Kids behaving badly (in public)

[Kitsa]

I almost saw a toddler off himself yesterday.

I was behind them going into a hospital to pick something up, and you could see how it was going to be from the beginning. Kid was running around wildly, a good 10-15 feet from the mom at all times, and she wasn't paying a damn bit of attention. In front of the hospital, the kid actually darted into the street, and the valet had to shout and call him back. The mom just kept on walking.

So inside the hospital, the mom is still just moseying around and the kid is going berzerk, jumping on chairs and running into people and climbing into the registration ladies' cubbyholes to snatch stuff off their desks. He'd grab files and throw them on the floor and laugh. Everyone waited for the mom to say something and she never did. You could see people looking at each other like, "Should I?" A couple of patients told him to stop and get off the chairs, but he'd just laugh and do it more. Then the employees started on the mom, telling her she couldn't just let him run around like that. She only responded once, lifting him by one arm and swatting him on the ass, saying he couldn't "go bye-byes" with her "no more". He kept on, and soon employees and random old ladies were chasing him around.

The area we were in was on the second floor and the layout is kind of like a shopping mall. There's a cutaway with a short glass-bottomed railing, then a shelf with plants, then a good 20-25 foot drop to the marble floor below. Of course this kid climbs the railing and balances by his waist, head down, trying to reach the plants. There was a collective gasp. It was like one of those "Amazing Videos" clips about to happen. Now everyone is up and at the railing, even people who were hobbling, wheeling, or dragging themselves over. Everyone except the mom, of course, who is asking the registration woman questions like nothing is happening. A cleaning lady is shouting at the kid, trying to talk him down. People are trying to reach for his leg without knocking him over. People are running for the elevator and stairs.

The registration woman finally gets the mother's attention off herself and points. The mom just sighs, grabs the kid by the leg, drags him back and plops him in the chair at the registration desk. "You sit here while momma goes to the bathroom or else we won't go bye-byes no more."

No one could believe it.

Best part....she was about 7 months pregnant with another one.

What would you have done?

[Grislygus]

Let the little hellspawn die, that would be my decision. With any luck the mother would have gotten severe depression, eventually drowned her NEW baby and offed herself. Nice, tidy, and non-genocidal cleansing of the gene pool.

[The Leader]

Pushed him over.

[Grislygus]

I mean, some people have bad parenting instincts and some people have good instincts, but it's amazing how many moms you see in public that have NO instincts. I remember one of my old girlfriends coming with me to pick up supplies at a local art supply place; when we got to the check register we were stuck behind two people; an older woman trying to pay a $125 with a slew of coupons (and being told no, repeat process) and a young mother and her four year old child.

While we waited for the old woman to stop being a wrinkletard (for fifteen minutes) we got to watch the four year old boy go batshit crazy while it's mother laughed nervously. It was sniveling and being cranky, and we accepted the mother's initial diagnosis of "needs his naptime". Until he started pulling magazines out and throwing them. The mother continued to laugh as she repaired the carnage. Then the kid calmed down and began laughing. Then he got excited again and started running in circles. Then he saw the candy and grabbed several, bringing them over to Mommy. SHe said no. Cue the screeching temper tantrum and throwing of candy bars. Mommy laughs and looks at us, expecting the reaction to be "how ADORABLE." I smile weakly, desperate for her to stop looking at me, my girlfriend at the time is glaring, mommy continues to laugh.

Kid calms down for the next ten minutes, chattering happily. Mommy finishes at the register. Mommy says that they get to go home now.

Suddenly, without warning, Hellspawned Thing's face goes into purple-black storm mode and is bawling and screaming (in that one particular level of severe toddler-rage) "NO! SHUT UP! SHUT UP! NO!" then the scream-pitch intensifies with the bellow of "YOU IDIOT!"

I wanted to slap it, I wasn't ready to have that reaction. It actually shocked me that I wanted to crack a four-year old upside the head; I've never felt anything like it before. It was the combination of screaming IDIOT at it's mom and that ugly tone that kids get when they are completely beyond control. My girlfriend was shooting poison daggers out of her eyes and Mommy laughed.

Then the kid calmed down immediately and left the store with Mommy.

[Chojin]

yeah, i hope it isn't illegal to put kids in submission maneuvers by the time i have one.

[Kitsa]

My kid does now and will always sit on my lap in waiting rooms. Running around is not going to be an option. When my kid starts to act up somewhere, we go outside until it's out of her system. Nothing fun happens while we're outside.

When I was a kid, we lived in perpetual fear of being taken to THE CAR. Everyone knew what happened when you got taken to THE CAR. No one wanted any part of THAT particular shit.

My brother, as an elementary schooler, once ran away from my mom in an apartment store and she had him overhead-paged, by full name, to the bra department.

[Dimnos]

Thrown a piece of candy over the side?

[Chojin]

the shitty thing about the story in the OP is that if the kid did take a tumble, the mother would inevitably have sued the hospital and possibly anyone in proximity to him.

[Kitsa]

That's what I was thinking, too.

[Tadao]

Leash laws.

[Fathom Zero]

I wore a leash. Worked, too, until I was old enough to undo the thing. But at that point, I wasn't really running around the store. If I did, we left for a while. To go outside.

[Dimnos]

My grandmother threatened to beat us with a yardstick. They were not empty threats either. :tear

[Fathom Zero]

I haven't seen many leashes lately, though. In fact, I saw one some months ago and I was amazed. Not because I find them cruel or something, but I think that everyone else thinks they are. My mum was with me and she was just as surprised. And while I can't imagine that they'd be illegal any time soon, I know people personally that would be aghast or some shit that they would treat a child that way.

[Kitsa]

With this particular mother, I can't see her being arsed to even hold one end of the leash. Everyone in the waiting area (well, except for one asshole who just sat back and laughed like the kid was hilarious) was stunned that the kid was acting so fantastically bad and the mom was doing absolutely nothing about it. I mean, I have never seen a kid behave this badly in public EVER, and I worked 8 years in an ER.

Usually, a kid will have a boundary and will sit up and take notice when the right person tells them they've crossed it. Sometimes it takes the mom snapping at them, sometimes if a stranger says something it'll scare the shit out of the kid and get them to behave. This kid had noooo boundaries whatsoever. It was almost as if he hadn't been socialized the slightest bit. Even a kid who's being bratty won't jump up on a registration person's desk, grab her papers, throw them into the waiting room and laugh, or sneer at a stranger who's telling him to get down off the chair before he hurts himself.

[Colonel Flagg]

About how old was the little monster? because she sure was talking to him like one would a yapping poodle.

I'd always found that if you treat the children like adults, they start responding like adults a lot sooner. It helps with the 2-4 year range.

It's been working so far ....

Then again, in this case, it sounds lik you would have had a better chance of seeing God himself.

[kahljorn]

Makes you wonder what happens to those old dudes who smack bratty little shitheaded children, doesn't it?
prolly nothing.

maybe you guys could've called the police for child endangerment and for there being an unattended child?

[Pentegarn]

Once upon a time parents were legally allowed to beat their kids and it was a golden age

[Colonel Flagg]

I remember getting spanked on my bare ass in a department store once. Whatever I did, I'm sure I deserved it.

[Kitsa]

I'm not exactly sure of the kid's age, I'm just estimating from babysitting/au pair experience. He was a little guy who was just at that stage where he's stomprunning like hell and laughing all the way. I'd say maybe 2, 2 1/2.

I think that the abandoned child thing was never thought of because the mother...physically, at least...was there. Why she chose to ignore him, I'm not sure. She seemed very practiced at tuning him out. She seemed like the kind of mom who would forget him at a gas station, realize it 50 miles down the road, shrug and keep driving.

I'm not saying she should have beaten the kid. I'm saying she should have KEPT HOLD of the kid and told him to stay with her, don't run away, be good, stop that. Even a pregnant woman in (what looked like) her late forties can overpower a 2 year old.

[Zhukov]

Is it illegal to hit your child in the US? It's not here, not yet anyway, and I honestly think it can be a positive thing if used correctly.

My dad used to hit my sister and I probably to levels that would register child abuse now, but it certainly kept us in line. The main form was a clip around the ear, or a slap across the cheek for mistakes, but if you did something wrong on purpose you were taken out to the cow shed and taken to with a leather strap.

I don't think levels like that are necessary to teach discipline, but until children reach a certain age where you have taught them to understand the meaning of right and wrong, a small, non damaging (bruises show up to social services >: ) whack across the thighs or something can certainly teach a child that whatever they did was wrong. How are you meant to reason with a two year old that throwing papers around and yelling is wrong, if not giving them an deterrent that they can understand?

I'm sure everyone has seen situations where there is some pathetic mother begging with her child to stop rampaging and to be good. I think a firm hand, both literally and figuratively is needed to curb this blight that is menacing our American way of l... uh. I think it can be used effectively.

[Kitsa]

How did this turn into some sort of expansionism debate? I think there are misbehaving children just about everywhere, and the ones who aren't are living in fear of authority and just biding their time.

I know that the whack across the ass that this kid received did nothing.

[Zhukov]

You're telling me that a good thrashing wouldn't have stopped you? You must have been a pretty brave kid.

[Kitsa]

My childhood was slightly different due to physical condition and hospital stints. I did call my mother's bluff once when I threw a fit about leaving a public pool and she threatened to drop me off and leave me there....apparently I exited the car quite happily, convinced that I could set up some sort of camp in the wilderness area adjoining the pool. I had to be dragged back to the car.

[Zhukov]

:lol Yeah, I know that feeling. Ran away a few times with a rucksack full of bananas and vegemite sandwiches. It's funny how they always seemed to last about 30 seconds before I'd get bored of myself and go back home so I could sit in my room by myself.

[TheCoolinator]

Children need more beatings......I would have instructed this oblivious little strumpet on how to teach a child how to listen by intense physical abuse. Canes, shoes, crowbars, anvils, sledgehammers, and sharpened bamboo rods.

Worked on me.

[Tadao]

That would explain your paranoia.

[Dr. Boogie]

I'll bet the woman in the OP still breastfeeds the kid.

[Blasted Child]

First of all, that kid didn't behave like that just because he never had any boundaries or reprimands, nor because he is evil and deserves to get beaten. This is clearly someone who's either suffering from ADD or some other of the numerous abbreviations within the autism-spectrum, or possibly some kind of post-traumatic stress.
Sometimes people read too much into parenting, as if kids can't turn into loose cannons as long as they're kept on a short leash. Of course, in this case bad parenting was part of the problem, but I've worked with really disastrous kids who have come from perfectly functional families.

I feel infinite sympathy for this kid. I hope he can get into some kind of day center with adequately trained professionals, get Ritalin or similar amphetamine based treatment, lots of special schooling etc etc.

And no, beating children is never good, in any way. There is always a better solution.

[Kitsa]

I hear you, but I don't know that this particular little hellion had a spectrum disorder. He was making eye contact with various people, vocalizing well, etc. Maybe "no boundaries" parenting and an actual disorder are getting closer and closer in their manifestation.

Anyway, autism or not, the toddler nearly went over a rail headfirst. I've heard one child's skull crack open before, on the marble floors of Water Tower Place in Chicago, and I have no desire to hear it ever again. I was trying to calculate how fast, with my particular limitations, I could make it to the rail and make a grab for him if someone else couldn't get to him first.

No matter what was wrong with the child, there was no excuse for the mother's whole laissez-faire attitude and her not making the slightest attempt to manage him.

[Tadao]

First of all, that kid didn't behave like that just because he never had any boundaries or reprimands, nor because he is evil and deserves to get beaten. This is clearly someone who's either suffering from ADD or some other of the numerous abbreviations within the autism-spectrum, or possibly some kind of post-traumatic stress.
Sometimes people read too much into parenting, as if kids can't turn into loose cannons as long as they're kept on a short leash. Of course, in this case bad parenting was part of the problem, but I've worked with really disastrous kids who have come from perfectly functional families.

I feel infinite sympathy for this kid. I hope he can get into some kind of day center with adequately trained professionals, get Ritalin or similar amphetamine based treatment, lots of special schooling etc etc.

And no, beating children is never good, in any way. There is always a better solution.

AND THIS IS ALL FACT CAUSE I CAN TELL EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS KID FROM WHAT LITTLE I HAVE READ

[Blasted Child]

No matter what was wrong with the child, there was no excuse for the mother's whole laissez-faire attitude and her not making the slightest attempt to manage him.

Oh, absolutely.
And I'm also of the conviction that bad parenting is the cause for the majority of all the crap that goes on in the world, crimes etc, but to me it just sounded like this kid suffered from more than merely lack of discipline.

[Colonel Flagg]

[...] teach a child how to listen by intense physical abuse. Canes, shoes, crowbars, anvils, sledgehammers, and sharpened bamboo rods.

What the world needs now, are canings, vicious canings .... :\

Anyway, autism or not, the toddler nearly went over a rail headfirst. [...] No matter what was wrong with the child, there was no excuse for the mother's whole laissez-faire attitude and her not making the slightest attempt to manage him.

I brought this situation up to a friend, and they wondered if anyone called social services or the police on her ass? Because this kind of parenting (especially with the child nearly going over the rail) if not classic child abuse or child endangerment, it certainly speaks of neglect.

Unfortunately, the best place for that child may be in foster care. :( At least while the dipshit takes and passes a few parenting classes.

[TheCoolinator]

What the world needs now, are canings, vicious canings .... :\

Yes. Make them public as well.

? Because this kind of parenting (especially with the child nearly going over the rail) if not classic child abuse or child endangerment, it certainly speaks of neglect.

I don't agree with the Foster parents / calling social services on her part but from what the initial post described it's definitely Child Endangerment and Neglect.

Best thing for the child is to allow Darwinism to take its course. Not all kids can make it to the ripe old age of 10. Some have to go. It's the way of the jungle.

[Tadao]

That's the first smart thing you have ever said.

[TheCoolinator]

That's the first smart thing you have ever said.

:love

[Colonel Flagg]

I don't agree with the Foster parents / calling social services on her part but from what the initial post described it's definitely Child Endangerment and Neglect.

The problem with ^^^ this is that as a foster parent myself this behavior could be viewed by law enforcment officials as a mandated reportable situation. As a mandated reporter by law it is my responsibility to report suspected abusive or child neglect situations. If I don't report it, and something happens to the child, I could be held liable for not reporting it earlier. It part of the responsibility you take on when you become a foster parent. And it happens more often than you might think.

The Darwin comment was very witty, by the way, but pardon me if I don't particularly care for this brand of humor. :( It's not you, it's me. :\

[Pentegarn]

It is his Guernica of posts.

Personally I too have always found it a bit hypocritical that we encourage teaching Darwinism in schools, but then in the real world we refuse to practice it. We have all sorts of laws that protect not just stupid kids, but stupid adults as well. Which leads to watering the human gene pool with more stupidity. :(

[Zhukov]

What you are as a child isn't what you grow into being. 'Darwinism' isn't applicable to humans as we have the ability to grow and change so much. Humans have different opportunities in life than other animals, and can learn from our mistakes.

And on the subject of hitting children; there is no need to actually hurt them. A slap across the thighs can let a child know they've done something wrong without actually hurting them, whereas taking them aside and explaining that jumping on the counter and throwing paper around is a bad thing to do isn't really going to make much sense to someone that young.

In my opinion.

[Blasted Child]

I can never tell if people are being ironic in here or not. Pentegarn, you think it's hypocritical that we teach Darwinism in school, but not apply it to our society? This is dumb on so many levels.
When schools teach darwinism it's to describe evolution - there's no subjectivity, no saying whether it's right or wrong. Schools teach about the inquisition too, without endorsing torture and witch hunting.

Also, the whole "let darwinism take its course" argument is just rotten to the core. It implies that we would have a better society if the weaker individuals vanished. I think the biggest reason our world stinks is political and economical malpractice, greed, aggressions etc etc, and in a purely survival-of-the-fittest society such things would thrive and not go away.

And regarding the child in question...you who advocate beating or potentially letting him die (allowing Darwinism to take its course, sigh) is this a typical i-mockery jargon, or do you actually not feel sorry for him? Don't you wish for him proper care and a good home? His problems are probably mainly the result of many horrible experiences during his short life, it's not like those factors will be recorded somehow in his genes.

[Zhukov]

If you are addressing me, then no, I don't want to "beat" him or let him die, and I do feel sorry for him.

[Tadao]

http://eroundlake.com/blog/uploaded_images/dudley_do_right-703696.jpg

[The Leader]

I can never tell if people are being ironic in here or not.
You idiot.

[Grislygus]

That's not the actual definition of ironic, but ignoring that I was convinced that Blasted Child was being magnificently sarcastic with his first post in this thread :(

[Colonel Flagg]

:lol@Tad

[Kitsa]

I still think that the child was an unfortunate recipient of a profoundly shitty parent.

[kahljorn]

DARWIN SHOULD KILL THEM BOTH

THEIR SOULS ARE HIS

[TheCoolinator]

Bad Children should be forced to fight in Thunderdome. The only difference is that they will use Fisher-Price chainsaws instead of real ones.

http://www.thundersquee.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/bm2002-0968-08292340-thunderdome.jpg

[Evil Robot]

BAD CHILDREN SHOULD BE FED FLUORIDE TO KILL THEM

[Blasted Child]

You idiot.

Huh? Well sorry for trying to write something sensible, instead of just spewing out ironic uppercase oneliners.

[Pentegarn]

:rolleyes

[kahljorn]

Moronic? MORONIC? FUCK YOU.

OH YOU SAID IRONIC.

[Pentegarn]

Why can't both be accurate?

[The Leader]

Huh? Well sorry for trying to write something sensible, instead of just spewing out ironic uppercase oneliners.
Why do you post on a site called i-mockery if you can't pick up on sarcasm and don't understand what irony is?

You also apparently have a shit sense of humor and are kind of a wet blanket.

[Blasted Child]

Eh... well don't let me disturb you when you cook up that wonderful comedy you've got going
ta

[TheCoolinator]

Eh... well don't let me disturb you when you cook up that wonderful comedy you've got going
ta

Wonderful indeed....:lol

[kahljorn]

not exactly the same as the original topic of this thread but the other day my girlfriend and i were eatting lunch and we saw this like probably 2-3 year old kid running around outside without pants on.
we live downtown near the intersection of two of the busiest streets in town and people drive like assholes around here. Anyway the kid kept like running around going up to people's doors, walking around people's houses, wandering around aimlessly and suddenly sprinting out into the road and shit ;/ plus all these cars kept stopping like they were gonna help/kidnap, but then they just drove off.

anyway after he ran through the busy intersection without even looking around we went down there to see if shit was alright. He ended up being in our sideyard wandering around where there's like broken glass and shit cause the landlords never clean over there and bums like to sleep there. we tried to talk to him but he was all scared and shit ;/ we walked down the street towards where he pointed that he lived and eventually his mom popped around a corner on her phone ;/
STUPID FUCK

she didn't even say THANKS or anything.

[Pentegarn]

That merits a call to child services IMO

[kahljorn]

you're prolly right :O

my girlfriend was on the phone with the cops :lol but once the lady showed up for her kid they were like "OK WHATEVER I HATE MY JOB"