Life changing experience

[Big McLargehuge]

Last night i took 4 grams of dried p. cubensis. I now look at the world in a completely different way. Everything is wonderful and everybody is wonderful. I don't want this day after feeling to fade. Can anybody relate?

[Protoclown]

fuck you

[Vibecrewangel]

Well, cause it's me I gotta ask.....

How was it?
And how does it compare to other substances? If you can make the comparison that is.

[sspadowsky]

I felt that way after listening to Ray Stevens. Cheaper, and a lot less hallucinatory.

[mburbank]

If you've finished the rice, it's time to wash the bowl.

[Helm]

Did I mention I ate a locust once?

[Big McLargehuge]

Well, cause it's me I gotta ask.....

How was it?
And how does it compare to other substances? If you can make the comparison that is.


The only other substances i have used are DXM, Marijuana, Alchohol, and Tabacco. And none of these compare. The DXM was like a milder psylobin in terms of hallucination, but the emotions and thoughts were not there. The experience defies definition, it was like waking from a dream and entering reality for the first time. I felt as if the body was a prison i was glad to escape. THe whole experence was good untill the last two hours (It was about a 7 hour trip). For the last two hours i felt like i have heard Psycosis described. I couldn't stop my thoughts from flowing, and i felt tortured by what felt like demons in my mind. I believe these wouldn't have been problems had I not taken such a large dose. The most amazing thing was the way i was able to observe people. Every person was wonderful. Faces were incredible, they all seemed porcelin and constantly morphing. I wish that i could tell you how it was accurately but it cannot be described.

[Helm]

It is exactly because of one's inability to discuss that sensory status when not under it's influence that I believe any insight gained through such means to be ultimately meaningless, dangerously misleading and philosophically (I use this word in the most generic sense) meaningless. :square

[Big McLargehuge]

Yes, but i remember the experience. I just can't put it into words. Can you put the way you feel when your in love into words? It is very similar.

[Vibecrewangel]

Sounds like an overall good trip. Shrooms are the one drug I both love and hate. They take me places nothing else does. And make me a bit more openly critical of myself. Depending on where my thoughts go this can be very good or very bad. Though I have never had the typical "bad trip", only trips where I was faced with something I didn't like. If you let it, a "bad trip" can become one of the most enlightening experiences. You end up learning a lot about yourself if you are open to it.
And Slavadore Dali makes a lot more sense...... :)

What you describe is a pretty standard trip.

Helm - describe the taste of broccoli or chocolate. Do it in a way that someone who has never tasted the substance would understand. You can try all you like, but until someone has tasted it themselves it won't mean anything. Without the benefit of experience any description is essentially meaningless. Drugs are no different.

Bad as it may sound, it's why I am open to trying almost anything. To have the benefit of experience. So that when someone describes free fall to me, I can draw from things I have felt in the past to help me understand something I haven't done (yet). Book knowledge is great. But it is still no substitute for practical experience.
Who would you rather have operate on you? Someone who has read every book on the subject or someone who has actually performed the operation in question.....

Not that I am saying drugs are a good thing and everyone should try them. Just that to judge the experience of is unfair. Unless it is your experience.

BigMc - Don't "try" to put it into words. If you do, you will end up stripping the meaning from it. Eventually, the words will come.

[Anonymous]

Can you put the way you feel when your in love into words?

Sure you can. Poets have been doing it for centuries.

[Vibecrewangel]

Sure you can. Poets have been doing it for centuries.

But can "you"? Just because "you" don't have the words doesn't make love any less real.

There are plenty of people who can put their drug experiences into words. Most sites call them trip reports. Shuglin even wrote books on the chemistry and effects of certain substances that he and his wife tested on themselves.

[Anonymous]

Sure you can. Poets have been doing it for centuries.

But can "you"? Just because "you" don't have the words doesn't make love any less real.

Sure I can. I have plenty of words for love, and plenty of words that can make love less real.


I swear, though, if your next post starts with "but can 'I'?", that's it.

[Vibecrewangel]

No, I can too...though love is nothing I choose to describe.
And, as I am sure you (Dr. Boogie) realized...the you in " " was meant to describe a generic you...... You (Dr. Boogie) I assumed could put it into words. :P
But to those who have never felt it themselves the descriptions are still essentially meaningless.
And to those who have felt it but can't put it in to words, it is still very real.

[Protoclown]

Yes, but i remember the experience. I just can't put it into words. Can you put the way you feel when your in love into words? It is very similar.

Helm is a robot and ROBOTS DON'T LOVE OKAY SMART GUY??? SHEESH :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

[Big McLargehuge]

Can you put the way you feel when your in love into words?

Sure you can. Poets have been doing it for centuries.

But those descriptions are meaningless unless you have experienced love. Like when i say that it was like awakining to a higher conciousness, that means nothing to you but it is a perfect description to some one who has experienced it.

[Anonymous]

Descriptions can have meanings for those kinds of things. As you both have said, the full experience can't be conveyed through words alone, but after reading that description and experiencing the sensation for yourself, you might subconsciously bring the description to mind and think that it is indeed the perfect way to describe it because you can't, and the existing description is good enough for you.

[Helm]

Any description is inherently limited because language is not perfect means of communication. Naturally aspects of what one is trying to communicate will be lost, according to his descriptive ability, but ultimately also because the medium is flawed itself.

Love is a bad example. Love, as the highly romanticised magical fluffy meaning-of-life concept, is a very misleading and ultimately fabricated helpful lie, and I for one do not care to perpetuate it by using it, even as an example. I will not validate this concept in any way. I will instead hold my breath for a full minute until I am all red in the face and have killed proportionally enough brain cells as I would have if I had come to a significant orgasm.

Now let's just say you said 'lust' (or something equally biological) instead so I can make my point. So if somebody is describing lust, he can try to do it using words, which are based on various logical constructions which of course are based on empyrical knowledge, originally. (don't make me elaborate on this, it is boring) He might do a good job of describing lust or not, and yes, if the other person hasn't felt it, it might not mean anything even if he does a good job. But if you're describing something like drug use, you have another problem in that this drug use is altering the foundations of language, which are teh logic. You can not trust sensory perception to be according to any logical assumption, and so you are left with trying to describe A by using A as means of description. Bummer.

Any level of logical description is to a degree flawed, but when describing so fundamentally altering experiences as drug use, you literally have no words to use. And so as an object of philosophical discussion, drugs are a no no.

[Vibecrewangel]

Helm -

Do you feel the same way about meditation?
Or fasting?
Or practicing martial arts blindfolded?
Hypnosis?
Talking with a therapist?
Dreaming?

All of these "alter your perceptions" in much the same way as drugs.

Try to think of them as filters.
MDMA can be a filter to help block the emotional stress attached to a traumatic event making it easier to think or talk about. Without the emotional stress blocking rational thought it can be easier to work through the event as opposed to having emotions cloud you.
(I can also argue the other side, but for the sake of this one I'll stay "pro-drug")

In the case of shrooms, (for most people) you tend to be filtered in such a way that you are able to look at your actions as if they were the actions of others and judge them in that way.
In my case for example I was able to notice that the things I REALLY disliked in other people were things I disliked in myself even if I often felt justified in my actions. (Or was remarkably unaware of them.....) On shrooms that feeling of entitlement or justification wasn't there and I was able to look at each set of circumstances without "myself" getting in the way.
It gave me the chance to change my own behaviors that were inappropriate or that I found offensive in others. And it also gave me the ability to look at other people and judge their actions more clearly on the circumstances and less on the fact that I disliked the behavior.
This is what I took away from the trip. After being very upset and not liking myself very much for the duration of it.

What makes these any different then using caffeine or ritalin(sp) to help you focus?


I am so not a "party" drug user.......

[Big McLargehuge]

Love is a bad example. Love, as the highly romanticised magical fluffy meaning-of-life concept, is a very misleading and ultimately fabricated helpful lie, and I for one do not care to perpetuate it by using it, even as an example. I will not validate this concept in any way. I will instead hold my breath for a full minute until I am all red in the face and have killed proportionally enough brain cells as I would have if I had come to a significant orgasm.

Now let's just say you said 'lust' (or something equally biological) instead so I can make my point. .


When i say "love" i mean "Biological attraction" it is a very real feeling and while lust is rooted in our desire to procreate, "love" is a way to stay healthy. It can reduce stress, help with child rearing, and if you go back far enough pair bonding was a good way to stay alive.

And Vibe, Party drug use is stupid, when i use drugs it is for my emotional, phycological, and spiritual elightnment. So i can respect you for not doing the party drug scene.

[Vibecrewangel]

Thanks. You too.

Psychonauts

[Anonymous]

I couldn't stop my thoughts from flowing, and i felt tortured by what felt like demons in my mind.

You just felt them or did you see demons too

[Vibecrewangel]

You just felt them or did you see demons too

That would be DMT........ :chatter

[Anonymous]

That would be DMT........

I don't know what DMT is but I'll assume it's a drug.
Does this mean you've seen demons Vibe?

[Sethomas]

You took a trip
And Climbed a tree
at Robert Sledge's party
And there you stayed
'till morning came
You were not the same after that

You gave your life
to Jesus Christ
and after all your friends went home
you came down and looked around
and you were not the same after that

[mew barios]

you druggies sure do like your drugs.

[Big McLargehuge]

You just felt them or did you see demons too
I felt them and sometimes heard them. I realized that the demons were my own mind. The biggest thing was whenever i closed my eyes to sleep, my mind would go haywire, screaming and humming and singing. they didn't want me to sleep. They wanted me to stay up and face them.

[Sethomas]

Nah, they just wanted you to party with them. :(

I've just done pot and the legal stuff, but drinking absinth made me pull my wang out in a hostel.

[Protoclown]

USERS ARE LOSERS :rolleyes

[Vibecrewangel]

Doopa -

Nope. Haven't done DMT. Not sure if I want too. It is too unpredictable. At least that is what my research leads me to believe and I am not ready for that yet. Maybe not ever.

But, from all reports I can find DMT makes you see demons / aliens / angels.....and they seem to lead you into self destructive places.
It's an ethobotanical (natural plant substance) and most of the native cultures who use it do so only under very controlled conditions so that they don't get led astray by the (insert mystical being here).

[Anonymous]

Why do they think it does that? I mean.. chemically/brain
What do these things look like? Do they actually talk?

and they seem to lead you into self destructive places
do you mean that poetically or literally



:squigly hi mew

[Vibecrewangel]

Quite literally.

Walk of cliffs or ontp freeways. Drinking or eating things under the sink. Making you think the people with you are your enemies instead of friends. Making you feel that you are spiritually below the other people around you and that you have to take more to come up to their level.

I look up somereports and get descriptions for you. I'll also look for the "how the chemical works" info.

Most of the native cultures tend to belive that the demon is the spirit of the plant.

[Dole]

I had DMT. Everything turned upside down, I couldnt move but felt physically amazing, and then after 15 minutes it stopped abruptly I felt absolutely normal and went home and made dinner. THE END :posh

[Vibecrewangel]

See.....unpredictable.
Dole......you intrigue me. :D

Though I do remember reading that some people are not effected much at all by it. Something about not having enough of the enzyme necessary to process it.

I have the reverse problem with DXM. I use about 1/3 the minimum dose to get the same effects as a 2nd plateau dose of DXM. It's because DXM works on some of the same receptors as codeine and I am deathly allergic to codeine. So...I get the increased effect.

[Vibecrewangel]

These are from Dr. Shulgin's book. His own experiences. Each quote is from a different doseage and methos of intake.

All the trips last from 5 to 15 min max, but can and often do feel like hours, days, years even centuries.

"I began to see patterns on the wall that were continuously moving. They were transparent, and were not colored. After a short period these patterns became the heads of animals, a fox, a snake, a dragon. Then kaleidoscopic images appeared to me in my inner eye, fantastically beautiful and colored."

"I don't like this feeling -- I am not myself. I saw such strange dreams a while ago. Strange creatures, dwarfs or something; they were black and moved about. Now I feel as if I am not alive. My left hand is numb. As if my heart would not beat, as if I had no body, no nothing. All I feel are my left hand and stomach. I don't like to be without thoughts."

"We did it together. Swift entry -- head overwhelmed -- elaborate and exotic. Slightly threatening patterns -- no insight -- slight sense of cruelty and sharpness between us, but enjoying. His face, as before with MDA, demonic but pleasantly so. He said he saw my face as a mask. He asked me to let him see my teeth. I laughed -- aware that laughter slightly not-funny. Heavy, massive intoxication. Time extension extraordinary. What seemed like 2 hrs was about 30 minutes."

"As I exhaled I became terribly afraid, my heart very rapid and strong, palms sweating. A terrible sense of dread and doom filled me -- I knew what was happening, I knew I couldn't stop it, but it was so devastating; I was being destroyed -- all that was familiar, all reference points, all identity -- all viciously shattered in a few seconds. I couldn't even mourn the loss -- there was no one left to do the mourning. Up, up, out, out, eyes closed, I am at the speed of light, expanding, expanding, expanding, faster and faster until I have become so large that I no longer exist -- my speed is so great that everything has come to a stop -- here I gaze upon the entire universe."

These next ones all come from trip reports.

"So for what seemed like centuries I played with the trippy freaky elves and they kept bringing me into atrium after atrium in the antics annex, and all I could do was wonder when we would get to their front door. As far as I know, we never did. Instead they said many things, though I can't say they used what we would call a voice to accomplish this communication. I remember only parts of this. At first they said, 'Build this', indicating hyperspace. Later they amended this by saying, 'Build it. He will come.' from the movie Field of Dreams. Very funny. "

"There were two people a man and a women or a girl and a boy. They appeared to me like simple balloon computer generated images. As soon as I stepped in the room, they glided up to me and spoke directly to me. They kept saying welcome back and words like: the big winner, he has returned, welcome to the end and the beginning, you are The One! As I looked around the room I felt the sense of some huge celebration upon my entry to this place. Bells were ringing, lights flashing fear began to rise in me as I felt the deep change in my world. The sprites begin to lead me around the room showing me how all my life they had been preparing me for this return. I was shown dozen of experiences simultaneously in my life, that had lead up to and been clues to this moment. I was shown in a flood and a onslaught of images, thoughts, situations, raw feelings that everything had been building to this moment. That this moment had been planned. "

"It moved in rhythmic spasms like some demonic toy; and always there was its voice - a steely, shrill monotony that put an end to hope.... The chilling thing was that I knew what it was saying! It told me that I was a wretched, pulpy, flaccid thing; a squishy-squashy worm. I was a thing of soft entrails and slimy fluids and was abhorrent to the calcified God. "

"Twisting, churning; the world burst into multi-colored energy balls and entities. They formed a ball of blue stonish grey, and grabbed at me but as friends, as the same as me. Eventually they slipped away, and I was left with a new type of creature, that had a mostly black face but with colorful features. I felt pokes and tugs but it was not at all bad; they seemed as if they were me, and I knew the goodness of everything; goodness was this space. The music was happy music, and enhanced the experience dramatically."

"Looked into his eyes.

Sitting regally there like a warlock - like a tall thin longhaired Buddha - between the window of the room and me, He was the Window and the Window was equal to itself. A removed part of the wall, to let the light shine through. Colours of RED and BLUE were all over the room. He had on a red shirt and blue pants but the red and blue were coming from somewhere else, they were from him and not his clothes.

On the checkerboarded bed, which had now become full of chess pieces from another world that moved in very non-euclidean ways, which were used to play entirely different games...he was balanced there, in a lotus-like pose, a triangular shape with every surface of his face and arms and body a triangle-shaped plate, and each plate hinged to the others in perfect angular construction...

And he was laughing.

Laughing the laughter only laughed by someone sharing Something Special with someone else that has never known that 'special', and I heard it low, deep, and full of Trickster-Hero, and himself.

And I could feel the transmitted sense of power from him. Not aimed at me, Aimed FROM me, or bounced off of me, in a sense, to the rest of the world...coming from a source behind him. Or something to that effect. Some aura-field that was transmitted in the course of normal thinking, but that was in this state very visible.

Thus it was that a huge - an ENORMOUS - chunk of my peculiar sexual nature was defined. That day, In that room, in that collection of seconds which were also miles down which I was walking, running, falling, helplessly sliding, sucked to it and to him or rather to my own perception of him...drawn forever and ever forevermore to what *A* represented to me:

POWER.

Beyond the good and evil, and beyond love or hate, always power: it is the deciding factor of every occurrence. The one who has power gains more and more. The one who loses power keeps less and less.

And yet, one can have power and then lose it, or have no power and come to gain it. The secret of power was in those eyes, that laugh, the tsunami wave of hair falling down his shoulders: I could hear it falling liquid-like and yet hard as wire, soft as thought.

The secret of his power at that moment was his detachment from the one who was watching him. It was not the sort of uncaring which is also unfeeling and thus cold. It was the sort of uncaring which elevates one who is detached to a higher level than attained by one who would Be Concerned With People Liking You. Sexually or otherwise...or both.

That detachment seems to be one of the most sexually attractive qualities one can have, no matter how ugly or beautiful the physical appearance. Desire, and you become undesired. A paradox: like 'Those who know don't tell, those who tell don't know.' For an empty second I knew of a rage in me at this paradoxical catch-22 that I dared not acknowledge. "

[Bennett]

Vibe-

That book sounds really interesting, what is the full name?

I myself have never had any pure hallucinagenic (sp?) experiences... only a slight one when I took too much of something that was apparently laced with something.

[Vibecrewangel]

He wrote 2 and is working on #3

PiHKAL and TiHKAL

The only time I had anything even close was when we got some E that was cut with something that didn't show when we tested it. 2CT7 or 2CI is our best guess.

I did hoever see trees grow up out of the livingroom floor. My feet were coverd in this amazing green and pink neon geometric pattern. The backyard became a jungle with little glowing eyes peering out of it at me.

One of the most amazing trips of my life.

[Bennett]

yeah, that's what happened to me, too. It wouldn't have been so bad or even noticable but I took more that I should have, and the people I was with forced me to drive home... it was pretty fucked up driving towards an intersection and for a split second I thought the red light was a railroad crossing and the two street lights on opposite sides of the road were two trains about to collide head on... but I was able to rationalize and realize what was going on in my/ with my head.

[Big McLargehuge]

One time i made the misteak of taking DXM after i had taken Benadryl. I couldn't move for 3 hours but it felt like days. For what felt like 6 or 7 hours i watched two ants battle on the ceiling. They kept trying to push eachother into a fourescent light on my ceiling.

[Protoclown]

Anyway, you don't have to have experienced love to know what it feels like SO THERE.

[Big McLargehuge]

:(

[mew barios]

if only i had the skills and natural talent required to eat a piece of paper with some crap onnit, then i too could be a philosophical dynamo :O

[Vibecrewangel]

LOL Mew!

I don't think that drugs make me (or anyone else) any more philosophical then they already are. Just opens your mind to other possibilities.

[Anonymous]

Yes, drugs don't make you more philosophical, they just increase your desire to talk about philosophy.

[kellychaos]

Helm,

Just for the sake of argument, divide up raw perception and whatever filters our subjective reality (Re: Empirical Experience Similiar to Schopenhauer Theory, I guess). Could it be possible that, even though our perceptions may skewed at the time, that one can return back to retrieve from the "memory registers" (if you will) when one is of a more sober mind and describe what they experienced more lucidly than when under the influence of said drug? In other words, the "registers" contain a clear record of what you experienced at THAT time and one is able to look at it in an almost objective manner. Our language is limited to be sure but isn't it a bit like having a favorite book, work of art or piece of music at your disposal. I have yet to see too many reviews of the aforementioned that do them justice but I can always go to the museum, play a CD, ect.

[Vibecrewangel]

Yes, drugs don't make you more philosophical, they just increase your desire to talk about philosophy.

For the most part yeah.

[kahljorn]

Drugs are fun, now all you have to do is Datura and you'll be all set!

And as for DXM, I don't think you took enough if you thought shrooms were better. The benadryl experience you had would be similar to a good dxm trip..

DMT is nice too, you can order pure DMT along with pure 5meoAMT and be set for a lifetime supply.

Personally I have 25 grams of pure God in an electric static bag right now and I'm trying to sell it to stupid druggies who have nothing better to spend their money on.

[Vibecrewangel]

AMT....blech

[Big McLargehuge]

I took 400 mg of DXM

[Vibecrewangel]

That is 1 plateau range. Course that dose made me want to die.

[kahljorn]

5meoAMT is different than AMT, that's why it is called 5meoAMT instead of AMT.

[Vibecrewangel]

Yeah I didn't get a chance to lay my hands on that one

I have had 5meoDIPT, AMT, 2CI and DPT

But repeat AMT - blech