So much for our freedom of speech.

[Immortal Goat]

This article is old, but it scares the shit out of me.

read this (http://www.progressive.org/0901/roth0102.html)

If this isn't scaring you, then you must not love your personal freedoms all that much.

[mburbank]

I'm just glad the FBI and CIA are using my tax dollars so wisely and efectively.

[Immortal Goat]

I hadn't even thought about the tax money thing, Max. Now i'm scared AND pissed off! >:

[ranxer]

http://amigaphil.planetinternet.be/pic/nowar30.png

[Zhukov]

Which country does Osama control?

[ranxer]

country? meh, he's one of the great satans we are fighting.. what do you want to say? that osama doesnt belong in that image?

bush has this one both ways..
http://ameba.lpt.fi/~visktuom/kuvat/iraq.jpg

dont forget that 'if you're not with us your against us' so if you don't like giving up your freedom you must be a terrorist

[Zhukov]

"...Conduct their crusades, or contain their people."

Sorry, I thought it said "and" instead of "Or".

I love it how resistance fighters are automaticaly "terrorists" in Iraq. They are killing soldiers, not civillians. Oh well.

[El Blanco]

They are killing soldiers, not civillians. Oh well.

Yes, they are. You think those car bombs are going off just inside barracks? Or are those large hotels US big shots are using aren't in the middle of crowded cities?

[Immortal Goat]

LOL at Ranxer! :lol

[Abcdxxxx]

At first I thought this article was written by the Onion....

Everyone just wants to be on THE LIST. This doesn't describe anyone "acting" against these people, or any arrest for "anti americanism". This describes an investigation. The warrant issues are concerning, except for these people allowed the supposed agents to enter the premises and gave them tours.

I have concerns around these laws and freedom restrictions, but none of these examples really outraged me. I'm sure there are some that would. Where are the specific examples of the "government restricting freedoms" ? Not in this article.

Private blacklisting isn't McCarthyism. Sorry, but freedom of speech doesn't protect you from sometimes looking like an asshole and offending people.

[Immortal Goat]

No, it doesn't protect you from looking like an asshole, you are right. BUT, it SHOULD protect you from investigations by the FBI and Secret Service. They asked that girl if she had stuff for the Taliban because of a goddamned poster that poked fun at Bush! If that isn't a violation of SOMETHING, then the government is more fucked up than I would have imagined.

[ranxer]

the government IS more fucked up that you imagined..
i'm reminded of this every day. it's more fucked up than I imagined!

[Abcdxxxx]

If she's allowed to have an anti-Bush poster then why aren't people allowed to ask her idiotic questions about it?

These stories pose more of an inconveniance then a threat...and we know that there are actual things going on that ARE a threat. The sophmoric article you posted just belittles the seriousness of the situation by paying attention to a bunch of petty whining.

So what, agents are snooping in dorm rooms? I mean I care cause it's absolutely pathetic, but that's been going on for at least fifty years now, even before Ashcroft was around. If you're going to be disturbed by this, then try being disturbed at whatever paranoia allowed a girl to INVITE these people in without a warrant. You can order a badge over the internet.

You kids really wanna have nightmares? You can't use a gas card or credit card without being tracked. When you use an EZ Pass while passing through a toll, you're being tracked. When you walk through major intersections in major citys, your face is being logged and tracked by hidden cameras. Yawn, yawn. yawn.

[kellychaos]

If she's allowed to have an anti-Bush poster then why aren't people allowed to ask her idiotic questions about it?


The First Amendment.


If you're going to be disturbed by this, then try being disturbed at whatever paranoia allowed a girl to INVITE these people in without a warrant. You can order a badge over the internet.


While it is indeed her right to do so, asking for a warrant would indicate paranoai more so than inviting them in warrantless. I don't understand your use of the word "paranoia" here. A person is paranoid when they invite someone who claim to be law enforcement officials in without a warrant? That's not paranoia. Maybe they're gullibile, too trusting or perhaps even stupid but not paranoid.

[The One and Only...]

LOL at Ranxer! :lol

Yeah, I like laughing at Ranxer too.

Since I am so uber.

Makes me feel manly...

[Abcdxxxx]

Visions of grandeur? Mistrust? You're not letting CIA into your house because you trust them and you're confident of your innocence. You're letting them in out of concern and fear that there's some reason to be persecuted, and you doubt your innocence means much within the system... or you'd make them follow the system and get the warrant.

Our government learned and perfected how to ruin the lives of dissidents decades ago... to think these agents have ANY reason to enter your dorm room without a warrant...and then to let them do it... is dumb as fuck. Maybe instead of whining about it, these people should take a stand and say "no". Maybe if they really understood what they were whining about they'd know that insisting on a warrant, and documentation was for their own protection... and in a roundabout way, yours and mine. Instead, they're paranoid that the FBI might have them on a list mistaking them for the next coming of Abby Hoffman.

[Zhukov]

Yes, they are. You think those car bombs are going off just inside barracks? Or are those large hotels US big shots are using aren't in the middle of crowded cities?

You are perfectly right. Sorry, that was stupid of me to say. What I was thinking of was the 15 US soldiers killed recently, terrorist tactics, aparantly. :/

[Drew Katsikas]

As bad as the techniques the Feds are using, some of the people they're snooping on are just fucking stupid.

The girl who wants to start an anarchist club in her PUBLIC school. What the fuck, is she just dumb?

And I'd love to see how that one "America is to blame for Sept 11th" lady would have responded to it had it been her relatives in the building. Granted, we have a bully foreign policy, often, but that doesn't mean you can be so insensitive to a very tragic situation.

[Perndog]

Why can't people be as insensitive as they want? Isn't that another thing covered by free speech?

[ranxer]

if we werent responsible for 9-11 why was the investigation of who was responsible hindered at every step by the bush administration? why is it still being hindered?

hey drew, did ya know that we were the original financiers of the Al Qaeda network? did you know that we helped set up the madrasas for religious extremism?

more on the clampdown of free speech today..
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1122-09.htm

F.B.I. Scrutinizes Antiwar Rallies
by Eric Lichtblau

WASHINGTON, Nov. 22 — The Federal Bureau of Investigation has collected extensive information on the tactics, training and organization of antiwar demonstrators and has advised local law enforcement officials to report any suspicious activity at protests to its counterterrorism squads, according to interviews and a confidential bureau memorandum.

Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union
The memorandum, which the bureau sent to local law enforcement agencies last month in advance of antiwar demonstrations in Washington and San Francisco, detailed how protesters have sometimes used "training camps" to rehearse for demonstrations, the Internet to raise money and gas masks to defend against tear gas. The memorandum analyzed lawful activities like recruiting demonstrators, as well as illegal activities like using fake documentation to get into a secured site.

F.B.I. officials said in interviews that the intelligence-gathering effort was aimed at identifying anarchists and "extremist elements" plotting violence, not at monitoring the political speech of law-abiding protesters. <snip>

SHEEOT.. i can see it now.. "sorry folks 20 people in a group.. you need a permit.. it's for your own protection.. oh, and this is your first ticket.. 3rd one and its a felony don't forget to call and let us know next time.. um, so we can keep you safe"

[Drew Katsikas]

Why can't people be as insensitive as they want? Isn't that another thing covered by free speech?

They can, but they're still pricks. They shouldn't get the lockdown from the Feds either.

And Ranxer, I never denied the responsiblity of the US. But you don't fucking talk about how bad the US is when your country just got attacked and a bunch of people are dead. Clearly, this lady was an insensitive fuck. You don't talk about that kind of crap until after some kind of emotional recovery period.

[CrazyAmericanScum]

Yeah I have to say it is kind of bothersome, but again if you really know you are not guilty of anything make them get the warrent and come back.

[Perndog]

I don't see anything wrong with insensitive pricks. Doesn't hurt me any, and if it offends people then the people who are offended should get some thicker skin.