View Full Version : Draft Reinstatment
kahljorn
Feb 21st, 2004, 01:43 AM
I'm probably stupid for posting this and I'm sure somebody else has already gotten to it... but just in case:
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http://www.vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/105146.php
US Preparing for Military Draft in Spring 2005
by Adam Stutz • Wednesday January 28, 2004 at 09:50 AM
The current agenda of the US federal government is to reinstate the draft in order to staff up for a protracted war on "terrorism." Pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills S 89 and HR 163) would time the program so the draft could begin at early as Spring 2005 -- conveniently just after the 2004 presidential election!
Reinstatement of the draft
Dear Friends and Family,
I urge you to read the article below on the current agenda of the federal government to reinstate the draft in order to staff up for a protracted war on "terrorism."
Pending legislation in the House and Senate (twin bills S 89 and HR 163) would time the program so the draft could begin at early as Spring 2005 -- conveniently just after the 2004 presidential election! But the administration is quietly trying to get these bills passed NOW, so our action is needed immediately. Details and links follow.
If voters who currently support U.S. aggression abroad were confronted with the possibility that their own children or grandchildren might not have a say about whether to fight, many of these same voters might have a change of mind. (Not that it should make a difference, but this plan would among other things eliminate higher education as a shelter and would not exclude women -- and Canada is no longer an option.)
Please send this on to all the parents and teachers you know, and all the aunts and uncles, grandparents, godparents.... And let your children know -- it's their future, and they can be a powerful voice for change! Please also write to your representatives to ask them why they aren't telling their constituents about these bills -- and write to newspapers and other media outlets to ask them why they're not covering this important story.
The Draft*
$28 million has been added to the 2004 Selective Service System (SSS) budget to prepare for a military draft that could start as early as June 15, 2005. SSS must report to Bush on March 31, 2005 that the system, which has lain dormant for decades, is ready for activation. Please see website: http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html to view the SSS Annual Performance Plan - Fiscal Year 2004.
The Pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide.. Though this is an unpopular election year topic, military experts and influential members of Congress are suggesting that if Rumsfeld's prediction of a "long, hard slog" in Iraq and Afghanistan [and a permanent state of war on "terrorism"] proves accurate, the U.S. may have no choice but to draft.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5146.htm
Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and H.R. 163 forward this year, entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the Committee on Armed Services.
Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the US signed a "Smart Border Declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, John Manley, and US Homeland Security Director, Gov. Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their cur-rent semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
*This article by Adam Stutz is from the "What's Hot Off the Press" column of the newsletter of Project Censored, a media research group at Sonoma State University that tracks the news published in independent journals and newsletters. From these, Project Censored compiles an annual list (more than 20 years running) of 25 news stories of social significance that have been overlooked, under-reported, or self-censored by the country's major national news media. The mission of Project Censored is "to educate people about the role of independent journalism in a democratic society and to tell The News That Didn't Make the News and why."
***also there's a large chance it's all bullshit.
Thank God I'm well on my way through a sex change.
El Blanco
Feb 21st, 2004, 10:22 AM
This gets proposed every session of Congress. There is no way in hell any congressman is going on the record as in favor of this.
There are a lot of bills that propose some way off mainstream idea that always float around but never go anywhere( legalize pot, prostitution, NHC, lower the drinking age etc etc). And your source is a little more than suspect.
ranxer
Feb 21st, 2004, 12:51 PM
prediction: if bush steals the presidency again i expect to see major pressure on passing of the draft or some kind of new 'incentives' for military enslavements. (like more criminals being given the choice of military vs. prison which already happens daily)
of course private armies as a growing industry may reduce the need for this.
AChimp
Feb 21st, 2004, 01:09 PM
LAISSEZ FAIRE ARMIES!
El Blanco
Feb 21st, 2004, 02:22 PM
prediction: if bush steals the presidency again
He didn't do it the first time. Stop whining about this already.
i expect to see major pressure on passing of the draft or some kind of new 'incentives' for military enslavements. (like more criminals being given the choice of military vs. prison which already happens daily)
It isn't enslavement if you voluntarily enlist.
of course private armies as a growing industry may reduce the need for this.
Ya, well, outsourcing is the hot new trend.
GAsux
Feb 21st, 2004, 02:22 PM
This is the ideal thread for Ranxer to weigh in on. How about I post some links to Bigfoot sightings and alien babies as well?
Let me ask you this. How do you suppose all these "draftees" will be paid? Funny don't you think that Congress would simultaneously vote on several fronts to reduce troop strengths, restructure bases, and reduce spending for military compensation AND vote in favor of implementing an unjustifiable draft which would add MORE to the ranks? Hmmmmmm.
Bobo Adobo
Feb 21st, 2004, 04:41 PM
Dodging the draft will be more difficult than those from the Vietnam era remember. College and Canada will not be options. In December 2001, Canada and the US signed a "Smart Border Declaration," which could be used to keep would-be draft dodgers in. Signed by Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, John Manley, and US Homeland Security Director, Gov. Tom Ridge, the declaration involves a 30-point plan which implements, among other things, a "pre-clearance agreement" of people entering and departing each country. Reforms aimed at making the draft more equitable along gender and class lines also eliminates higher education as a shelter. Underclassmen would only be able to postpone service until the end of their cur-rent semester. Seniors would have until the end of the academic year.
Looks like I'm going to have to apply for my Canadian citizenship early. No way I'm going to fight for that zealous retard in office. Should be easy though, I got in-laws that live there.
If all fails though, I am willing to shoot my foot...seriously.
:)
Edit - I doesn't seem too impracticle that the government will pass this bill, considering that Smart Border Declaration was signed only 3 years ago.
GAsux
Feb 21st, 2004, 06:21 PM
Sure it seems practical. Im quite sure the members of Congress who will have to justify why they supported the use of force in Iraq will have no problem voicing their support for a "draft" bill because that will be super popular with their constituents right?
AChimp
Feb 21st, 2004, 06:54 PM
Although it's highly unlikely that anything like this would take place unless there was a really big or long war (IMO, the U.S. is more likely to pull out of a region before the military becomes too exhausted), I wouldn't downplay the implications.
Just because conscription is unpopular, doesn't mean that it can't happen. Conscription is ALWAYS unpopular, but that hasn't stopped it in the past now, has it? Canada had to resort to conscription in both World Wars, but fortunately both of them ended a few months later and relatively few conscripted troops saw action.
GAsux
Feb 21st, 2004, 07:50 PM
Chimp,
Of course you're right. And again as you alluded to, I think most would agree that the circumstances were quite different. The "anti-draft" movement so to speak has surfaced at virtually every single military conflict since Vietnam, regardless of scale.
In order to implement a draft, we'd have to see a required moblization to a degree we have not seen in 30+ years. Short of a very, very large scale conflict, there will be no need.
Again, what's happening within the armed forces as we speak is the exact OPPOSITE of what's being disucussed here. If the government were in fact planning to implement such nonsense as early as next Spring, I'm positive that the things that are happening now would not be happening.
Bobo Adobo
Feb 21st, 2004, 08:55 PM
Speaking from my own experince I think the Army is really hurting for recruits. I'm about three years out of high school and recruiters call me about 2-3 times a year ever since i graduated. Every time I tell them the same thing, "not interested". Most of my older relatives tell me they called them after and during there senior year, and thats all.
But my most recent experience was sorta odd. A recruiter calls me and I tell him that Im not interested. But then he continues to talk to me like Im his friend, asking question about college, what I've been up to and ending every sentence with "man". I eventually hung up on him when he started to give me the whole "pay for college" shpiel. He tried calling back, but I have caller ID so I didn't answer(shouldn't have in the first place).
After a few hours later he actually called me from his fucking cell phone! When I answered he nerve to ask me if I hung up on him. So I just said "Not interested" and hung up again, and he hasn't called back since.
So if the Armys going through all the trouble of hiring drug dealers, and con-artists to do there recruiting, is doesn't seem like there too far away from drafting.
Perndog
Feb 21st, 2004, 10:42 PM
They may be hurting for recruits, but that's only because they expect to keep a dozen times more troops active than they really need.
I doubt there will be a draft before there's a declared war on a particular nation. But if my number comes up before I move to Europe and they make conscientious objectors (read: good liars) take non-combat roles, I'm enrolling in OCS.
AChimp
Feb 22nd, 2004, 11:54 AM
The recruiters down there actually harass people? Damn... the army recruiters here just set up little booths with a TV and stand around for a few hours and say hello to people as they walk by. Parents with small children stop and let their kids wave at the soldiers.
Sure, they'll still lie through their teeth and make the military sound like the best thing that'll ever happen to you (I think it's mostly to convince themselves), but they don't leave the table, and they never bother you.
CastroMotorOil
Feb 22nd, 2004, 01:43 PM
I've never been called once by a recuiter in my life, only thing I've ever done military related was turn in my draft registration.
AChimp
Feb 22nd, 2004, 01:52 PM
Well, see, they already know that they've got you. :P
kahljorn
Feb 22nd, 2004, 06:21 PM
"Looks like I'm going to have to apply for my Canadian citizenship early. No way I'm going to fight for that zealous retard in office."
They are passing some kind of treaty type thing where canada will kick all the americans out of Canada.
Perndog
Feb 22nd, 2004, 07:06 PM
That's why he said he'd do it early. If he's becoming a Canadian citizen before the draft is instituted, they can't kick him out.
Emu
Feb 22nd, 2004, 07:56 PM
Why would they even reinstate the draft anyway? Isn't the "war" over?
Bobo Adobo
Feb 22nd, 2004, 08:03 PM
Not really, more people are dying after the invation of Iraq then during the actual war. Plus the whole "War on Terror"bullshit is probably going to spread to Africa and North Korea if Bush gets re-elected.
Emu
Feb 22nd, 2004, 08:04 PM
North Korea? We won't attack them til we think they have nukes. Even though they do, we have to think they have them.
Bobo Adobo
Feb 22nd, 2004, 08:12 PM
Yeah that seems to be the thing now a days. We have to attack the people who might have WMDs. But the country that admits to having the ability to make them, along with taunting other counties, doesn't concern us.
There honest and honesty goes along way in todays world, even if you have thermo-nucular weapons. :/
El Blanco
Feb 22nd, 2004, 08:46 PM
Plus the whole "War on Terror"bullshit is probably going to spread to Africa and North Korea if Bush gets re-elected.
Its not bullshit. And we won't go to war with NK because China will keep them in check for us.
Africa? Well, seeing as to how Bekaa Valley was a haven for terrorist training camps those years back, I wouldn't be surprised to find more activity there.
Emu
Feb 22nd, 2004, 09:53 PM
"For us?" I wasn't aware China was our overseas watchdog.
El Blanco
Feb 22nd, 2004, 10:04 PM
No, but they are the closest thing to a superpower that doesn't have the initials USA. They are also NK's main backer and trading partner. Not to mention the mutual defense pacts between them.
China also wants to be big trading buddies with us and also wants to avoid a big fucking war with us.
Now do you see why China wants to make sure North Korea doesn't piss us off?
kahljorn
Feb 23rd, 2004, 12:59 AM
Good luck on the citizen ship stuff, who kn ows what you have to do to be a citizen of canada... every idea i can think of sounds horrible. Marry a canadian!?
Perndog
Feb 23rd, 2004, 01:04 AM
Run across the border and have a baby :lol
ranxer
Feb 23rd, 2004, 10:28 AM
hey blanco, bush didn't win the election his puppeteers stole it, you get over it!
have you ever been in the military blanco?
it is true that many people realize what it really means to volunteer now.. its volunteering for enslavement.. they don't really tell you till you do something wrong or feel uncomfortable about getting a new untested vaccination that once you sign up you are considered government "property," they can massively fuck you over and you cannot sue for any damages. not only that but they lie to you at the recruiters.. many folks that go in the military are acting out of desparation.. poverty or servitude.. it's not really a choice.
and blanco most folks that sign up usually think they will be fighting for democracy or a reasonable government policy, when they find out it aint so they realize thier mistake but, hah, there's no turning back. if they gave you a choice after you signed up i'd agree with you that it wasnt enslavement. one thing i know for sure, when i was in the service i felt like a slave, how about you?
ask a hundred vietnam vet volunteers if they felt like an inmate or not.
oh, and how to pay for the new draftees? hmm, maybe they'll cut more social sevices or the veterans adminstration budget again. they also have no problem dropping coverage on an injured vet after they discharge them. hah, 'disabled in the va.. um, stand in that line over there and wait.. we'll get to you sometime this year. '
Sergeant_Tibbs
Feb 23rd, 2004, 02:06 PM
Ha ha! I beat the draft by enlisting last month :(
El Blanco
Feb 23rd, 2004, 02:39 PM
hey blanco, bush didn't win the election his puppeteers stole it, you get over it!
Ya, those evil bastards like Washington and Hamilton that thought up the Constitution and put in the Electoral College.
have you ever been in the military blanco?
No, but does that mean I don't know what "volunteer" means?
it is true that many people realize what it really means to volunteer now.. its volunteering for enslavement..
Do you know the defenitions of "volunteer" and "enslavement"?
they don't really tell you till you do something wrong or feel uncomfortable about getting a new untested vaccination that once you sign up you are considered government "property," they can massively fuck you over and you cannot sue for any damages.
You know what? I knew a lot of that shit because I was smart enough to ask people already in the military.
not only that but they lie to you at the recruiters
Gee, you mean that video about the Rangers getting all the parades and shit was a selling point? Whoah, that just knocked me off my seat.
.. many folks that go in the military are acting out of desparation.. poverty or servitude.. it's not really a choice.
Yes, it is. You just said they sign up. If they are in such dire straights, are you honestly saying it is wrong for the military to offer that option?
and blanco most folks that sign up usually think they will be fighting for democracy or a reasonable government policy,
Wait, I thought they were all poor, desperate souls with no choice. What does democracy have to do with that?
when they find out it aint so they realize thier mistake but, hah, there's no turning back.
Gee, imagine that, choices having consequences.
if they gave you a choice after you signed up i'd agree with you that it wasnt enslavement.
"Uh, sir, I just found out that I might fight and die and shit. Can you let me out now?" You understadnabout the contract you sign, right?
one thing i know for sure, when i was in the service i felt like a slave, how about you?
Well, for one thing, when I mentioned I wanted to enlist, I had a ton of relatives and other people with military experience give me their personal stories and views. Oddly enough, I somehow didn't think the guy the Army paid to try and sign me up was going to be 100% objective.
But, I'm wierd like that.
ask a hundred vietnam vet volunteers if they felt like an inmate or not.
They had no idea what a military was all about?
oh, and how to pay for the new draftees? hmm, maybe they'll cut more social sevices or the veterans adminstration budget again. they also have no problem dropping coverage on an injured vet after they discharge them. hah, 'disabled in the va.. um, stand in that line over there and wait.. we'll get to you sometime this year. '
Do me a favor and point out exactly where I said I favored a concscripted military. I want to know, because I clearly mispoke in that case.
My original points were how the new draft bill would die, just like all the other ones that were brought up in every session of Congress.
GAsux
Feb 23rd, 2004, 02:39 PM
I bet the only reason you did is because you were lied to by all that is evil in this world, the recruiter, and you were probably illiterate and poverty stricken. Choosing between poverty and servitude is no real choice, after all.
I bet further that if that does not apply to you, you were likely a criminal who was given the option to either die for freedom or serve out your sentence in jail.
You poor poor bastard.
Sergeant_Tibbs
Feb 23rd, 2004, 05:32 PM
No, I knew that once I signed that piece of paper I was government property and all that crap. Also the recruiter is my brother so I've already heard all of his "lies" when he tells them to other people. And since I'm sitting here typing a reply to your post that means I can read and am therefore not illiterate. You should know too that it's illegal for a judge to not sentence you if you join the military.
El Blanco
Feb 23rd, 2004, 06:10 PM
uh, Tibbs, I think that was sarcasm.
Also, does anyone else know what the GI in GI Joe stands for?
It ain't General Infantry.
Perndog
Feb 23rd, 2004, 06:36 PM
General Issue. As in, just another inventory item.
EDIT: Yeah, Boogie's right.
Anonymous
Feb 23rd, 2004, 07:04 PM
Government issue, as in "all my equipment is government issue."
Royal Tenenbaum
Feb 23rd, 2004, 07:42 PM
If Bush wins again you all deserves this draft.
El Blanco
Feb 23rd, 2004, 07:59 PM
Ya, Boogie got the literal meaning, but it also became a slang term for the troops themselves. So, people have known for decades that if you sign on that dotted line, your ass is official US government property.
GAsux
Feb 23rd, 2004, 10:58 PM
Tibbs,
Thanks for squaring me away. I had no idea. Really.
As for me, my enslavement began after living a childhood of poverty and crime. I began smoking crack and knocking off liquor stores as a youth in order to feed myself and my family. As a result of my day job, I didn't have time to go tos chool and educate myself.
The next thing I know my parole officer is bringing by a recruiter telling me about how I'm going to be driving a Lexus and sporting a throw back 76ers jersey in a matter of months if I just sign up, plus he promised to drop all the armed robbery charges.
Next thing I know I'm sitting in the Middle East being forced to rape children, shank women, and pulvarize inncoent Iraqis. All the while I still haven't got my ride or a tight throwback jersey.
Fuck the military man. What a crock of shit. I should have stuck to selling crack.
Royal Tenenbaum
Feb 23rd, 2004, 11:34 PM
"Fuck the military man. What a crock of shit. I should have stuck to selling crack."
But, if you went to jail, you'd be being fucked up the crack.
kellychaos
Feb 25th, 2004, 04:32 PM
Ya, Boogie got the literal meaning, but it also became a slang term for the troops themselves. So, people have known for decades that if you sign on that dotted line, your ass is official US government property.
They prodded around there a bit at first but I don't think that they really wanted my ass. Then again, they DID ask if we were homosexuals during enlistment in-processing. :/
mesobe
Feb 25th, 2004, 04:41 PM
I smell an enslaught of more hippies running to Canada
kellychaos
Feb 25th, 2004, 04:45 PM
If the hippies run to Canada, then the terrorists have already won.
Bobo Adobo
Feb 25th, 2004, 05:37 PM
right... While your dukin' it out in the trenches fighting for your "democracy", I'll be smoking hash, shootin' elk, and eating french fries w/ gravy. :lol
Anonymous
Feb 25th, 2004, 06:04 PM
Depending on which region of Canada you're in, they may just be called "fries".
Bobo Adobo
Feb 25th, 2004, 06:16 PM
or frites :)
Anonymous
Feb 25th, 2004, 06:18 PM
Or chips.
AChimp
Feb 25th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Or snozelwozzers.
I could sure go for a big plate of snozelwozzers right now. :)
mesobe
Feb 25th, 2004, 07:06 PM
I believe fries with gravy and cheese is called "poutine"
Anonymous
Feb 25th, 2004, 08:07 PM
Hey chimp, let's you and me keep this fry thing going for as long as we can keep suckers posting serious responses to it.
Or potato lengths.
mesobe
Feb 25th, 2004, 08:13 PM
freedom fries :lol
out of all the things french to boycott, americans choose a food that was created in Belgium.
Big Papa Goat
Feb 26th, 2004, 01:19 AM
RUINED >:
AChimp
Feb 26th, 2004, 08:53 AM
Ruined. :(
Royal Tenenbaum
Feb 26th, 2004, 02:30 PM
"poutine is for frenchmen and europeans" - don cherry :lol
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