Dow falls over 500 points

[TheCoolinator]

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks selloff sharply Thursday, extending the recent downturn as investors continued to worry that Europe's debt problems will slow a bigger global economic recovery.


The Dow Jones industrial average (INDU (http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=INDU&source=story_quote_link)) lost as much as 570 points in volatile trading. At 2:45 p.m it was down 480 points, or 4.4% lower. The S&P 500 index (SPX (http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=SPX&source=story_quote_link)) slipped 32 points, or 2.8%. The Nasdaq composite (COMP (http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=COMP&source=story_quote_link)) dropped 78 points, or 3.3%.


http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/06/markets/markets_newyork/index.htm


Hold on to your hats! Dow just went below 10,000 points......:rock

[The Leader]

"It's a knee-jerk reaction to the continued problems in Europe, Greece in particular, possibly Portugal, Spain, the U.K.," said Ted Weisberg, NYSE Floor trader, Seaport Securities.
It's all because of foreigners.

[Colonel Flagg]

No, it is at 10,485 as of 2:57 PM. Off 383 pts.

Coolie, what planet do you live on?

EDIT: It's now off about 450-ish. The only thing you're right about is there was a sell-off today.

BFD. :blah

[Fathom Zero]

Greece had a bunch of riots last night. Nice stuff. Doesn't help the economy that the entire country catches on fire every couple of years.

[Colonel Flagg]

HOPA!!!! :rave

[Tadao]

http://endlesschatter.com/images/2009-02-18-cartoon.jpg

[Tadao]

Some believe that automated trading is what made it sink so low.

[Dimnos]

Its all the fags on Scottrade.

[Tadao]

I have a hard time believing someone accidentally sold billions when they meant millions. Perhaps they are just saying that to ease the fears of traders.

:conspiracy

[TheCoolinator]

No, it is at 10,485 as of 2:57 PM. Off 383 pts.

Coolie, what planet do you live on?

EDIT: It's now off about 450-ish. The only thing you're right about is there was a sell-off today.

BFD. :blah

It dipped below 10,000 and then the plunge protection team bailed it out with our tax dollars.

At the highest point it was down 900. :sleep

[Tadao]

then the plunge protection team bailed it out with our tax dollars.


That's pure speculation, right?

[TheCoolinator]

That's pure speculation, right?

No, they jumped right in. They have to by law. And its not private money they are using to stabilize the markets its the treasuries.

[Tadao]

Oh, I don't get the Illuminati Network channel.

[TheCoolinator]

Oh, I don't get the Illuminati Network channel.

The Working Group on Financial Markets (AKA Plunge Protection Team)

Established March. 18, 1988 Executive order 12631

Sec. 2. Purposes and Functions. (a) Recognizing the goals of enhancing the integrity, efficiency, orderliness, and competitiveness of our Nation's financial markets and maintaining investor confidence, the Working Group shall identify and consider:

http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1988/031888d.htm

[Tadao]

Working Group on Financial Markets

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Claims about the Working Group, which are labeled conspiracy theories by some writers, generally include that it is an orchestrated mechanism that attempts to manipulate U.S. stock markets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_market) in the event of a market crash by using government funds to buy stocks, or other instruments such as stock index futures—acts which are forbidden by law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Group_on_Financial_Markets

[TheCoolinator]

Working Group on Financial Markets

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, :lol

Thanks for the wikipedia quote.

Did you read the actual executive order I linked above? You know, the one signed by Reagan. The president.

[Tadao]

The one where it says on May 6th, 2010 save the stock market and don't tell anyone?

No, I didn't actually see that quote.

[Pentegarn]

Hold on to your hats! Dow just went below 10,000 points......:rock

It has been bouncing back and forth across the 10k line for awhile now. What's your point here?

October 4th 2008 it dipped below 10k

Hell it hit below 7k March 2nd 2009

Yeah... this means something... this is important

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q1/Pentegarn/images-22.jpg

[TheCoolinator]

What's your point here?

That the Dow dipped a lot today. :|

[Pentegarn]

October 15th 2008 it dropped 733 points

October 28th 2008 it rose 889 points

Do you see why nowadays one day is meaningless yet?

[TheCoolinator]

October 15th 2008 it dropped 733 points

October 28th 2008 it rose 889 points

Do you see why nowadays one day is meaningless yet?

I wouldn't say its meaningless. Its continuing its plunge but market manipulators are trying keep it a float for a little while long. The only analogy I can make is a drunk trying to get the last few drops out of a empty bottle.

[Colonel Flagg]

It dipped below 10,000 and then the plunge protection team bailed it out with our tax dollars.

At the highest point it was down 900. :sleep

October 15th 2008 it dropped 733 points

October 28th 2008 it rose 889 points

Do you see why nowadays one day is meaningless yet?

I wouldn't say its meaningless. Its continuing its plunge but market manipulators are trying keep it a float for a little while long. The only analogy I can make is a drunk trying to get the last few drops out of a empty bottle.

Tadao is right, Coolie, this is your opinion. Nowhere does it say that the Reagan White House made a law creating a shadow market manipulation task force and authorize them to use tax dollars to buy toxic assets. They had to write an entire public piece of legislation that had to pass both houses of congress just to get the authority to bail out the financial houses in the first place.

Why would they need to do that, if they had this handy Reagan task force?

Stop with the conspiracy theories already. This is what gets you into trouble. Post crap like this where it belongs, in the conspiracy thread. >:

[TheCoolinator]

Tadao is right, Coolie, this is your opinion. Nowhere does it say that the Reagan White House made a law creating a shadow market manipulation task force and authorize them to use tax dollars to buy toxic assets. They had to write an entire public piece of legislation that had to pass both houses of congress just to get the authority to bail out the financial houses in the first place.

Why would they need to do that, if they had this handy Reagan task force?

Stop with the conspiracy theories already. This is what gets you into trouble. Post crap like this where it belongs, in the conspiracy thread. >:

Colon,

please,

I posted an article about how the market dipped and then I just posted an executive order that clearly shows the creation of a market stabilization team.

Whats the problem? Why so hostile?

[Colonel Flagg]

I posted an article about how the market dipped and then I just posted an executive order that clearly shows the creation of a market stabilization team.

Fine.

Don't go further and make stuff up about tax dollars being used clandestinely to buy up stocks to shore up the market. If you want to discuss reality, then fine, we can do so like gentlemen. Everything past that needs to go into the conspiracy thread.

Sorry for my "angry" emoticon, but I'm not feeling well right now and that drivel really pissed me off.

(I've probably drunk too much fluoridated water.)

[Pentegarn]

I want to know, what do you gain from trying to convince us the sky is falling Chicken "Coolie" Little?

The fact is this is a recession that is not quite as bad as the 70s but for a frame of reference is most comparable to the 70s.

Yet you keep trying to use smoke and mirrors to convince us we are about to relive 1929.

Where are the massive bread lines?

Where are the 30-50% unemployment rates? (notice the plural, the dying city of Detroit that depended on an automotive industry that no longer exists doesn't count)

Where are the masses of workers wandering from city to city?

Again, were you hoping the i-mockery readers would scream and run away from their computers in a panic only to start looting in the streets, start fires, eat the dead, declare civil war?

What is your motivation here? Because you do not act in any rational pattern that I have ever seen. You just try to incite panic and fearmongering, and you do it poorly

[TheCoolinator]

^ The depression thread has been locked. This thread is based on a news article about how the Dow dipped 500-900 dollars yesterday.

If you want to talk about the depression, then make a new thread.

[Colonel Flagg]

Actually, the front page of today's Inquirer states that someone may have fat-fingered a trade at the NYSE which resulted in a boatload of AmeriTrade/E-Trade computerized activity which drove the bungee-market we saw yesterday. If this is indeed the case, expect to see some new rules and regulations concerning computerized trading in the near future.


A trading glitch, dubbed a fat-finger trade, was suspected of sparking the sell-off. CNBC and other financial news outlets reported that a Citigroup trader may have erroneously substituted "billion" for "million" in a large sale. And computer-generated trading may have made matters worse.

Citigroup and Procter & Gamble said they are examining trading activity on their stocks.

There was no major news to justify the sell-off. Neither the U.S. nor Canada released any significant economic reports, and what was released -- building permits in Canada and initial jobless claims in the U.S. -- was mildly positive.

[Zhukov]

I heard that on the news just then. To be honest it seems a little convenient, but I don't care enough to care.


Interesting that something so harmful to the economy can come about through a small mistake. Not a great message they are sending out about the strength of the free market.

[Pentegarn]

^ The depression thread has been locked. This thread is based on a news article about how the Dow dipped 500-900 dollars yesterday.

If you want to talk about the depression, then make a new thread.

And this thread is your transparent attempt to point us in the "we are in a depression" direction

So my post is both valid and unanswered. Nice try though.

[Colonel Flagg]

There you go again, babbling on about logic and sense.

[Pentegarn]

What was I thinking :lol

[Evil Robot]

The DOW average is meaningless as an economic indicator. Anybody who is concerned over this is a fool. None of the people on I-Mockery have the kinds of assets that are at risk from this. You are all fools and derilicts.

[Pentegarn]

You are all fools and derilicts.

A fair cop. but I deny deny deny thinking the world as we know it is coming to an end because stocks fell 500 points :lol

[TheCoolinator]

It dropped again by 130. I heard that one of the hedgefunds blew out and that's why the market dropped so fast. I wonder how low it can go?

[The Leader]

Forever, hypothetically.

[Colonel Flagg]

I think it might stop at zero though.

[Evil Robot]

I dont think Coolie even knows what the DOW is or how its calculated and here he is trying to sound smarter than us by pretending its an emergency worth making a thread about.

[Pentegarn]

It dropped again by 130. I heard that one of the hedgefunds blew out and that's why the market dropped so fast. I wonder how low it can go?

You do know the actual reason for the drop was because of a human error in a single trade caused a false panic right? That the plummet you are "The sky is falling!" about is a big human error fueled mistake (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Trading-Error-at-Major-Firm-cnbc-434682061.html?x=0)?


Multiple sources said a trader entered the letter "b"-as in "billion"-when he or she meant to type "m," for "million," shortly before 2:47 p.m. New York time.


U.S. stocks plunged suddenly, briefly by more than 9 percent, before pulling back to a near 3 percent drop, as investor worries mounted that Greece's debt problems could spread.

So your entire argument is now supported by a single typo :lol

[Colonel Flagg]

WA BAM

[Blasted Child]

I think all these stock market rollercoasters and crises and whatnot show what a frail system capitalism is. It's never about real stuff, like real shortage of food or real disasters, it's just about speculations, worries, expectations and rich people gambling with money.

I mean seriously, this recent crisis, whose aftermath we're still enduring, what was it the result of? War? Droughts? Asteroids? Aliens? No, just people playing with money. Artificial values, figures on computer screens, air castles. Makes me a bit sick

[kahljorn]

it doesn't really have anything to do with capitalism.

[Zhukov]

I was thinking the exact same thing; I don't see how "Oops, it was a typo/computer error" really makes the whole structure of things look any more reassuring.




Also, Kahl, I was under the impression that it did.

[Pentegarn]

The problem with blaming capitalism is you are blaming something disguised as capitalism for everything when the actual case is that all those things, (speculation, futures, market shares, et al) are not the true meaning of capitalism as it was meant to be.

Capitalism should be trading value for value. Things like speculation, futures, stocks, and the like are not true capitalism, where person A has a tangible thing person B needs and person A makes the best quality of that thing available. That was how it was once long long ago and when it was that way, America did nothing but grow, it wasn't until the stock market was introduced that these intangible financial crises began to appear. Before that, it was all about real events effecting the market (like Blasted mentioned, shortages, war, etc).

Real capitalism does not exist any more so the argument that capitalism is a failed system can't be truly proven by any event in the last century

[Blasted Child]

Pentegarn, fair enough, I can agree with what you're saying (however Kahljorn's "reply" leaves a bit to wish for), even though I think you may be splitting hairs a bit. It sounds a bit like when communists defend communism in the similar fashion ("what we've seen haven't been true communisms").

For most people, economists included, value-for-value trading isn't some sort of mandatory ingredient of a financial capitalism. However, the complex system of financial intermediaries that toy with money that isn't theirs is sort of a cornerstone.

Let's at least agree that the whole process of spending money that doesn't exist is symptomatic of a capitalism. It's also precisely what's caused the recent crisis.

[kahljorn]

money doesn't really exist anyway :(

[Zhukov]

Real capitalism does not exist any more so the argument that capitalism is a failed system can't be truly proven by any event in the last century

It might sound like I am a huge hypocrite here, but the difference (or at least, what I see the as difference) between saying:

"That wasn't true communism" (which, I probably said a lot in my more-youthier times)

and

"It's not true capitalism"

Is 1) the simple answer is that communism is a stateless society, and the 'Communist' parties of the 20th century merely called themselves Communist because that's what they purported to be aiming for, not what they actually had achieved, which I can delve into further if you REALLY want to :rolleyes

2) The 'speculation, futures, stocks' etc are all 'symptoms' (yes, you beat me to it) of what you can call the healthy capitalist time period. Communism has had no such period. All the foundations for what you see as just not true capitalism were lain there, and it hasn't taken any serious revolutions to get to where it is now. It has evolved into what it is now, at no ones surprise, from 'true capitalism', with no other avenue available to it. Is it still wrong to criticise capitalism if baseless trading was always the inevitable conclusion?

You could argue that Stalin did this, evolved it, but he couldn't do it without killing opponents, changing laws and principles and contradicting himself, other communists and also the ideals of the whole thing. So much so that the question has to be asked "what is left?" the answer being "very little".

You can say it's not true capitalism, but the world is still run by the capitalists who have legally evolved it without contradicting what has always been the number one ideal; capital making money. Capitalism isn't about trading tangible item A with tangible item B; they had that in ancient Greece too. Any laws you are talking about are to do with a country, not an economic system, because the economic system just says "make capital". That used to mean through owning a factory and making shoes, now it means through buying and selling as well as owning the factory.

If we are going to leave it as it's "symptomatic of capitalism" that's fine by me though.

[TheCoolinator]

I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.

Proctor and Gamble's derivative dabbling took their stock from 60 to 30.

I wonder how many more will succumb to this derivative mess.

[Colonel Flagg]

I heard that one of the hedgefunds blew out and that's why the market dropped so fast.

I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.

No need to state your theory twice, we all read it the first time.

Except maybe you?

[Evil Robot]

I heard that they reason why it fell was because a Hedgefund busted and all of those worthless derivatives were shown to the market.

Proctor and Gamble's derivative dabbling took their stock from 60 to 30.

I wonder how many more will succumb to this derivative mess.
Yeah fuck that shit. We should abandon the stock market so nobody can raise money for large projects and just go back to trading beads for pieces of cloth.

[Evil Robot]

Everybody's stupid except for you coolie, you ******.

[TheCoolinator]

No need to state your theory twice, we all read it the first time.

Except maybe you?

lol, whoops.

Sorry, I don't pay too much attention to this thread. I probably should of said "Now I know for sure" that a hedgefund blew up and leaked there derivative debts onto the market hence the drop.

[Colonel Flagg]

No it didn't.

[TheCoolinator]

No it didn't.

Proctor & Gambles stocks were slahed by half the other day because of derivatives debt and there was another stock that went from 40 dollars to a penny.

Hope those people invested in commodities because their paper backed assets just fell into the shredder.

[Colonel Flagg]

By the way, the Dow is up over 350 points today. Should we make a new thread?

[TheCoolinator]

By the way, the Dow is up over 350 points today. Should we make a new thread?

It will drop again. The only reason why it's going up is because they are signing the EU bailout bill. Once the bailout money evaporates we will see another market crash.

Ahhhh....Corporate Welfare! Zombie banks getting injections of liquid formaldehyde.

[Evil Robot]

You do understand that the market goes both up AND down right? If you were really as smart as you say you are you would have been overjoyed about the 400 point fall and bought stocks which were temporarily undervalued. Your like one of those assholes that thinks real estate can only go up in value.

[Evil Robot]

Did you even know that there is more than one stock exchange? Your just focusing in on the DOW like a fucking laser beam and you havent even had one mention of the other markets.

Name one company that trades on the DOW. I don't mean go look it up, I mean off the top of your head. I bet you don't know.

[Fathom Zero]

COCA COLA

[Pentegarn]

Pentegarn, fair enough, I can agree with what you're saying (however Kahljorn's "reply" leaves a bit to wish for), even though I think you may be splitting hairs a bit. It sounds a bit like when communists defend communism in the similar fashion ("what we've seen haven't been true communisms").

That's just it though, while communists can say that, they have no era where communism works effectively to use as a basis of comparison, while capitalism does. Yes, the stock market, speculation, and futures may be a side effect of free trade, (though I tend to call them a cancer, as I prefer investors be people shaking hands with other people as opposed to what we have in the stock market now) but they weren't always there, and when they weren't the economy was only effected by tangible occurrences like war and shortages. That is my point when I say "true capitalism" versus this mockery of capitalism we try to pass off as free trade and value for value nowadays.

[Evil Robot]

Coca Cola trades on the NYSE

[Colonel Flagg]

Disney

[Fathom Zero]

STATE FARM

[Tadao]

YOUR MOMS PUSSY

[Fathom Zero]

GREECE. :rolleyes

[Evil Robot]

FLUORIDE