has nothing to do with this trial. I have no idea why you think moving this trial to Washington would make them stop being douche bags.

[Tadao]

:rolleyes

[kahljorn]

Personally I think the entire idea of this trial is retarded. How can you charge somebody for a war crime (if it can even be called that) in a civil court? I guess that's one thing that foreigners might get pissed about.

All they have to do is argue that it was committed in an act of war and the entire case becomes stupid.

[Dr. Boogie]

Does it count as an act of war if they aren't representing a specific nation?

[kahljorn]

Maybe.
But, then, they could just say that they are representing the interests of a country which has been taken over by us. In effect, they could say they are a "Resistance" to our colonial rule or some shit.

I think it would be more troublesome to not consider this a possible warcrime

[Tadao]

I think the guys set for trial right now are gonna be accused of the 9-11 plot, so that would be before we took Afghanistan.

[kahljorn]

I'm aware of that, but why did terrorists attack us? it wasn't because they thought their countries were completely free of western involvement.

[Tadao]

The real reason? We'll never get to know that. I'm sure Captain America will show up soon with the proper flag waving answer though.

[Evil Robot]

They attacked the WTC because they thought it was full of Jewish people.

[Tadao]

What is the Jew ratio there btw?

[kahljorn]

I think it's problematic to not consider this an act of war. Our response to this was to declare war and attack a country, remove and execute a dictator. What does that mean about us if we were never attacked in the first place?
Does the fact that we attacked that country to remove those terrorists imply that they represented or were aided by Sadam?

What would it mean if we declared war and attacked a country over something that was not an act of war?
How can we mobilize our military against terrorists in the future if it isn't an issue of war? Technically that would go against the law that says our military can't arrest people for civil matters.

yea and the reason why terrorists attack is hella hard to figure out. It could just be for religious reasons or political reasons, but then in muslim countries its sometimes hard to tell the two apart. However, if all of the supposed terrorist videos ive watched and all the shit ive read is to be believed, then many of them have this belief that america has had a vested interest and influence in afghanistan long before 911. Whether the reason they want to attack us stems from political or religious reasons, there is generally that one commonly held opinion.

[Geggy]

Geggy, still on that shit?

Will you be protesting at the trial, defending a man accused of a crime you have irrefutable proof he didn't commit?

Wait, what's that? The 9/11 conspiracy bullshit is just a cry for help by a bunch of sad, lonely, and hopeless people?

Ya, figured that much already. And you even used FOX News as a source, you fucking hypocrite.


That stupidity out of the way:

NYC was the one of the jurisdictions of the crimes on 9/11. We also have the best facilities and have aptly handled trials like this in the past. Like the first WTC bombing trial and the Bernie Madoff trial.

And can someone tell me a place that won't have a supposedly tainted jury pool?


At the appropriate place, insert the following:
Sec. . Sense of the Senate on declassifying portions of
the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities
Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 2001.
(a) Findings.--The Senate finds that--
(1) The President has prevented the release to the American
public of 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence
Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks
of September 2001.
(2) The contents of the redacted pages discuss sources of
foreign support for some of the September 11th hijackers
while they were in the United States.
(3) The Administration's decision to classify this
information prevents the American people from having access
to information about the involvement of certain foreign
governments in the terrorist attacks of September 2001.
(4) The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has requested that the
President release the 28 pages.
(5) The Senate respects the need to keep information
regarding intelligence sources and methods classified, but
the Senate also recognizes that such purposes can be
accomplished through careful selective redaction of specific
words and passages, rather than effacing the section's
contents entirely.
(b) Sense of the Senate.--It is the sense of the Senate
that in light of these findings the President should
declassify the 28-page section of the Joint Inquiry into
Intelligence Community Activities Before and After the
Terrorist Attacks of September 2001 that deals with foreign
sources of support for the 9-11 hijackers, and that only
those portions of the report that would directly compromise
ongoing investigations or reveal intelligence sources and
methods should remain classified.

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s102803.html


FBI agent Robert Wright holds a press conference. He makes a statement that has been preapproved by the FBI. As one account puts it, "Robert Wright's story is difficult to piece together because he is on government orders to remain silent.... [T]his is in distinct contrast to the free speech and whistle-blower protections offered to Colleen Rowley, general counsel in the FBI Minneapolis office, who got her story out before the agency could silence her. Wright, a 12-year bureau veteran, has followed proper channels" but has been frustrated by limitations on what he is allowed to say (see September 11, 2001-October 2001). "The best he could do [is a] press conference in Washington, D.C., where he [tells] curious reporters that he [has] a whopper of a tale to tell, if only he could." Wright says that FBI bureaucrats "intentionally and repeatedly thwarted [his] attempts to launch a more comprehensive investigation to identify and neutralize terrorists." He also claims, "FBI management failed to take seriously the threat of terrorism in the US." [Fox News, 5/30/2002; Federal News Service, 5/30/2002; LA Weekly, 8/2/2002] Larry Klayman, a lawyer representing Wright, says at the conference that he believes one reason Wright's investigations were blocked "is because these monies were going through some very powerful US banks with some very powerful interests in the United States. These banks knew or had reason to know that these monies were laundered by terrorists. And there are very significant potential conflicts of interests in both the Clinton and Bush Administrations-with the country primarily responsible for funding these charities, mainly Saudi Arabia. We have both Clinton and Bush, and in particular this Bush Administration, who is as tight with Saudi Arabia as you can get." He also says, "Corruption is knowing when something is not being done, knowing when the American people are being left unprotected and when you make a decision not to do something to protect the American people... And you effectively allow 9/11 to occur. That is the ultimate form of government corruption-dereliction of duty. That's subject in the military to prosecution, to court martial.... Frankly, if not treason."

http://www.historycommons.org/search...n+rowley&event s =on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on &projects=on&titles=on&descrip tions=on&dosearch=on

Booooo

[Geggy]

Origin of the Funds
To date, the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used
for the 9/11 attacks. As we have discussed above, the compelling evidence appears to
trace the bulk of the funds directly back to KSM and, possibly, Qatari, but no further.163
Available information on this subject has thus far has not been illuminating.164 According
to KSM, Bin Ladin provided 85–95 percent of the funds for the plot from his personal
wealth, with the remainder coming from general al Qaeda funds. To the extent KSM
intended to refer to wealth Bin Ladin inherited from his family or derived from any
business activity, this claim is almost certainly wrong, because Bin Ladin was not
personally financing al Qaeda during this time frame.165 Ultimately the question of the
origin of the funds is of little practical significance. Al Qaeda had many avenues of
funding. If a particular source of funds dried up, it could have easily tapped a different
source or diverted money from a different project to fund an attack that cost $400,000–
$500,000 over nearly two years.
We know that a small percentage of the plot funds originated in the bank account of
Shehhi, which apparently came from his military salary. Binalshibh drew on these funds
to wire approximately $10,000 to Shehhi in the United States, as well as to support his
own role in the plot to some degree. Al Qaeda does not necessarily have to completely
fund terrorist operatives. Some, like Shehhi, have means and can fund themselves, at
least in part, a factor that makes the fight on “terrorist financing” all the more difficult.

Page 147 http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_..._Monograph.pdf

To date, the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks. Ultimately the question is of little practical significance. Al Qaeda had many avenues of funding. If a particular funding source had dried up, al Qaeda could have easily tapped a different source or diverted funds from another project to fund an operation that cost $400,000-$500,000 over nearly two years.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Ch5.htm

Boooooo

[El Blanco]

Hey, numb nuts, the exact accounts a channels the money specific to the 9/11 attacks is irrelevant when you are just determined to shut down all of the attackers funding anyway.

It doesn't mean they aren't looking for the money, it means they can't determine which of the accounts they already identified and seized were directly used in the attacks. It is the next fucking sentence to what you high lighted. Is reading that far out of your skill set?

Did you read the proposed amendment by that US Senator (really? you use him as a source? Shouldn't you want him on trial too?)

As for History Commons, their editorial policies leave a little to be desired. [/understatement]

[george]

they are only bringing the slam dunks to the US. there is no chance these guys wont get excecuted, or sent to Prison for life.

fuck them, and all their asshole pals.

and as for reprisals for the trials, fear mongering, etc. if these assholes could attack us again they would attack us again. they havent waited eight years to keep us in suspense, they just cant muster another attack.

terrorism is a real thing. there will be other attacks, and we have to get out there and disrupt them as much as possible. but being afraid to have a TRIAL? please, if the the US has become such pussies that they cant have a TRIAL to punnish the assholes that attacked us then we deserve to be attacked.

[Tadao]

Who said anything about being afraid. If it's in Geggy's posts, well I didn't read that. :(

[El Blanco]

Also, Geggy, you still haven't confirmed that you will be at the trial to support a man you claim is innocent.

Coward.

[Dimnos]

Because they would then be able to ID and target him with their Jew plots. :rolleyes

[Ant10708]

Can a fucking moderator please step in and enforce some fucking rules so people can have a discussion and I can read one without every other post being by geggy who does nothing but post links and huge quotes. How the fuck is he not considered spam? just because he believes the shit he spams does not mean it is not spam. I think he is long overdue to be banned atleast temporaily for being a spamming dumbass. I seriously find his posts more annoying then the actual spambots that occassionally post and I'm sure most people would agree. I mean yes his deluded mind sometimes comes up with an unintentionally hilarious post but hes a fucking spammer 99% of the time. This isn't his fucking 9/11 truthers daily blog, so can we please stop letting this pathetic individual hijack(no pun intended) your websites forum and use it as such? For allah's sake, his last two posts where links to other threads where he just spammed more nonsense and avoided any discussion with other members.

He will just think that the U.S. govt pressured you to ban him because he was getting to close to the truth. So Imockery wins by being geggy free and reducing this boards spam by 85% and geggy wins because this will be irrefutable proof that the Us government and imockery.com was behind the 9/11 attacks. Its always been clear to me that if this website was a person it would wear a t shirt that says
" I PLANE NY"

[Tadao]

He's a forum terrorist. :eek

[Geggy]

i'm sad that ant didnt focus on the contents of my "spam" :tear

[Chojin]

well, i removed his links to other threads in the same forum. idk what else you'd want us to do, ant - READ his posts and then determine if they're intelligent and on-topic enough for this forum?

[El Blanco]

That is the problem. Some of us do read his posts. He is the one that doesn't read them.

And, Geggy, still no word on your trip to NYC to help defend a man who you claim is innocent and may be executed?

[Evil Robot]

If geggy goes Ill be there too, its only two stops away from my office. I just wan't to see what geegy looks like in real life. I'm not going to say hello or anything, I just want to take a video of him acting crazy and holding signs and post it here to make fun of him.

[Geggy]

Wtf are talking about el blanco? You're the one who couldn't make the connection as to why the 9/11 commission fail to determine where the original funding of 911 plot came from because they didn't have the access to the 28 page report from the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence
Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks of September 2001 which points to the royals of saudi arabia, whom the bush administration were cozy with, as the primiray source of funding. Why didn't the bush admin. want the info to be released? Because it might reveal and confirm fbi agent robert wright's story as true and authentic. Where do you think the 911 commission got the information that Osama was funding the 9/11 plot? From KSM. But they determined that the infomration was false because it was extracted from torture and was contradicted by other known facts. I only relinked to older articles because it explained how the military tribunal failed so badly that it had to be brought upon the civilian court.

[Ant10708]

So your big revelation is that the Saudi royal family use to fund terrorism and probably still does. what a surprise :rolleyes

[Geggy]

So its easy for you to believe that saudi royal family gives financial support to terrorists yet you have difficulties grasping the fact that they cooperate with the US oil and arms industries?

[El Blanco]

It could possibly be that the Saudi royal family is friggin huge. bin Laden himself is part of it. That the part the Bus family and the US is close with isn't that close to the side trying to overthrow them and take power.

And do you or do you not believe KSM is innocent?

[Ant10708]

So its easy for you to believe that saudi royal family gives financial support to terrorists yet you have difficulties grasping the fact that they cooperate with the US oil and arms industries?When did I ever say that? When did I ever show any support for the saudi royal family? Just because I don't think they planned 9/11 does not mean I don't think they are rich ass motherfuckers that support some terrible things including terrorists. Of course they cooperate with US oil(whatever US oil is to you since its not one big company), they fucking sell the oil to the US. And to be honest I am not very well read on arms dealing so I couldn't really add anything aside from I'm sure they sell guns to people they are not suppose to like almost every less then desirable nation out there. See maybe if you posted more like the one im quoting and made some actual points I wouldn't dismiss everything you say.

Now that I answered your question lets see if you do the same for mine. Do you still feel one of the reasons the Iraq War was to obtain their oil.And if so why havn't we gotten large amounts of their oil yet?
NO BLOOD FOR OIL sounds nice but it seems that its been more BLOOD FOR NOTHING.

[The Leader]

And to be honest I am not very well read on arms dealing so I couldn't really add anything aside from I'm sure they sell guns to people they are not suppose to like almost every less then desirable nation out there.
Uh... The United States is a less than desirable nation in your opinion?

[kahljorn]

Maybe they did get their oil and they are just riding out the fact that they can charge 4 dollars a gallon :O

[kahljorn]

and yea what the leader said: pretty sure we sell arms :O in fact we're pretty much the ones who gave weapons to the taliban or wtfever during the cold war, right?

[The Leader]

Yup to the Taliban thing and the United States is currently the largest arms supplier in history.

[Ant10708]

Yes. Have you seen our political system where no real change ever occurs and the same people stay in power in official and unofficial positions for decades? And considering the US has trained or supplied weapons to half of our current enemies at one point in time and supported some pretty horrible dictatorships and continues to give trillions of dollars to columbia even thou nothing is being done to stop the coke trade. we also continue to have an partnership with an afghan man whose brother is heavily involved in the international herion trade. In this country you go to jail for possessing a hit worth of herion tar. Yet we have billions of dollars of aid going to the brother of one of the largest suppliers of herion? yes we are a less then desireable nation. don't get me wrong i love living in this country(mainly because i live in ny and not a shitty state) but we are not a role model and we waste tax payer money beyond comprehension. I also support limited government and the us govt has been anything but limited in the decades since ive been alive.

[Ant10708]

No shit we sell arms. We sell arms to backward ass countries like pakistan and at the same time try to kiss indias ass. which makes us a less then desireable country in my opinion. I thought we were all old enough here to be past USA USA chanting and are able to criticize it

Well thank you leader for proving my point that countries(such as the us) are less then desireable nations for selling weapons to shady countries.

like did i ever say the usa was immune to my criticisms?

[The Leader]

Everyone's got their faults.

[The Leader]

What was that last post even in response to Ant?

edt: Goddamnit man, editing your posts.

[Ant10708]

you and kahl stating obvious facts like we trained the taliban and bin laden during the cold war. and the fact that the us is one of the worlds largest arm suppliers.

we also gave the taliban millions of dollars in the months prior to 9/11 in order to have them stop poppy production yet when we essentially control the country we let poppy production run rampant. MONEY WELL SPENT. LESS THEN DESIREABLE


I also think the fact that we have more then enough nukes to blow up the planet multiple times and yet at the same time we act like we are agaisnt nuclear weapons makes us a less then desireable nation.

[The Leader]

I think that you're very confused as to my stance on this. Of course such a thing is not uncommon with you.

[Ant10708]

No just making my stance more clear since you were the one confused by thinking I felt the US was for some reason not apart of the less then desirable countries.

Good to see you know who I am because I honestly don't remember ever seeing you post before.

[The Leader]

That's probably because you seem to only post in the sports forum.

[Ant10708]

I suggest you just stop posting sow e can end this boring ass conversation your dragging on. I never post in the sports section. I frequent the gaming and movie section

[Ant10708]

JUST DANCE!:squigly

[kahljorn]

Well so basically you think that arms trade should be abolished or limited? What countries which supply guns don't sell them to places you don't like? also you want limited government :O

[The Leader]

I suggest you just stop posting sow e can end this boring ass conversation your dragging on. I never post in the sports section. I frequent the gaming and movie section
You don't have to respond.:|

[El Blanco]

For fuck sake people, read a book.

The Taliban did not exist until 1994. Well after the Soviet pull out of Afghanistan. In fact, well after the Soviet Union fucking collapsed.

OBL had nothing to do with the CIA support of certain mujaheddin factions. In fact, he publicly railed against it, wanting a pure Muslim state fought for by pure Muslims.

The big weapon the CIA supplied to the friendly warlords in Afghanistan was a stinger missle launcher. It shot down the Soviet HiND helicopters. The battery on these things, however, had an active life of a few years, if you could recharge it. They were dead long before our forces invaded.

After we up and left without even attempting to form a stabilized government (which a lot of people are calling for us to do now), a power vacuum occured that was filled by the Taliban in 1996 with help from OBL.

Did they use some of the logistical and communication networks we left behind? Yes. Did we directly support the guys in power when we invaded or al Queda? No.

[The Leader]

I seem to have started a trend in this thread of adding information that everyone already knows. I'm so popular!

[Ant10708]

Did they use some of the logistical and communication networks we left behind? Yes. Did we directly support the guys in power when we invaded or al Queda? No. Well we did give the Taliban alot of money to stop the growing of opium shortly before 9/11. I'd say thats directly supporting the guys in power
And the Taliban are made up of members of one of the mujaheddin that we supported against the soviets or atleast of members of religious schools that the mujaheddin set up. Just because they didn't call themselves the taliban at the time doesn't mean its not essentially the same people we supported against the soviets that is now fighting us. Also the CIA helped trained various members of the mujahideen so even if bin laden wasn't directly trained by the CIA I'm sure he learned plenty of tactics from other cia trained members of the mujaheddin who he fought alongside of.