Iraqi Chaos

[mburbank]

Blasts Kill 125 at Iraq Shiite Shrines
AP


By TAREK AL-ISSAWI and HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writers

KARBALA, Iraq - Simultaneous explosions ripped through crowds of worshippers Tuesday at Shiite Muslim shrines in Baghdad and the holy city of Karbala, killing at least 125. It was the bloodiest day since the end of major fighting.

U.S. intelligence officials have long been concerned about the possibility of militant attacks during Ashoura. Last month, U.S. officials released what they said was a letter by Jordanian militant Abu Mousab al-Zarqawi outlining a strategy of spectacular attacks on Shiites, aimed at sparking a Sunni-Shiite civil war.

The attacks in the two cities took place nearly simultaneously as tens of thousands of Shiite pilgrims gathered for Ashoura, the holiest day in the Shiite religious calendar.





If we cannot protect Iraqis from an attack we are almost certain is coming, on a holiday we already know about at a likely target location, we are in no way in control of the country. As the occupying nation, their safety is our responsability. I'm in no way blaming us for the attack itself, but how can we claim the war is over, that we are 'winning the war on terrorism' , that things are getting better in Iraq when this happens?

If you don't get how major an event this is, imagine if 125 people had been killed at St. Patricks Cathedral in NYC during Easter or Christmas eve services.

One of Al Quaidas major goals is the destabilization of the middle east. Our goals and theirs were perfectly aligned in Iraq and whatevr we achieved by deposing Huseein, they achieved more. Terrorists can now act at will in Iraq.

There is a tipping point out there, for many Iraqis probably already reached, where the question W thinks is rhetorical, "Does anyone think Iraq is worse of with Hussein gone?" is hardly moot. If you think that question is rhetorical, ask yourself this. 125 died today. That still pales besides Husseins torture and genocide. But at what number would the scales begin to balance for you? How many people would have to die in terrorism, how much chaos, anarchy and suffering would you need to see before the scales begin to balance?

I think Iraq is on a nearly unstopable course toward a lengthy civil war. You only need to look at Africa to see what that can do.

[Zhukov]

Bring it on, you shithead.

[mesobe]

I dont see anyone is going to be able to control this at all. These "terrorists" dont even fear death, so how is the american government going to control them by force? There is enough poverty and suffering in The US that could be taking care of first (http://www.i-mockery.net/viewtopic.php?t=10290).

I really dont think that Bush really cares about controling Iraq, as long as he has control over his energy agenda.

[Zhukov]

These "terrorists" dont even fear death, so how is the american government going to control them by force?
By killing them.

Who says they don't fear death anyway?

[mesobe]

how are you gunna kill them? you dont know they are terrorists untill they blow themselves up along with hundreds of others.

They believe that they go to heaven if they die fighting the infendels so being killed aint all that bad.

[Zhukov]

Cristians are un-afraid of death!

Hundreds of others? Ten or fifteen maybe.

[mesobe]

10 or 15? the last one was about 125! not to mention all the others over the past years.

where do you get 10 or 15?

[AChimp]

You only have to kill the ones at the top. The rest of them are sheep.

[El Blanco]

You can also try and track logistics (ie supplies, planning etc).

But, the best way is with ground intel, something we are very shitty at. We got too emamoured with our technological marvels in the 80s and 90s that we fell behind on getting informants.

[mesobe]

i think its a fine line. you can try to predict who will be a terrorist but that has its obvious problems with "racial profiling" by targeting a certain demographic.

It must be fustrating though. I mean you arnt a Terrorist until you commit an act of terrorism. and in the case of Iraq, a person who becomes a terrorist is already dead (and others around him) because he blew himself up... so its not like you can arrest him or anything!

[El Blanco]

You're not trying to get Jihad Joe. Well, you are in a way, but he isn't the one you are tracking.

You have to find the financiers and the bombmakers and such. the guys too important to go suicide bombing. You can get any poor desperate fool to strap some symtex to himself and run into a shopping center. There is all that homegrown talent there. And, if you run low, just import some.

The way to prevent that from happening is to catch the recruiters and suppliers.

But, like I said, you need snitches for that, which we don't have.

[DamnthatDavid]

Do any of you understand what a jihad is?
It a religious war. All the ones who are killing themselves do so for only a few reason. the Jihad against America, the Jihad against those who are willing to work with America. (The Shiites are pushing for this) and, the fact that the attackers are not shiites.

When they die in jihad, the person shall be sent to heaven to be tended by some number of virgin girls. I don't remember the exact count.

There is no leader Chimp. Unless you count a dead "prophet", and some screwed up religious text.

[El Blanco]

Do any of you understand what a jihad is?
It a religious war.

Actually, it means something closer to "personal struggle". Its been perverted to mean Holy War.

When they die in jihad, the person shall be sent to heaven to be tended by some number of virgin girls. I don't remember the exact count.

70. But I don't see that as an incentive. A virgin can be such high maintanence.

There is no leader Chimp. Unless you count a dead "prophet", and some screwed up religious text.

There are recruiters, planners and suppliers. They count as leadership.

[mesobe]

if capturing or killing a so-called "leader" will effect the bombings in any way, it will most likely increase them. As soon as you kill Osama, he becomes a marter (spelling) and ironically immortal to all those who believe in him.

and as David said, its a religion. No one is commanding them or telling them to blow themselves up. They do it because they actually believe that they will have an eternal orgy with all those virgin chicks once they are killed fighting the west.

[Anonymous]

There is no leader Chimp. Unless you count a dead "prophet", and some screwed up religious text.

SmackthatDavid.

Not that I'm questioning your own intimate familiarity with the Koran, but come on. You didn't even know the meaning of Jihad. Are you really in a position to write off Islam like that?

[davinxtk]

Not that I'm agreeing with David, but I do disagree with AChimp. I believe that for the most part the terrorists are acting outside of any sort of central leadership. It's when there are major skirmishes between the US and insurgents that we actually have some kind of "leadership" targets.

Large parts of the problem stem not so much from straight religious doctrine as years of anti-American sentiment. We've been fucking that part of the world in its proverbial asshole for a long time, and they're reasonably sick of it.

I want a single one of you to try and tell me that if there was an occupying force in America, a good deal of our citizens wouldn't be resorting to geurilla tactics and taking matters into their own hands.