What are people's thoughts on

[Zhukov]

Making people, immigrants, speak English in the Southern States of the USA rather than than Spanish, which seems to be taking over according to some people?

I've seen a few news snippets that suggest some local politicians are supporting the idea that Spanish be made secondary to English... somehow.

[Fathom Zero]

I think it would be prudent for anyone coming to America to learn English. And if someone can't, they're going to miss out on opportunities, and rightfully so. It would also be prudent for southerners to learn Spanish, as well.

But it's more than just the southern states, it's all over and reaching up into Canada.

Living in Virginia and southern Maryland was crazy, seeing all the fruit and veggie stands along the roads. All of which were staffed by brown people whom could only speak a few words of English.

I don't really have an opinion, either way, actually. But if someone wants something from me, then the onus is on them for making themselves understandable to me.

[Dimnos]

You need to learn it. If you want to live here and be an American then you need to speak the language. I wouldnt move to Germany without having learned a good bit of German. That would just be stupid.

[Colonel Flagg]

The famous "Jim's Steaks" in South Philly made news recently by making it a requirement that in ordering your meal that you must order in ENGLISH.

(I think it was "Jim's" - it may have been "Pat's")

EDIT (sorry 'bout that, chief): I am more inclined to agree with the majority; there should not be a "requirement" to learn English per se, but it would be greatly beneficial to anyone who does.

[Zhukov]

I am more inclined to agree with the majority; there should not be a "requirement" to learn English per se, but it would be greatly beneficial to anyone who does.
Of course.


The famous "Jim's Steaks" in South Philly made news recently by making it a requirement that in ordering your meal that you must order in ENGLISH.

(I think it was "Jim's" - it may have been "Pat's")

And this is interesting because I seem to hear a lot of the complaining being done is in regards to business, either examples like this, or where Spanish speaking advertising is taking over.

I'm interested in this whole idea, because it's globalisation now actually available in the USA. People seem to think that you can just ban speaking Spanish or something ridiculous like that, and it will all go away, or that you can tell a company to advertise in English and expect them not to lose out on a huge Spanish speaking market. The reasonably free market will always lean towards the profitability of it all, rather than sensibilities. It wont be long before coca cola start producing Spanish version bottles for the US.

You need to learn it. If you want to live here and be an American then you need to speak the language. I wouldnt move to Germany without having learned a good bit of German. That would just be stupid.
Stupid for the person migrating. You learn the language to fit in, right? To be able to live properly in society. But what about when you don't need the language to survive? What about when you are a Pole moving right across the border to 'Little Poland' or something, where everyone speaks Polish, all the shops are Polish run, and Polish is the second most spoken language in the country, and always increasing.

[Fathom Zero]

Stupid for the person migrating. You learn the language to fit in, right? To be able to live properly in society. But what about when you don't need the language to survive? What about when you are a Pole moving right across the border to 'Little Poland' or something, where everyone speaks Polish, all the shops are Polish run, and Polish is the second most spoken language in the country, and always increasing.

Jawohl, little man in the red and yellow car.

[Dimnos]

Stupid for the person migrating. You learn the language to fit in, right? To be able to live properly in society. But what about when you don't need the language to survive? What about when you are a Pole moving right across the border to 'Little Poland' or something, where everyone speaks Polish, all the shops are Polish run, and Polish is the second most spoken language in the country, and always increasing.

Then there isnt much you can really do about it. :\ Like you said, you really cant expect businesses to only advertise in English and miss out on the Spanish speaking market. Banning the language right out is a ridiculous idea as well. IF you are actually going to take action and want to pas some sort of law, the only sensible one is that you require a basic understanding of the native language. Then again this would only be forced on the legal immigrants. In the case of the Spanish speaking immigrants in the south most are here illegally.

All in all I really dont give a fuck what language you speak. As long as your here legally.

[Zhukov]

Well I hear they are cracking down on illegals now, so that fixes that.


An ex in New York tells me that all her workmates in a small dog grooming place are illegal immigrants. :\

[Dimnos]

Cracking down? How? I havnt seen this cracking down.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

I don't think they will ban spanish in the usa because we still don't have an official language. Personally I feel they should have ratified the amendment making english the official language though.

[Dimnos]

Na. It would be unamerican to ban a language right out.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

I feel like they would come out with something where you can opt to speak spanish for for a price. Then have the price be too much for people of that language to speak it. Then there would have to be private companies the offer to translate for you the languages between two individuals....

I have to call spanish translators at work quite regularly and from what I've heard they get paid like $10 a minute.

[DougClayton4231]

I don't understand why people are upset that English may become a requirement to drive a vehicle in Alabama. Last time I checked, we don't offer street signs in any other language. It's rude to think that you can come to another country and expect them to learn your language anyway. BTW I am bilingual.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

That's kind of what I was thinking.

[Tadao]

We'll all be speaking Mandarin or Japanese sooner or later. :bow

[Zhukov]

So there is a huge population boom of Spanish speaking peoples in a certain fictional town I am making up, after a decade or so the scales of Spanish speakers (those that speak Spanish at home) compared to English speakers are tipped in the Spaniards favour. As a result, more and more Spanish speaking businesses pop up as time goes on, more and more money is being made in the Spanish speaking market as opposed to the English speaking one. There is more support in the form of money towards the Spanish speaking community. Spanish speaking people who are legally American citizens run for... is it called parliament over there? Well they run for that. Local government type shindigs.

The high percentage of Spanish speaking voters get them elected mayor or whatever of hypotheticalville, and one of their first acts is to add Spanish to all road signs in the town because as it stands it takes that extra fraction of a second for most drivers to translate things and that could lead to accidents. For the safety of legal American citizen drivers, the signs are changed to Spanish. Also this town could be YOUR TOWN.

Cracking down? How? I havnt seen this cracking down. Some sort of 'bill' in Arizona making it easier for honest American police officers to target suspected illegal immigrants if they look suspiciously like they are illegal. I was only joking that they were cracking down though.

[Fathom Zero]

So there is a huge population boom of Spanish speaking peoples in a certain fictional town I am making up, after a decade or so the scales of Spanish speakers (those that speak Spanish at home) compared to English speakers are tipped in the Spaniards favour. As a result, more and more Spanish speaking businesses pop up as time goes on, more and more money is being made in the Spanish speaking market as opposed to the English speaking one. There is more support in the form of money towards the Spanish speaking community. Spanish speaking people who are legally American citizens run for... is it called parliament over there? Well they run for that. Local government type shindigs.

The high percentage of Spanish speaking voters get them elected mayor or whatever of hypotheticalville, and one of their first acts is to add Spanish to all road signs in the town because as it stands it takes that extra fraction of a second for most drivers to translate things and that could lead to accidents. For the safety of legal American citizen drivers, the signs are changed to Spanish. Also this town could be YOUR TOWN.

I am alright with that situation. Government by consent of the governed and shit like that are what America was supposedly built on. There are plenty of towns in the southwest and up into Cali that have already done the same. I'm a big fan of majoritarianism, (with a couple provisions to keep the little guy happy, of course.)

Personally, this smacks of white supremacy, this keeping America "pure" nonsense, though it's not just limited to those nutters.

At any rate, it doesn't matter to me. We're all gonna be brown and speaking Mandarin in few centuries, anyway.

[Zhukov]

That's cool. I didn't expect anyone to really WANT to ban Spanish or anything like that, it's sort of just played out like that in the papers. Small news snippets with barely any information other than "LOL look what these Americans are up to today :rolleyes "

[Fathom Zero]

Well, I mean, we're a minority being all rational and shit.

I guess most think it's overrated.

[Shrubfest]

I think its weird that the US is such a big place and manages to speak one launguage predominantly anyway.

We can barely manage it here, and England is barely state sized.

[Dimnos]

So there is a huge population boom of Spanish speaking peoples in a certain fictional town I am making up, after a decade or so the scales of Spanish speakers (those that speak Spanish at home) compared to English speakers are tipped in the Spaniards favour. As a result, more and more Spanish speaking businesses pop up as time goes on, more and more money is being made in the Spanish speaking market as opposed to the English speaking one. There is more support in the form of money towards the Spanish speaking community. Spanish speaking people who are legally American citizens run for... is it called parliament over there? Well they run for that. Local government type shindigs.

The high percentage of Spanish speaking voters get them elected mayor or whatever of hypotheticalville, and one of their first acts is to add Spanish to all road signs in the town because as it stands it takes that extra fraction of a second for most drivers to translate things and that could lead to accidents. For the safety of legal American citizen drivers, the signs are changed to Spanish. Also this town could be YOUR TOWN.

HEY! THAT is my town! :lol But its cool. Them Mexicans know how to eat. :yum

Some sort of 'bill' in Arizona making it easier for honest American police officers to target suspected illegal immigrants if they look suspiciously like they are illegal. I was only joking that they were cracking down though.

Oh yeah I think I heard about this. Its something like "If you look really Mexican you better carry around your papers showing your legal or we will deport you"

[The Leader]

I don't think the US has ever recognized any language as the state's "official" language so whatever floats your boat, I say. There's always charades.

[Kitsa]

I guess I don't understand why it seems to be so damn hard for people to know more than one language. On the Continent it's a given. You can understand and do way more if you at least have one Romance language under your belt, and not live in utter paranoia of linguistic collusion.

[kahljorn]

probably the most negative affect i've noticed from the influx of spanish speaking individuals is that many jobs require you to be bilingual even though they aren't dealing necessarily with the spanish speaking populace, and they don't pay more. It used to be that being bilingual could get you a nicer job/ more money, but now its a requirement for some of even the most basic jobs that barely pay minimum wage :(

[TheCoolinator]

Making people, immigrants, speak English in the Southern States of the USA rather than than Spanish, which seems to be taking over according to some people?

I've seen a few news snippets that suggest some local politicians are supporting the idea that Spanish be made secondary to English... somehow.

I don't want to force anyone to do anything. If italian, spanish, mexican, german, or any other nationalities wish to speak in their native dialect then that's fine. I think they'll find out real fast that if you don't speak the proper language then it will be very difficult for them to participate in society.

I think the main issue is checking if they are in the country legally and if not we can always send them packing and they can speak their native language as much as they want in there country of origin, and send their government the bill for the plane ride.

[The Leader]

I don't want to force anyone to do anything. If italian, spanish, mexican, german, or any other nationalities wish to speak in their native dialect then that's fine. I think they'll find out real fast that if you don't speak the proper language then it will be very difficult for them to participate in society.

I think the main issue is checking if they are in the country legally and if not we can always send them packing and they can speak their native language as much as they want in there country of origin, and send their government the bill for the plane ride.
AMERICA!

[TheCoolinator]

Speaking of which,

I wonder how Arizona is fairing after they past that immigration law. Which I may add is just a copy and paste of the federal law that's been on the books for decades.

[The Leader]

:lol

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

I wonder how Arizona is fairing after they past that immigration law. Which I may add is just a copy and paste of the federal law that's been on the books for decades.

I thought it was ridiculous they passed it on Cinco De Mayo.

[TheCoolinator]

I thought it was ridiculous they passed it on Cinco De Mayo.

You serious?

They were really twisting the knife with that gesture. Kind of like making alcohol illegal on St. Patti's day.

[Fathom Zero]

:lol

[Colonel Flagg]

I guess I don't understand why it seems to be so damn hard for people to know more than one language. On the Continent it's a given. You can understand and do way more if you at least have one Romance language under your belt, and not live in utter paranoia of linguistic collusion.

When I was traveling with the family in France about a decade ago I tried like the Dickens to speak and think entirely in French - which was difficult considering I only mastered the equivalent of High School level 3. Anyhoo, I was actually understood, and got a few good-natured language lessons on the way. It seemed that the people were actually pleasant and friendly (maybe because I was obviously making a serious effort to speak their native language). (I was actually complimented on my accent once. Imagine that!)

As the vacation wore on it became easier to think en Français, right up until I almost ran over an elderly woman on my way into a rest stop. I immediately said Excusez-moi, madame to which she responded Je vous en pris - and I couldn't for the life of me figure out if she just said "no worries mate" or "fuck you and the horse you rode in on". It was then I realized I would really like to go back home and speak "Amurikin" again.

I guess if you are forced to interact with a variety of people where the language is unfamiliar, eventually you will develop a natural facility. But that's just my opinion.

[Fathom Zero]

Indeed. And if not you, then at least your children, if you have any.

[kahljorn]

I think they'll find out real fast that if you don't speak the proper language then it will be very difficult for them to participate in society.

:lol Well, at least the issue with this spanish thing is that its starting to change society in many places. Like where i live, there's billboards and shit everywhere in spanish and lots of business that cater specifically to spanish people. They aren't really a minority here, and I don't think that they have any difficulties participating in (their) society.

[The Leader]

BUT THEY DON'T SPEAK THE PROPER LANGUAGE

[Colonel Flagg]

Like where i live, there's billboards and shit everywhere in spanish and lots of business that cater specifically to spanish people.

Yes, I remember they tried that sort of thing in NE Philly, in a predominantly Korean neighborhood, hanging street signs with dual linguistics. That lasted about a week. :\

City of brotherly lo... YO! YOU SPEAK ENGLISH!

[TheCoolinator]

We have to dive a little bit deeper into this. It's not just that some stuffy old Americans are getting upset because they're having trouble communicating with their gardener or drive-up teller at the local fast food joint. It's that certain cultures and ethnicities have been given incentives to seperate themselves from American culture.

So instead of it being a melting pot it turns into a quiilt where everyone is seperated into these little boxes and can be pushed with ease into conflicts with one another. I remember one time I went to a spanish bar in my neighborhood with a guy that was fluent in spanish.

When we walked in everyone looked at us like we had 3 heads but after the culture shock wore off we all had a good time.

After I left I asked myself why there was this hidden underground of people that drink at spanish bars, eat at spanish restaurants, and shop at spanish grocery stores. Well, the reason for this is that many of these people are illegal aliens....that's a no brainer....but the more pressing issue is that like the immigrants of old they are huddled into these little communities. The issue that differs from immigrants in the past is that its getting harder and harder for these underground communities to assimilate into the American way of life. There are many ethnocentric groups (privately funded by foundations and big business) that preach race war. Preach division. Preach victim ideology.

If you look at the paper trail La Raza, one of the most incediary Latino Ethnocentric groups, gets most of its money from Wall-Mart. We have to realize that this is social engineering. Controlling the minds of these defenseless immigrants and turning them on the American people.

[Dimnos]

http://u3a1ma.blu.livefilestore.com/y1pVuZP2wHRUvXeeMHR1F9HRmqTshLKxnDprxGsjf-ZsHQpkxqi4KWn2jft0lS9dOwK0xCvOzCLFb2dELDsxKsnfVakh Gtu3dK9/Mexican.bmp

[Zhukov]

I don't know if you are being serious or just kidding around Dimnos.

[TheCoolinator]

I don't know if you are being serious or just kidding around Dimnos.

To be honest, it doesn't really matter if he's serious or not. His posts are mostly pictures, over sized text that repeat, or a random comment so he can feel part of the conversation.

[Zhukov]

Are you hoping to tag team with me against Dimnos? It's not going to happen.

[TheCoolinator]

Are you hoping to tag team with me against Dimnos? It's not going to happen.

Our names and the phrase "tag team" should never be used in the same sentence. Please remember this.

[Dimnos]

That is one of those pictures that is worth 1,000 words. Those are the kind of Mexicans that come to American illegally and expect to just be entitled to things when they "put in" to begin with. I love how his sign says they will continue to kill cops until they get what they want. YES! Because murder is the proper way to go about things. :rolleyes

I watched a video of an illegal being interviewed. She was saying how most people who have a problem with illegals say that they dont pay taxes and she argued that she did every time she goes to the store. She didnt even understand that people are talking about federal taxes but wanted to argue the subject. :lol

[TheCoolinator]

That's what these people are being taught, the real question is who is teaching them this entitlement ideology?

I say the enthnocentric privately funded groups but you be the judge.

[The Leader]

Yeah, but you blame everything on privately funded groups.

[TheCoolinator]

Yeah, but you blame everything on privately funded groups.

Well,

Who is funding the ethnocentric group called La Raza that teaching race based revolution?

[Dimnos]

Morons.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

That's what these people are being taught, the real question is who is teaching them this entitlement ideology?

People who pay federal taxes.

[King Hadas]

A good chunk of illegals don't bother learning english because they don't intend on sticking around forever. Once they've earned enough money to build a house back home or whatever they plan on going back to Mexico. They're only working in America because the Mexican economy is so fucking awful.

I'm pretty much cool with spanish speaking in America. The only thing that gets me is what Khaljorn was talking about. The bilingual job requirement is a real kick in the dick, but it's the smug bilingualists that really make me mad. Someday though I'll also be a smug bilingualist and then I'm really gonna stick it to you stupid monolingual fags.

[Pentegarn]

then I'm really gonna stick it to you stupid monolingual fags.

Wait, are you making a pass at me? :confused:

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

Right in the butt. Nothing is worse than getting fagged in the ass.

[Zhukov]

So how did you "put in" when you were born into these entitlements?

[Dimnos]

I pay for my own health insurance. I got a legal job and pay my taxes. I bought my own house. I donate blood regularly even if only to shut them up and make them quit calling me. Oh and I dont approve the killing government employees to try and prove some half baked notion of entitlement.

[Tadao]

In an hour and 1/2 Los Angeles decides if they boycott Arizona.

[The Leader]

GIVE SANCTIONS MORE TIME

[Tadao]

Where will I get my Arizona Ice Tea? :(

[Dimnos]

Im sure there will be tea runners in Nevada. :(

[Tadao]

Here is something amusing.

"Arizona's export shipments of merchandise in 2009 totaled $14.0 billion.
The state's largest market was Mexico. Arizona posted exports of $4.5 billion to Mexico, close to one-third (32 percent) of the state's total export shipments in 2009."

http://www.trade.gov/td/industry/otea/state_reports/arizona.html

[TheCoolinator]

Here is something amusing.

"Arizona's export shipments of merchandise in 2009 totaled $14.0 billion.
The state's largest market was Mexico. Arizona posted exports of $4.5 billion to Mexico, close to one-third (32 percent) of the state's total export shipments in 2009."

http://www.trade.gov/td/industry/otea/state_reports/arizona.html

Ya, I know,

The place where I "work" sells a boat load of industrial products to Mexico. See, all the manufacturing is done over there, hence why we are all out of work over here and that shit we sell them is made from China and guess what.....all the profit goes to the Board Members and CEO's of the corporation while the American people push papers and except lower and lower salaries.

So....what's your point?

[The Leader]

:sleep

[Dimnos]

Ya, I know,

The place where I "work" sells a boat load of industrial products to Mexico. See, all the manufacturing is done over there, hence why we are all out of work over here and that shit we sell them is made from China and guess what.....all the profit goes to the Board Members and CEO's of the corporation while the American people push papers and except lower and lower salaries.

So....what's your point?

Chinese parts made in Mexico? :confused:

[TheCoolinator]

Chinese parts made in Mexico?

Ya,

they aren't made here. All the US economy is now a days is the middle man for production based manufacturing. We import chinese made tools and sell them to Mexico's factories.

Hence why we are all outta jobs here. Service based economies don't work.

[The Leader]

We do still export a decent amount of raw material... To China... Who then sells it back to us as product... Shit.

[Dimnos]

Oh so the parts themselves are manufactured in China then shipped through you to Mexico where its assembled?

[Jeanette X]

Well,

Who is funding the ethnocentric group called La Raza that teaching race based revolution?

You mouth-breathing, moronic boob.

"La Raza" does not neccessarily mean "The Race", it can mean "the People", which it does in that context. Hispanic/Latino ISN'T A FUCKING RACE. THERE ARE WHITE HISPANICS, BLACK HISPANICS, AND BROWN HISPANICS. ITS A CULTURAL IDENTITY, NOT AN ETHNIC ONE!

La Raza is a civil rights group for Hispanic people. Yes, a civil rights group. I know that must upset you that they would DARE to get together to defend themselves against racism, but you'll just have to live with it.

[Fathom Zero]

Many Mexicans are white, of Spanish lineage. When they came over from Europe, they weren't as good at genociding the natives as America.

[Jeanette X]

There are many ethnocentric groups (privately funded by foundations and big business) that preach race war. Preach division. Preach victim ideology.

If you look at the paper trail La Raza, one of the most incediary Latino Ethnocentric groups, gets most of its money from Wall-Mart. We have to realize that this is social engineering. Controlling the minds of these defenseless immigrants and turning them on the American people.

That's right, the immigrants are mindless and defenseless and are manipulated by forces that only you, in your position of privilege, can possibly hope to understand.

"First, as a sovereign nation, the United States has the right to determine who comes and who stays. . . [It also] has a right to consider enforcement at a variety of levels, including border enforcement, interior enforcement, and workplace enforcement. . . We support enforcement...[because] as Americans, we recognize it's the right thing to do." - NCLR CEO Janet Murguía From: http://www.nclr.org/files/42528_file_CHICANOFEDSPEECHMAY2005FINAL.pdf

[The Leader]

Oh so the parts themselves are manufactured in China then shipped through you to Mexico where its assembled?
I know some cars are built that way. A lot of the parts for those are made in the US, though.

[TheCoolinator]

Oh so the parts themselves are manufactured in China then shipped through you to Mexico where its assembled?

Mexico....then back up to the US. 1st world workers can't compete with slave / sweated labor who recieve less then a dollar an hour compared to high end US Union wages of 25-35 dollars an hour with benefits and pension plan.



it can mean "the People", which it does in that context. Hispanic/Latino ISN'T A FUCKING RACE. THERE ARE WHITE HISPANICS, BLACK HISPANICS, AND BROWN HISPANICS. ITS A CULTURAL IDENTITY, NOT AN ETHNIC ONE!

Yes,

That's exactly what I've been saying. It's an incediary divisive ideology which preaches a victim ideology. Many of these "Cultural Leaders" reinforce the idea that there are these boogeymen after every Hispanic and Latino. There aren't. There are however very weathy people who wish to use them as slave labor (to break the middle class).

I still believe its race based though. That's the only place we differ.

La Raza is a civil rights group for Hispanic people. Yes, a civil rights group. I know that must upset you that they would DARE to get together to defend themselves against racism, but you'll just have to live with it.

There is no racism against them. Many people are just angry because illegal aliens (OF ALL RACES, most of which are Chinese) are bankrupting hospitals, social safety nets, and schools around the country while lowering the standards of legal citizens....naturalized or otherwise.

[kahljorn]

kind of interesting that you need a union to have a middle class (your quote, right?) but unions are part of what makes globalization appealing...

[Colonel Flagg]

All the US economy is now a days is the middle man for production based manufacturing. [...] Hence why we are all outta jobs here.

Well .... yes and no. I work for a vertically integrated packaging company that buys raws from all over the world to manufacture the packaging right here in SEPA. The packaging is used to pack products sold in major grocery and specialty stores throughout the country and the world

I fully admit that we are small potatoes - however, there are thousands of companies just like ours serving manufacturing needs in niche markets throughout the private sector.

The reason you don't hear more about this is that many of these companies are so small they are privately held - as are we. As such they don't register on the "DOW" or "S&P" indices.

The job market isn't great but it isn't horrible either. You just need to know where to look.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

YEAH...JUST LIKE HOW IN MY CO-ED VOLLEYBALL LEAGUE IF WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH GIRLS ON OUR TEAM WE CAN STILL PLAY BUT WE AUTOMATICALLY GET AN OUT EACH INNING. HOW IS THAT SUPPOSED TO BE EQUALITY? THEY'RE BASICALLY ASSUMING THAT THEY ARE GOING TO GET AN OUT ON THEIR OWN.

[Zhukov]

:lol

[TheCoolinator]

Well .... yes and no. I work for a vertically integrated packaging company that buys raws from all over the world to manufacture the packaging right here in SEPA.

That's good but like you said its small potatoes in the country. The manufacturing base has been thoroughly devastated. One reason why the economy has fallen into this endless abyss. Jobs like yours are one of the only reasons why the US economy is still functioning.

Its amazing to see how greed can literally destroy a whole civilization.

kind of interesting that you need a union to have a middle class (your quote, right?) but unions are part of what makes globalization appealing...

Hello Mr. Negative Nelly,

What makes globalization appealing is bought and payed for politicians who can pass laws to destroy Unions and Privately owned businesses. Not Labor Organizations. It's basic in the sense that if you allow and give incentives to corporations to off shore their entire operation to save money on labor then they will do it. It's not because Labor Organizations ask for a living wage, it's because the system has been put in place to actually by pass 1st world workers....Union or Non-Union alike.

[Colonel Flagg]

^^^ No.

Small potatoes multiplied by thousands upon thousands is a significant fraction of this country's GDP. It probably doesn't equal one EXXON/MOBIL, but then again, their profits dwarf all but about 20 countries in the world.

Our "cottage industries" provide jobs, goods and services, and drive the economy from the ground, not the other way around. We can't afford not to do more with less, and the "less" comes in the form of running an agile, or lean organization, not from cutting wages or jobs. We're as big as we've ever been, and we're hiring more individuals.

I'm only speaking from one company's perspective, but I can assure you the movement is pervasive across industrial boundaries and organizational frameworks.

So, with all due respect, you are not speaking from a position of knowledge here. I am.

[The Leader]

I think he just means that American industry has been devastated compared to what it was, not that it's still not a sizable force. Of of course it is Coolie so I don't know. :x

[Zhukov]

What makes globalization appealing is bought and payed for politicians who can pass laws to destroy Unions and Privately owned businesses. Not Labor Organizations. It's basic in the sense that if you allow and give incentives to corporations to off shore their entire operation to save money on labor then they will do it. It's not because Labor Organizations ask for a living wage, it's because the system has been put in place to actually by pass 1st world workers....Union or Non-Union alike.
What kind of incentives to governments give to corporations to go offshore?

[TheCoolinator]

Small potatoes multiplied by thousands upon thousands is a significant fraction of this country's GDP. It probably doesn't equal one EXXON/MOBIL, but then again, their profits dwarf all but about 20 countries in the world.

Like TheLeader said,

I'm not saying that these small time manufacturers aren't there and making a difference. As said in my previous post, it's one of the reasons why the US economy is still crawling along. That doesn't change the fact that since Free Trade / Globalization has taken hold our manufacturing base has gone from 50% of the countries economy to less than 20%.

This has shown in the dwindling pay, jobs, benefits, and incentives for people to start their own businesses.

20% is a significant fraction of the economy but as manufacturing lowers so do the standard of living of the population.

And our oil fields need to be government run. Allow those superprofits to go to the people instead of going to the CEO and Board of a directors of a cartel.

Our "cottage industries" provide jobs, goods and services, and drive the economy from the ground, not the other way around. We can't afford not to do more with less, and the "less" comes in the form of running an agile, or lean organization, not from cutting wages or jobs. We're as big as we've ever been, and we're hiring more individuals.

I can't speak for your business. What I can do is acknowledge the reality of the economic situation that has been in a downward spiral since the 1960's.

The US citizens standard of living has been cut by 2/3 since then and continues to drop as long as big business is at the wheel of the ship. Your business is in the crosshairs of multinational corporations and every day of the depression that goes by more people loose their homes, businesses, and jobs.

I'm only speaking from one company's perspective, but I can assure you the movement is pervasive across industrial boundaries and organizational frameworks.

I hope you are correct, problem is that laws and taxes are created in a way to stamp out wealth from private individuals and to place a negative incentives on starting a business, ,manufacturing or otherwise.


So, with all due respect, you are not speaking from a position of knowledge here. I am.

If you were speaking from a position of knowledge, we would be agreeing....which we kind of are but you still have the rose tinted glasses on. Take them off and see the rubble field around you.

I think he just means that American industry has been devastated compared to what it was

Exactly, Watson!

The games a foot!

[Zhukov]

Should say:
What kind of incentives do governments give to corporations to go offshore?

[The Leader]

Tax breaks, for one thing.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

I think the labor is a LOT cheaper too.

[The Leader]

But that's not an incentive from government. >:

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

DON'T YOU SASS ME. >:

[The Leader]

YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD

[TheCoolinator]

I think the labor is a LOT cheaper too.

I guess we can say its an incentive by proxy.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

AND I NEVER WILL BE WITH THAT ATTITUDE.

[Colonel Flagg]

I'm not saying that these small time manufacturers aren't there and making a difference. As said in my previous post, it's one of the reasons why the US economy is still crawling along. That doesn't change the fact that since Free Trade / Globalization has taken hold our manufacturing base has gone from 50% of the countries economy to less than 20%.

Maybe so, but most of these jobs were from industries (paper, automobiles, steel) which were poorly run for decades. Fat dumb and happy were the executives, right before they all jumped ship with their golden parachutes. Chainsaw Al Dunlap comes to mind.

And I think that our CEO would take issue with you calling our sales figures small potatoes. We're not on the scale of a Proctor or 3M, but we do very well, thank you very much. >:

This has shown in the dwindling pay, jobs, benefits, and incentives for people to start their own businesses.

I'm not an economist, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, I would think the current job market gives one plenty of incentive to start their own business.

20% is a significant fraction of the economy but as manufacturing lowers so do the standard of living of the population.

The standard of living in the USA is not what it once was, but I would hardly call it "low" by any stretch. I'd reserve that right for countries like India or Brazil.

And our oil fields need to be government run. Allow those superprofits to go to the people instead of going to the CEO and Board of a directors of a cartel.

Say what? Now you're saying you want the GOVERNMENT to run the oil industry? You trust the government to do the right thing? Ummmm.....

I can't speak for your business. What I can do is acknowledge the reality of the economic situation that has been in a downward spiral since the 1960's.

You're right, you can't speak for our business. (We agree!) However, the economy has cycled more than once or twice since the 1960's. Both downward and upward. Unless you have some macroeconomic background of which I am unaware, I'm extremely skeptical of your "doom and gloom" take on things. It's just not that cut-and-dried, my friend.

The US citizens standard of living has been cut by 2/3 since then and continues to drop as long as big business is at the wheel of the ship. Your business is in the crosshairs of multinational corporations and every day of the depression that goes by more people loose their homes, businesses, and jobs.

In a phrase, "bring it on". That's essentially our corporate philosophy. We can compete with anyone from overseas, even with our labor base being domestic.

I hope you are correct, problem is that laws and taxes are created in a way to stamp out wealth from private individuals and to place a negative incentives on starting a business, ,manufacturing or otherwise.

No they're not. You need to understand the tax laws and how they can be read to favor small business and industry. In my view, the playing field has been leveled somewhat, and we've come ready to play.

If you were speaking from a position of knowledge, we would be agreeing....which we kind of are but you still have the rose tinted glasses on. Take them off and see the rubble field around you.

I only see the rubble of your ill-conceived arguments. :\

And before you provide me with an onslaught of links from newsworthy op-ed pieces, blogs and youtube videos, remember that I could do the same thing from the same links that support my point. It all depends on how you construct your google search parameters.

I lived through gas-rationing, 21% inflation and government cheese. The early 70's were the worst economic time-period in my memory. Compared to that, we're climbing out of a minor pothole on the highway of life.

[Tadao]

Fucking emo poser wanna be punk political fag cry babies, always getting in the way of my generations progress.

[Colonel Flagg]

^^^ WØRD.

Yo.

[Tadao]

BTW, My 40th is in September on the 17th, Flagg is the only one invited.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

>:

[kahljorn]

What makes globalization appealing is bought and payed for politicians who can pass laws to destroy Unions and Privately owned businesses. Not Labor Organizations. It's basic in the sense that if you allow and give incentives to corporations to off shore their entire operation to save money on labor then they will do it. It's not because Labor Organizations ask for a living wage, it's because the system has been put in place to actually by pass 1st world workers....Union or Non-Union alike.A system hasn't really been "put into place."

also if we didn't have unions /other standards which drive wages up and profits down than those companies wouldn't have benefited so much from moving to another country; many companies went basically bankrupt before they moved to mexico or other third world countries.

I guess we can say its an incentive by proxy.What you mean is its just an incentive in theworld because that's just the way things are. I hate how you can turn something so simple as, "PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING" to, "THE GOVERNMENT IS IN A CONSPIRACY to give inceNTIVeS TO CORPORATIONS BY ..." BY FUCKING WHAT? TRAVELING BACK IN TIME AND SABOtOGING COUNTRIES SO THAT THEY WILL HAVe cheAP LABOR AVAILABLE? WHAT THE FUCK.

WHILE YOURE At It WHY DONt YOU BLAME THE GOVERNMENT FOR PUTTING MOSt of tHe WORlDS oil AND ReSources in the sAME SPOTS CReATING AN "INCentive' foR RICh tYpes TO gO to thoSe PLACEs AND SET UP BUSINess AND HAVe conflictS OF INtEreSt WIth the locALS. DASTARDLY. OR BLAME tHEM FOR HAVing AN ATMOSPhjere tHAT CAN BE AffectEd by our ACTIONS. YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER BUT COULD TAKE ADVANTAge OF.

That doesn't change the fact that since Free Trade / Globalization has taken hold our manufacturing base has gone from 50% of the countries economy to less than 20%.Well technically globalization has been around fora longtime and all of those things didn't happen. At first it even benefited us. Anyway, what's your point? That there should be standards so that industries can't move their company to another country? What if they had these choices: Move to another country or Go bankrupt.

I guess what I'm saying is that unions and other american standards give corporations an "Incentive" to move to other countries.

Again, what is your political stance? more government? less government? perfect government according to coolie w/ infinite money and god mode?

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

Again, what is your political stance? more government? less government? perfect government according to coolie w/ infinite money and god mode?


:lol:lol:lol

I read everything and didn't skim. There's much better points that you made throughout. I only have time to LOL because work is busy today.

[kahljorn]

and you say that their goal is to DeStROY MIDDLE CLASSEs. But isn't it interesting that SOME of these companies that move to other countries increase the middle class of that country?

[Jeanette X]

I still believe its race based though. That's the only place we differ.Are you referring to La Raza?
There is no racism against them.You naive idiot. How can you be so mind-boggling stupid as to believe that Latinos aren't being hassled in this country due to race?

If you support the law, and I take it that you do, what exactly do you think that "reasonable suspicion" for stopping somebody and demanding to see their papers is? Do you really think that the cops won't use this as an excuse to hassle every brown person they see? That other minorities (such as the Chinese) won't be unfairly targeted?

That's exactly what I've been saying. It's an incediary divisive ideology which preaches a victim ideology. Many of these "Cultural Leaders" reinforce the idea that there are these boogeymen after every Hispanic and Latino. There aren't.

Sure there aren't. I'm sure you're in an excellent position to know what its like to be Latino in this country. I'm sure that you know far better than the cultural leaders and the people who listen to them about the issues facing Latinos today.

Hell, why don't we make you a cultural leader, since you know so much?

[Fathom Zero]

BTW, My 40th is in September on the 17th, Flagg is the only one invited.

What about me, you old fuck?

[Tadao]

NO, I PLAN ON DRINKING METAMUCIL AND WATCHING MATLOCK, YOUNG PEOPLE NEED NOT APPLY.

[Sam]

man I love Matlock i'm in.

[Fathom Zero]

Me too, there was an episode where someone tried to kill him by blowing a boat up. Shit was raw.

[Tadao]

I lived through gas-rationing, 21% inflation and government cheese. The early 70's were the worst economic time-period in my memory. Compared to that, we're climbing out of a minor pothole on the highway of life.

I was just reminiscing with my GF the other day about Carters gas crisis and how Reagan may or may not have kept Americans hostage until he won the election.

[Colonel Flagg]

Good Times. /Any time you meet a payment.
Good Times. /Any time you need a friend.
Good Times. /Any time you're out from under.

Not getting hassled, not getting hustled.
Keepin' your head above water,
Making a wave when you can.

Temporary lay offs. /Good Times.
Easy credit rip offs. /Good Times.
Scratchin' and surviving. /Good Times.
Hangin in a chow line /Good Times.
Ain't we lucky we got 'em

Good Times. (1974)

[Pentegarn]

That's 2 Good Times references in a week on this board. I think we officially made the quota :lol

[TheCoolinator]

Maybe so, but most of these jobs were from industries (paper, automobiles, steel) which were poorly run for decades. Fat dumb and happy were the executives, right before they all jumped ship with their golden parachutes. Chainsaw Al Dunlap comes to mind.

"Maybe so” ?

And we aren't discussing how they're run; we are discussing how laws and regulations have been put in place to encourage off shoring of our manufacturing base. Which HAS happened, there is no "Maybe so". There is the giant sucking sound of our jobs going down the drain.

And I think that our CEO would take issue with you calling our sales figures small potatoes.

I believe you were the one that referred to yourself as small potatoes.

I'm not an economist, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, I would think the current job market gives one plenty of incentive to start their own business.

I person who is in debt and getting paid half what the guy before him made is "plenty" of an incentive to start their own business?

And I'm not going to bring up all the taxes, licenses, and selectively enforced regulations that small businesses have to follow. Did you know in the new Obamacare bill private employers MUST provide healthcare for their workers? That will bankrupt a large portion of them, allowing the giant companies like Wall-Mart, Target, to move in.

Why didn't they just expand Medicare?


The standard of living in the USA is not what it once was, but I would hardly call it "low" by any stretch. I'd reserve that right for countries like India or Brazil.

"not what it once was"

That's the understatement of the year. US citizens living standard has been cut by 2/3rd ! College graduates can't even get jobs washing lettuce at the local Jack-In-The-Box. Older workers are having to take jobs at drastically reduced pay. Depression!

Why? Because of Free trade, destruction of the manufacturing base, and corporate welfare.

Say what? Now you're saying you want the GOVERNMENT to run the oil industry? You trust the government to do the right thing? Ummmm.....

If the government was run by the people for the people then common sense would suggest that all the natural resources in this country our ares....not to make private individuals mega profits to use against the American people. Try getting a bill that gives significant funding to Alcohol, Biofuel, Biodiesel, as a fuel source. Not going to happen because of the Oil cartels lobbyists. AKA Bribes.

However, the economy has cycled more than once or twice since the 1960's. Both downward and upward. Unless you have some macroeconomic background of which I am unaware, I'm extremely skeptical of your "doom and gloom" take on things. It's just not that cut-and-dried, my friend.

You cannot compare the present depression to anything in past events, this is so many times worse than it ever was before that Carters / Reagan's / Bush recession will look like a sunny day compared to what's in store for this country.

If you count up all the money that has been spent on bailout and then count up all the Derivative debt that's STILL on the books of the investment banks and still being created then it is 10x the amount of the global GDP.


In a phrase, "bring it on". That's essentially our corporate philosophy. We can compete with anyone from overseas, even with our labor base being domestic.

I highly doubt that. How can you or any other business compete with people making 25 cents an hour?

It's impossible. I'm sure you have a lot of customers but you as like others have been can be undercut in a heart beat.

Watch: Wall-Mart - The high price for the low cost

No they're not. You need to understand the tax laws and how they can be read to favor small business and industry. In my view, the playing field has been leveled somewhat, and we've come ready to play.

Are you kidding me? Small businesses cannot compete against multinational corporations. The laws that are on the books are directly squarely at small business while large corporations get a free pass, pay literally no taxes, get tax incentives, and welfare.

Have you seen all the "For Rent" signs around? Take a trip down to your local shopping center. I bet half of it is empty.

It will be here soon and the rose tinted glasses will have to be adjusted. You'll see. The bailouts, austerity, countries in turmoil, and the drop in DOW is just the beginning. The dam will break soon.

Are you referring to La Raza?
You naive idiot. How can you be so mind-boggling stupid as to believe that Latinos aren't being hassled in this country due to race?

Because they aren't. We have a huge illegal alien populations destroying our society. It isn't focused at latinos its focused at committing the crime of entering the country illegally.

If you support the law, and I take it that you do, what exactly do you think that "reasonable suspicion" for stopping somebody and demanding to see their papers is? Do you really think that the cops won't use this as an excuse to hassle every brown person they see? That other minorities (such as the Chinese) won't be unfairly targeted?

Unfairly targeted? Last time I checked everyone whose gotten pulled over by a police officer in the last century has had to show their drivers license. If a police officer sees a bunch of people waiting to be picked up for work and they are all kinds of races he has more then enough reasonable suspicion to ask for all their identification.

We have to remember here that its fault of both the employer of illegal aliens fault AND the illegal aliens themselves.

They are both committing crimes and harming the social fabric of this country NO MATTER what race they are.


Sure there aren't. I'm sure you're in an excellent position to know what its like to be Latino in this country. I'm sure that you know far better than the cultural leaders and the people who listen to them about the issues facing Latinos today.

Hell, why don't we make you a cultural leader, since you know so much?

You should, I can teach you how to not use infantile expletives in a conversation.

La Raza and other ethnocentric groups are here to cause fissures within our society. They are here to push a race war between Hispanic / Latinos and whites / blacks.

The Ford Foundation is to push blacks into a race war against whites / Latinos.

This is all blatant incendiary rhetoric being placed out there to agitate the local populace into attacking each other instead of going after the real criminals. Wall street.

[Zhukov]

You believe that a select group of "oligarchs" rule the world and plan for the extermination of the poor through fluoride in water and withholding healthcare, and ALSO that the destruction of society is coming about through illegal immigrants?

[TheCoolinator]

You believe that a select group of "oligarchs" rule the world and plan for the extermination of the poor through fluoride in water and withholding healthcare, and ALSO that the destruction of society is coming about through illegal immigrants?

No.

[Dimnos]

No

[The Leader]

And you also believe that we are in a depression right now even though you say that things will become worse than they were in the '70s? Wouldn't that mean that right now we are in a recession which will lead to a depression... You know, after things get worse than they were in the '70s and they're as bad as they were after '29?

[Jeanette X]

Because they aren't.
(citation needed) :blah

We have a huge illegal alien populations destroying our society. It isn't focused at latinos its focused at committing the crime of entering the country illegally. And I thought you said it was WALL STREET that was destroying society, not immigration. Make up your mind.

Do you really think that if they wanted a law that would unfairly target Latinos, that they would write explicitly that way?

Unfairly targeted? Last time I checked everyone whose gotten pulled over by a police officer in the last century has had to show their drivers license.It isn't having to show your license, its the BEING PULLED OVER IN THE FIRST PLACE. Minorities are pulled over far more than whites.

If you police officer sees a bunch of people waiting to be picked up for work and they are all kinds of races he has more then enough reasonable suspicion to ask for all their identification.
La Raza and other ethnocentric groups are here to cause fissures within our society. They are here to push a race war between Hispanic / Latinos and whites / blacks. (citation needed) :blah
This is all blatant incendiary rhetoric being placed out there to agitate the local populace into attacking each other instead of going after the real criminals. Wall street. Because any discussion of race and how it continues to divide society is INCENDIARY AND IT WILL AGITATE TEH BROWN PPL! WE MUSTN'T DISCUSS RACE! WE MUSTN'T TALK ABOUT IT! WE MUST IGNORE THE ISSUE AND HOPE IT GOES AWAY!

HOW DARE THOSE PEOPLE OF COLOR DISCUSS RACIAL ISSUES! ITS NOT LIKE THOSE ISSUES AFFECT THEM IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!

[Grislygus]

holy shit, Coolinator is an oligarchy nutter? I've talked to one of you people in person :eek you guys make the lunar landing theorists look sociable

[Grislygus]

or was zhukov just making that shit up to get a rise out of him

[TheCoolinator]

And you also believe that we are in a depression right now even though you say that things will become worse than they were in the '70s? Wouldn't that mean that right now we are in a recession which will lead to a depression... You know, after things get worse than they were in the '70s and they're as bad as they were after '29?

No.

We are in the second phase of a depression. The recession started in 2008 and by January it was considered a depression.

We must remember the definition of a Recession and that of a Depression. Recessions only last a few months.....after those select number of months then it is defined as a depression.

2008-2010 = Depression - Job losses, bankrupt banks, credit freezes, bailouts, bankrupt states, forclosures, etc, etc, etc...

Just because the men on television keep referring to it as a "Deep Recession" or a "Credit Crunch" that's just another way of saying DEPRESSION.

Do you really think that if they wanted a law that would unfairly target Latinos, that they would write explicitly that way?

This law targets illegal aliens of all kinds. The word illegal immigration doesn't just revolve around Latinos. It's a race-less crime. Race is an irrelevant issue here.

And to top it all off.....all this is, is a copy and paste of the already existing federal law that was not enforced. People are sick and tired of this lack of enforcement. They don't care was race commits the crime. They just want the law to be enforced. Stop listening to these "CULTURAL LEADER" race baiters. We all know Al Sharpton is a joke....why listen to people who are saying the same exact thing to create controversy.

It isn't having to show your license, its the BEING PULLED OVER IN THE FIRST PLACE. Minorities are pulled over far more than whites.


(citation needed) :blah

Because any discussion of race and how it continues to divide society is INCENDIARY AND IT WILL AGITATE TEH BROWN PPL! WE MUSTN'T DISCUSS RACE! WE MUSTN'T TALK ABOUT IT! WE MUST IGNORE THE ISSUE AND HOPE IT GOES AWAY!

HOW DARE THOSE PEOPLE OF COLOR DISCUSS RACIAL ISSUES! ITS NOT LIKE THOSE ISSUES AFFECT THEM IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!

This law isn't about race. It's about breaking the law or not breaking the law. If you're an Legal / Natural Born American citizen then you don't have anything to worry about. If you're here illegally then you're committing a crime.

I don't care if your green or blue skinned. Its called breaking the law. Skin color is irrelevant.

[RaNkeri]

You believe that a select group of "oligarchs" rule the world and plan for the extermination of the poor through fluoride in water and withholding healthcare, and ALSO that the destruction of society is coming about through illegal immigrants?
No

Why throw out your hazardous waste for a cost, when you can call it a medicine and sell it to the public as a profit?
Ummmm.... :confused
Why? Because of Free trade, destruction of the manufacturing base, and corporate welfare. Ummmm..... :confused:

If the government was run by the people for the people then common sense would suggest that all the natural resources in this country our ares....not to make private individuals mega profits to use against the American people. Try getting a bill that gives significant funding to Alcohol, Biofuel, Biodiesel, as a fuel source. Not going to happen because of the Oil cartels lobbyists. AKA Bribes. Ummmm.... :confused:
The laws that are on the books are directly squarely at small business while large corporations get a free pass, pay literally no taxes, get tax incentives, and welfare.

The bailouts, austerity, countries in turmoil, and the drop in DOW is just the beginning. The dam will break soon. Ummmm.... :confused:
La Raza and other ethnocentric groups are here to cause fissures within our society. They are here to push a race war between Hispanic / Latinos and whites / blacks.

The Ford Foundation is to push blacks into a race war against whites / Latinos.Ummm...:confused:

And you also believe that we are in a depression right now even though you say that things will become worse than they were in the '70s? Wouldn't that mean that right now we are in a recession which will lead to a depression... You know, after things get worse than they were in the '70s and they're as bad as they were after '29?No

You cannot compare the present depression to anything in past events, this is so many times worse than it ever was before that Carters / Reagan's / Bush recession will look like a sunny day compared to what's in store for this country. Ummm....:confused:

[TheCoolinator]

Ummm....

Your point? :confused:

[The Leader]

No.

We are in the second phase of a depression. The recession started in 2008 and by January it was considered a depression.

We must remember the definition of a Recession and that of a Depression. Recessions only last a few months.....after those select number of months then it is defined as a depression.

2008-2010 = Depression - Job losses, bankrupt banks, credit freezes, bailouts, bankrupt states, forclosures, etc, etc, etc...

Just because the men on television keep referring to it as a "Deep Recession" or a "Credit Crunch" that's just another way of saying DEPRESSION.
No, the definition of a recession is a significant decline in activity spread across the economy, lasting longer than a few months, as you previously posted in another thread. You had trouble reading your own definition in that thread too, though. It's already been pointed out how you don't seem to understand how bad things were in the recession of the '70s, let alone the depression of the '30s so I'm not surprised that you would consider what's going on now as a depression. It'd blow your mind if you went to live in a third world country for a few months.
Your point? :confused:
He was pointing out how you contradicted yourself.

[Dimnos]

Coolie, you got Jeanette to post more and for that I thank you. :) However that aside you can still go fuck yourself. >:

[TheCoolinator]

No, the definition of a recession is a significant decline in activity spread across the economy, lasting longer than a few months,

So we agree then that we're in a depression.

The economy is in a significant decline in all sectors and it has lasted longer than a few months. It's been over a year now......actually its been a couple of years now. 2008-2010. Wouldn't that mean it has went from a recession....to a depression?


I don't understand the mental obstacle here? It's very obvious.

[The Leader]

You don't understand it because you can't even see when you contradict yourself. You can't even read! :lol

[Dimnos]

I can still afford my house, gas, food and insurance as well as pay my bills. Nothing to be depressed about here. :\

[TheCoolinator]

You don't understand it because you can't even see when you contradict yourself. You can't even read!


Recession definition

A significant decline in activity spread across the economy,
lasting longer than a few months. It is visible in industrial production, employment, real income, and wholesale-retail trade.

Depression definition

A severe and prolonged recession characterized by inefficient economic productivity, high unemployment, and falling price levels.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Recession



Are we in a prolonged recession? If so (2008-2010) then we are officially in a Depression. Acknowledge reality.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

PEOPLE THINK THE ECONOMY IS SO BAD BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NEW POOR. MY CITIES ECONOMY IS GREAT.

[The Leader]

[b]

Are we in a prolonged recession? If so (2008-2010) then we are officially in a Depression. Acknowledge reality.
You write that a recession is a significant decline in activity spread across the economy lasting longer than a few months. You then write that this recession has been going on for more than a few months. In order to be a recession, the decline must last more than a few months. We are in a recession by your definition and your posts, and you obviously have no knowledge of what things were like in the '30s. You really need to get some help with analytical thinking.

[Pentegarn]

Quote dictionary.com all you want Coolie, but you fail to prove 10% qualifies as 'high unemployment'. The fact is that the prolonged period of 4% unemployment was a fluke, and not at all the norm. 10% unemployment is uncomfortable, but it is not high by honest standards. Not when the rate during the only depression we have ever had were 3 to 5 times that amount.

But I won't stop at that flow in your argument Coolie, your definition calls for a severe recession. This recession is not at the rate of severe, it isn't even as bad as the 70s were, but you want us all in a state of panic (for what I am now forced to believe is for sinister motives) so you not only insist it is a depression, (despite history, facts, the actual definition of a depression, the direct comparison of the 70s recession to now, and everyone posting here disagreeing with you), but then you try to bend reality around your words in a sad desperate attempt to get us all to join you in your log cabin in Montana

[Pentegarn]

In other news, Coolie will be using this article to disprove evolution

http://aquarium-fishtalk.com/evolutionists-how-do-you-explain-sea-monkeys/

[Colonel Flagg]

Damn. Coolie, I can't tell if you are purposely talking like a complete moron, or if you're doing it just to get everyone angry at you. Truly you need a verbal smackdown.

And the small businesses are there, and they're growing in number.

And the only one who said we were in a depression was you. As I recall, no one agreed with you.

I'll have to start calling you Cassandra, except she was right most of the time, and you're just wrong.

Again, only my opinion. I know you'll take issue with this, and either ignore me, or contradict me again. That's how you win arguments, right?

EDIT: I forgot the best part (thanks, Kahl)

I highly doubt that. How can you or any other business compete with people making 25 cents an hour?

Very easily, but if you can't understand why you're wrong about small businesses, you won't understand the reason:

It's called kanban, and it's something we had to learn from the Japanese (hence the word). We can provide product in a day, when overseas companies with unskilled workers and shittier raws can provide the same product in weeks. This gives local companies (such as ours) a significant advantage over offshore corporations. It's why most Japanese companies now make cars in the USA. And it's not a secret - comapnies in SEPA are learning how to incorporate this into an overall business strategy that allows them to do more with less, and keep their workforce employed and well-paid. Win-win situation, big guy.

[kahljorn]

WEEE:
how laws and regulations have been put in place to encourage off shoring of our manufacturing base.

Like what? Unions? Environmental regulations? Health codes? Not allowing child labor?
I hope that they get rid of these things so that our manufacturing base can rise again :rolleyes

I person who is in debt and getting paid half what the guy before him made is "plenty" of an incentive to start their own business?

Wow, what a generalization. All small business owners are now getting paid half of what every other small business owner got before the "Depression."
:rolleyes

And I'm not going to bring up all the taxes, licenses, and selectively enforced regulations that small businesses have to follow.

:lol i'm sure you're not going to bring up anything which would be relevant to your point.
Small business firms MUST Provide health coverage? Interesting:
HERES A QUOTE FOR YOU:
"C. Exemption from Employer Responsibility Requirements
Both the House and the Senate bills would give medium and large firms a financial incentive to provide health insurance coverage to their employees through pay-or-play provisions. These would serve to reduce the financial incentive that some firms have to stop providing employer-sponsored health insurance. However, firms with payrolls or employment levels below a certain threshold would be exempt from these employer responsibility requirements. The proposed thresholds would exempt the vast majority of small firms."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/documents/CEA-smallbusiness-july24.pdf
Oh hey look, everything you said is wrong -- again.

US citizens living standard has been cut by 2/3rd

Living standards don't constantly rise. Did you know that recessions are considered a natural part of the economy?
College graduates can't even get jobs washing lettuce at the local Jack-In-The-Box.

Maybe they shouldn't have majored in psychology and law.

If the government was run by the people for the people then common sense would suggest that all the natural resources in this country our ares

You don't understand the difference between democracy and capitalism? You don't understand the difference between socio-political systems and economic systems?

:lol You're even dumber than I thought.

Try getting a bill that gives significant funding to Alcohol, Biofuel, Biodiesel, as a fuel source.

Uhh, well significant funding is a relative term, but there's plenty of funding for this type of shit. one thing to consider is that NOTVERY MANY PEOPLE DRIVE alternative energy vehicles because the cars are expensive and its a new, developing technology -- meaning we don't know how reliable it is yet. Interestingly there are tax credits for those who shell out the money to buy them. There's even tax credits for producing ethanol and shit.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=Advanced+Energy+Research+Project+Grant&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=c78e48b898b2787e (http://[URL=%22http://[/U%22)
there's one of the sources of funding
I highly doubt that. How can you or any other business compete with people making 25 cents an hour?

because people who make 25 cents an hour don't have degrees in chemistry, a highschool education or anything else which is probably necessary for his job?

We must remember the definition of a Recession and that of a Depression. Recessions only last a few months.....after those select number of months then it is defined as a depression.Wrong again. Many RECESSIONS have lasted more than a few months. Coolie, What is an L-shaped recession?

The answer is a type of recession that can last two or more years. The japanese asset price bubble was an L-shaped recession that lasted 5 years. Look what wikipedia says under L-shaped recession:
"Because the late-2000s recession (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_recession) in the United States followed a similar economic bubble (the United States housing bubble (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_housing_bubble)) some economists fear the U.S. economy could enter a prolonged period of low growth even after recovering from the recession"

:rolleyes

A significant decline in activity spread across the economy,
lasting longer than a few months.
two years is longer than a few months, so i don't see the problem.

Depression definition

A severe and prolonged recession

Severe and prolonged is a relative term. SO LETS looK At SOME FAMOUS DEPRESSIONS AND SEE HOW LONG THEY LASTED SO We cAN GEt AN IDeA Of how 'pROLOnged' a depression is:
According to HISTORY, the great depression lasted about TEN YEARS (and it could easily be argued that it lasted longer).
The "LONG DEPRESSION" lasted 23 YEARS.
Panic of 1937 was a five year long depression, whose affects lasted years after.

SO, at the very least a prolonged recession should be around FIVE YEARS? What are we at? Two years? We're fine. ALSO L-SHAPED RECEsSIOn. Remember the L-shaped recession in Japan lasted at least five years.

COOLIE'S ARGUMENT IN A NUTsHELL:
BEING TALL IS LIKE BEING OVER SIX FEET TALL. BEING VERY TALL IS LIKE BEING EXTRA TALL. COOLIE IS 6'2, THEREFORE HE IS VERY TALL BECAUSE THATS EXTRA TALLNESS!


PS L-shaped recession rapes your argument in the assgina.

[Jeanette X]

This law isn't about race. It's about breaking the law or not breaking the law. If you're an Legal / Natural Born American citizen then you don't have anything to worry about. If you're here illegally then you're committing a crime.
Once again, what constitutes the "reasonable suspicion" that a person is illegal and that a cop should demand their papers, if not race?

I'm waiting.

(citation needed) You don't believe me that minorities are pulled over more than whites? You're even more naive and stupid than I had initially believed. Allow me to show you:
http://www.chicagoreporter.com/index.php/c/Cover_Stories/d/Driving_While_Latino
From the article:
Latino drivers are being stopped at a higher rate by the police than their share of the driving-age population, and they are more likely to have their cars searched than their white counterparts, shows a Chicago Reporter analysis of 2007 traffic stop data collected by the Illinois Department of Transportation.The Reporter’s analysis also found that Latino drivers were asked for permission to search their cars at a higher rate in 25 out of the 44 communities than white counterparts—despite the fact that Latinos were less likely to be found in possession of contraband.

[Jeanette X]

Coolie, you got Jeanette to post more and for that I thank you. :)

Love you too. :)

[kahljorn]

I have a feeling you're going to be waiting a severe, prolonged period of time for your answer :O

[TheCoolinator]

La Raza is good.....



If you look at the paper trail La Raza, one of the most incediary Latino Ethnocentric groups, gets most of its money from Wall-Mart. We have to realize that this is social engineering. Controlling the minds of these defenseless immigrants and turning them on the American people.




Walmart Foundation Awards $1.2 Million to National Council of La Raza

http://foundationcenter.org/pnd/news/story.jhtml?id=292300002


(swish) :love

[The Leader]

Good job ignoring Kahljorn and trying to win an argument by writing things like "swish" and "next."

Next.

[kahljorn]

fortunately, I don't even expect responses :(

Coolie:
walmart gave them some money? So what? I don't understand what your point is. you were right about them getting money from walmart? Did somebody argue that point with you?
Do you think the fact that walmart gave them some money makes the rest of your arguments less retarded? Is that what you were swishing? that you got one, irrelevant fact correct out of everything you have posted?

We have to realize that this is social engineering. Controlling the minds of these defenseless immigrants and turning them on the American people.Do you think the fact that walmart gave them money makes this part true? like, because one part of your argument was true the ridiculous part must also be true? How is it social engineering? How are they turning them on the american people by giving them money to help them join our job force. HEY HERE"S SOME MONEY GUYS, ARENT WE JUST ASSHOLES?

you're a retard.

[Pentegarn]

What do you expect? He lives in a cabin deep in the woods of Montana (with all the other crazy conspiracy theorists).

I am surprised he even has internet to be honest.

[kahljorn]

he doesn't live in a cabin deep in the woods of montana, HE IS A CABIN DEEP IN THE WOODS OF MONTANA :O :O :O :O

the cabin is autonomous and its consciousness is satellite internet :O

The recent immigration bill will affect him because his lumbers were jacked from the pristine forests of canada; MAKING HIM AN ILLEgAL IMMIGRANT

I KNEW IT

SWISH!

[Pentegarn]

That's a very very horrible beast you just described :lol

[kahljorn]

i got it from a movie ;/

ALSO FROM REALTY

I MEAN REALITY

[Pentegarn]

That was a clever piece of business :lol

[Colonel Flagg]

You can connect to the internet, if you power your computer from a hand-cranked generator. THEY FOLLOW YOU THRU TEH ELECTRICICL WIRIGINGS!!!

EDIT: and, of course, you need your AFDB.

[TheCoolinator]

Good job ignoring Kahljorn and trying to win an argument by writing things like "swish" and "next."

Next.

There are no winners or losers here, there is only reality and the individuals capability to view it for what it is.

If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanta change the world?
There's nothing
To it......

http://ny-image0.etsy.com/il_430xN.54284600.jpg

[Zhukov]

There is no reality here. Only fluoride and oligarchs and you're an idiot that has been shown for nothing less than brainless in all of your threads so far.

[TheCoolinator]

There is no reality here. Only fluoride and oligarchs and you're an idiot that has been shown for nothing less than brainless in all of your threads so far.

Don't be bitter.

You should read up on who funded the communists into power. You'd probably find it interesting.

[Zhukov]

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Zhukov]

I fucking DARE you to start that thread. I will bury you.

[Dimnos]

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would just fucking LOVE to see that shit go down. :lol

[Tadao]

:rolleyes

[Jeanette X]

(swish) :love

The Walmart Foundation also gives to scholarship programs, as well as hunger relief, disaster relief, and other causes. I suppose that makes those charities EVIL LACKEYS OF TEH CORPORATE MACHINE as well? :blah

[kahljorn]

:lol I like how what he said didn't even imply anything like that. It was more like:

LA RAZA + WALMART = ?

IF YOU WANTED TO BE GENEROUS YOU COULD SAY IT WAS:
LA RAZA + WALMART = ? + PREVIOUS IMPLICATIONS

[The Leader]

There are no winners or losers here, there is only reality and the individuals capability to view it for what it is.
But right there you are saying there are winners and losers, most people who can dissect information and see the world for what it is and people like you you seem to have difficulty even understanding their own point of view.:x

[Colonel Flagg]

Dim is right, this thread is dead. :(

[TheCoolinator]

Dim is right, this thread is dead.

Awww...

I still wanted to see people squirm from the Wall-Mart funding La Raza article.