Just what we need, more government control

[Immortal Goat]

The government is starting to really piss me off. Today, I walk into my school cafeteria expecting to get some food and a bottle of pop. Normal teenager lunch, wouldn't you say? Well, I go in and the lunch ladies tell me that the pop machines are shut down until one o-clock. The reason? The government, in all it's infinite wisdom, seems to think that teenagers are drinking too much pop and are therefor unhealthy.

Now, I have no problems with the government wanting people to be healthy, but to actually control what we can drink and when is rediculous. If they REALLY wanted us to be healthier, then they would get rid of the actual lunches sold and only give us salads or some other rabbit-food shit like that.

Now, I know that there are simple ways around this predicament in my school, but that isn't the point. The point is that the government shouldn't have this kind of control over my efveryday life. Our government is supposed to be BY the people and FOR the people, not by BUSH and for NO ONE.

[Pee Wee Herman]

Until people are smart enough to understand basic nutrition, this kind of control is necessary to prevent 90% of the population from having heart attacks before they're 40. Right now, the average American has a very minimal understanding of nutrition.

I consider my knowledge of nutrition to be above average, but I don't claim to be even close to being an expert.

[Gurlugon]

Just buy this "pop" thing at your local grocery store and bring it in for lunch.

[Immortal Goat]

Why is it necessary? Why should the government be able to control every facet of our lives? The people of America have the right to eat shit and drink piss, if they so choose, and toe government shouldn't be able to tell them otherwise. If the government really gave a fuck about our nutrition, then they would have shut McDonalds down, but they didn't, they shut down a few measly pop machines. Nice to see my tax dollars are being used for the right things.

[Pee Wee Herman]

I do agree that unhealthy fast food restaurants need to either drastically change, by cutting all seriously unhealthy food from their menu, like big macs, or that the government should shut them down or fine them in some way.

I favour either changing the menu, or shutting down the fast food restaurants.

[Drew Katsikas]

No offense, but unless you're at a private school, your argument is worthless. You are presumably in a public school, meaning you are utilizing a public office. Here, you are subject to their laws. Just like you can't eat in a library, you can't drink soda in school.

[Immortal Goat]

First of all, I DO go to a private school, and that is what is pissing me off the most.

And second, why is it the government's decision what can and cannot be consumed by teenagers? What is happening now is just the first stage of what I believe will be an ongoing trend. If the government isn't stopped now, then they WILL shut down all fast food restaurants and even require ID to sell pop to people under 18. Do you really want to live in that kind of world?

[The One and Only...]

I think I can drink soda at my school.

If people want to die by eating fast food all the time, it is solely on them. Makes a good case against socializing health care, as well.

[Drew Katsikas]

First of all, I DO go to a private school, and that is what is pissing me off the most.

And second, why is it the government's decision what can and cannot be consumed by teenagers? What is happening now is just the first stage of what I believe will be an ongoing trend. If the government isn't stopped now, then they WILL shut down all fast food restaurants and even require ID to sell pop to people under 18. Do you really want to live in that kind of world?

Yeah, that is lame. I think it's more of a pressure by the gov't, as it happens at my school, too. It may be law. However, in public schools, you are reaping the benefits of their public service, so you live under their laws. Much different from closing down McDonalds.

[Pee Wee Herman]

Try to look at it from the other side.

Do you want to live in a world where 90% of americans are morbidly obese? If Americans continue to eat the way the do, it will
happen someday, and it won't be a pretty sight.

Or... Do you want to live in a world where obesity is rapidly declining? Besides, there will be fewer fat chicks and more thin, hot ones.

This is also a health care issue. Can you possibly imagine the burden and cost to the publicly funded health care system if the vast majority of people were morbidly obese? For you Americanos with private health care, think about how much money you would save on health insurance if you weren't a huge fat fuck.

[The One and Only...]

We're all aware of that. But shouldn't it be my choice?

How long before the hard-determinist enters this thread?

[Drew Katsikas]

Honestly, I don't think it's that bad of an idea, come to think about it. I know if all our snack machines were open we'd have a school full of very unhealthy people, wether that means obese or lacking any sort of nutrition. It's also the school's soda machines, they have the right to close down the machines. Talk to your principal, I'm sure he/she wasn't reluctant in giving into the gov't's wish.

Also, the government is probably giving you guys breaks on school food. That's their service, and it's kind of a rub back vice versa thing.

[Immortal Goat]

Still it isn't the government's position to tell us what we can and can't eat. I don't think that government funded health programs are all that good, anyway. It is up to the people to decide how they want to live. If they eat too many Royale's w/ cheese, then that is their problem, not mine. I am not morbidly obese, and I am not in any danger of becoming so. Why should I have to pay for their health care and then suffer because they can't stop drinking pop and getting fat?

[Big Papa Goat]

And second, why is it the government's decision what can and cannot be consumed by teenagers? What is happening now is just the first stage of what I believe will be an ongoing trend. If the government isn't stopped now, then they WILL shut down all fast food restaurants and even require ID to sell pop to people under 18. Do you really want to live in that kind of world?

:lol

[Pee Wee Herman]

I do agree that it should be a matter of choice, but that doesn't seem to be making everyone a health nut.

As I said earlier, the general public is not educated or informed about proper nutrition. Therefore, they are not making an informed decision about their eating habits. The government can either make a serious attempt to educate people by making nutrition classes mandatory in school, or by banning unhealthy food at schools and possibly shutting down fast food restaurants. If the government removes access to unhealthy food at any venue, they should replace it with at least several healthy alternatives.

Simply put, the public is nowhere near knowledgeable enough about nutrition, therefore they do not know what the fuck they are doing, therefor they will make an uninformed choice.

[Drew Katsikas]

Still it isn't the government's position to tell us what we can and can't eat. I don't think that government funded health programs are all that good, anyway. It is up to the people to decide how they want to live. If they eat too many Royale's w/ cheese, then that is their problem, not mine. I am not morbidly obese, and I am not in any danger of becoming so. Why should I have to pay for their health care and then suffer because they can't stop drinking pop and getting fat?

If that scares you, paying their healthcare, then teaching kids good eating habits in school would work, and we wouldn't be the fattest fucking country in the world.

[Pee Wee Herman]

Still it isn't the government's position to tell us what we can and can't eat. I don't think that government funded health programs are all that good, anyway. It is up to the people to decide how they want to live. If they eat too many Royale's w/ cheese, then that is their problem, not mine. I am not morbidly obese, and I am not in any danger of becoming so. Why should I have to pay for their health care and then suffer because they can't stop drinking pop and getting fat?
Banning unhealthy food is an excellent way to reduce public health care costs, therefore you will be paying a lot less to keep these fat fucks alive.

[Big Papa Goat]

Hitler had the same idea about smoking :rolleyes

[Pee Wee Herman]

*sigh* Hitler's not the only person in my avatar, jeez.

Besides, smoking is bad.

[Perndog]

If people really want to be healthy they will do their homework, educate themselves, and do it. If they are unhealthy and/or obese, it is their own damn fault, no matter what.

Re: uninformed choices. They can vote for whoever they want, right? Are most voters sufficiently informed? No. But they can still do it. So let them eat what they want, too.

Re: "the fattest fucking country in the [world]" The fact that a lot of people in America are fat sure as hell shouldn't mean that everyone's lifestyles are restricted. I don't know about you, but my personal identity isn't affected by the average weight of the population of this country. I don't care if 90% of Americans end up morbidly obese; why the fuck would that be the problem of the rest of us? I would appreciate it if there were more fat chicks so I could pick out the ones worth my attention at a glance instead of having to waste time talking to the hot airheads.

Re: public health care. This is the real problem. I don't do politics, so I can't offer an educated solution. I say privatized health care only, but in any case I do know that I'd rather pay more money for the government to maintain the fat bastards than be unable to eat freely.

[Pee Wee Herman]

You have to stop thinking only about yourself. Think about how an pandemic of morbid obesity would affect America, not just you. In my opinion, the benefits of restricting access to unhealthy food by far outweighs the benefits of letting everyone become fat fucks.

[Perndog]

Pardon me if I don't care about Joe Schmuck and his fat wife and 2.3 kids. I don't have to stop thinking only about myself. I've been doing it for quite a while now and it suits me fine. I don't plan on living in the States my whole life anyway, and if food were regulated that would just be one more reason for me to leave.

Even if I weren't being completely selfish, it's called personal freedom. The benefit of letting a person become a fat fuck is personal choice. Aside from the health care issue, how is it anyone else's business if I decide I want to be fat and die young? This is not something that is reasonable for a government based on liberty to regulate; if you care about America so much you should realize that government control over people's diets is definitely not compatible with the American dream.

[Pee Wee Herman]

I don't have "the American dream" becaue I'm not American.

[Perndog]

What I meant is that this sort of thing conflicts with the very principles of the society; it doesn't matter if you agree with them yourself. I know I don't. I was just trying to put together a selfless version of my argument.

[Pee Wee Herman]

I see your point about the conflicting with the principles of society thing, but it seems really stupid for the government to just stand by and not do anything at all while people get fatter than Rosie O'Donnel.

[Perndog]

Stupidity: the other, unspoken principle of American life. :)

[Pee Wee Herman]

Stupidity is the reason everything in America happens. it is the driving force behind America.

[Immortal Goat]

Just look at the OTHER person in your avatar.

But seriously, folks, I would like to commend Perndog here for being the only person to truly make any sense out of you folks. OAO, you kinda agree with me, but I don't like you. You folks are entitled to your opinions, sure, but I find it scary that you think that banning certain foods is the way to reach better public health. It isn't. I would rather see my tax dollars go to fund mandatory programs in schools that teach the dangers of bad foods than have those foods completely taken away.

Look at it from this standpoint. If the government were to go out tomorrow and close down all the McDonalds, Burger Kings, and whatever the fuck else is out there, then that would mean that there would be millions of people (yes, millions. those airheaded unwed teenage moms and dads gotta work somewhere) would be out of a job. That would mean that our tax dollars would be going to support them on wellfare, and that isn't something I wanna do, either. Eating what we want is an American freedom, and they may force us to take health-food classes, but they can never take away...
OUR FREEDOM!!!! :williamwallace

[Drew Katsikas]

They're not taking away the food. They just don't supply it to you. Christ. Fucking buy it at a supermarket, they won't give you shit for that, and they never will. They don't wish to be the merchants of soda during the given hours becuase they find it unhealthy. If you don't like it, bring a soda.

[Big Papa Goat]

Should I have the right to sell E coli ridden beef?
I could save a lot of money by not using methods of slaughtering and packaging that are less sanitary than most, and pass the savings on to the consumer. Other companies can sell their beef for more and advertise that they use safer methods, and the American people can make their decisions based on the balance of risk and benefit.

[Immortal Goat]

Selling e-coli ridden beef and selling pop are two completely different things. And yes, I know I can buy the stuff in stores. That is not my point. My point is that the government should not be able to regulate this kind of stuff. That is what is worrying me. I could care less whether or not the pop machines work, but the fact that the government is regulating it is what disturbs me.

[Perndog]

Actually, banning pop machines in school didn't bother me, it was the remarks I noticed saying we should close fast food restaurants and all that fun stuff that I was replying to. As a minor you are not entitled with nearly the same liberties as adults are, and the government has *always* set down special rules for minors. Everyone (except those unlucky bastards who die really young) grows up eventually, so you only get the shaft temporarily, so it's okay. It's in the same league as legal smoking, drinking, and fucking ages. Not that I think it's good or necessary to fuck with kids' diets--that's a job for parents--but I don't have a problem with it.

Of course, maybe that's because I'm not one of you anymore and I'm still young enough to be happy about my new privileges. :)

[Pee Wee Herman]

If the issue of personal choice is so fundamental to American society, then how come the government sees fit to illegalize things that are relatively harmless? I'm talking about things like marijuana, gay marriage, and polygamy, to name a few. You claim that people should have the right to choose to be a fat fuck. If that's true, then they should have the right to choose a whole bunch of other stuff too. If the government can control things, then how come they can't control what you eat?

Don't turn this into a debate about whether the government should or shouldn't legalize marijuana, gay marriage, polygamy, or whatever. Let's not go totally off topic here.

[Perndog]

Good old fashioned Christian morals. The other addendum to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is "...as long as it's not a sin." Gluttony is one of those sins that's kind of faded in importance, while fornication is definitely still a big one and any "good citizen" will tell you it's morally wrong to use drugs.

[Vibecrewangel]

Well then lord knows, I'm not a "good citizen"

[Pee Wee Herman]

Good old fashioned Christian morals. The other addendum to "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" is "...as long as it's not a sin." Gluttony is one of those sins that's kind of faded in importance, while fornication is definitely still a big one and any "good citizen" will tell you it's morally wrong to use drugs.
If the government thinks it's morally wrong to use drugs, then how come alcohol, cigarettes, aspirin, and all prescription drugs are legal?

The government shouldn't make laws just because of their "good old fashioned Christian morals" because of a little thing called "separation of church and state." Laws should be based on facts and stuff, not "good old fashioned Christian morals."

[Perndog]

I agree. I'm just telling you how things *do* work, regardless of how they *should*.

Smoking, drinking, and prescription drugs are legal because:

1) Smoking wasn't considered harmful for an awfully long time so why would it be morally wrong? They don't apply morals ex post facto, they stick with tradition. And tradition says smoking is fine.

2) Jesus drank wine and so did an awful lot of good Christians back in the day. Therefore, alcohol is okay. Holy Communion, anyone?

3) Prescription drugs are helpful. The Bible never said there was anything wrong with medicine.

It's not so much that the religion is specifically anti-drug, it's that mind-altering drugs have been seen as morally wrong over the centuries in Western culture and have had much more of a stigma than the next closest thing, alcohol. Probably because most drug addicts in history were serious fuckups in one way or another, even if they happened to be some of the best writers/philosophers/whatever.

[Pee Wee Herman]

Now that's something we can agree on.